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An Eye on the Deadeye


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@"Specialka.7290" said:Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

Nonsense.This is all about how the profession feels. This random malice reset on your marked target is stupid as heck.If my target is alive and marked for death, the malice should stay. And not forcing me to tumble around like a drunk after a night in the pubs just to get into stealth just to shoot my signature skill.

And "to lack a little"? With the permanent reset of malice and removal of these?As a Rifle Deadeye all day (and before I used Dual Pistols before it was en vogue), I think I am more skilled just by that than the average player that cheese their way trough the game in zergs and with boons and people to help. The old Deadeye helped to play the solo'ist playstyle and survival, now it's just button mashing garbage.

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@Zedek.8932 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

Nonsense.This is all about how the profession feels. This random malice reset on your marked target is stupid as heck.If my target is alive and marked for death, the malice should stay. And not forcing me to tumble around like a drunk after a night in the pubs.

And "to lack a little"? With the permanent reset of malice and removal of these?As a Rifle Deadeye all day (and before I used Dual Pistols before it was en vogue), I think I am more skilled just by that than the average player that cheese their way trough the game in zergs and with boons and people to help. The old Deadeye helped to play the solo'ist playstyle and survival, now it's just button mashing garbage.

The old DD system was passive, bland, easy to use. Tag a target, wait or fire a little while waiting for max malice, then spam DJ ad nauseum.

DD feels far better now than it is far more dynamic to play.

Add the few tweaks I proposed and it will be fine.

Adapt or die.

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@"Specialka.7290" said:The old DD system was passive, bland, easy to use. Tag a target, wait or fire a little while waiting for max malice, then spam DJ ad nauseum.

DD feels far better now than it is far more dynamic to play.

Add the few tweaks I proposed and it will be fine.

Adapt or die.

It made perfect sense and it was NOT passive, since you could decide to either be immobile and "quiet" and gain slow malice which increased the time window for your enemy that is informed about that he is being marked all the time - or you put hands on it and attacked your target, increasing malice, but leaving you with either less initiative or no at all, so you could not profit from Malice in DJ, but a light boost on other skills.

Dynamic = Button mashing. A sniper profession is not supposed to be "dynamic", and with "dynamic" you mean to either switch weapons or to be pidgehonholed into a weaeponset. Wow, very dynamic by taking away choices. Or, of course, you like to use daggers on a Deadeye as main weapon and just switch to Rifle to dodge roll into stealth use your glorified auto attack and getting your malice reset. GJ, that's fun and makes totally sense design-wise! (/s)

Your tweaks won't be fine because the entire malice is busted right now. DJ is a glorified auto attack that feels so detached. How am I even supposed to dodge roll on a ledge - where I used to snipe down from?!

People like you seem to force your Core/Daredevil/Niche gameplay into Deadeye and are now happy. Of course you do not mind the entire profession being turned around by 180°, the images, the videos, the promotions, heck even the description on the website do not match anymore. Nobody could be fine with that.

Adapt or die? If the game company wants people to "die" and not playing their game anymore, they pretty much failed at what they were doing.So that argument is just as invalid.

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You do realize they won't revert back?

And yes, before the patch, it was passive. Mark a target, wait to gain malice (since you needed to do nothing to gain it), fire away. How do you call that?

And it is not the first time a video game company does an overhaul of game mecanics that does not please ppl. And overall, it is always the discontent that have a loud voice, especially on forum. That is why you should take into account what you can see on these boards.

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@Specialka.7290 said:Lots of bad players around here honestly. You can't check how many malice you have and care for your surroundings? Is this your first mmo?

They just need to tweak the roll to reliably get stealth out of it, make that malice build on yourself and not your target so you can switch target easily or if the target dies too quickly(since they copy pasted the rogue from Wow, they could have fullt done it), and maybe tweak a little the damage for rifle since it seems to lack a little.

Obviously, the new malice system is far better than the previous one which was boring and bland.

This is all i want to say. new malice system is FAR BETTER THAN the previous one .

