Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[DarcShriek.5829]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@"DarcShriek.5829" said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

[evilsofa.7296]

@"Dayra.7405" said:I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party.

Does Anet currently publicly flag any user for any reason? Do you really want them to start sliding down that slope? Do you really think that is the only thing that a flag would ever be developed for?

You won't be getting a "Flags for thee but not for me" policy. By demanding that other users be flagged, you are demanding to be flagged yourself., for reasons that you will, inevitably, consider to be a violation of your privacy.

[Pifil.5193]

@evilsofa.7296 said:

@"Dayra.7405" said:I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party.

Does Anet currently publicly flag any user for any reason? Do you

really

want them to start sliding down that slope? Do you

really

think that is the only thing that a flag would ever be developed for?

You won't be getting a "Flags for thee but not for me" policy. By demanding that other users be flagged, you are demanding to be flagged yourself., for reasons that you will, inevitably, consider to be a violation of your privacy.

Ironic that the OP wants ArenaNet to "violate the privacy" of DPS meter users by flagging them in game.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.

Just type "chill run" to LFG and the elitists will NEVER bother you, and if you don't well it's on you. But demanding unreasonable things and wanting "privacy"? Pfft.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I tried once to ahve a discussion about the policy and changing it, Chris Cleary came to thread, reposted the policy and ran away. That's not a discussion. There is no room to talk with devs about it. It's easier for them to ignore the problem they created.

The fact that he didn't discuss in that thread isn't the same as saying they have never discussed it. Again, from ANet's point of view, there's nothing new to talk about. In that context, engaging in conversation on the topic is perhaps less respectful, since it gives the illusion that ANet is considering a policy change.

If you want them to change their (collective) mind, come up with an innovation. Rephrasing the same points people made before, repeating cliches, or making declarative statements that indicate one isn't happy with the policy isn't going to do much at this point.

Posting arguments and suggestions didn't help either. Chris completely ignored everything being said about the issue. That is direct declaration about their lack of will to do anything about it. I kinda understand them, it's easy and cheap to ignore it.

not responding to a forum goer's post is not the same as ignoring a topic. Still, it seems that the company has settled on their stance on the matter. If someone brings up a truly new idea for consideration, which I haven't seen on these boards since the policy was established, perhaps they will reconsider. Just reposting the same points that have been posted a hundred or a thousand times by other players is not continuing to engage in discussion.

[Rauderi.8706]

@"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:Again Anet says that combat data isn’t private or personal and by directly from the client means that whenever a player does something it broadcasts it to every other player’s Client aka Gw2.exe. And yes any player can realistically figure out someone’s dps by watching the ingame UI since every mobs HP is a known value as per API you can see All health percentages and you can see what Boons a player has and when they are applied etc.

I know what P.I.I. generally means. I reject the OP's specific argument. Not a fan of meters, just trying to comprehend the twisted way in which they're considered legit.

As far as a meter being able to read what is broadcast, is it reaching into something is probably shouldn't, or is the game's combat log actually sending it to all nearby client access? Beecaause, I don't see other people's stuff unless it affects me in some way. Thus, the question.

And by non compliant means that one combat meter did things other than pull combat data from the client, it would show the User other player’s gear and traits and other non combat related data as per Anets Specifications so those players and the creator using that combat meter were banned after everyone was told it wasn’t compliant for use.

While ArcDps only pulls Combat Data and nothing else from the game client.

Apologies, I meant "non compliant" in the case of players saying "kitten you and your meters," not the meters being against the TOS. Because as far as I knew, the meters themselves worked by relaying data to a third party and bundling up for others in the same party for access.

tl;dr - What is the actual data flow for a DPS meter?

Because if it can just reach into game stats to get data a player shouldn't have, that's my concern. That falls under "provides advantage over other players" and really needs to be questioned.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:... stop generalizing people...

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:...Oh but hardcores always...

