An Eye on the Deadeye

Leo G.4501 · May 10, 2018

@Curennos.9307 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:Can we give backstab and DJ the Blurred Frenzy treatment and buff the hell out of those two skills in pve? It'd be a nice dps boost and an easy split. Then fix the irritating thing with the stealth on dodge and see where we're at then?
I get that some people really liked the previous incarnation of Malice - I liked how the dmg increase applied to all my attacks, too. But let's be honest, the whole 'stalking' thing was horribly unfun to play against. YOU may have fun marking someone, then waiting for malice to build or w/e, then smashing your opponent, but it's an awful pvp mechanic.
Pve wise, they definitely need some love, but I'm not quite sure why there are some people complaining that...they have to use a core profession mechanic? Maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly - I found DE in pve to be utterly, mindnumbingly boring before. Now it's kinda mildly more interesting because I'm rewarded more for making good use of stealth, but you certainly don't see me complaining that I have to use shade skills for scourge to be effective, shroud for a reaper/core necro, or that playing a class involves...playing that class.
ANet could also stand to sprinkle some more stealth access around tbh. I run dp/rifle in all game modes, but I feel bad for those who wanted to move away from rifle, stealth utilities (could of the stealth utilities could maybe do with some fenangling - lower cooldown, lower stealth duration, yadday adda), etc. There definitely is a difference between being able to easily access stealth and not doing so, and just having to sacrifice far too much to get stealth (say...a sword/SB setup or something)

I understand your viewpoint but, killing an entire mechanic just to fix one build that could have been easily fixed in another manner without breaking the Malice system to the point it only benefits a select few who are willing to conform to that style of play is ludicrous. Also it's not just some of the players it's a good majority of the Deadeye player base. Or if anything the ones who love and understand the rifle, which again is the majority of the Deadeye player base.

Simply buffing the stealth skills won't solve the underlying problem of the Specialization itself.

I wouldn't presume to guess the statistics of the change. All the teefs I know have been loving the changes. That certainly doesn't mean that others who have groups of friends/guilds with teefs hating the change are invalid, but...their exp doesn't invalidate mine, and vice versa.

This isn't a debate about your experience vs another, it's about the terms and conditions that facilitate change. Because you could very well be on the opposite side of the fence the next time Anet decides to change something drastically, and then where do you argue from? Would you contradict yourself or support the change even at the detriment of yourself and others?

Specialka.7290 · May 10, 2018

They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.

It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

Curennos.9307 · May 10, 2018

@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:Can we give backstab and DJ the Blurred Frenzy treatment and buff the hell out of those two skills in pve? It'd be a nice dps boost and an easy split. Then fix the irritating thing with the stealth on dodge and see where we're at then?
I get that some people really liked the previous incarnation of Malice - I liked how the dmg increase applied to all my attacks, too. But let's be honest, the whole 'stalking' thing was horribly unfun to play against. YOU may have fun marking someone, then waiting for malice to build or w/e, then smashing your opponent, but it's an awful pvp mechanic.
Pve wise, they definitely need some love, but I'm not quite sure why there are some people complaining that...they have to use a core profession mechanic? Maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly - I found DE in pve to be utterly, mindnumbingly boring before. Now it's kinda mildly more interesting because I'm rewarded more for making good use of stealth, but you certainly don't see me complaining that I have to use shade skills for scourge to be effective, shroud for a reaper/core necro, or that playing a class involves...playing that class.
ANet could also stand to sprinkle some more stealth access around tbh. I run dp/rifle in all game modes, but I feel bad for those who wanted to move away from rifle, stealth utilities (could of the stealth utilities could maybe do with some fenangling - lower cooldown, lower stealth duration, yadday adda), etc. There definitely is a difference between being able to easily access stealth and not doing so, and just having to sacrifice far too much to get stealth (say...a sword/SB setup or something)

I understand your viewpoint but, killing an entire mechanic just to fix one build that could have been easily fixed in another manner without breaking the Malice system to the point it only benefits a select few who are willing to conform to that style of play is ludicrous. Also it's not just some of the players it's a good majority of the Deadeye player base. Or if anything the ones who love and understand the rifle, which again is the majority of the Deadeye player base.

