An Eye on the Deadeye

[Klypto.1703]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Wow a thf rework after a mesmer rework a few months ago....mmm what you did to mes absolutly made them a more formidable opponent with there 100% uptime with clones and allowing them to have more then 4 but more like 4-8 out at the same time...mm

Can we assume that every class will get a rework/overhaul by the end of this year?

Except this change looks like it's basically deleting deadeye. DELETING rifle 4, CONSUMING malice on stealth ability use (which = punishment for stealthing essentially) and nothing damage-wise to replace the ability, instead they gave a defensive barrier on rifle 4? Let's not kid ourselves people, thief isn't a tank class and it isn't going to do kitten all with a defensive ability on rifle 4 and with no damage ability aside from TRB which is basically just going to replace P/P unload, only without the mobility.

All of this most likely due to whiners who complained about builds that EVERYONE agrees are garbage in real play but

some random silver newbie

a lot of random silver newbies complained that he died in 1s (after 21s of marking, but lets just ignore that because reasons).

Yeahhhhhhhhh this elite was trash to begin with and it's going to be even more trash after this so-called update. As usual, mesmer dominates every game mode and gets a buff in its update while rifle thief is essentially trash that nobody uses in every game mode and gets deleted for its "update".

I can't say I'm surprised.

I'm looking at this that lots of bad players complaining about an already decent spec I play myself to become even better so in the end the good players at playing deadeye will have to be nerfed and not the spec.

[Volrath.1473]

@Klypto.1703 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Wow a thf rework after a mesmer rework a few months ago....mmm what you did to mes absolutly made them a more formidable opponent with there 100% uptime with clones and allowing them to have more then 4 but more like 4-8 out at the same time...mm

Can we assume that every class will get a rework/overhaul by the end of this year?

Except this change looks like it's basically deleting deadeye. DELETING rifle 4, CONSUMING malice on stealth ability use (which = punishment for stealthing essentially) and nothing damage-wise to replace the ability, instead they gave a defensive barrier on rifle 4? Let's not kid ourselves people, thief isn't a tank class and it isn't going to do kitten all with a defensive ability on rifle 4 and with no damage ability aside from TRB which is basically just going to replace P/P unload, only without the mobility.

All of this most likely due to whiners who complained about builds that EVERYONE agrees are garbage in real play but

some random silver newbie

a lot of random silver newbies complained that he died in 1s (after 21s of marking, but lets just ignore that because reasons).

Yeahhhhhhhhh this elite was trash to begin with and it's going to be even more trash after this so-called update. As usual, mesmer dominates every game mode and gets a buff in its update while rifle thief is essentially trash that nobody uses in every game mode and gets deleted for its "update".

I can't say I'm surprised.

I'm looking at this that lots of bad players complaining about an already decent spec I play myself to become even better so in the end the good players at playing deadeye will have to be nerfed and not the spec.

err... sorry what?! o.O'

[Kageseigi.2150]

@NeroBoron.7285 said:Same goes for spammable oneshot skills from invis like backstab. oh hey i was lucky and dodged or blocked it, but no reveal and it can still be spammed, due to 0 sec cd when screwing the burst.

Wow, Thief era 2015.

As for spamming skills, a lot of that comes from poor weapon skill design. Some sets have only one or two useful skills, with others being very niche if useful at all. Beyond that, the Thief is limited on what skills it can actually use because it has only one initiative pool that is shared between both weapon sets. Spamming is to make up for the fact that it can't just switch to another weapon to be able to use its other useful skills.

If the each weapon set had its own initiative pool, or if there were no weapon swap cooldown, or even if all skills were actually useful (like D/P), then there would be a lot less reason to spam skills.

[Kallist.5917]

These changes have been borhering me since i read them late last week. We have spent the last 8 months learning this spec, and now youe yanking the rug out from under us with a major overhaul. Would have been nice to have seen the planned changes in their entirety, or had a way to preview these changes so we could have had some kind of input on this. Feels like your taking these changes way too lightly.

[Uani.7682]

DeadEye Should have 1800 range.I mean, come on, this is a sniper, even ranger with a wooden bow has perma 1600 range, sniper with a f riffle only gets 1600 on his knees.Is that normal ?

[borgs.6103]

@Uani.7682 said:DeadEye Should have 1800 range.I mean, come on, this is a sniper, even ranger with a wooden bow has perma 1600 range, sniper with a f riffle only gets 1600 on his knees.Is that normal ?