[starhunter.6015]

@Dayra.7405 said:I am in EU and the server I am playing on is in EU as well and EU just got a new privacy law that companies cannot overrule at will. So I am very much in doubt that I accepted such rules and even if I did that this is valid.

Don't forget Anet is in the USA, our laws apply here not EU's. That being said like many have stated combat data is public, it is not personal data. If you don't like it may I suggest uninstall and go play something single player ? Honestly your attitude is worse then any Raid DPS elitist I have ever seen.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Belorn.2659 said:If people who use DPS meters should get flagged, could we also flag people who get kicked out of groups? Even better, lets bring up some amazon rating system so we can all flag each other so everyone know who to exclude and who to include before they even meet. I can only see flowers and hearths from such change.

To be fair, a Commendation system of some sort would be kinda fantastic.Have a good run/relation with someone? Give 'em an upvote.Buuut, also not the best idea, since it'd be mostly Chronos and other backbone classes getting the votes, and megaguilds would insist on it and... yeah okay, not a fanatic idea, but it'd be nice to have some way of helping us identify each other by preferred play style, instead of constantly butting heads with meter/no-meter or speedrun/relaxed groups. The hostility comes from both sides, so a more codified method might be warranted.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:Again Anet says that combat data isn’t private or personal and by directly from the client means that whenever a player does something it broadcasts it to every other player’s Client aka Gw2.exe. And yes any player can realistically figure out someone’s dps by watching the ingame UI since every mobs HP is a known value as per API you can see All health percentages and you can see what Boons a player has and when they are applied etc.

I know what P.I.I. generally means. I reject the OP's specific argument. Not a fan of meters, just trying to comprehend the twisted way in which they're considered legit.

As far as a meter being able to read what is broadcast, is it reaching into something is probably shouldn't, or is the game's combat log actually sending it to all nearby client access? Beecaause, I don't see other people's stuff unless it affects me in some way. Thus, the question.

And by non compliant means that one combat meter did things other than pull combat data from the client, it would show the User other player’s gear and traits and other non combat related data as per Anets Specifications so those players and the creator using that combat meter were banned after everyone was told it wasn’t compliant for use.

While ArcDps only pulls Combat Data and nothing else from the game client.

Apologies, I meant "non compliant" in the case of players saying "kitten you and your meters," not the meters being against the TOS. Because as far as I knew, the meters themselves worked by relaying data to a third party and bundling up for others in the same party for access.

tl;dr - What is the actual data flow for a DPS meter?

Because if it can just reach into game stats to get data a player shouldn't have,

that's

my concern. That falls under "provides advantage over other players" and really needs to be questioned.

All Combat Data is generated on Anet Servers, and then pushed out to all Clients (the actual gw2.exe) and it populated into the game via the UI, all currently compliant DPS Meters and the main one ArcDps read that combat data from the Client (Gw2.exe) and parses it into a visual UI overlay, the data collected has nothing tied to your user information or account privacy etc. At least that is my understanding on how it operates for that Combat Meter.

There was BGDM (which is not compliant and users are prohibited from using) used to work by only players with it installed would send their data gathered by the program reading data from the Client(Gw2.exe) and sending it to a third party Server and then that server pushed the info to other BGDM users in the same party. BGDM would allow players to check other player’s gear, traits and other information etc and why it is not compliant and why users were banned.

ArcDps does not provide any advantage over other players in the sense that’s Anet’s policy is concerned, since all it is is parsed Combat Data which is defined by Chris Cleary

[DarcShriek.5829]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.

Just type "chill run" to LFG and the elitists will NEVER bother you, and if you don't well it's on you. But demanding unreasonable things and wanting "privacy"? Pfft.

Why do you want to hide the fact you're using a dps meter?

It could also mean a thousand other things. However, meter defenders want to go negative. That's the problem with people that use meters on other people. They are just way too negative.

