An Eye on the Deadeye

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

you could of 1 shot me with backstab since the aa nerf to sword, removed all vitality infusions for power so now i sit at 17225 health but still run dura runes

[bq pd.2148]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:I mean rifle against other weaponset thieves, I feel it still may lack something but I'm still messing around with it. Endurance regen would be nice in a trait (and I won't go the acro route, too little ini, it's kind of already messed up my other build).

you never play with only 1 weapon set. i play with d/p + rifle. fighting a thief or power mes i mostly use a dagger backstab unless i know they are bad or i really want to make them rage in that case for instance against d/p thief i wait for them to try going into stealth with BP+HS and DJ into their HS. like this :https://youtu.be/X90HkOQGQ5s

the use of the stolen skill is important to not get steal interrupted.

[Excalibur.7685]

Hello all,When deadeye was announced, i thought of a 'sniper' new player: boy was i disapointed. First of: the shooting range is TOO SHORT if considering deadeye as a sniper. Second, why does it take so many bullets to kill a foe? isn't a sniper can kill on 1 bullet or 2 bullets? And lastly, when positioning yourself from any place, ex: above on a cliff, or up above high in a tree, why is the range too short or UNABLE to shoot cause you get a red circle? Please anet, if you created a 'deadeye' to be as a sniper, do it properly so we can use our long range rifles as it should be. BTW I worked so hard to get my legendary rifle.

[RicochetXD.4128]

Okay. As a thief main, my main character is a deadeye that I run through dungeons, story, and open world PVE. I've experienced a lot of the problems involving the versatility of the build and I can tell you without a doubt that the previous 4 skill saved my life on multiple occasions. Having it removed has frankly made me a lot more apprehensive. Most of the issue of the build does not come from incoming projectiles, but enemies that hunt you down in your kneeling state and kill you with meelee. This new update does nothing to address that and honestly takes away my only skill that could kill them quicker than they could get to me.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but after going in game and experimenting some, I'm certain that the lack of offensive skills and the shortness of the new skill is going to get me killed quite a bit. It's honestly worse than if it had just been left alone.

Instead of replacing offensive skills, an easy option is when you are in a kneeling position, to change the 5th skill to Death's retreat instead. This would allow those like me who lose mobility and die from that to survive better. Frankly, however, the way that the deadeye locks down, I need all the offensive skills I can get.

Another option would be to increase endurance when in a kneeling state, so you can evade three times instead of just two. That would give any thief enough time to stand up.

Projectile barrier is cool, but it's not viable. And frankly, incredibly unnecessary and not long enough for what it is. We already have Smoke Screen and it lasts longer and is more effective than this new barrier, which I believe is useless.

Sorry for the rant, but this change is just not viable in the long run without some major balances. It's a whole new bag of worms and it's incredibly redundant.

You've taken away extra damage in exchange for a mini smoke screen and you haven't addressed the real problems with keeping alive as a thief. I hope you take this post into consideration.

[Asphelt.6802]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, I've had a taste and I like it. Only tried pve so far but so far thoroughly approve. Putting the stealth on evade i personally think was inspired, and for those worried about the time taken to accumulate malice don't be. It rockets up in seconds, way faster than previously even when attacking. The new skill 4 i find excellent, a shield that is also a smoke field, granting more access to stealth when combined with withdraw. Also enjoying the new DJ, which feels faster (probably because it is) and is unblockable. Finally you haven't turned it into the be-all-end-all. It feels more fluid, but not overpowered, though I'm sure those salty about DJ will now be even more so.

tl;dr: opposite of post above...

Edit: I meant retreat, 4,5,4 quick combo, stealth and shadowstep.

Edit 2: I play casual pve and pvp so cannot comment on raid and fractal efficiency.

[DemonSeed.3528]

withdraw is not a leap though, it's just an evade, afaik it's not going to stealth you in rifle 4 kneel. works with death's retreat and sbow 2 and blinding powder etc though

[AfroMetal.5394]

Sooo, new DJ is kinda bugged... While I checked how new skill works I found a bug that made that after dodge roll stealth when using new DJ instead of skill working correctly you just get debuff "revealed". No dps whatsoever.

[Asphelt.6802]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:withdraw is not a leap though, it's just an evade, afaik it's not going to stealth you in rifle 4 kneel. works with death's retreat and sbow 2 and blinding powder etc though

Withdraw is a leap.

[Asphelt.6802]

@Asphelt.6802 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:withdraw is not a leap though, it's just an evade, afaik it's not going to stealth you in rifle 4 kneel. works with death's retreat and sbow 2 and blinding powder etc though

Withdraw is a leap.

Oh bugger sorry mate, I meant retreat

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Asphelt.6802 said:

@Asphelt.6802 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:withdraw is not a leap though, it's just an evade, afaik it's not going to stealth you in rifle 4 kneel. works with death's retreat and sbow 2 and blinding powder etc though

Withdraw is a leap.

