Please do something about permanent stealth

snh.7091 · May 10, 2018

With the addition of a sniper profession to the game you guys hopefully saw this coming. Mostly Deadeyes go for Zerk gear to maximise profession efficiency. Some go with Marauder, but the point is to go for maximum damage output possible. Do you expect someone with 11k health and no toughness whatsoever (mostly dies from one hit from anything) have other defences than stealth and somewhat mobility?

Ofc not, because you don't care.

You only care that your class wins and the moment you encounter something challenging you come to the forums to complain about what is a L2P issue. If you die to a Deadeye blame none but yourself.

You can observe a mark above your head (the mark is a necessity for the Deadeye to build up Malice). Everything a Deadeye does is heavily telegraphed by visuals and sound. Bullets can be dodged (Matrix), reflected and blocked. The slightest narrow terrain or obstacle renders the bullet invalid.

And you still die...

...because your ego and perhaps even arrogance leads you to oblivion; thinking you spent a decent amount of time to get the bling-bling for your class and now you think you can best anything in the game and call yourself the king.

Here's the deal, you're not meant to win all battles. You just don't get it.

It amuses me watching people playing other hyper-buffed classes come moan to developers about the squishiest class that contrary to many demands proper strategy to everything you do unless you play a dodge junkie like S/D or S/P which doesn't require stealth at all because the dodges are OP as duck.

Playing a Deadeye with the lowest health pool and no toughness is like living on the edge. You get the adrenaline rush pretty much every time you misfire because you have to quickly do something to survive and given the fact you are a sitting duck in the open you resort to what? That's right, you stealth or use Shadowstep (one time use in 50s) or rifle 4 if you have any initiative left to get away ASAP or bow 5 if you run such a build.

Stealth is the primary / core mechanic of the Deadeye. Remove that and there is no point in the Deadeye to begin with.

Since when do snipers operate in plain sight?

Other thief variants like Staff DD, D/P, S/D - you name it - don't require a whole lot of stealth, if any at all. It's this single profession that is built around it. I don't think they'll do anything about it and I think they shouldn't, because once they do it will render the aspect of the profession useless. It's like tearing a beating heart out of one's body if you remove stealth from the Deadeye. Stealth is essence to snipers. If people refuse to understand this not much can be done.

Peace <3

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · May 10, 2018

WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.

All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.

Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

bq pd.2148 · May 10, 2018

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · May 10, 2018

@MUDse.7623 said:
@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

I still dont see where they can be "perma stealth". They will have to use a lot of utilities just for the joy of staying stealth. I admit I haven't looked too deeply into the changes, however does dodging remove the revealed debuff as well?

reddie.5861 · May 10, 2018

@Inoki.6048 said:With the addition of a sniper profession to the game you guys hopefully saw this coming. Mostly Deadeyes go for Zerk gear to maximise profession efficiency. Some go with Marauder, but the point is to go for maximum damage output possible. Do you expect someone with 11k health and no toughness whatsoever (mostly dies from one hit from anything) have other defences than stealth and somewhat mobility?
Ofc not, because you don't care.
You only care that your class wins and the moment you encounter something challenging you come to the forums to complain about what is a L2P issue. If you die to a Deadeye blame none but yourself.
You can observe a mark above your head (the mark is a necessity for the Deadeye to build up Malice). Everything a Deadeye does is heavily telegraphed by visuals and sound. Bullets can be dodged (Matrix), reflected and blocked. The slightest narrow terrain or obstacle renders the bullet invalid.
And you still die...
...because your ego and perhaps even arrogance leads you to oblivion; thinking you spent a decent amount of time to get the bling-bling for your class and now you think you can best anything in the game and call yourself the king.
Here's the deal, you're not meant to win all battles. You just don't get it.
It amuses me watching people playing other hyper-buffed classes come moan to developers about the squishiest class that contrary to many demands proper strategy to everything you do unless you play a dodge junkie like S/D or S/P which doesn't require stealth at all because the dodges are OP as duck.
Playing a Deadeye with the lowest health pool and no toughness is like living on the edge. You get the adrenaline rush pretty much every time you misfire because you have to quickly do something to survive and given the fact you are a sitting duck in the open you resort to what? That's right, you stealth or use Shadowstep (one time use in 50s) or rifle 4 if you have any initiative left to get away ASAP or bow 5 if you run such a build.
Stealth is the primary / core mechanic of the Deadeye. Remove that and there is no point in the Deadeye to begin with.
Since when do snipers operate in plain sight?
Other thief variants like Staff DD, D/P, S/D - you name it - don't require a whole lot of stealth, if any at all. It's this single profession that is built around it. I don't think they'll do anything about it and I think they shouldn't, because once they do it will render the aspect of the profession useless. It's like tearing a beating heart out of one's body if you remove stealth from the Deadeye. Stealth is essence to snipers. If people refuse to understand this not much can be done.
Peace <3