The responses from DPS spies seem to be rather monochromatic. All they seem capable of doing is insulting the people that don't want them used on them in secret.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Cyberman Mastermind.6012 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Again, most people won't complain if you deviate 1% from the optimal dps for your class... Most People will complain if you deviate

GROSSLY

from the minimum average DPS that is sensible for a run. And most of the time, people will only even address the issue if the run is failing a lot, and the outlier is identified, which gets called out, or like i do, at the end of a successful run, i'll give advice to the outlier via PM. 3/5 times the person will become defensive (and by defensive i mean rude) which means i end up just blocking that person, and less tolerant of failure as well.First off, I think it's great that you send them a PM (no sarcasm here!) instead of announcing it in group chat - it shows you don't want to blame them in front of the group, but want to help.(Because we all know there are jerks out there, so even if you innocently offer a suggestion, it's possible someone else will pick it up to harass the other player.)

I'm surprised that a majority of the reactions you get are negative, to be honest. Maybe you just have bad luck with grouping and always find the jerks who don't care about trying to increase their DPS.Just to cover both sides, though, maybe your remarks, even if not intended as such, are received as hostile. It's astonishing how the same words can be taken completely different. One mans "Well, lets get to it" is anothers "You lazy kitten, why the f... are you not yet up and running, kitten you!"...(The example is hyperbole, but I'm serious about the issue itself.)

Could you give an example? I'm playing a ranger if you need a class. I'm actually afraid of posting my build now...

Regarding being tolerant of failure - understandable and quite human, but obviously a downward spiral. Being no master of Zen myself, I'll refrain from saying you should stay optimistically and always assume the best intentions in others :-)(Which one should, IMO, but I try not to throw stones unless I'm sure those "glass" walls are not in fact rubber and bouncy...)

...

To get somewhat back on topic, having some time to think about it - I actually think it would HELP if Anet built a DPS meter into the game.Equal footing for all, and they could (and should!) offer average DPS for each class/weapon combination. They already pre-built half of our skills, so lets take away the second-guessing.Toxic people are toxic - they don't need a reason, just an excuse.

I do agree that a proprietary DPS meter would be better, and who knows Arena Net could intern the guy that built ArcDPS to implement that, but on the other hand, is it worth using resources for this, what's more, then next TACO users would want that, and then GWTimers, etc.Not to mention that they kinda did add a DPS meter ingame via the training golem. Honestly they could have just taken that to the next level... But they have their priorities.It would be better if Arena Net had a better support for Addons like WoW, and many other games have, especially if they have a curated library of Addons that are "Dev approved".

On our "side-chat", it really depends, honestly. I'll usually ask their build first, then comment from that. I rarely go all out and comment on the damage straight off.There are situations i'll comment openly though... Like if a guy is consistently getting himself killed by ignoring a mechanic mid-fight, and we need to divert a player to ress him. I'm honestly not going through the motions of sending a PM mid-fight to tell him not to step on the red circles, or whatever.And honestly i'm more likely to kick a guy ignoring that kind of warning/remark than a guy doing low DPS.

If you want specifics, my personal standard, which is gleaned from experience is 10kDPS (that's 1/2 to 1/4 of all DPS benchmarks). If everyone in a group is doing 10K DPS or more, from experience it turns out to be a smooth and quick run. Less than that, it gets bumpy. Doesn't mean i'll kick anyone if they're doing 7K, just that i might nudge him a bit to improve. Now if someone is doing less damage than a support Chrono (which in my friend's circle is mostly people running Minstrels) or a Healing Power Druid, then that guy is a liability for sure.And you'd be amazed how many times that happens, people literally doing less DPS than characters that aren't really trying to do damage.

@starhunter.6015 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:I am in EU and the server I am playing on is in EU as well and EU just got a new privacy law that companies cannot overrule at will. So I am very much in doubt that I accepted such rules and even if I did that this is valid.

Don't forget Anet is in the USA, our laws apply here not EU's. That being said like many have stated combat data is public, it is not personal data. If you don't like it may I suggest uninstall and go play something single player ? Honestly your attitude is worse then any Raid DPS elitist I have ever seen.