Simply buffing the stealth skills won't solve the underlying problem of the Specialization itself.

I wouldn't presume to guess the statistics of the change. All the teefs I know have been loving the changes. That certainly doesn't mean that others who have groups of friends/guilds with teefs hating the change are invalid, but...their exp doesn't invalidate mine, and vice versa.

This isn't a debate about your experience vs another, it's about the terms and conditions that facilitate change. Because you could very well be on the opposite side of the fence the next time Anet decides to change something drastically, and then where do you argue from? Would you contradict yourself or support the change even at the detriment of yourself and others?

The paragraph below the one that's showing in your quote is extremely relevant. I never made it about personal experience - it was an example to prove a point when I addressed their usage of 'everyone who loves rifle' and all that jazz. I do disagree with anet's REASON for doing this...but I have very little against the results - malice pre-change was...dare I say it, extremely simple. IIRC they said they changed it because it was too hard to understand, which I found absolutely bamboozling. I found it boring and too easy to understand/work with.

I'm more interested in the game-related aspects of the change, but I freely acknowledge that the change came out of left field.

Edit: Checked my posts and I see exactly one thumbs up for both. Mystery fellow, who are you? Enlighten me to your presence O.o

Leo G.4501 · May 10, 2018

@Curennos.9307 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:Can we give backstab and DJ the Blurred Frenzy treatment and buff the hell out of those two skills in pve? It'd be a nice dps boost and an easy split. Then fix the irritating thing with the stealth on dodge and see where we're at then?
I get that some people really liked the previous incarnation of Malice - I liked how the dmg increase applied to all my attacks, too. But let's be honest, the whole 'stalking' thing was horribly unfun to play against. YOU may have fun marking someone, then waiting for malice to build or w/e, then smashing your opponent, but it's an awful pvp mechanic.
Pve wise, they definitely need some love, but I'm not quite sure why there are some people complaining that...they have to use a core profession mechanic? Maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly - I found DE in pve to be utterly, mindnumbingly boring before. Now it's kinda mildly more interesting because I'm rewarded more for making good use of stealth, but you certainly don't see me complaining that I have to use shade skills for scourge to be effective, shroud for a reaper/core necro, or that playing a class involves...playing that class.
ANet could also stand to sprinkle some more stealth access around tbh. I run dp/rifle in all game modes, but I feel bad for those who wanted to move away from rifle, stealth utilities (could of the stealth utilities could maybe do with some fenangling - lower cooldown, lower stealth duration, yadday adda), etc. There definitely is a difference between being able to easily access stealth and not doing so, and just having to sacrifice far too much to get stealth (say...a sword/SB setup or something)

I understand your viewpoint but, killing an entire mechanic just to fix one build that could have been easily fixed in another manner without breaking the Malice system to the point it only benefits a select few who are willing to conform to that style of play is ludicrous. Also it's not just some of the players it's a good majority of the Deadeye player base. Or if anything the ones who love and understand the rifle, which again is the majority of the Deadeye player base.

Simply buffing the stealth skills won't solve the underlying problem of the Specialization itself.

I wouldn't presume to guess the statistics of the change. All the teefs I know have been loving the changes. That certainly doesn't mean that others who have groups of friends/guilds with teefs hating the change are invalid, but...their exp doesn't invalidate mine, and vice versa.

This isn't a debate about your experience vs another, it's about the terms and conditions that facilitate change. Because you could very well be on the opposite side of the fence the next time Anet decides to change something drastically, and then where do you argue from? Would you contradict yourself or support the change even at the detriment of yourself and others?

The paragraph below the one that's showing in your quote is extremely relevant. I never made it about personal experience - it was an example to prove a point when I addressed their usage of 'everyone who loves rifle' and all that jazz. I do disagree with anet's REASON for doing this...but I have very little against the results - malice pre-change was...dare I say it, extremely simple. IIRC they said they changed it because it was too hard to understand, which I found absolutely bamboozling. I found it boring and too easy to understand/work with.

What I fear is that they didn't change it for the reasons stated (your recollection is correct, they said it was "bland" and traits "conflicted" and malic interaction was too "complex") but rather just to balance an aspect of the game that was out of hand (the stealth camping Deadeye deathsquads in WvW, perhaps).

That's even worse practice than changing things on a whim.

Also, I know they have test server publishing capabilities...

Curennos.9307 · May 10, 2018

@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:Can we give backstab and DJ the Blurred Frenzy treatment and buff the hell out of those two skills in pve? It'd be a nice dps boost and an easy split. Then fix the irritating thing with the stealth on dodge and see where we're at then?
I get that some people really liked the previous incarnation of Malice - I liked how the dmg increase applied to all my attacks, too. But let's be honest, the whole 'stalking' thing was horribly unfun to play against. YOU may have fun marking someone, then waiting for malice to build or w/e, then smashing your opponent, but it's an awful pvp mechanic.
Pve wise, they definitely need some love, but I'm not quite sure why there are some people complaining that...they have to use a core profession mechanic? Maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly - I found DE in pve to be utterly, mindnumbingly boring before. Now it's kinda mildly more interesting because I'm rewarded more for making good use of stealth, but you certainly don't see me complaining that I have to use shade skills for scourge to be effective, shroud for a reaper/core necro, or that playing a class involves...playing that class.
ANet could also stand to sprinkle some more stealth access around tbh. I run dp/rifle in all game modes, but I feel bad for those who wanted to move away from rifle, stealth utilities (could of the stealth utilities could maybe do with some fenangling - lower cooldown, lower stealth duration, yadday adda), etc. There definitely is a difference between being able to easily access stealth and not doing so, and just having to sacrifice far too much to get stealth (say...a sword/SB setup or something)

I understand your viewpoint but, killing an entire mechanic just to fix one build that could have been easily fixed in another manner without breaking the Malice system to the point it only benefits a select few who are willing to conform to that style of play is ludicrous. Also it's not just some of the players it's a good majority of the Deadeye player base. Or if anything the ones who love and understand the rifle, which again is the majority of the Deadeye player base.

Simply buffing the stealth skills won't solve the underlying problem of the Specialization itself.

I wouldn't presume to guess the statistics of the change. All the teefs I know have been loving the changes. That certainly doesn't mean that others who have groups of friends/guilds with teefs hating the change are invalid, but...their exp doesn't invalidate mine, and vice versa.

This isn't a debate about your experience vs another, it's about the terms and conditions that facilitate change. Because you could very well be on the opposite side of the fence the next time Anet decides to change something drastically, and then where do you argue from? Would you contradict yourself or support the change even at the detriment of yourself and others?

The paragraph below the one that's showing in your quote is extremely relevant. I never made it about personal experience - it was an example to prove a point when I addressed their usage of 'everyone who loves rifle' and all that jazz. I do disagree with anet's REASON for doing this...but I have very little against the results - malice pre-change was...dare I say it, extremely simple. IIRC they said they changed it because it was too hard to understand, which I found absolutely bamboozling. I found it boring and too easy to understand/work with.

What I fear is that they didn't change it for the reasons stated (your recollection is correct, they said it was "bland" and traits "conflicted" and malic interaction was too "complex") but rather just to balance an aspect of the game that was out of hand (the stealth camping Deadeye deathsquads in WvW, perhaps).

That's even worse practice than changing things on a whim.

Also, I know they have test server publishing capabilities...

Eh, fair, if a bit...conspiracy theory for my taste. I highly doubt anet would go through that much trouble just for one setup when they could've done it much, much, muuuuuuch easier. Or maybe they just suck at phrasing. I for one have never seen any complaints on the forums about DE being difficult to understand. The rifle and duel pistol spammers crawling all over the place certainly don't point to that conclusion, either.

Edit: I'm leaning more and more to just sucky phrasing.

Leo G.4501 · May 10, 2018

@"Specialka.7290" said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

The current problem would have been circumvented had the devs released the elite specs on a test server to those that pre-ordered PoF, tested the specs for a couple of months and made meaningful observations and changes and then released the DE with the current malice style (or very soon after release if the resources weren't available to change it before the official release). After you set up the profession spec and release it, you only change it if unexpected outcomes arise which usually only happen when less-than-optimal forethought was used in balancing the spec in the first place.

Even if the result ends up being crappy, boring and bland, that is the crap-bland-borring flavor of those that pick that spec. The imparative should then be "don't make that mistake again" for the next set released.

Leo G.4501 · May 10, 2018

@Curennos.9307 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:Can we give backstab and DJ the Blurred Frenzy treatment and buff the hell out of those two skills in pve? It'd be a nice dps boost and an easy split. Then fix the irritating thing with the stealth on dodge and see where we're at then?
I get that some people really liked the previous incarnation of Malice - I liked how the dmg increase applied to all my attacks, too. But let's be honest, the whole 'stalking' thing was horribly unfun to play against. YOU may have fun marking someone, then waiting for malice to build or w/e, then smashing your opponent, but it's an awful pvp mechanic.
Pve wise, they definitely need some love, but I'm not quite sure why there are some people complaining that...they have to use a core profession mechanic? Maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly - I found DE in pve to be utterly, mindnumbingly boring before. Now it's kinda mildly more interesting because I'm rewarded more for making good use of stealth, but you certainly don't see me complaining that I have to use shade skills for scourge to be effective, shroud for a reaper/core necro, or that playing a class involves...playing that class.
ANet could also stand to sprinkle some more stealth access around tbh. I run dp/rifle in all game modes, but I feel bad for those who wanted to move away from rifle, stealth utilities (could of the stealth utilities could maybe do with some fenangling - lower cooldown, lower stealth duration, yadday adda), etc. There definitely is a difference between being able to easily access stealth and not doing so, and just having to sacrifice far too much to get stealth (say...a sword/SB setup or something)

I understand your viewpoint but, killing an entire mechanic just to fix one build that could have been easily fixed in another manner without breaking the Malice system to the point it only benefits a select few who are willing to conform to that style of play is ludicrous. Also it's not just some of the players it's a good majority of the Deadeye player base. Or if anything the ones who love and understand the rifle, which again is the majority of the Deadeye player base.

Simply buffing the stealth skills won't solve the underlying problem of the Specialization itself.

I wouldn't presume to guess the statistics of the change. All the teefs I know have been loving the changes. That certainly doesn't mean that others who have groups of friends/guilds with teefs hating the change are invalid, but...their exp doesn't invalidate mine, and vice versa.

This isn't a debate about your experience vs another, it's about the terms and conditions that facilitate change. Because you could very well be on the opposite side of the fence the next time Anet decides to change something drastically, and then where do you argue from? Would you contradict yourself or support the change even at the detriment of yourself and others?

The paragraph below the one that's showing in your quote is extremely relevant. I never made it about personal experience - it was an example to prove a point when I addressed their usage of 'everyone who loves rifle' and all that jazz. I do disagree with anet's REASON for doing this...but I have very little against the results - malice pre-change was...dare I say it, extremely simple. IIRC they said they changed it because it was too hard to understand, which I found absolutely bamboozling. I found it boring and too easy to understand/work with.

What I fear is that they didn't change it for the reasons stated (your recollection is correct, they said it was "bland" and traits "conflicted" and malic interaction was too "complex") but rather just to balance an aspect of the game that was out of hand (the stealth camping Deadeye deathsquads in WvW, perhaps).

That's even worse practice than changing things on a whim.

Also, I know they have test server publishing capabilities...

