Jump to content
  • Sign Up

An Eye on the Deadeye


Gaile Gray.6029

Recommended Posts

The Fact you guys are Arguing over Damage output at this point is ridiculous. Just face it, Rifle does less now, Dagger does more. P/P isn't much different if anything a small dip in damage from last patch... There I solved it, lets move on to getting the Devs to actually fix this Injustice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 772
  • Created
  • Last Reply

@"Vulcaruss.9567" said:The Fact you guys are Arguing over Damage output at this point is ridiculous. Just face it, Rifle does less now, Dagger does more. P/P isn't much different if anything a small dip in damage from last patch... There I solved it, lets move on to getting the Devs to actually fix this Injustice.

+1

let me add on the golem vs real fights matter:

the thing is, the very same people who formulate the meta, the current meta now of chrono/druid/warrior holy trinity + -insert meta dps specs- for PvE, used the same methods, they test the synergy against a golem for raidwide dps and eventually found what constitutes the meta as it is now. and then they tested it on the real fights and confirmed and validated their tests. and these work, that's why those specs are "Most Effective Tactic Available".

people who make builds for each class and post them on websites such as snow crow's or meta battle do the same. people test on golem and then test in realtime scenarios and see if it's viable. almost everyone who plays this game that has a personal build has atleast based their build off of someone who's already done extensive testing and just tailored it to their playstyle be it in PvE, PvP, WvW.

the tests done on a golem were never meant to imply that you can pull off the same DPS in a real encounter but is a measure of your maximum potential. so while the current benchmark for the reworked DE rifle (with the unreliable silentscope atm) at 25k dps is what it is, in an actual fight, factoring in all the mechanics and things you need to do to survive, you'll pull off a lower number anywhere from 5% to 40% lower dps from your benchmark and that doesnt even include downtime during a phase when a boss goes invulnerable.

now compare that 25k potential DPS to the 30k pre-reworked rifle DE, that's almost certainly a 5k dps loss regardless of whether it's the golem or a real fight and on top of the added layer of stealthing before DJ-ing (with the clunky at the moment dodge rolls for stealth), it'll definitely be waaaay lower unless they make adjustments or tweaks.

and that's what a lot of us were complaining about: fix the stealthing, fix the lost 11% dmg from full malice M7 (because you just can't anymore with premedi fighting over a slot with silent scope), and maybe up the damage a lil bit with the ini skills for PvE.

then we'll shut up and adapt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tashigi.3159 said:

@"Asphelt.6802" said:"No matter what variables..." Explain this to me I don't get it. How can you know this from an inanimate object? It doesn't account for that awkward FIGHTING BACK variable. Give me one more chance, and if I still don't get it then I'll call it a night, or a morning...

Use your own hydra variable for example.Hydra uses their blast to push/knock you back. Both old and new Deadeye react to it the same by dodging. Both are still doing the same damage.Old Deadeye DPS is higher, so obviously he'll kill it first, even if he has to dodge or relocate, etc. Because the new Deadeye will have to do the same.You can keep adding more variables if you want, but the results will always be the same.

Ok I think i'm getting there, still not sure I fully agree though! On the hydra example for old DE to do anywhere near benchmark dps they have to be knelt for the majority of the time, which is difficult as Hydra is constantly closing gap and stunning. New Deadeye can achieve high damage by rotating between standing and kneeling, higher than old could without question as only difference is you can DJ while standing. Also new kneeling has no cool down. So say you initially dodge. The hydra then charges, you have to dodge again, and now you have to get up if it closes the distance, do this twice and now you cannot kneel for 10 seconds tanking your dps. New deadeye can stand up, use retreat not having to worry as much about initiative because DJ costs non, and instantly kneel for no cost and no cooldown keeping up more consistent pressure. It's things like this I don't see how this test can measure. I'm sure someone can argue a scenario where old Deadeye is better off, but in my personal experience it works better on the whole. But thank you for being patient with me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our focus right now needs to be on getting Mr. Gee and his team to realize the barrel of rotten toxic fish from Viathan lake they've shipped to us is absolutely unacceptable and down right cruel. Just cause they make good weapons long as you hold your nose when you swing it doesn't make the stench any less tolerable on the one using it. The State Rifle is in right now is shameful, sad and absolutely shameful, a literal disrespect to the class as a whole. Thats where our focus as a community should lie. Now Fellow Deadeye loving comrades lets show them just how on point our aim really is! (I just love motivational speeches, they're just to die for aren't they?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:Our focus right now needs to be on getting Mr. Gee and his team to realize the barrel of rotten toxic fish from Viathan lake they've shipped to us is absolutely unacceptable and down right cruel. Just cause they make good weapons long as you hold your nose when you swing it doesn't make the stench any less tolerable on the one using it. The State Rifle is in right now is shameful, sad and absolutely shameful, a literal disrespect to the class as a whole. Thats where our focus as a community should lie. Now Fellow Deadeye loving comrades lets show them just how on point our aim really is! (I just love motivational speeches, they're just to die for aren't they?)