this is not tru i have played deadeye before this buffed up / nerf whatever u call it patch, and i played non stealth build.

just mark > stun > stun sigil +30%? dmg bla balaabai pretty much wrecked my ass through backlines from blobs without having stealth build no1 would get close to me.like u said i can shadowstep i can do rifle 4 skill, ofcourse i could stealth somehow but never had the need as i could simply retreat so fast any1 that would follow me to that point was so far dragged off his blob commander he would simply die.

now again i admit i strongly dislike stealth builds even tho thief is my all time favorite in gw2 i just cant stand stealthing for everything, yes i stealth also but i dont attack > run > stealth > attack > run > stealth > attack.

i might stealth > attack > die or win. i prefer these kind of fights then me choosing when to launch and when to hide like a pussy to attack again.when u fight with constant stealth ur opponent has no chance its like ur just making the person u fight cripple u hit u hide u hit u hide u hit u hide untill hes crippled enough that he or she cant do a jackshit anymore and basically left to die.yes that might be how some people think thief is played i personally find it the most boring way to play cus theres nothing involved u dont get the thrills of a good fight cus person u was fighting didnt even get to fight back. u could aswell go play PvE same shit piss easy and npc's barely fight back.

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

not sure but deadeye dodge + random skills + d/p + some endurance food + adventure runes maybe u can do perma stealth or atleast long enough for u to constantly hide and when about to run out u can prolly find a spot where people will still not see u and u can hide up again.

RedShark.9548 · May 10, 2018

@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

bq pd.2148 · May 10, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

I still dont see where they can be "perma stealth". They will have to use a lot of utilities just for the joy of staying stealth. I admit I haven't looked too deeply into the changes, however does dodging remove the revealed debuff as well?

no it doesnt remove revealed, but you only get revealed by some enemy attacks , anti stealth traps and the sand around earth keep on DBL and ofc your own attacks . so why would you need to spamm reveal remove for permastealth?

edit and for all the 'i think', 'probably possible' etc a little demonstration:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuKkepUNx1c

RedShark.9548 · May 10, 2018

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:a good thief wont ever shoot into your reflect, or cancel his attack and wait your block outThe new Death's Judgment is unblockable. Blocks/reflects/projectile destruction have no effect on it.

even better for them and more frustrating for their enemies i guess

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · May 10, 2018

@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

I still dont see where they can be "perma stealth". They will have to use a lot of utilities just for the joy of staying stealth. I admit I haven't looked too deeply into the changes, however does dodging remove the revealed debuff as well?

no it doesnt remove revealed, but you only get revealed by some enemy attacks , anti stealth traps and the sand around earth keep on DBL and ofc your own attacks . so why would you need to spamm reveal remove for permastealth?

Because in a fight, if you want to do damage you will be revealed, and there are only so many times you can remove the debuff. In my mind (where I havent seen it happen and have no idea on how they can do it in this day and age), its either they attack to kill (which they cant be "perma stealth" due to the # of times they will need to be revealed after doing damage...thus not being a "perma stealth" DE, or attack for lulz, where maybe 1 attack every X seconds so when they attack, they can elite remove revealed and stay "perma stealth".