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@"Specialka.7290" said:And yes, before the patch, it was passive. Mark a target, wait to gain malice (since you needed to do nothing to gain it), fire away. How do you call that?

it was partially passive before the rework. while you can mark something and wait for it, attacking the marked target with anything (even autos) will make malice generate faster. so if anything you still had some control over malice generation with the older system.

they haven't updated the wiki yet to reflect the rework as of this writing so here you go:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malice_(effect)

sbFGcHs.jpg

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The problem for me is that the new "dynamic" rifle DE is like a smaller and weaker version of P/P unload thief, and I think we don't need two of them (again no offence against P/P thiefs, everyone should play his role). But with this changes you take away the choice between the silent sniper and the dynamic P/P thief because there is only one left; the "dynamic" unload/round burst spammer.Beside this I still have no idea why they had to change the rifle skills? This has nothing to do with dynamic ot not dynamic, the new smoke wall is everything else than dynamic...

And adapt or die has always two sides: If the game isn't able to adapt to a big part of the playerbase (or at least to the base of a specific specialisation), it will die either.If the DE players decide to leave GW 2 because of the patch, that won't hurt the game that much because there are several other classes and their players. But if ANet lets die the DE playerbase and doesn't care about the complains at all, other classes will follow in other patches for sure. It's normal that they can't always deliver the perfect game at the first try, but then even more it's important to listen to the playerbase. Of course you can't care about every single opinion but I think this thread shows that this patch does not bother only a small part of the rifle DE players. And then it's maybe time to accept not all changes were that good (especially the mess with the rifle skills -.-).

It's all about how ANet will deal with the criticism - just ignore it or try to find a solution for everyone. But I'm still hoping because I liked the game a lot over the last years.

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@Specialka.7290 said:I do know that, I played with DD before and after the patch. Overall, the Rifle DD was passive. Build up malice with time (little speeding up the process with attacking), then spam Dj all the way to the death of your target. Very engaging gameplay.

sniper archetype gameplay though was rarely ever engaging especially in FPS games unless you are met with a counter-sniper trading shots with you from far away. usually as a sniper you just sit and hit from afar rarely ever moving or only moving if you've been discovered. snipers dont roll left and right before hitting their targets unless the enemies are closing in really fast (which you already do with the previous DE to avoid mechanics sometimes you even had to cancel kneel to reposition far away if the boss got too close so it'll aggro someone else) so yeah to me the old DE gameplay, despite having a mind numbing 2 button sustain rotation (spamming 1 then hitting 4 once you get enough INI for a DJ - and yes we didn't spam 4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4 like what some people imply), was fine because i chose to play a sniper and not rambo doing 3 or 2 round bursts dodging left and right.

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@Specialka.7290 said:The new smoke wall is imo for pvp, so ppl can either close the distance so you can shoot them all the way to melee or flee.

Btw, players that comes to forums are like 5% of the playerbase (maybe even less).

I play more pvp than pve and can see no reason for this smoke screen; if you get attacked from range you dodge and go to stealth (-> much more dynamic).

Yes that's right of course, I don't want and can't speak for all the players out there but ratio of players which don't like the patch and the ones who really like it (rifle DE) should be more or less representative I think. And there are many people who wrote normally they just accept the nerfs but not this time because the changes are so bad. I think this should tell us something...

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@"Specialka.7290" said:I do know that, I played with DD before and after the patch. Overall, the Rifle DD was passive. Build up malice with time (little speeding up the process with attacking), then spam Dj all the way to the death of your target. Very engaging gameplay.

Yeeeeah... Like small, 2 times faster rate of gianing it and with proper trait you had option to even speed this more: mark->kneel (stelath)->attack (bonus malice from stealth attack)->shadow melt to reset revealed->another stealth attack for malice gain... Like no controll at all, totally passive (like me being "passive aggresive" with this post).

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@AfroMetal.5394 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:I do know that, I played with DD before and after the patch. Overall, the Rifle DD was passive. Build up malice with time (little speeding up the process with attacking), then spam Dj all the way to the death of your target. Very engaging gameplay.

Yeeeeah... Like small, 2 times faster rate of gianing it and with proper trait you had option to even speed this more: mark->kneel (stelath)->attack (bonus malice from stealth attack)->shadow melt to reset revealed->another stealth attack for malice gain... Like no controll at all, totally passive (like me being "passive aggresive" with this post).

Well, that means you have no issue with current malice system then, great :)

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I don't think the 39,8 K views of this thread come from all the happy rifle DEs out there. And since GW 2 is (more or less) free to play, most players don't really care about the patch and just change to another game if they don't like it anymore.

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I think the change to DJ was done purely for consistency in wanting to have the malice spender on a stealth attack, even if said attack reveals you before it even goes off :P.

I would be in favor of reverting just the DJ position back to where it was and have it consume malice in addition to whatever they decide to put as a stealth attack.

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@ShadowAgent.6053 said:I would be in favor of reverting just the DJ position back to where it was and have it consume malice in addition to whatever they decide to put as a stealth attack.

Why would they do that? As long as my target is marked for death and is not dead yet, the malice should stay.You do not scrap the core mechanics after 8 months for no reason.

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@Specialka.7290 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:I do know that, I played with DD before and after the patch. Overall, the Rifle DD was passive. Build up malice with time (little speeding up the process with attacking), then spam Dj all the way to the death of your target. Very engaging gameplay.

Yeeeeah... Like small, 2 times faster rate of gianing it and with proper trait you had option to even speed this more: mark->kneel (stelath)->attack (bonus malice from stealth attack)->shadow melt to reset revealed->another stealth attack for malice gain... Like no controll at all, totally passive (like me being "passive aggresive" with this post).

Well, that means you have no issue with current malice system then, great :)

Haha ha... To be honest - at this moment I can only say no. They introduced an interesting idea, I have to admit at least that, but at the moment it is too complicated and at the same moment too braindead to play as rifle deadeye at least comparing it to other classes. The more interesting and engaging style that should usually bring more dps (doing sth harder - dps rotation here - provides better rewards) is clunky, subpar to previous one (not even mentioning other power based dps classes), unreliable (bugs and minor QoL improvements would be nice) and drains too much of resources, that it literally kills usage of DJ in almost any pve enocounter/type. When I tested max output of DJ build on golem (special forces training area) I could get sth roughly around 12/13k dps as a solo character (no foodbuffs at the moment of tests and I go by zerk/valkyria mix that gives me around 100% crit chance while kneeling). And it was the best I could get after checking few possible trait combinations. What was funny is that I belive with full buffs existing in game my dps rose to breathtaking (sth around) 15k dps? Maybe if I tried something more I could squeeze few hundreds more dps, maybe even 1 or 2k more, but I got totally heartbroken by results that I had to stop so I can cool down.Then I went braindead'y build focused around TRB... With full buffs I got sth around 23k dps (remember, no food, mixed set, also bloodloust sigil not stacked, could get sth better for more dps), there are ppl that say they can get up to 26k. No use of malice whatsoever (new DJ) with changing build slightly made my dps much better, but still subpar with possibilities that gave the previous one (even with non meta build I could get more and with meta build old rifle could get to sth around 31k dps?). Still people doing raids says that standard is 34k+ at least for power based dps classes.Sooo, to be honest, I don't know if even granting twice the bonus (not 20% but 40% per malice for DJ) would bring DJ centered build to compete (dps wisely, because if we take safety into consideration then dodging all around for dps is not necessarily the safest thing to do) with braindead style of play not even mentioning standards for dps classes.

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@Zedek.8932 said:

@ShadowAgent.6053 said:I would be in favor of reverting just the DJ position back to where it was and have it consume malice in addition to whatever they decide to put as a stealth attack.

Why would they do that? As long as my target is marked for death and is not dead yet, the malice should stay.You do not scrap the core mechanics after 8 months for no reason.

I mean, I just like the new system better in principle. Implementation does need more work tho imo on all weapon sets. I can see how if they just put DJ back at 4, but keep the need to constantly build malice it would just cause initiative problems again.