Eh, fair, if a bit...conspiracy theory for my taste. I highly doubt anet would go through that much trouble just for one setup when they could've done it much, much, muuuuuuch easier. Or maybe they just suck at phrasing. I for one have never seen any complaints on the forums about DE being difficult to understand. The rifle and duel pistol spammers crawling all over the place certainly don't point to that conclusion, either.

I'm willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt (I say it is a fear, not my opinion) but I'm also willing to just live with their mistakes as well. If Deadeye turned out boring and bland, I'll take it and play the spec when I feel like something sniper-ish even it it's boring and bland.

Aistos.5174 · May 10, 2018

@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You perfectly name the problem: Now we have to play this active playstyle. Imo active players aren’t automatically the better players; the diversity makes it.All the other classes are already (hyper)active classes and now they take away the only specialisation which was different.

If you want to play an active class you have several options in this game. I don’t want to offend anyone but I honestly don’t understand why the „active/dynamic“ players decided for rifle DE.For a calm ranged damage dealer there was exactly one possibility - untill this patch, now it is gone.And I wasn‘t a DJ spammer before; I loved to change the place while stealthed and chose the right moment for DJ (in PvP, PvE is another thing) - without the need of beeing stealthed. I wouldn‘t have had a problem with a DJ nerf (for PvP/WvW), but I have a problem with seeing this unique specialisation disapear of this great game.

There are maybe some points for the trait changes you can talk about but I haven‘t seen one good reason for the changes in the rifle skills yet.

Vulcaruss.9567 · May 10, 2018

@"Specialka.7290" said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You sound like those world of warcraft developers who overhauled their classes every expansion on the simple reason of "To keep things fun and interesting." While not considering the simplestic, fun, easy to learn and fluid nature of what came before.

Boring you say? It was crap and bland? That my friend is your opinion. Why did you play Deadeye at all then if it was boring and bland? Not everyone shares your opinion, neither do they share my opinion collectively. Regardless the old system was simplistic and easy to learn and use.

Specialka.7290 · May 10, 2018

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@"Specialka.7290" said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You sound like those world of warcraft developers who overhauled their classes every expansion on the simple reason of "To keep things fun and interesting." While not considering the simplestic, fun, easy to learn and fluid nature of what came before.

Boring you say? It was crap and bland? That my friend is your opinion. Why did you play Deadeye at all then if it was boring and bland? Not everyone shares your opinion, neither do they share my opinion collectively. Regardless the old system was simplistic and easy to learn and use.

You said it yourself. Easy to learn and use and easy to master makes a bland and boring gameplay.

Wondrouswall.7169 · May 10, 2018

Not sure how Peripheral Vision was esoteric. Description was fine and it fit well with the bottom row of support traits since it added additional boons to allies and damage to nearby enemies.

Now, it's been replaced with Premeditation. Premeditation is fine as a trait, but doesn't fit the bottom line about using stolen skills. Meanwhile, Collateral Damage was added, which is a weak trait and does AoE like Peripheral Vision but passively activates when killing a foe.

I Would like to see Peripheral Vision return and Premeditation replace Collateral Damage.

Curennos.9307 · May 10, 2018

@Aistos.5174 said:
@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You perfectly name the problem: Now we

have

to play this active playstyle. Imo active players aren’t automatically the better players; the diversity makes it.All the other classes are already (hyper)active classes and now they take away the only specialisation which was different.

If you want to play an active class you have several options in this game. I don’t want to offend anyone but I honestly don’t understand why the „active/dynamic“ players decided for rifle DE.For a calm ranged damage dealer there was exactly one possibility - untill this patch, now it is gone.And I wasn‘t a DJ spammer before; I loved to change the place while stealthed and chose the right moment for DJ (in PvP, PvE is another thing) - without the need of beeing stealthed. I wouldn‘t have had a problem with a DJ nerf (for PvP/WvW), but I have a problem with seeing this unique specialisation disapear of this great game.

There are maybe some points for the trait changes you can talk about but I haven‘t seen one good reason for the changes in the rifle skills yet.

THe entire game was meant to be active. If you want to be a 'calm ranged damage dealer' you can still kneel and just spam rifle 3. Or pistol 3. It's also not horribly difficult to press your elite skill, dodge roll or a stealth utility and then press 1. Rifle also has a smoke field now, which can be comboed with standing 4 for stealth.

Vulcaruss.9567 · May 10, 2018

@Specialka.7290 said:
@Vulcaruss.9567 said:
@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You sound like those world of warcraft developers who overhauled their classes every expansion on the simple reason of "To keep things fun and interesting." While not considering the simplestic, fun, easy to learn and fluid nature of what came before.

Boring you say? It was crap and bland? That my friend is your opinion. Why did you play Deadeye at all then if it was boring and bland? Not everyone shares your opinion, neither do they share my opinion collectively. Regardless the old system was simplistic and easy to learn and use.

You said it yourself. Easy to learn and use and easy to master makes a bland and boring gameplay.

I never said it was Easy to Master, that perma stealth build wasn't easy to use for everyone. Nor was the learning curve for Deadeye non-existent, like all Thief related builds it takes a certain skill and timing to play effeciently as well as initiative management. It is in no way easy to master right off the bat.

Turk.5460 · May 10, 2018

@Tashigi.3159 said:
@Turk.5460 said:Yeah sorry, but that's not a fact, that's called an opinion.I am a DE that uses a rifle and I'm more potent than ever.

Yeah, in WVW/PVP you are.Care to explain why even benchmark submitters are refusing to even spend time on Rifle DE and all the attention is going to D/D DE?I don't know, maybe it has to do with the wooping 5.5K DPS loss, which gets even worse when you glitch out of stealth. People are reporting a kitten 9K DPS loss in some cases and you mean to tell me you are somehow more potent now? Lol

Yes, in WvW, the game mode that I play, I am more potent.

An incredibly low percentage of people care about benchmarks, and an even lower percentage of those people who care about them actually hit those benchmarks. Thus the word...benchmark. Raid players are a very small minority but for some reason are among the loudest of players, especially right now.

Aistos.5174 · May 10, 2018

@Curennos.9307 said:
@Aistos.5174 said:
@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You perfectly name the problem: Now we

have

to play this active playstyle. Imo active players aren’t automatically the better players; the diversity makes it.All the other classes are already (hyper)active classes and now they take away the only specialisation which was different.

If you want to play an active class you have several options in this game. I don’t want to offend anyone but I honestly don’t understand why the „active/dynamic“ players decided for rifle DE.For a calm ranged damage dealer there was exactly one possibility - untill this patch, now it is gone.And I wasn‘t a DJ spammer before; I loved to change the place while stealthed and chose the right moment for DJ (in PvP, PvE is another thing) - without the need of beeing stealthed. I wouldn‘t have had a problem with a DJ nerf (for PvP/WvW), but I have a problem with seeing this unique specialisation disapear of this great game.

There are maybe some points for the trait changes you can talk about but I haven‘t seen one good reason for the changes in the rifle skills yet.

THe entire game was meant to be active. If you want to be a 'calm ranged damage dealer' you can still kneel and just spam rifle 3. Or pistol 3. It's also not horribly difficult to press your elite skill, dodge roll or a stealth utility and then press 1. Rifle also has a smoke field now, which can be comboed with standing 4 for stealth.

I don‘t like using the same skill over and over again. With the removal of cursed bullet and the unnecessary stealth need of DJ they took away some main mechanics for me. And gave me this useless smoke wall instead. Of course I could arrange with this new skill set but it just doesn‘t make sense to me and takes the fun out of the game. And for me a game like GW 2 has to be fun.

May I ask if you for yourself see any benefits in the new rifle skills (not malice changes)? I‘m just interested...

Curennos.9307 · May 10, 2018

@Aistos.5174 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Aistos.5174 said:
@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.