Perma stealth means to stay in stealth permanently, which, afaik can't actually happen (at least if they have intent on attacking someone).

Dami.5046 · May 10, 2018

yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill '

bq pd.2148 · May 10, 2018

@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief.now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief.for example thief vs warrior:if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake.most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next.

but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter.

bq pd.2148 · May 10, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

I still dont see where they can be "perma stealth". They will have to use a lot of utilities just for the joy of staying stealth. I admit I haven't looked too deeply into the changes, however does dodging remove the revealed debuff as well?

no it doesnt remove revealed, but you only get revealed by some enemy attacks , anti stealth traps and the sand around earth keep on DBL and ofc your own attacks . so why would you need to spamm reveal remove for permastealth?

Because in a fight, if you want to do damage you will be revealed, and there are only so many times you can remove the debuff. In my mind (where I havent seen it happen and have no idea on how they can do it in this day and age), its either they attack to kill (which they cant be "perma stealth" due to the # of times they will need to be revealed after doing damage...thus not being a "perma stealth" DE, or attack for lulz, where maybe 1 attack every X seconds so when they attack, they can elite remove revealed and stay "perma stealth".

Perma stealth means to stay in stealth permanently, which, afaik can't actually happen (at least if they have intent on attacking someone).

oh right. you can stay permastealthed to avoid a fight.you can aswell attack without being revealed , but just with very few attacks that well shouldnt be able to kill unless you got 0 condi cleanse.steal/ mark with DA (without Mug) inflficts poison without a hit, BA trait in trickery inflicts confusion without a hit and caltrops, maybe as asura the condi racial aswell. thats pretty much all there is you can deal damage wise without being revealed. a few stacks poison and confusion.

but the people in this thread have an issue with the permastealth to avoid a fight thing. that people can start a fight out of permastealth and go back into permastealth if they dont want to fight anymore.

RedShark.9548 · May 10, 2018

@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief.now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief.for example thief vs warrior:if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake.most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next.

but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter.

...are you serious...ok its not stealth alone, izs the fact that they got stealth, INSANE mobility, incredible amounts of dodges, blinds and bursta class with that much stealth should have a drawback atleast in mobility, it cant be that someone can easily run away from 4 or 5 ppl, nobody should be able to do that, if 5ppl rly want you dead you should be dead, atleast when you were in melee range once, ofc not when they are still 1500 range away, but when you get melee and 5 ppl decide to chase you, you should be a deadman walking, you dont even rly have to juke them with stealth, because of the mobility, remobe stealth, or mobility, both is just too much honestly, its just frustrating to play against that cancerous playstyle

bq pd.2148 · May 10, 2018

@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief.now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief.for example thief vs warrior:if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake.most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next.

but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter.

...are you serious...ok its not stealth alone, izs the fact that they got stealth, INSANE mobility, incredible amounts of dodges, blinds and bursta class with that much stealth should have a drawback atleast in mobility, it cant be that someone can easily run away from 4 or 5 ppl, nobody should be able to do that, if 5ppl rly want you dead you should be dead, atleast when you were in melee range once, ofc not when they are still 1500 range away, but when you get melee and 5 ppl decide to chase you, you should be a deadman walking, you dont even rly have to juke them with stealth, because of the mobility, remobe stealth, or mobility, both is just too much honestly, its just frustrating to play against that cancerous playstyle

see i want stealth, i dont care for mobility and rarely make use of it :D

DemonSeed.3528 · May 10, 2018

nm not long enough

AfroMetal.5394 · May 10, 2018

@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief.now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief.for example thief vs warrior:if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake.most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next.

but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter.

...are you serious...ok its not stealth alone, izs the fact that they got stealth, INSANE mobility, incredible amounts of dodges, blinds and bursta class with that much stealth should have a drawback atleast in mobility, it cant be that someone can easily run away from 4 or 5 ppl, nobody should be able to do that, if 5ppl rly want you dead you should be dead, atleast when you were in melee range once, ofc not when they are still 1500 range away, but when you get melee and 5 ppl decide to chase you, you should be a deadman walking, you dont even rly have to juke them with stealth, because of the mobility, remobe stealth, or mobility, both is just too much honestly, its just frustrating to play against that cancerous playstyle

Ah yes, you talking about solo spellbreakers that kite around 30+ zergs?