putting everyone's differences aside, i wish we could. like everyone who is active on the thief/DE threads to just get the devs attention and make them talk... we can always save the arguing for later once we get a concrete word from the devs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:Our focus right now needs to be on getting Mr. Gee and his team to realize the barrel of rotten toxic fish from Viathan lake they've shipped to us is absolutely unacceptable and down right cruel. Just cause they make good weapons long as you hold your nose when you swing it doesn't make the stench any less tolerable on the one using it. The State Rifle is in right now is shameful, sad and absolutely shameful, a literal disrespect to the class as a whole. Thats where our focus as a community should lie. Now Fellow Deadeye loving comrades lets show them just how on point our aim really is! (I just love motivational speeches, they're just to die for aren't they?)

I won't be joining you because I disagree, however i'm all for democracy and if the majority are with you then they should change it back. The needs of the many... I loved old deadeye, I love new deadeye. It's clear most are not satisfied and the devs are obliged to address that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Asphelt.6802 said:

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:Our focus right now needs to be on getting Mr. Gee and his team to realize the barrel of rotten toxic fish from Viathan lake they've shipped to us is absolutely unacceptable and down right cruel. Just cause they make good weapons long as you hold your nose when you swing it doesn't make the stench any less tolerable on the one using it. The State Rifle is in right now is shameful, sad and absolutely shameful, a literal disrespect to the class as a whole. Thats where our focus as a community should lie. Now Fellow Deadeye loving comrades lets show them just how on point our aim really is! (I just love motivational speeches, they're just to die for aren't they?)

I won't be joining you

And that is your right to enact here, I'm well aware some people are happy with the changes, I personally feel we can find a middle ground on where both the best of the new and the best of the old can be melded together to make Deadeye even better than the two are separately. But that can only happen if we can invoke a response from the Team that manufactured these changes, and can find common ground within the mechanics. As Developers it's there job to listen to the community to make informed, responsible and fun decisions on the matter of Profession game play.

As Many have said, this change was not asked for in any regard, and evidence points to it taking aim at the Perma-Stealth Deadeye build used in WvW and SPvP. There are so many other routes they could of taken to curb this practice but they seemed to attempt a more complex and unneeded route to accomplish this. Sadly the results of the change have made Rifle less of a weapon than it use to be and harmed PvE for the Sake of PvP...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:When you look at this objectively his simply not true. P/P is in a better place since these changes.

No. We have lost the Malice boost to our damage output. The only way to use Malice now is to take the two cantrips that provide it. The net benefit of using those cantrips to stealth is a slight boost to skill #1 which allows the very same shot except for a VERY small amount of torment. There is no situation in which that is better than a round of Unload. P/P deadeyes lost the Malice damage output and gained nothing in return that we didn't already have.

This would be a very easy fix for Arenanet if they made the very same deadeye talent that gained you stealth when dodging with a rifle function on other weapons as well.

I have already rebutted that claim in detail.

Did you already have 10 percent damage from Iron sight without the need of Malice?Did you already have 1 percent added damage per boon?Did you already have a 7 INI refund of INI on reaching 7 malice?Did you already have 5 stacks torment with Sneak Attack? (In a p/p power build this some 2500 damage against a moving target)Did you already have the ability to reset Mali 7 using Sneak attack thus garnering another source of 7 ini + boons?