Oh kitten sorry mate, I meant retreat

ah gotcha lol

[Lucinellia.9247]

So, unless I am missing something, Deadeye has suffered a considerable DPS drop in PvE. Rifle is pretty much unusable now and dagger/dagger can't hit the old highs (amazing highs of almost 30.5k!) due to the loss of the 21% damage boost from full Malice. I hope myself, and the people testing, find something that works because if not, you've just put out a rework that has killed an underplayed profession in PvE - the rifle changes are clunky, the Malice changes are awful and the trait reworks mean we still can't sufficiently run any decent support as a Deadeye.

This, in a patch where Daredevil (mediocre condi damage and poor power damage) seems to have received no major improvements.

Anet, I love your game, but what are you playing at?

In the chrono rework, which was meant to tone down alacrity, you gave chrono more healing, better pure support specs, better dps / support specs and a power DPS option. In the deadeye rework, you seem to have ruined the elite in PvE.

I sincerely hope I'm missing something.

[Asphelt.6802]

One change I don't like is the change to the heal. Before it was pretty much a complete cleanse at max malice, now there is no reason to take it over withdraw at all. Non I can think of. Should have upped the heal to a middleground.

[Nomad.4301]

So some initial observations of mine after the changes:

1. [silent Scope] the way this grants stealth feels extremely "clunky" and you often get revealed immediately after dodging due to projectiles still in the air striking the target mid-dodge, which then requires you to stop attacking, un-kneel, re-kneel then dodge again which totally kills the flow and any potential DPS.

2.The [silent Scope] mechanic where the stealth CD resets after un-kneeling and re-kneeling feels awful, it basically makes my rotation look like this (with M7) "Mark>3>3>3>3>dodge>1>3>3>3>3>kneel>kneel>dodge>1>repeat" the kneels/dodge in the middle kill the flow and lower DPS. *see edit.

3. The rotation is also no less stale then it was before when it was "1>1>1>4>1>1>1>1>4" it just has unnecessary kneeling and dodging thrown in now.

4. Malice also feels completely useless now and even somewhat inhibiting on weapons that have no way to "consume" it. For example with P/P you fill up malice pretty fast and with the new M7 getting that extra ini regen and boons with full malice feels great however once you hit 7 malice you're stuck there until you use a stealth attack, which p/p has no real access to, even if you did take a stealth utility you would be using it JUST to dump the malice to get M7 to proc again because the stealth attack with pistol is very underwhelming, this also applies to SB, S/P, Spear, Harpoon Gun, and D/P if in an area with combo fields that overlap your smoke. A reasonable fix for this may be to just make re-applying mark on a target with max malice trigger the M7 effect.

5.DPS feels much lower (about 5k less) this could just be me not used to the clunky rotation. However with the removal of the malice damage bonus and the addition of a 10% flat from a minor trait it does result in a 5-11% damage loss on the marked target.

6.The deadeye heal skill is considerably worse now in PvE at least, it provides less healing then withdraw with almost twice the CD and less condi removal potential then it did before.

7.When running rifle you're all but forced to take [silent Scope] in order to make use of the elite Spec mechanic Malice which means you can't really pick the other two options, one of which [Premeditation] would actually synergize fairly well with M7 (provided you don't actually need the 20% crit boost) in order to recover some lost damage caused by the removal of the old malice. Picking a trait should always be optional IMO you should NEVER feel forced to take a specific one JUST to make use of your classes innate mechanics. It would be nice if the stealth on dodge was a mechanic of the rifle/kneel itself rather then a trait.

I'll try and update this if i notice anything else.

• Edit: It would appear that the [silent Scope] trait has no CD, internal or otherwise, provided you use dodge while staying kneeled without standing up, effectively allowing you to dodge for stealth on demand as long as you are kneeling. This makes it slightly less clunky to consume malice. However my #1 still stands, you get revealed from your own autos about a third of the time while dodging.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

So staff daredevil it is?

[bq pd.2148]

@"Nomad.4301" said:So some initial observations of mine after the changes:

1. [silent Scope] the way this grants stealth feels extremely "clunky" and you often get revealed immediately after dodging due to projectiles still in the air striking the target mid-dodge, which then requires you to stop attacking, un-kneel, re-kneel then dodge again which totally kills the flow and any potential DPS.

if you dodge while kneeling the silent scope cd removes itself pretty instant, you see the cooldown in your buff bar.but the stealth would be better applied at the end of the roll so you have a very low chance of self reveal.

4. Malice also feels completely useless now and even somewhat inhibiting on weapons that have no way to "consume" it. For example with P/P you fill up malice pretty fast and with the new M7 getting that extra ini regen and boons with full malice feels great however once you hit 7 malice you're stuck there until you use a stealth attack, which p/p has no real access to, even if you did take a stealth utility you would be using it JUST to dump the malice to get M7 to proc again because the stealth attack with pistol is very underwhelming, this also applies to SB, S/P, Spear, Harpoon Gun, and D/P if in an area with combo fields that overlap your smoke. A reasonable fix for this may be to just make re-applying mark on a target with max malice trigger the M7 effect.

i think if the stealth part of silent scope was not rifle exclusive but only the crit chance / cd reset, that would help the other sets with their stealth skills.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:So staff daredevil it is?

Sadly, saw no buffs in the patch so will still be poor in terms of relative DPS.

if you dodge while kneeling the silent scope cd removes itself pretty instant, you see the cooldown in your buff bar.but the stealth would be better applied at the end of the roll so you have a very low chance of self reveal.

Yes, but for a PvE rifle rotation, we need to stand and then rekneel and then dodge. This is where the clunkiness kicks in

[breno.5423]

Kneeling to remove the Silent Scope Cooldown is the worst mechanic ever >.<'

[Astyrah.4015]

@MUDse.7623 said:if you dodge while kneeling the silent scope cd removes itself pretty instant, you see the cooldown in your buff bar.but the stealth would be better applied at the end of the roll so you have a very low chance of self reveal.

yeah it is clunky at the moment, in a real fight (not the golem) sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt even with auto attack off so it's pretty unreliable for a way to stealth yourself for DJs atm dunno if this is intended

[Zalavaaris.5329]

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:So staff daredevil it is?

Sadly, saw no buffs in the patch so will still be poor in terms of relative DPS.

if you dodge while kneeling the silent scope cd removes itself pretty instant, you see the cooldown in your buff bar.but the stealth would be better applied at the end of the roll so you have a very low chance of self reveal.

Yes, but for a PvE rifle rotation, we need to stand and then rekneel and then dodge. This is where the clunkiness kicks in

It was only slightly behind but is now ahead of power deadeye in terms of feel and potentially damage. I'll need to see what the theorycrafters say about it.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

So were my fears right in that they basically gutted PvE rifle Deadeye in order to make it more "favourable" for stupid PvP? It appears so. Good job A-net. pff

[FreundHein.2739]

Another class-killing for PvE players. Thank you very much, A-net, I enjoyed playing DE until this day.

[Almondjoy.8964]

I love the changes it actually feels like there is flow in the rotation now. I totally called perfectionist now M7 basically refuelling initiative. I liked how easy the class was before, I like the way it plays now. All in all I think people will get used to the way class plays now.

The synergy with class is amazing. kneel 4 and DR are a great escape option, or you can aoe blind with 2 and kneel 4. I really love that. The traits also allow a quickness rifle build that is just fun to run in open world.

The main skill people seem to have problems with is the dodge invis but honestly it works so well imo because you can dodge while kneeling to cancel the kneel and cast A STANDING MOVING DJ! I really love that!

I just wanted to post something positive abd remember that the game and now this class is more fun. The devs set out a goal to make the class more interactive and I think they achieved just that Thanks Anet!!

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Almondjoy.8964 said:I love the changes it actually feels like there is flow in the rotation now. I totally called perfectionist now M7 basically refuelling initiative. I liked how easy the class was before, I like the way it plays now. All in all I think people will get used to the way class plays now.

The synergy with class is amazing. kneel 4 and DR are a great escape option, or you can aoe blind with 2 and kneel 4. I really love that. The traits also allow a quickness rifle build that is just fun to run in open world.

The main skill people seem to have problems with is the dodge invis but honestly it works so well imo because you can dodge while kneeling to cancel the kneel and cast A STANDING MOVING DJ! I really love that!

I just wanted to post something positive abd remember that the game and now this class is more fun. The devs set out a goal to make the class more interactive and I think they achieved just that Thanks Anet!!

It sounds like you are talking purely PvP perspective. These changes screw over the PvE side.

[DeceiverX.8361]

D/P SA going to be even more overpowered for WvW than it already was lol.

Incoming 30k+ backstabs from permastealth builds because ANet forgot how SA works lol.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:So staff daredevil it is?

Sadly, saw no buffs in the patch so will still be poor in terms of relative DPS.

if you dodge while kneeling the silent scope cd removes itself pretty instant, you see the cooldown in your buff bar.but the stealth would be better applied at the end of the roll so you have a very low chance of self reveal.

Yes, but for a PvE rifle rotation, we need to stand and then rekneel and then dodge. This is where the clunkiness kicks in

It was only slightly behind but is now ahead of power deadeye in terms of feel and potentially damage. I'll need to see what the theorycrafters say about it.

Staff Daredevil? You'll get more cleave but the DPS is very slightly lower than that of Deadeye opening with rifle and then switching to dagger/dagger ignoring the new Malice mechanic, ignoring the new Maleficent Seven trait and just spamming autos and CnD backstabs. Actually trying to use the new M7 with a Malice building Heartseeker rotation seems to be a noticeable DPS loss.

However, both staff Daredevil and rifle + dagger/dagger Deadeye look like they are going to be behind most of the other power DPS options.