You perfectly name the problem: Now we

have

to play this active playstyle. Imo active players aren’t automatically the better players; the diversity makes it.All the other classes are already (hyper)active classes and now they take away the only specialisation which was different.

If you want to play an active class you have several options in this game. I don’t want to offend anyone but I honestly don’t understand why the „active/dynamic“ players decided for rifle DE.For a calm ranged damage dealer there was exactly one possibility - untill this patch, now it is gone.And I wasn‘t a DJ spammer before; I loved to change the place while stealthed and chose the right moment for DJ (in PvP, PvE is another thing) - without the need of beeing stealthed. I wouldn‘t have had a problem with a DJ nerf (for PvP/WvW), but I have a problem with seeing this unique specialisation disapear of this great game.

There are maybe some points for the trait changes you can talk about but I haven‘t seen one good reason for the changes in the rifle skills yet.

THe entire game was meant to be active. If you want to be a 'calm ranged damage dealer' you can still kneel and just spam rifle 3. Or pistol 3. It's also not horribly difficult to press your elite skill, dodge roll or a stealth utility and then press 1. Rifle also has a smoke field now, which can be comboed with standing 4 for stealth.

I don‘t like using the same skill over and over again. With the removal of cursed bullet and the unnecessary stealth need of DJ they took away some main mechanics for me. And gave me this useless smoke wall instead. Of course I could arrange with this new skill set but it just doesn‘t make sense to me and takes the fun out of the game. And for me a game like GW 2 has to be fun.

May I ask if you for yourself see any benefits in the new rifle skills (not malice changes)? I‘m just interested...

Certainly. Crouching rifle 4 is amazing and would definitely cover, or compensate, for the removable of unbockable from DJ. You can fire away at opponents pretty much freely without fear of ranged retaliation (except for unblockables obv). It's also a smoke field, so 20% to blind people you shoot at with the rifle. And you can use it with rifle 4 standing to get stealth. It's an amazing skill.

And if you cast it in all four directions, it makes a pound sign xD The new maleficent GM trait thingy gives amazing sustain and pressure + boons such that you don't have to take trickery anymore. I can also fire off DJs more frequently, albeit lower damage (but I odn't need to hit someone for 30k - that's overkill).

Vulcaruss.9567 · May 10, 2018

@Turk.5460 said:
@Tashigi.3159 said:
@Turk.5460 said:Yeah sorry, but that's not a fact, that's called an opinion.I am a DE that uses a rifle and I'm more potent than ever.

Yeah, in WVW/PVP you are.Care to explain why even benchmark submitters are refusing to even spend time on Rifle DE and all the attention is going to D/D DE?I don't know, maybe it has to do with the wooping 5.5K DPS loss, which gets even worse when you glitch out of stealth. People are reporting a kitten 9K DPS loss in some cases and you mean to tell me you are somehow more potent now? Lol

Yes, in WvW, the game mode that I play, I am more potent.

An incredibly low percentage of people care about benchmarks, and an even lower percentage of those people who care about them

actually hit those benchmarks

. Thus the word...benchmark. Raid players are a very small minority but for some reason are among the loudest of players, especially right now.

If I may clarify I'm not a raider. I've never set foot in a raid at all since their conception, I find raid culture toxic and the elitisim that follows irritating.

I'm more your general PvE player who likes to duel his friends in his Guild Hall Arena. My moto is:

"If I'm going to play the game I'm atleast going to be proficient at it. I may not be esports, pro-league or Raid Master good, but I'm going to play to the best of my abilities and have fun doing it."

Aistos.5174 · May 10, 2018

@Curennos.9307 said:
@Aistos.5174 said:
@Curennos.9307 said:
@Aistos.5174 said:
@Specialka.7290 said:They did not revamp DE to only fix one build.
It was because the system was crap, boring and bland before. Now, you have to be more active while playing DE, especially with Rifle. Though it could need some tweaks, it is better designed now than before.