Not correct...In the EU, EU law applies.You wanna know why they started letting us see the preview of Loot bags?Most likely because it became mandated by law in China!

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.

Just type "chill run" to LFG and the elitists will NEVER bother you, and if you don't well it's on you. But demanding unreasonable things and wanting "privacy"? Pfft.

Why do you want to hide the fact you're using a dps meter?

It could also mean a thousand other things. However, meter defenders want to go negative. That's the problem with people that use meters on other people. They are just way too negative.

The responses from DPS spies seem to be rather monochromatic. All they seem capable of doing is insulting the people that don't want them used on them in secret.

Spies, lol!I don't hide the fact that i use a DPS meter, if people ask me i'll say i do, if they ask me their DPS i'll tell them, and mine, and whoever else they ask in the party.Well, people that join groups to be carried, are insulting to me.I take the time to prepare, get potions, get food, get decent gear, learn my rotation, so that i don't need to depend on others, and everyone on the group can have a smooth and enjoyable run.People that chose not to do the same, are just being rude and inconsiderate in my opinion, and its insulting to me that they chose to do so.YET 3/5 times i'll carry their asses all the same since its more of a hassle to kick a slacker and wait for a replacement, hoping the next guy isn't another slacker, than it is to just carry the guy through, as long as the run is going smooth and reasonably fast.

In fact i'd take 4 "toxic elitists" over 1 "lazy elitist/non conformist", because if everyone is doing well, the "toxic elitists" will be quiet and happy, but i will always have to carry the "lazy" guy. So as you can see it's not even the same level of toxicity, because people that choose not to do well in group content are passively toxic. They're toxic regardless of the circumstances because their whole build and approach is what is generating their toxicity.Elitists are "actively toxic", they will only act toxic if the circumstances frustrate them.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

Since this threads appear all the time, it is clearly the problem.

No, this thread is different. The OP asked for meter users to be flagged, not for the usual, which is, "Disallow meters."

And it is being actively ignored.

Sure about that, are you? Choosing not to do as posters want does not mean ANet is ignoring the issue.

Same thing you say about dps meter problems above were being constantly repeated to people who wanted raids and mounts. And guess what, we have raids and mounts now.

A funny thing about meter threads is that they tend to attract the same objecting posters, who say the same things, often over and over. All it takes is for one new objector, and they begin to post. That does not mean that the perceived problem is ubiquitous, just that those who object are persistent. I do the same thing anytime someone posts about effect clutter or story instance DC's because those matter to me. The same was true for mount and raid threads.

I am not against dps meters as tools. However I want the policy and/or their implementation changed in this game. Which will never happen, obviously.

I am not against DPS meters as tools, either. Nor am I against people (like the OP) wanting not to play with people who use meters. I support the idea of players grouping with the like-minded. However, I'm not sure that it is always up to ANet to provide a convenience tool to allow players to do that.

The status quo seems balanced. People who dislike meters have to play the game to see if a random player in the group is going to post meter data. Those who use meters have to play the game to see if a random player in the group is going to generate DPS numbers they find unacceptable and/or if the group is going to fail the encounter where low DPS is a likely cause. While it might be nice for ANet to provide tools for anyone and everyone to get exactly what they want from a play session, that approach would very quickly cause the game to collapse under the weight of the development requirements for that kind of support.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Double post....

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@starhunter.6015 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:I am in EU and the server I am playing on is in EU as well and EU just got a new privacy law that companies cannot overrule at will. So I am very much in doubt that I accepted such rules and even if I did that this is valid.

Don't forget Anet is in the USA, our laws apply here not EU's. That being said like many have stated combat data is public, it is not personal data. If you don't like it may I suggest uninstall and go play something single player ? Honestly your attitude is worse then any Raid DPS elitist I have ever seen.

They still have too follow eu laws in order to do bussnies in eu

[Imperadordf.2687]

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.

Just type "chill run" to LFG and the elitists will NEVER bother you, and if you don't well it's on you. But demanding unreasonable things and wanting "privacy"? Pfft.

Why do you want to hide the fact you're using a dps meter?

It could also mean a thousand other things. However, meter defenders want to go negative. That's the problem with people that use meters on other people. They are just way too negative.

The responses from DPS spies seem to be rather monochromatic. All they seem capable of doing is insulting the people that don't want them used on them in secret.

Show me where I wanted to hide that I'm using a DPS meter. Instead, I would love to show that I'm using a DPS meter if this flagging ever gets introduced.

Depends on how you see "negative". I see it as if I got kicked from a squad (never happened by the way, I really don't know how bad people need to be if they get kicked) I understand that I was being a burden to my team and move on. I don't create negative threads like "Remove DPS meters, DISCRIMINATE people who are using DPS meters" etc.

I didn't even insult people here. If you take "being bad at the game" as an insult, well then; I didn't insult people who didn't want DPS meters to be used on them. I insulted people who want to discriminate people by flagging them and demand their "private" data to be hidden.

P.S. Using the word "discriminate" feels good.

Edit : Grammar mistake.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:IF combat data is public, why shouldn't dps meter use be public? I think that people using dps meters should be flagged.

Sure, I would love to kick people who don't use dps meters. It would save me a lot of effort and bad feelings for kicking people. Instead of kicking them after the first wipe, kick them instantly.

Solid idea, love it.

I love this attitude "people that object to being spied on a bad players and will wipe at the first opportunity". Life is too short to play with people that share this attitude. That is why it would be nice to know who is using DPS meters so we can avoid people with lousy attitudes.

Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.

Just type "chill run" to LFG and the elitists will NEVER bother you, and if you don't well it's on you. But demanding unreasonable things and wanting "privacy"? Pfft.

Why do you want to hide the fact you're using a dps meter?

It could also mean a thousand other things. However, meter defenders want to go negative. That's the problem with people that use meters on other people. They are just way too negative.

The responses from DPS spies seem to be rather monochromatic. All they seem capable of doing is insulting the people that don't want them used on them in secret.

So, what's the premise here? Are you trying to tell me that this suggestion is somehow neutral or positive when the intent is clearly meant to reflect the perceived elitism resulting from the use of damage meters back on those who use them?

It's unfortunate that some use dps meters to harass other players. Now you want a flag that allows you to do the same?

Hey, whatever you want. But that is absolutely guaranteed to backfire and increase your perception of elitism and toxicity.

[LadyKitty.6120]

DPS meters are mainly an issue if you're playing badly. But if you're playing even somewhat decently, they're actually quite beneficial as they can show if there's some issue that prevents the squad from killing the boss and it's good for evading the feeler commanders who don't have the meter and assume that some person is doing badly for whatever reason though even if that person is actually doing best in the squad. And they also kinda help people with unusual builds to get into raids if they know their build and do good DPS.

Also, from what Kitty's heard and seen, Arcdps reads the data sent by Anet's server. It doesn't connect anywhere itself as it's a mere data reading program. Kind of an evidence of such is the small variances between logs recorded by various players in the same fight as their Arcdps just reads the information they get (which is slightly different for everyone due to limits of what servers let each player see. Usually there's 0,1-0,2k DPS difference between logs from different computers.

[Cyberman Mastermind.6012]

@"Imperadordf.2687" said:Why would you want to hide your DPS from other players other than if you're bad at the game? Either you're bad at the game (which is nothing to be ashamed of by the way) or you're new to the class.Quick guess? Bad experience with the "110% efficiency crowd" that exists in all games. Not everyone reacts with "Hm. You could do more damage if you tried this or that.".For some people, not being perfect (especially if it's someone else who isn't perfect) is something to be ashamed of.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:And you'd be amazed how many times that happens, people literally doing less DPS than characters that aren't really trying to do damage.I think the main problem here is that people currently have no way (without 3rd party tools) to actually KNOW this.