You get MORE Unloads now because you get More INI. The simple act of stealthing and attacking to flush your Malice will set you up for yet more unloads. Unload and build malice to seven. You get those boons and 7 ini. SMELD for stealth and sneak attack thus dumping your malice. You get the Torment damage and Mali recharges again and within less then 10 seconds you get another 7 ini plus those boons. You could not do that before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turk.5460 said:

@Anesco.8310 said:I think you notice two player types crystallizing out of here. Most people who don't play with rifles love the changes. Most people who play with a rifle don't like the changes. I don't want to take sides, but here ArenaNet would have to listen more to the players who play with a rifle. It's about sniper specialization. This is an elite specialization praised by the rifle. The advertisements of this specialization clearly showed the thief with a rifle. If these changes now make the gunplayers dissatisfied, Anet has done a bad job. Personally, I liked the gun-wearing thief as a sniper the way he was. It was about betting the mark and finding the right position and the right moment. If you don't like this way of playing, the thief gives enough other specializations to find something suitable. I think it is important that we gun-playing thieves continue to let ANet understand how dissatisfied this is for us. If not, ANet will certainly not change anything. ANet will wait for this little s...storm and then forget about the topic. So stay tuned and report your dissatisfaction via the forum.

I main Rifle and I love the changes.

I main Rifle and this is the worst thing ever done to an elite spec. Please rollback ty vm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@babazhook.6805 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:When you look at this objectively his simply not true. P/P is in a better place since these changes.

No. We have lost the Malice boost to our damage output. The only way to use Malice now is to take the two cantrips that provide it. The net benefit of using those cantrips to stealth is a slight boost to skill #1 which allows the very same shot except for a VERY small amount of torment. There is no situation in which that is better than a round of Unload. P/P deadeyes lost the Malice damage output and gained nothing in return that we didn't already have.

This would be a very easy fix for Arenanet if they made the very same deadeye talent that gained you stealth when dodging with a rifle function on other weapons as well.

I have already rebutted that claim in detail.

Did you already have 10 percent damage from Iron sight without the need of Malice?Did you already have 1 percent added damage per boon?Did you already have a 7 INI refund of INI on reaching 7 malice?Did you already have 5 stacks torment with Sneak Attack? (In a p/p power build this some 2500 damage against a moving target)Did you already have the ability to reset Mali 7 using Sneak attack thus garnering another source of 7 ini + boons?

You get MORE Unloads now because you get More INI. The simple act of stealthing and attacking to flush your Malice will set you up for yet more unloads. Unload and build malice to seven. You get those boons and 7 ini. SMELD for stealth and sneak attack thus dumping your malice. You get the Torment damage and Mali recharges again and within less then 10 seconds you get another 7 ini plus those boons. You could not do that before.

Maybe the dmg with P/P is higher, I don‘t know because I don‘t play P/P (if I‘m not forced through this patch...). And it‘s good for you if you like your P/P deadeye, really.But shouldn‘t DE offer a possibility to play rifle-DE as it was designed? Should it be all about P/P unload? Because at the moment it isn‘t fun to play with rifle at all. And I fear in two weeks everyone (= all the old rifle users) is running around with two pistols unloading the hell out of them. If you like this playstyle it‘s fine but i don‘t like the fact that you are forced to play like this. The Thief class will lose a big part of it‘s diversity just because of this patch and everyone else will start to complain about all the unload thiefs out there again (which is quite possible to end in a P/P DE nerf).

So don‘t get me wrong, I haven‘t a problem with P/P thiefs at all. I just think this are two separate discussions and if we mix them up we are lost in both of them...

I really hope some ANet devs see our problem and will at least change the rifle skills back, including stealth through kneeling and DJ.That wouldn‘t affect the P/P DE at all and the game would be much more diversified and fun to play again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, I dont get why people keep saying this " harmed PvE for the Sake of PvP..." This isnt about pvp or pve the new deadeye from what ive seen isnt even playable in pvp Its a complete hollow shell of anything deadeye used to be. this wasnt a PvP buff for rifle. This was just a "Head shot straight into the face of Dead-eye" It benefits literally only dagger-dagger thief's that are running the deadeye spec, and possibly the rifle users that never understood the class and Just ran around spamming 3 cause they didnt bother, even though dps is lower in all modes. But they would be wrong and as for D/D Deadeye's the changes only benefit them becuase it is something that just improves Core Theif/D/D because of new malice effects. The changes literally destroyed rifle deadeye and P/P deadeye as well as they have lost significant dps from malice downtime and no 21% damage increases by maintaining their Mark with M7 on targets to dish out their 2 shreds. I mained Deadeye in PvP and before this patch Hit I already knew I was going to have to resign my class as soon as I saw a WoodenPotatoes video in the sidebar of youtube about deadeye getting 'reworked' I knew it was going to be destroyed. That is what I have been forced to expect anytime ArenaNet "reworks" or "revamps" a class. I still tried to keep my head held up with high hopes that it may not be all bad, but as soon as I got on and tested it there was literally nothing left of rifle deadeye Its been inherently erased from being anything fun or effective Good job again Anet. (extreme levels of sarcasm) ..Guess Im going back to daredevil, hoping you wont "rework" that as well. It was fun to play something that cool, unique and well designed while it lasted I guess. ...I dont even post on the forums most of the time. But I couldn't be silent about this. Its a complete destruction of my favorite class you've ever designed, not a "rework" I'll hope you just change it back. ....But the smart part of me knows you wont.
Ill keep watching this thread rise in pages upon pages of overwhelming disappointment over this change. And I hope it never stops because its 100% justified.

R.I.P. Dead-eye...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Soo guys, Excelsior and good morning!The sun is shining', we have a public holiday here in Germany and the street in front of my apartment building is now quite because the district office on the other side of the street is closed today, too, makes me hearing the lovely sound of the birds even through the closed window. I feel very good, but still, these changed are utter crap still.

After browsing through the other languages (except the German one which was clear and simple), the feedback is 85% negative by a raw estimation. 10% like it, because they can now play their niche builds (e.g. primary pistol weapon users) on a profession that was never meant to do that. The other 5% are people that can go with it, or adapt to it.Amongst the 85% who hate it, several will quit the game over that, here in this thread we are three for example (two talking about WoW, I just about quitting and thinking to pull my Lalafell Blackmage out of retirement), more people, especially on the German boards, just said they will stop playing this profession.

These changes are widely not accepted well, and upsetting the vast majority of the samples (in other words: The forum users) is a clear indicator of how ad these changes are. And if amongst them are people that quit the entire game over it, meaning to also sacrifice the nice lore and intellectual property that comes with it. No, the game won't dying. But I am neither giving it my attention nor my money anymore.

As said in another topic, I work in a company that had plenty of staff a decade ago. We had staff that could care about detail work and getting our work done on a high level of quality. Now, we lost 25% of our staff, from 102 to 86. We are only running core services now. If something bad happened that day, we have to skip it, we have no time to look back, because our paid workhours are too precious to invest it in already completed things, no matter how shit these "completed things" are in the end result.Robert Gee's response in the bug thread is EXACTLY the company speech we also have to use. Imagine you walk up to Mr. O'Brien and say: "Sir, our team used paid worktime for the last weeks to fuck up remake Deadeye, but we messed up. Can we locate another couple of weeks into fixing it further".

What do you think your boss will say? Realistic scenarios:

  • "Oh, cool, you are open about your incompetence, well, here are your papers, we don't need people like you in our company" or
  • "What, NO! You have to do the other things we talked about! You have to make progress, the game does not stand still, so back to work, never look back!".
  • "Well, they are getting used to it. You will always disgruntle certain people with changes, but will attract others. Let it die out and move on".

And that is the reason why things won't be changed. They even admit with a macro-button response. They outright said: "The stealth system [we are forced to use in order to play the basic core of the profession/elitze specialization] is bugged and does not work and is to our disadvantage". The response: "We keep that in mind for further adjustments". "Adjustments??" That's like saying: "Officer, the bank there is being robbed!" and the police officer says: "Oh, you are right, the weather today is very nice, no clouds on the sky!"

I will NOT play this garbage. Even if I could try to adapt, I do not want to. A sniper that has to shoot you repeatedly is the very opposite of the entire, literally the WHOLE reason this elite was designed for, was advertised as (look at the promotion picture and video). First I was building malice to strike. If my target survived I would glide down (I was usually on a ledge and picking targets, as fragile as we are, that made sense too) and either gun him down with the pistols or stab them if there were multiple enemies. It worked so well with the theme of "stalking the enemies" (undertone of the profession description).

How do I stalk them when I have to permanently shoot them - WITH INITIATIVE SKILLS TOO!! - not even auto attacks. Because those bullets from the 2-round burst are so different from the auto attack bullets!!! (Not!) Oh, and I want to use my scope (Death's Judgement), I have to roll now for stealth. Wait, what? Yes! Didn't you know? Snipers do not kneel and wait to concentrate and wait for the right moment (listen to the voice lines we have, I can not remember them to say "LETS SPAZZ OUT", but more calm things that imply we are immobile and charging up for the perfect ("dead" in Deadeye, old for "definitive") shot. Now I would have to roll? Like in a friggin Spaghetti Western? TO FIRE A WELL-PLACED SHOT THROUGH A SCOPE, WE GOTTA ROLL AND THEN KNEEL?! Not sure, but when I do that, I get dizzy a bit. Not sure if you could even find the trigger, but people at Anet think so. I hope Robert Gee and his New Kids From the Block never carry a weapon.

So, after you rolled in order to aim (my god...) your malice resets. "Oh, you survived? Well then, I feel so much more relieved now. You've been marked for death, but hey, the Judgement of the Death (apparently a higher might) does not think so, so, how about being friends? Let's eat some Tacos together".

Shooting a target pepeatedly to gain malice is the very opposite of a Deadeye that is supposed to a hidden sniper (Sniper's Cover for example showed the original design of Deadeye was supporting my vision on the profession), but more of a bandit. Just like 1978's Ma Baker from Boney M. "FREEZ, I AM MA BAKER, PUT YOUR HANDS UP GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY". THEN I can undertand the pistol and dagger love. But please, call it "Robber" or "Bandit" or "Ma Baker profession" instead. The mark over a targets head and the sudden laser pointer were great. Not permanently gunfire (or stabs from a dagger, because, you know, a rifle profession gotta do that now!) where your opponents get easy attention on you.

Oh, and yes, again, give a profession that requires sight (eye of Deadeye = aim) and projectiles (rifle-based thief profession) a funky little smokescreen that blocks projectiles. I know it's against enemy projectiles, but DON'T YOU SEE HOW STUPID THAT IS? That's like giving a medic a first aid kit that consists of razor blades and damages you upon use. The immersion is zero. The thoughts put in is zero. The outcome is utter shit. (You know, since nothing changes, I can also just use all these words because my account lost its value over night)

IT IS SO WRONG ON ALL LEVELS!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of malice being used to power up the sneak attacks, and that the sneak attacks are their own thing so they can be balanced separately. That said;

1) Make malice give 1-2% damage per stack again, on top of the current iteration of iron sight. This will put damage back to where it was pre patch and mean sets without stealth access like P/P actually benefit from the spec as they used to.

2) Revert the changes to the master traits. Seriously, the new options are nowhere near as good as the old, and we have lost build diversity to make way for... 10% cdr on kill? Really?

3) If you're going to keep death's judgement the way it is, at least change that laughably bad smoke screen for a damaging skill so we're not forced to spam three round burst while waiting for malice. Either that or change malice to stack on autos as well, as right now malificent seven feels like a must to prevent running out of ini just to make the DJ possible.

The new stealth mechanic has it's pros and cons, so I won't comment, but these three things would make the spec feel way less goofy than it now does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I just got out of a Dungeon with my guild using my Deadeye. More specifically Ruined City of Arah Path 3, Forgotten Path. I ran Rifle/Pistol-Pistol the entire dungeon to test. And what I can say is, I hate using pistols for this. Sure they do a lot of damage, but they lack the same kind of fun of doing 10k-20k-30k Damage to your target in one blow.

Aside from that I did my best to use the rifle, like how Arena Net "Intends Us" to use it with this new awful FORCED play style.

First off, in a party of 5 with the current power scalings Elites go down very fast, so fast that they die many times before you reach Max Malice, and even if you do reach max malice you need to scramble and pop a stealth just to force it out. On Bosses it is a little easier cause they have even more HP, but even at that they still die so fast that you only get around 1 or 2 maybe 3 Deaths Judgements in per boss.

When we got to Giganticus Lupicus This is where I noticed a fatal flaw in this new system. You're so focused on generating Malice with Initiative, it takes your focus away from concentrating on the fight to every now and then peer down to look at your Malice to see how many more times you need to spam 2 round burst and 3 round burst to max it out. Then pop a Stealth that may or may not work depending on whether you're being attacked or not, Forget to reapply Mark cause you're so focused on generating malice, or accidentally revealing yourself cause you hit an enemy the wrong way or your in flight bullet reveals you when you dodge. But the last one is a very well known problem already.

This system ruins the streamlined focus of the old system where you knew it was just going to come by itself and you only had to look at your malice once to know how long it was going to take till it was ready. The New system literally takes a lot more micro-managing to play while trying to both survive, and damage your target effectively. So in other words, no this system does not make it easier to play Deadeye Mr. Robert Gee, it makes it harder due to another energy source besides Malice, and Endurance to Juggle with Initiative, congratulations you made Thief the first class in the game with 3 Energy bars the player actually has to pay attention to and micro manage all at once, all the while trying to play effectively while in combat.

It goes with out saying this takes all the fun out of the Deadeye, and wasn't a problem in the old setup. I rest my case here Mr. Gee and the Development team behind this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I dont see how any class game can play like an actual sniper, that is, stay and waiting for the opportune time to fire and at the same time expect to do decent damage. These players are probably just playing the PvP side of the game. From a PvE point of view every class has to rotate through their set of skills and fill in cooldown attacks with autos etc to reach reasonable benchmark numbers. Maybe what youre saying is the style of attack of death judgement is more to your taste than three round burst.

I dont use rifle, but after testing it out Im more inclined to pick it up because of a few changes: removal the kneel cooldown/charge mechanic which makes rifle a hell of a lot more mobile than it was; got rid of the extra ini cost of silent scope; initiative return from M7 makes rifle not feel initiative starved as it was. I think it they just boosted dmg somehow to atleast where it was prepatch a lot of players would be satisfied. I might even switch over from pistols too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"eldrjth.7384" said:Well I dont see how any class game can play like an actual sniper, that is, stay and waiting for the opportune time to fire and at the same time expect to do decent damage. These players are probably just playing the PvP side of the game. From a PvE point of view every class has to rotate through their set of skills and fill in cooldown attacks with autos etc to reach reasonable benchmark numbers. Maybe what youre saying is the style of attack of death judgement is more to your taste than three round burst.

I dont use rifle, but after testing it out Im more inclined to pick it up because of a few changes: removal the kneel cooldown/charge mechanic which makes rifle a hell of a lot more mobile than it was; got rid of the extra ini cost of silent scope; initiative return from M7 makes rifle not feel initiative starved as it was. I think it they just boosted dmg somehow to atleast where it was prepatch a lot of players would be satisfied. I might even switch over from pistols too.

We just had it before. And it worked. You gained malice over time, so you could care about other targets first. Your marked target had a big clue over his head and feed, and due to you not accelerating malice gain by directly opening fire and him or her, the built-up time was so long, long enough to counter the Deadeye. It was a perfect balance: You could either shoot because you were immobile (and had initiative left) or you moved around, being mobile, but had no initiative or just for one Death's Judgement.

Nobody with a sane mind can like the focus off the rife, and off the kneeling.

Look, the gameplay now is as retarded as this:

  • I mark a target.
  • I pull out pistols and unload it, getting malice.
  • I need to use "special bullets" because the auto attack bullets are not malice-worthy for some reason
  • My malice is up now - if I am not dead yet, because a fragile thief has to show himself in order gain malice (unlike before, over time with bonus damage IF you decided to put hands on your target and damage it)
  • "Oh wait, dear enemy, I will switch to my rifle". Then I stow away my pistols, getting my rifle out.
  • Now I need to get stalthed for no reason at all, usually by TUMBLING!!
  • Then I shoot my Death's Judgement.
  • Enemy survives.
  • "Oh wait, I lost all my malice. I gotta get angry at you, my marked target for death, again. Hold on!"
  • Pulls out Pistols again.
  • RATATATTATA unload pistols.
  • *HNGGGG! OKAY! I AM SO MAD AT YOU AGAIN WITH ALL THE MALICE!! But please wait until my weapon-switch cooldown is over so I can try another attempt using Death's Judgement on your, my dear target".
  • Waits 10 second weapon switch CD, using dodge all the time because I have to fill the downtime while trying to survive my opponent.
  • Has no dodge to enter stealth because of the aforementioned reason and. No need for kneeling in the first place.
  • Me: "Okay, you can go now. I marked you, but with my NERF® styrofoarm bullets I can't do anything and else I have no dodge or initiative or weapon-switch CD or one of the other 5,000 reasons why this profession is ridicously clunky. You are not malice-worthy enough. Please leave now, will ya?"
  • (Gets killed)

Before it was perfect:

  • I mark a target
  • I get malice over time, or sped up if getting a bit more furious. The enemy is informed about that all the time.
  • I am kneeled and retaining my initiative pool. Because of being immobile, I can...
  • ...fire two Death Judgements. Usually leaving the target dead or wounded and I finish them off or have to retreat by standing up again.

No need for rolls, no need for revealing myself with stabs and gunfire, no need to change weapons per se.

Nobody asked for this rework. Why did they do this BS?

EDIT: Fixed an error of me telling DJ needs initiative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"eldrjth.7384" said:Well I dont see how any class game can play like an actual sniper, that is, stay and waiting for the opportune time to fire and at the same time expect to do decent damage. These players are probably just playing the PvP side of the game. From a PvE point of view every class has to rotate through their set of skills and fill in cooldown attacks with autos etc to reach reasonable benchmark numbers. Maybe what youre saying is the style of attack of death judgement is more to your taste than three round burst.

I dont use rifle, but after testing it out Im more inclined to pick it up because of a few changes: removal the kneel cooldown/charge mechanic which makes rifle a hell of a lot more mobile than it was; got rid of the extra ini cost of silent scope; initiative return from M7 makes rifle not feel initiative starved as it was. I think it they just boosted dmg somehow to atleast where it was prepatch a lot of players would be satisfied. I might even switch over from pistols too.

This is kind of a separate issue from what you're talking about, but I just wanted to chime in on your first paragraph...I don't think you will be seeing any "Actual" snipers in this game, because PvP exists and the skills have to feel relatively same in both PvE and PvP... Which is ANET's words, not mine.

On the balance side of things, a long-ranged hard-hitter works in FPS games because everything is hands-on, the snipers aim(and predictions in some cases of bullet-velocity) has to be on point, and the target can take evasive maneuvers to make the shot harder for the sniper, but even then, in some cases, snipers routinely get flak and bans from tournaments in certain games because they are deemed "Too Powerful". In an MMORPG a stealth-sniper simply cannot be balanced because the first part is done for you.

So there's two ways to go about it to keep things fair in a PvP scenario, either it'll do tickle damage from afar, which is far from the one-shot sniper archetype, or you'll do major damage, but there'll be major tells for the opponent BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE, to keep things fair... Or, the other classes will have way stronger counter-measures to survive a potential one-shot burst (passives, etc).

The situation the Deadeye is and was in, is both of the above, in addition, GW2 has notoriously unreliable projectile pathing, where projectiles vanish out of thin air due to "unstable" terrain despite appearing like a flat field, which is best counteracted by hugging your opponent which defeats the entire purpose. This is admittedly a separate issue for making a stealthy burst-sniper viable and fair at the same time, but it muddles things nonetheless. GW2 is in a state of massive projectile hate in general, there's an abundance of sources for long-lasting projectile denial or reflects, and classes that don't bring these are rare.

Rifle Deadeye was used to some success in sPvP by dedicated players, so they got it to work, but they didn't really play it like the "Sniper archetype" everyone wants it to be, who waits and delivers a massive one-shot burst.

Because PvP exists, and you have to keep the gamemodes relatively fair (I am not implying that things are fair now) you won't be seeing this archetype in PvE unless ANET decides to make major splits between the two gamemodes to the point where the classes no longer feel the same in either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Specialka.7290" said:Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

Nonsense.This is all about how the profession feels. This random malice reset on your marked target is stupid as heck.If my target is alive and marked for death, the malice should stay. And not forcing me to tumble around like a drunk after a night in the pubs just to get into stealth just to shoot my signature skill.

And "to lack a little"? With the permanent reset of malice and removal of these?As a Rifle Deadeye all day (and before I used Dual Pistols before it was en vogue), I think I am more skilled just by that than the average player that cheese their way trough the game in zergs and with boons and people to help. The old Deadeye helped to play the solo'ist playstyle and survival, now it's just button mashing garbage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zedek.8932 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

Nonsense.This is all about how the profession feels. This random malice reset on your marked target is stupid as heck.If my target is alive and marked for death, the malice should stay. And not forcing me to tumble around like a drunk after a night in the pubs.

And "to lack a little"? With the permanent reset of malice and removal of these?As a Rifle Deadeye all day (and before I used Dual Pistols before it was en vogue), I think I am more skilled just by that than the average player that cheese their way trough the game in zergs and with boons and people to help. The old Deadeye helped to play the solo'ist playstyle and survival, now it's just button mashing garbage.

The old DD system was passive, bland, easy to use. Tag a target, wait or fire a little while waiting for max malice, then spam DJ ad nauseum.

DD feels far better now than it is far more dynamic to play.

Add the few tweaks I proposed and it will be fine.

Adapt or die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...