Genereally I feel that malice should behave differently depending on the weapon set, however I think that asking for a second rework is a lost battle. I also suspect that reverting everything back to the old system is going to have a negative reaction, since some weapon sets perform better with the new system, even with the gameplay/flow issues.

From a personal point of view, this update made DE better for me in every way regarding performance in open world and instanced content (PvE). This is with my playstyle, my choice of gear and etc. in mind. However I understand that some people fell in love with the spec due to its original implementation and playstyle (main conduit here being the rifle I'm guessing) in PvE, PvP and WvW. So if most are like you and feel a revert is needed, then so be it, I don't have a problem with that.

My vote is keep the current system, but change the way malice interacts with the weapons (gave a more detailed post in the malice generation feedback thread).

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@"ShadowAgent.6053" said:I mean, I just like the new system better in principle. Implementation does need more work tho imo on all weapon sets. I can see how if they just put DJ back at 4, but keep the need to constantly build malice it would just cause initiative problems again.

How come? How does that make sense?Malice was tied to marking a target for death.

Now I get angry at a target, just to fire one special bullet with a totally retarded stipulation (stealth, using our precious dodges), it survives and all of my malice is gone while it's still marked for death? As said before, the current system is not "malice", it's the pure defintion of sadism. You get satisfaction for repeatedly shooting or hurting a person ending in a climax, and then you restart.

This is terrible bullocks, has nothing to do with Deadeye. Nothing. I can't "harass my enemy from a distance" if I have to get into 900 range, or going full melee on Daggers, or having to dodge on a small ledge I used to kneel. I repeat: The target had a huge clue, and if you just kept silent, the malice gain was super slow. If you showed yourself and attacked, it went up faster. Then you could fire two shots while kneeling and if your enemy survived then, you could finish them off or retreat.

Now I am supposed to circle dance around my enemy in order to get malice which leaves counterplay, then I use my dodge which is another counterplay to get into kneel - counterplay - just to shoot ONE ridiculously week, glorified auto attack. Sorry, this bullshit is wrong on all levels.

It might suit your style, but I know that Rifle Deadeye was a super, super rare spec. I saw in my entire time, I shit you not, ONE, einen, 1, other Deadeye. Because people like you and others want it to dash around and mash buttons. But this is not what Deadeye has been released at, advertised at, etc. Look at the description, at the picture, at the trailer. Nothing of that has remained.

I would be glad if you guys that are now happy go back to the elite or core that is supposed to be yours. But this bastardized gunslinger spazz-out button mash nonsense is not the safe snipe gameplay. Not only did aNet quit the game for me succesfully, but also removed any way for a solo player - that was underperforming already, but admitted that, because Rifle DE was and still IS a joke compared to the others - to survive. I enjoyed Rifle DE until this abomination of "ideas" of Mr. Gee, so did I do with this game. I am right now spending my time finding me a new MMORPG. It's incredibly heartbreaking. After fucking up Engineer and Scrapper, aNet destroys my next class.

It's insane how fast my hate towards this company increased, 1 week ago I'd have jumped through burning hoops, but when I see how loosely they keep care of their game and turn solid and fine things 180° around for no reason - did anyone asked for this garbage? - I wonder what BS they would come up with next time. I WOULD create a Necromancer, but seeing that class is being cried over, I do not start another character just to be turned into a 1960s flower-picking hippie or something when I got used to it. Or a sign spinner.

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@Zedek.8932 said:

@"ShadowAgent.6053" said:I mean, I just like the new system better in principle. Implementation does need more work tho imo on all weapon sets. I can see how if they just put DJ back at 4, but keep the need to constantly build malice it would just cause initiative problems again.

How come? How does that make sense?Malice was tied to marking a target for death.

Now I get angry at a target, just to fire one special bullet with a totally kitten stipulation (stealth, using our precious dodges), it survives and all of my malice is gone while it's still marked for death? As said before, the current system is not "malice", it's the pure defintion of sadism. You get satisfaction for repeatedly shooting or hurting a person ending in a climax, and then you restart.