Duh. Count how many muscles you need to pull a rifle's trigger compared to pulling a bow's string. :p

[Astyrah.4015]

@Uani.7682 said:DeadEye Should have 1800 range.I mean, come on, this is a sniper, even ranger with a wooden bow has perma 1600 range, sniper with a f riffle only gets 1600 on his knees.Is that normal ?

ranger has 1750+ range (1500 in the tooltip) while kneeling rifle DE has 1500 fixed ranged. and no it's not normal i mean in a logical sense. there's another thread about it where someone explained the science behind bullets and arrows like arrows can travel further and faster than a bullet but only if you can have the same initial velocity as a bullet when fired, so in a way, the rifle should have faster projectile speed and range in this game like 1800+ ish

[Lazze.9870]

@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Uani.7682" said:DeadEye Should have 1800 range.I mean, come on, this is a sniper, even ranger with a wooden bow has perma 1600 range, sniper with a f riffle only gets 1600 on his knees.Is that normal ?

ranger has 1750+ range (1500 in the tooltip) while kneeling rifle DE has 1500 fixed ranged. and no it's not normal i mean in a logical sense. there's another thread about it where someone explained the science behind bullets and arrows like arrows can travel further and faster than a bullet but only if you can have the same initial velocity as a bullet when fired, so in a way, the rifle should have faster projectile speed and range in this game like 1800+ ish

The problem with this discussion is that you take into consideration what "makes sense". The only thing that matters is balance, and with Anet reworking the Deadeye it is impossible to say as of now whether a range increase is justifiable or not. Anet nerfed the range of ranger's shortbow to 900 ages ago, not because it made sense when comparing it to the longbow, but because that's how they wanted to balance it (granted, the ranger nerfs back then was completey idiotic and several of them has been re-buffed or re-worked since then - shortbow remains 900 range though).

[Rebel.6419]

Are these changes due to PvP or WvW complaints? I want to play my DE as a rifle in open world PvE, Fractals and raids and would welcome any changes to improve that. I am not experienced enough to know for sure but this looks like it will make it worse.

[EMTDJ.9042]

Thinking about wvw with the changes to deadeye coming today. Gank squads could really be dangerous since every skill can gain 2 malice on hit, instead of over time. Things like pistol could do a lot more with 2 malice per skill and malice only being spent in stealth could make deadeye really good in zergs since they won't be having to wait for malice to build up. Deadeye taking down downs, building up malice, then striking a lord from stealth. Dang, that could be useful

Can you imagine a squad of deadeye going into SMC when a big fight is going on, waiting until the fight is over- stealthing each other during the fight with shadow refuge and skills up on the 3rd level, then waiting until the fight is over and if their server didn't win the fight, they wait for the coast to be clear then go and reck the Lord with this new system? That would be insane.

[breno.5423]

My suggestion is to reduce Deadeye's Mark and Sniper's Cover cast to 1/4 instead 1/2.

1/2 is too much for PvP, it's like an healing skill cast.

[Tails.9372]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:First, we felt that stealth was a solid core mechanic that touched every single thief weapon and had many synergies through core traits and skills.Wrong (ignoring the fact that P/P feels thematically more like playing a bandit than a "stealthy thief" anyways): stealth based fighting mechanics are pretty much irrelevant for dual pistol gameplay and frankly, no P/P thief cares about having them either. In regards to weapon skills it's definitely not a "core gameplay mechanic for every single thief weapon" nor should it be.

[MakubeC.3026]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Wow a thf rework after a mesmer rework a few months ago....mmm what you did to mes absolutly made them a more formidable opponent with there 100% uptime with clones and allowing them to have more then 4 but more like 4-8 out at the same time...mm

Can we assume that every class will get a rework/overhaul by the end of this year?

Except this change looks like it's basically deleting deadeye. DELETING rifle 4, CONSUMING malice on stealth ability use (which = punishment for stealthing essentially) and nothing damage-wise to replace the ability, instead they gave a defensive barrier on rifle 4? Let's not kid ourselves people, thief isn't a tank class and it isn't going to do kitten all with a defensive ability on rifle 4 and with no damage ability aside from TRB which is basically just going to replace P/P unload, only without the mobility.

All of this most likely due to whiners who complained about builds that EVERYONE agrees are garbage in real play but

some random silver newbie

a lot of random silver newbies complained that he died in 1s (after 21s of marking, but lets just ignore that because reasons).

Yeahhhhhhhhh this elite was trash to begin with and it's going to be even more trash after this so-called update. As usual, mesmer dominates every game mode and gets a buff in its update while rifle thief is essentially trash that nobody uses in every game mode and gets deleted for its "update".

I can't say I'm surprised.

I think that by "defensive barrier" he meant something like Revenant's hammer 4, which you can combo with other skills. Not a HP barrier.

[bq pd.2148]

@EMTDJ.9042 said:Can you imagine a squad of deadeye going into SMC when a big fight is going on, waiting until the fight is over- stealthing each other during the fight with shadow refuge and skills up on the 3rd level, then waiting until the fight is over and if their server didn't win the fight, they wait for the coast to be clear then go and reck the Lord with this new system? That would be insane.you can already stealth all the time and flip everything after your zerg failed, i do that alot to every structure aside from SMC solo, tho i also go in with enemy zerg not only mine. SMC has the issue that too often people walk through lord room, therefor in SMC i look for 1-2 people to remain dead and res them so they can speed it up.BUT if you have a group of deadeyes coming only to PvE after a failed zerg fight, then the question is: would you even lose the fight if those deadeyes were on more usefull classes and fight along their zerg? one thief doing this well maybe ok, but a group is just stupid.

[Specialka.7290]

So the Thief will use the same system than a Rogue in Wow.

Seems logical, because gaining malice over time was a bad idea in practice because it makes a system boring and stale and terrible at switching target. You just mark a target, wait to get 7 malices and spam DJ ad nauseum. The gameplay will be, I hope, a little more dynamic with that update.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Specialka.7290 said:So the Thief will use the same system than a Rogue in Wow.

Seems logical, because gaining malice over time was a bad idea in practice because it makes a system boring and stale and terrible at switching target. You just mark a target, wait to get 7 malices and spam DJ ad nauseum. The gameplay will be, I hope, a little more dynamic with that update.

My concern is that PvE damage will fall to pre buff days due to all these changes because of the people complaining about the PvP side of it who have no clue that DE is useless against good players. I feel a Scrapper situation coming on where it will be okish PvP, but it will suck monkey balls in PvE.

[breno.5423]

Silent Scope isnt working

[DemonSeed.3528]

oh boy. these changes. where do I start :oso rifle 5 is just basically a stance change and nothing else besides activating kneel skills and a velocity increase.the "barrier" is just a smoke screen on rifle kneel 4? gotta stand up and rifle 4 for stealth, feels weirdok silent scope working.

[bq pd.2148]

@breno.5423 said:Silent Scope isnt working

ît is for me, you need to be in combat and you see the CD in your bar.

stealth camping oneshot DE did not get removed, takes a little longer now but has uninterruptable stealth access and much stronger backstab - so pretty much buffed.

edit: doesnt work with dodgejump

[DemonSeed.3528]

@MUDse.7623 said:Hey man, can you do some tests since you're a better thief than I am - can you see how it does against another d/p etc thief? i feel quite uncoordinated right now and I'm still getting used to it. It's pretty fast paced but I am not sure it can go head to head with one, but I am beginning to see the light.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@breno.5423 said:Silent Scope isnt working

ît is for me, you need to be in combat and you see the CD in your bar.

stealth camping oneshot DE did not get removed, takes a little longer now but has uninterruptable stealth access and much stronger backstab - so pretty much buffed.

thats a shame really, was hoping that they removed that sort of thing tbh, ah well.

[bq pd.2148]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:Hey man, can you do some tests since you're a better thief than I am - can you see how it does against another d/p etc thief? i feel quite uncoordinated right now and I'm still getting used to it. It's pretty fast paced but I am not sure it can go head to head with one, but I am beginning to see the light.

i did onehit thieves with backstab before but in some very rare cases like fat disgrace it didnt allways full onehit - now with new backstab it should allways be enough for another thief. i will need a little time to learn new stealthing.infight with dodge, outfight with the cool barrier skill 4 ini for 5s field means without trickery 4 leaps = permastealth. i will record for myself to improve the next days or weeks so maybe i can upload whatever you want to see then.

for PvE it would be very nice to have the silent scope stealth applied at the end of the dodge roll rather then at the beginning. because like this i need to stop attacking, wait till the bullet reached the target and then dodge to apply DJ. if stealth was applied at the end i could shoot and while bullets are midair dodge into DJ.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@MUDse.7623 said:I mean rifle against other weaponset thieves, I feel it still may lack something but I'm still messing around with it. Endurance regen would be nice in a trait (and I won't go the acro route, too little ini, it's kind of already messed up my other build).

[breno.5423]

Silent Scope is working, but i guess it would be better if the stealth came in the end of dodge, so we could get stealth dodging before weapon swap

[Turk.5460]

The malicious tactical strike is still pretty lackluster. Not enough reason to spend the initiative or utility cooldowns to gain stealth with Sword...I think they should have added a non-boon regeneration effect or flat healing per malice stack in addition to the endurance replenishment.