An Eye on the Deadeye

[Vulcaruss.9567]

Personally I think the fix is in, the majority of the posts on here are either negative or against, with a few chiming it it some how helps them and makes it better... I personally cannot conceive how. But most of the positive people aren't even using Rifle, which the majority of the changes affect. This change certainly does help Non-Rifle Deadeyes, and I'm not against people using different weapons depending on their choices and styles.

Regardless the class revolves around and promotes use with the rifle. If these changes could be applied to core Thief I would have absolutely no problem with it, but that's not possible since Malice is involved, This patch just benefits the aspects and strengthens core Thief Mechanics rather than actual Deadeye Mechanics.

I dueled a friend in my Guild Hall Arena to help me gauge the difference, to be fair my friend wasn't trying too awfully hard cause they were tired. But it was literally just me playing a game of keep away using D/P #3 Blinding Shadow Step shot till I got to max malice, poped a stealth and fired, not very engaging game play if I do say so myself.

My tests in Open World Yielded even more disappointing results. Unless your target is Veteran grade or Above, they most likely will be dead from Three Round Burst spam by the time you reach Max Malice, then force Stealth just to hope you get a 10k+ Crit'er.

These change take away the flashy triumph of the massive crits of #4 Skill Deaths Judgement of the previous version. It's more disappointing and depressing as well as extra work to get results from the Stealth Skill version. But these changes do make the other thief weapons more appealing due to the transferance of the Deadeye Malice capability.

Now I know that I've posted here a lot, but that's frankly due to my particular love of this class. I wanted a Rifle back when Daredevil was announced.

As to what I would change? Well I think they pegged the Stealth benefit from Malice pretty well on the weapons, that has potential. But, Making Malice an On Initiative charge and making it expend on skill usage doesn't work. Best case scenario here to preserve both the good from both versions is to keep these weapons the same, but putting Deaths Judgement back on #4, removing the laughable defensive skill, and make Cursed Bullet the Stealth Skill again and make it scale with Malice, while returning Malice back to the way it was before this patch with the passive charge and damage increase, and reverting Snipers Cover back to the On Kneel stealth it had before.

That is all I'd change. It overall would be an improvement and make all the weapons more viable at the same time. It's not a complete reversion of the class, but I think it's a fair middle ground as to what we have now.

[stone cold.8609]

Vulcaruss, you may be right. I think your perspective on the changes depends on your play style and weapon choice. As a non rifle Thief who gave up stealth years ago and is not into the sniper archetype, I really like the changes for a condi D/D build. I'm actually switching from Daredevil to Deadeye because of the changes! So for me, all I can say is good job ANet.

[Aistos.5174]

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:Personally I think the fix is in, the majority of the posts on here are either negative or against, with a few chiming it it some how helps them and makes it better... I personally cannot conceive how. But most of the positive people aren't even using Rifle, which the majority of the changes affect. This change certainly does help Non-Rifle Deadeyes, and I'm not against people using different weapons depending on their choices and styles...

You Sir are talking out of my mind again. Normally I'm not very active in forums but this time i can not just watch how my favourite class which I built up for the last months is ruined. It really frustrates me and if the changes stay like this I have to stay away from this game (at least for a while).

I mean all the positive feedback for this changes is coming from people who are playing deadeye without rifle (D/P or D/D, of course thats fine, have fun with it!) But what I really don't understand is why they have to ruin the rifle build of deadeye which is considered to be the main build for this elite class honestly. And the danger is, that the devs now only see the positive feedback of the non-rifle deadeyes and think they did a good job. But in the eyes of a player who loved playing rifle-deadeye over all, this patch destroys the whole game. If this special and unique class is taken out of the game (deadeye with a rifle as it was meant) GW2 loses not only a class but a big part of its diversity.

Please just give us back the old rifle skills as they where before, the old malice mechanic and the old trait line (actually all the changes Vulcaruss is suggesting in the post before). I don't see any reason for this changes, no one asked for it. If you want to nerf deadeye (very questionable) then you can nerf it in numbers, but please don't destroy it like you did now...

[Tamurello Mistmind.5912]

Rifle DE here, mainly PvE.The main I've built and had so much fun with has been killed by these changes. I didn't want to be a stealth build, I didn't want to be forced into a 'one size fits all ' playstyle but it seems some Dev who probably never even looked at a rifle decided these changes would work for his PvP build ... either that or he got owned by a stealth sniper and decided to punish the rest of us for it.

I had a fun build, it was challenging and demanded fluidity and imagination, choosing the right time to strafe, the right time to use my initiative for best DPS, the right time to kneel and maybe get that sweet 30/40k crit but now I have to completely change my build, start playing like that Dev thinks I SHOULD be playing or settle for the mind numbing monotony of #3 spam and the chance of a 17k crit.

Stealth on dodge roll ... what a joke, roll off any platform you were on and fall to your death, roll backwards out of range, roll so your shot is obstructed.

The resources I've put into building this DE are wasted, all that time and gold for nothing, how is this going to benefit the game, how is it going to inspire confidence that future time played is worth the effort?

I went to sleep last night as a well rounded Deadeye, with good DPS, good survivability and a fun playstyle, I awoke this morning from uneasy dreams, and found myself transformed in my bed into a gigantic insect-like creature.

[Tunagod.8396]

Well I had a fun time with DE but the changes ruined it completely, thanks Anet for destroying a fun class. This didn't have wvw zerg viability before and even with your shit talent changes doesn't now. Im done with DE till things change after trying all viable builds I enjoy playing. DD it is.

[Anesco.8310]

That was a shot to the back for me... The Deadeye was good the way he was. Now the whole game mechanics has changed, it's more complicated and less sniper-like. Well done ANet. Irony off! If you really value the opinion of the community, you have to patch back the change. I bought the Add'on PoF and returned to GW2 for the sniper. If that remains so now, I will return to World of Warcraft, whether I like it or not.

[Specialka.7290]

I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

Now, we got more dynamic gameplay, a bit clunky tough.

[Aihao.5824]

bring old DE back pls

[Astyrah.4015]

@Specialka.7290 said:I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared and are lazy about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

[Specialka.7290]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared

and are lazy

about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

I mean, it was not fun in Pve either. Trash mob, you would never be able to get full malice on any single one in open world. It had to be a veteran or more to hope for that. And once you were at full malice, you just had to spam Dj, not really great gameplay either.

Maybe in raid and such, you could get full malice on a regular mob, but what after? Spam Dj and that is all.

[Astyrah.4015]

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared

and are lazy

about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

I mean, it was not fun in Pve either. Trash mob, you would never be able to get full malice on any single one in open world. It had to be a veteran or more to hope for that. And once you were at full malice, you just had to spam Dj, not really great gameplay either.

Maybe in raid and such, you could get full malice on a regular mob, but what after? Spam Dj and that is all.

and that old rifle gameplay is what drew other people to the class/spec though, including me. now i would be fine with the new changes mind you but only if it rewarded us with better DPS for rifle compared to pre-patch BUT as it stands you need to do more effort for the same DPS, i mean if the devs want me to work a little bit harder to do damage i better get rewarded for it

EDIT: and when i refer to PvE stuff i mostly refer to metabosses/fractals/champs etc. things that dont die with mark+rifle3 spam reworkedDE or not. for general trash/open world you can get by with any build and any class with some effort.

[Aistos.5174]

@Specialka.7290 said:I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

Now, we got more dynamic gameplay, a bit clunky tough.

You are right, the one shot possibility was maybe a bit too strong. But to nerf this you don't need to change the whole class and destroy all sniper mechanics of it. Just nerf DJ or make it cost more initiative if necessary. And for sure don't add a useless skill like #4 or evade for stealth. It's not that hard to guess for the enemy (PvP/WvW) where you are after evading backwards while kneeling...

And did we really need another more dynamic specialization for thief? In my opinion there were already enough possibilitys for a dynamic playstile with a thief with all the other weapons/specializations. Because of this patch the diversity of thief class is gone and with it the possibility to chose a specialization which fits your personal playstyle. So I don't understand at all why they did it that way.

[Gray.9041]

Just gonna chime in here with my feedback.

Deadeye feels worse to me. The damage is definitely not better, and feels worse. Rifle feels iffy, since the stealth requirement has made death's judgement a lot flakier, and less reliable. Rifle feels odd. The fact I'm encouraged to use three round burst is nice, but I'm using Death's judgement less because stealth is an extra gate and any number of things can break it.

I like the changes to malice generation, and I'm okay with the new method of consumption. But I miss the old method of Death's judgement, and I feel like deadeye hasn't gotten any more effective at damage or at support.

Also, for a borderline support spec, deadeye needs to be able to share boons other than might with a decent degree of reliability. If you could share the boons from perfectionist, I could see the use. As is, not so much.

Also, not a fan of deadeye stolen skills. They're underwhelming, too random to be central to the build, and block the class from useful skills such as those added in raids.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

They need to make a 10 second window of DJs with full malice and remove the stealth requirement. So when I hit 7 stacks of malice I should get a buff that gives me 5-10 seconds of DJs without being stealthed. That for me is the only way this gets better.

[jenosmaverick.8694]

any chance they roll the old deadeye back with this much negative comments?

[Astyrah.4015]

@jenosmaverick.8694 said:any chance they roll the old deadeye back with this much negative comments?

i doubt they will, and if ever they'll probably meet us halfway and just give in to some of the suggestions so yeah a full rollback on the rework is very unlikely

[Kallist.5917]

@jenosmaverick.8694 said:any chance they roll the old deadeye back with this much negative comments?

None, the DE community needs to stay vocal on this. It needs to become borderline disruptive to get our point across. To my knowledge, ANet has never rolledback a balance change, no matter how much hate it had. We need to keep these posts up, and whisper GMs every time we see them. My biggest fear is that this hate and outrage for the changes will die out quickly.

[Borrd.4951]

After coming back to GW2 from PUBG and Battlefield recently i thought deadeye was the perfect fit for me. But after this patch, im not wasting my time playing GW2 anymore, nor will i spend any of my cash on anything in GW2. if that was the effect the devs wanted.... congrats.you screwed the pooch with this change Anet

[Lone Reanimationist.4263]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:First, we felt that stealth was a solid core mechanic that touched every single thief weapon and had many synergies through core traits and skills.Wrong (ignoring the fact that P/P feels thematically more like playing a bandit than a "stealthy thief" anyways): stealth based fighting mechanics are pretty much irrelevant for dual pistol gameplay and frankly, no P/P thief cares about having them either. In regards to weapon skills it's definitely not a "core gameplay mechanic for every single thief weapon" nor should it be.

I do use stealth with Pistol/Pistol, and pistol/dagger, in the open world PVE, and in fractals.

On a different point, the deadeye rifle needs much more range. Sniper should be about getting into position, setting up for that perfect 1 shot that kills the target. Or if its a boss, severely hurting it. If the sniper location is discover, or the enemies catches up to the sniper, then the sniper should ether have to flee or die. Setup and cool down should be long. Perhaps more range, and longer cooldown for the kill shot, death judgement. More like what sniper are suppose to be.

[Armaelus.6120]

@"Gaile Gray.6029"

Hello,I'm afraid to understand the new mechanic of malice : Now, it's only bind to DJ, cause only this abilitie use malice to increase damage. But the other sniper's abilities are no concerned. With the passive trait, we have a gain of 10% damage on our target when it's marked. Before this patch, with the malice, we canbuild up all sniper's abilities damage to 15% or 21% (with 7 malices). With this patch I understand we lose this bonus, especially with 7 malices.

What about to change like this :

• Put smoke field in the "5" (kneel only, not up) with a passive trait like premeditation or revenge
• Keep Dj on "4" using all malice when target is hit
• Keep "silent scope" like it was before patch (kneel => stealh)
• Change 2nd passive trait : when target killed, damage incoming reduce for 20% in 3s
• Change 3rd passive trait : 10% base damage on marked target then, +5% extra damage when 5 malices reach or +10% extra damage when 7 malices reach.

[Tails.9372]

@Lone Reanimationist.4263 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:First, we felt that stealth was a solid core mechanic that touched every single thief weapon and had many synergies through core traits and skills.Wrong (ignoring the fact that P/P feels thematically more like playing a bandit than a "stealthy thief" anyways): stealth based fighting mechanics are pretty much irrelevant for dual pistol gameplay and frankly, no P/P thief cares about having them either. In regards to weapon skills it's definitely not a "core gameplay mechanic for every single thief weapon" nor should it be.

Actually I use stealth a lot with Pistol/Pistol ... in the open world PVE, and in fractals. Its essential to the build.

Yeah, to disengage or skipping some enemies but not for the sake of the actual fighting itself.

[xp eke xp.6724]

At all i like it. It would be nice if you separate mark and malice, cause that makes deadeye more playable. if you can get malice by hitting someone with one skill (not each enermie) it makes the marks and stealth-attacks flexible and you have more options for the idea behind the traitline. So players get a real choice between more stealthplay or if they fokus more on steal(mark). Imo every elite specialisation should fokus on one strength that the class allready had.

Or do you have other ideas with the spec's? If yes, don't tell me, i like surprises,

At all thanks for the update.

[Legatus.3608]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:So staff daredevil it is?

Basically yes

[Jumpel.3972]

I actually think they make a big mistake by choosing to remove interaction between Malice and Deadeyes Utilities. These Utilities should consume Malice when hiting the marked target with a bonus for each stack consume. It will make a better interaction between Malice system and weapon with no easy acces to stealth or bad stealth attack (like P/P and condi D/D)

[Astyrah.4015]

@Jumpel.3972 said:I actually think they make a big mistake by choosing to remove interaction between Malice and Deadeyes Utilities. These Utilities should consume Malice when hiting the marked target with a bonus for each stack consume. It will make a better interaction between Malice system and weapon with no easy acces to stealth or bad stealth attack (like P/P and condi D/D)

been trying P/P for the lols right now and would love something like this if it was tied to a trait or something.. like if at full M7, and dump all of that on a shadow flare for massive aoe damage would be lovely - that way it opens up more weapon choices for DE builds