I thought the basic setup of GW2 was intended to make that a moot point (no trinity, pre-set skills). The (common?) use of DPS-Meters means it's not as trivial to make a functioning character as ANet claimed (which was AFAIK the whole reason for not allowing us to customize our skills).

[edit]Now I'm at the poing of being unsure how much DPS I'm doing at all - anyone got a link to an allowed DPS Meter?

[windbliss.3158]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@altermaven.7385 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@altermaven.7385 said:I am saying that making the ability to measure/share DPS mandatory for entrance/participation will lead down dark paths. And trust me, it's a path you don't want to travel. We have days where we become sub-optimal. How can you tell if someone's having one of those days, besides scorning that person for not fulfilling the role?

By talking mostly, it can do wonders. "Hey sorry I messed that up, the cat jumped on me!". For common every day interruptions like that, talking can do wonders. Now if it's something deeper and not a simple interruption then I don't know that's different. Maybe if you don't feel up for a fast/experienced run, don't join such a run?

I was putting that in a perspective of a third party. If I'm not having a good day, I don't put myself in the hot seat. But I agree, communication is grand, as long as you make sure others understand. Not everyone is forgiving, but as long as you have the communication you'll be through it most of the time.

Still, the moderate point I'm making is that requiring that you can show you can do X to get in is like asking for a membership card most of the time. If you can show it, go ham.

Again let’s reiterate it, before Combat Meters were allowed Players were regularly excluded based on completely irrelevant and arbitrary information based upon AP, Class being played, what armor set they were wearing, what title they have etc. Combat Meters provide accurate and relevant information, and just because a player wants to be in a certain group doesn’t mean the other player’s have to allow them in or keep them in which has always been the case, player’s can choose who they want to or not want to group up with, they aren’t forced to accept anyone or everyone into their groups.

Also Combat Meters aren’t mandatory for anything and it’s relatively easy to find like minded people to group up with to do any content in game.

And I respect that. Noting wrong will happen if you have a solid group that you can work well with. In that case, you won't need any other abitrary things. Trust and understanding with a team you know you'll be able to work with will always be better than trying to PUG it in virtually all circumstances.

So a point was made. I'll end returning responses here. Now that I have some caffeine, I can realise some of my prior text is just mere garbage.

[TexZero.7910]

Anyone else noticing the irony of don't invade my privacy, but Anet please invade everyone's privacy then socially ostracize the people i don't like ?

[Draco.9480]

or you can just improve yourself instead blaming your lazy bad game play on others who want good runs. if you perform badly as a dps means you're not suppose to play with people who do way higher than you. doing low dps means stretching the fight and drag down your team. people that perform badly in the content shouldn't be immune from criticism. good dps meters exist to point who's at fault dragging the team down.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@TexZero.7910 said:Anyone else noticing the irony of don't invade my privacy, but Anet please invade everyone's privacy then socially ostracize the people i don't like ?

We all noticed. But, pandora's box has been opened. Once you have spying, marking the spies is turnabout. It's sort of like another real world law where you have to go around your new neighborhood telling everyone that you've committed one of a wide range of crimes. Yeah, it isn't fair that you have to let everyone know your criminal history, but that comes with the crime.

[boomersooner.4612]

Well if you don't want ppl to see your dps you can always solo. Just a suggestion

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:Anyone else noticing the irony of don't invade my privacy, but Anet please invade everyone's privacy then socially ostracize the people i don't like ?

We all noticed. But, pandora's box has been opened. Once you have spying, marking the spies is turnabout. It's sort of like another real world law where you have to go around your new neighborhood telling everyone that you've committed one of a wide range of crimes. Yeah, it isn't fair that you have to let everyone know your criminal history, but that comes with the crime.

Its not spying since as stated above an by Anet all Combat Data is Public data and consent is given to the use of dps Meter whenever you join a group...... just saying pretty simple concepts.