This is terrible bullocks, has nothing to do with Deadeye. Nothing. I can't "harass my enemy from a distance" if I have to get into 900 range, or going full melee on Daggers, or having to dodge on a small ledge I used to kneel. I repeat: The target had a huge clue, and if you just kept silent, the malice gain was super slow. If you showed yourself and attacked, it went up faster. Then you could fire two shots while kneeling and if your enemy survived then, you could finish them off or retreat.

Now I am supposed to circle dance around my enemy in order to get malice which leaves counterplay, then I use my dodge which is another counterplay to get into kneel - counterplay - just to shoot ONE ridiculously week, glorified auto attack. Sorry, this kitten is wrong on all levels.

It might suit your style, but I know that Rifle Deadeye was a super, super rare spec. I saw in my entire time, I kitten you not, ONE, einen, 1, other Deadeye. Because people like you and others want it to dash around and mash buttons. But this is not what Deadeye has been released at, advertised at, etc. Look at the description, at the picture, at the trailer. Nothing of that has remained.

I would be glad if you guys that are now happy go back to the elite or core that is supposed to be yours. But this bastardized gunslinger spazz-out button mash nonsense is not the safe snipe gameplay. Not only did aNet quit the game for me succesfully, but also removed any way for a solo player - that was underperforming already, but admitted that, because Rifle DE was and still IS a joke compared to the others - to survive. I enjoyed Rifle DE until this abomination of "ideas" of Mr. Gee, so did I do with this game. I am right now spending my time finding me a new MMORPG. It's incredibly heartbreaking. After kitten up Engineer and Scrapper, aNet destroys my next class.

It's insane how fast my hate towards this company increased, 1 week ago I'd have jumped through burning hoops, but when I see how loosely they keep care of their game and turn solid and fine things 180° around for no reason - did anyone asked for this garbage? - I wonder what BS they would come up with next time. I WOULD create a Necromancer, but seeing that class is being cried over, I do not start another character just to be turned into a 1960s flower-picking hippie or something when I got used to it. Or a sign spinner.

Okay dude. You seriously wait 21 seconds to take down every single target in pve? A group of spiders and 2 minutes later and they're all dead while you fly off into the distance! A few things. Firstly if the enemy cannot reach you their health will regenerate and they will ignore you. Most ledges cause this. Maybe you can pull off a kill but is that enjoyable? More like assisted suicide. Plus the fact anything vet or above is gonna chew the shot and spit it out, forcing you to spam which you can do a max of three times, which will kill the glassier ones accompanied by a mob, thirsty for vengeance and now you can't even kneel again for a while. Unless you spend your whole time in I dunno Queensdale. You'd feel pretty powerful there I guess....You talk about stalking targets in other posts. This isn't Hitman, or Dishonered. Enemies either stand still or walk in a circle. There is no stalking. Unless you're talking about Wvw, where anyone slightly versed knows they being stalked making the situation comedic rather than cool.

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It's a fact that not everyone hate Dead Eye, the changes in my opinion is acceptable since it trade the old method (Full malice DJ spam remember,yes it's not 4 4 4 4 4 4 4... but you still gonna end up mashing button for DJ in the end) for a concept that actually has more branch than it was (Acro can replace trickery + DE/Crit, M7 are actually viable talent for other weapon rather than BqBd all day,etc).

Indeed this change is also got some flaw like low DJ damage especially at PvE (current number is ok back then since you can spam the skill all day), clunky sniper scope stealth-reveal mechanic, unreliable malice gain @ PvP because you got punished even more than old patch when your target ran away. Heck, i even think that bonus initiative at max stack should apply to other trait than M7 to give option for other player to experiment their own initiative-spamming build that become the trademark of Deadeye trait.

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@Specialka.7290 said:

@"Ryans.9571" said:Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

Well, I find the specs more fun now than before the patch because it is far more dynamic to play. So to each its own.

Well it's not "to each their own" because the change is forced, it's not an option to play it one way or the other lol

Couldn't the devs have made changes that altered malice and rifle skills through traits? A sub-spec line? Rather than tear down things they made that people find fun and just replace them with new things, they could just add the new things and players can decide which gameplay is more fun?

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@Aistos.5174 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:When you look at this objectively his simply not true. P/P is in a better place since these changes.

No. We have lost the Malice boost to our damage output. The only way to use Malice now is to take the two cantrips that provide it. The net benefit of using those cantrips to stealth is a slight boost to skill #1 which allows the very same shot except for a VERY small amount of torment. There is no situation in which that is better than a round of Unload. P/P deadeyes lost the Malice damage output and gained nothing in return that we didn't already have.

This would be a very easy fix for Arenanet if they made the very same deadeye talent that gained you stealth when dodging with a rifle function on other weapons as well.

I have already rebutted that claim in detail.

Did you already have 10 percent damage from Iron sight without the need of Malice?Did you already have 1 percent added damage per boon?Did you already have a 7 INI refund of INI on reaching 7 malice?Did you already have 5 stacks torment with Sneak Attack? (In a p/p power build this some 2500 damage against a moving target)Did you already have the ability to reset Mali 7 using Sneak attack thus garnering another source of 7 ini + boons?

You get MORE Unloads now because you get More INI. The simple act of stealthing and attacking to flush your Malice will set you up for yet more unloads. Unload and build malice to seven. You get those boons and 7 ini. SMELD for stealth and sneak attack thus dumping your malice. You get the Torment damage and Mali recharges again and within less then 10 seconds you get another 7 ini plus those boons. You could not do that before.

Maybe the dmg with P/P is higher, I don‘t know because I don‘t play P/P (if I‘m not forced through this patch...). And it‘s good for you if you like your P/P deadeye, really.But shouldn‘t DE offer a possibility to play rifle-DE as it was designed? Should it be all about P/P unload? Because at the moment it isn‘t fun to play with rifle at all. And I fear in two weeks everyone (= all the old rifle users) is running around with two pistols unloading the hell out of them. If you like this playstyle it‘s fine but i don‘t like the fact that you are forced to play like this. The Thief class will lose a big part of it‘s diversity just because of this patch and everyone else will start to complain about all the unload thiefs out there again (which is quite possible to end in a P/P DE nerf).

So don‘t get me wrong, I haven‘t a problem with P/P thiefs at all. I just think this are two separate discussions and if we mix them up we are lost in both of them...

I really hope some ANet devs see our problem and will at least change the rifle skills back, including stealth through kneeling and DJ.That wouldn‘t affect the P/P DE at all and the game would be much more diversified and fun to play again.

When we are discussing the DE spec we are discussing ALL the weaponsets and it important , for the sake of balance that we do not lump in the propblems with Rifle in with everything else. I am not suggesting it all about p/p unload. I am pointing out that P/P saw net gains here, contrary to claims made just as P/d did and d/d did. This topic is "an eye on the deadeye" and when we are speaking about the deadeye it NOT just the rifle anymore then daredevil just about the staff. It was not me that claimed P/P was nerfed by this change. It was another and I responded to him.

I would suggest for the sake of accuracy that if people want to talk about issues with DE rifle then the Topic be labeled DE Rifle and we talk just about DE rifle there. The majority of changes happened to th TRAITS and utilities inside the DE spec and when we discuss those changes we have to acknowledge all of the other weaponsets that prosper or suffer by those changes.

To the RIFLE spec itself , if there indeed issues outside a small few traits that might need a relook (which again would affect other weapons as well) such as PAYBACK , Burst of shadows and perhaps BqoBk , most of the fixes should come from the Rifle skills themself and or how the singular trait of the new Silent scope interacts.

Far too many posts rely on hyperbole with claims like a build "unviable" or "all junk" or "we got nothing" under the meme that it we whine louder about EVERYTHING it becomes closer to the reality.

It was not too long ago that people were claiming the entire DE spec sucked and was garbage and unplayable. Rifle itself saw a small handful of changes but people were claiming it as trash. I always find it interesting as to how something claimed as trash tier suddenly becomes this holy grail that must be defended at all costs.

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