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · May 10, 2018

@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:WHen you trigger a thief's trap (assuming it deals physical damage) it does reveal the thief. They then need to use their elite to stealth again.
All you need to do is keep taking DPS damage. The stealth DE elite can only be used so often.
Also...I have yet to see a "perma stealth" thief in this day and age and have no idea on how they would be built anymore. (I used to play a ghost thief back in the day for the lolz)

with new DE it is enough to be in combat and dodge to gain permastealth. and as you dont want your target to regain health, you will remain near and in combat anyway.

I still dont see where they can be "perma stealth". They will have to use a lot of utilities just for the joy of staying stealth. I admit I haven't looked too deeply into the changes, however does dodging remove the revealed debuff as well?

no it doesnt remove revealed, but you only get revealed by some enemy attacks , anti stealth traps and the sand around earth keep on DBL and ofc your own attacks . so why would you need to spamm reveal remove for permastealth?

Because in a fight, if you want to do damage you will be revealed, and there are only so many times you can remove the debuff. In my mind (where I havent seen it happen and have no idea on how they can do it in this day and age), its either they attack to kill (which they cant be "perma stealth" due to the # of times they will need to be revealed after doing damage...thus not being a "perma stealth" DE, or attack for lulz, where maybe 1 attack every X seconds so when they attack, they can elite remove revealed and stay "perma stealth".

Perma stealth means to stay in stealth permanently, which, afaik can't actually happen (at least if they have intent on attacking someone).

oh right. you can stay permastealthed to avoid a fight.you can aswell attack without being revealed , but just with very few attacks that well shouldnt be able to kill unless you got 0 condi cleanse.steal/ mark with DA (without Mug) inflficts poison without a hit, BA trait in trickery inflicts confusion without a hit and caltrops, maybe as asura the condi racial aswell. thats pretty much all there is you can deal damage wise without being revealed. a few stacks poison and confusion.

but the people in this thread have an issue with the permastealth to avoid a fight thing. that people can start a fight out of permastealth and go back into permastealth if they dont want to fight anymore.

Ah, ty for the clarification. Appreciate it.

Pepper.3901 · May 10, 2018

@Ubi.4136 said:
@X T D.6458 said:Last night a deadeye kept marking and attacking me in stealth and never got revealed.
DONT YOU LOVE FIGHTING INVISIBLE PEOPLE???

Go spellbreaker, sword/board and rifle. Laugh at their corpse.

Right... you'd have to prove that one to me.

RedShark.9548 · May 10, 2018

@AfroMetal.5394 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.

yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at allit is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc.if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back!i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading.and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb

yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds.stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quickpeople grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth.

ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out

resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief.now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief.for example thief vs warrior:if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake.most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next.

but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter.

...are you serious...ok its not stealth alone, izs the fact that they got stealth, INSANE mobility, incredible amounts of dodges, blinds and bursta class with that much stealth should have a drawback atleast in mobility, it cant be that someone can easily run away from 4 or 5 ppl, nobody should be able to do that, if 5ppl rly want you dead you should be dead, atleast when you were in melee range once, ofc not when they are still 1500 range away, but when you get melee and 5 ppl decide to chase you, you should be a deadman walking, you dont even rly have to juke them with stealth, because of the mobility, remobe stealth, or mobility, both is just too much honestly, its just frustrating to play against that cancerous playstyle

Ah yes, you talking about solo spellbreakers that kite around 30+ zergs?

show me one, pls i beg you, no spellbreaker can survive even 3 ppl that read their skills and know when to use them, try again pls

AfroMetal.5394 · May 11, 2018

@RedShark.9548 said:
@AfroMetal.5394 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills.
there is no way to
force
him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report.
sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things.
the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong.