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Why Mallyx isn't viable in sPvP?


Arzamar.7150

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I love the idea of Revenant but it is sad to see that the class underperforming on so many levels. Also, I'm not that good with Rev, but I was wondering why Mallyx isn't viable in PvP? It has amazing AoE condition coverage and resistance to help allies since Scourge and Condi Mesmers are everywhere.

Is it because torment sucks in PvP? What am I missing?

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@Arzamar.7150 said:

Is it because torment sucks in PvP? What am I missing?

For a build focused so much in condition damage their defense against condutions is laughlable. Resistance only offears a few seconds ogf invulnerability, only in Mallyx lengend and only after spending energy in skills. This has several problems because is easily countered by skills that remove, steal or corrupt boons (and with mesmers and necros in almost every match this is granted) and also has cost of oportunities (will you use the energy to grant resistance or save it for further attacks?). Condi builds also have the great weakness of almost lacking defensive tools, because the main weapons (mace and axe) provide no block, defense, i-frames or blinds, so are forced to balance the build with the staff (which is almos useless in terms of damage if you're running condi stats). Finally, condition builds lack any way to put pressure at ranged foes (which can kit and kill us at will).

So, good damage but limited mobility, no defense and 0 sustain. That's is.

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@Arzamar.7150 said:I love the idea of Revenant but it is sad to see that the class underperforming on so many levels. Also, I'm not that good with Rev, but I was wondering why Mallyx isn't viable in PvP? It has amazing AoE condition coverage and resistance to help allies since Scourge and Condi Mesmers are everywhere.

Is it because torment sucks in PvP? What am I missing?

The biggest reason is because the strength of sPvP Mallyx is in point control. Everything Mallyx does well revolves around AoE condi distribution around a fixed area, and it used to be pretty good... You could use Mace 2, Unyielding Anguish, and EtD--coupled with resistance and the survivability and team boons of Herald--to lock down a point pretty well in a team fight. But then PoF came along and just outclassed everything that was good about these types of builds HARD. It's similar to why Dragonhunter isn't so great anymore--they were another build that's main strength was point control.

Scourge can apply an INSANE amount of point control from a safe distance (whereas you actually have to be ON the point) and instantly corrupt any resistance you try to use to counter them, tying to compete for point control against them is literally impossible as a Mallyx Rev... A single Support FB can pretty much negate 99% of your damage output with little effort in a team fight... Spellbreakers are basically just immune to your damage as well, since they can apply way more resistance than you can remove with Banish. And to top all that off, almost every class got a bunch of unblockable modifiers to tack onto their cc, which makes stepping onto a point and trying to use your shield basically a free kill for the other team. As for resistance, there's just so much more boon removal and corruption in an average match these days that trying to rely on it is a pretty big liability.

I suppose if the other team doesn't have a scourge or a support FB (which almost never happens), you can sort of make it work tho, but you'll need to have good and competent teammates since you have little-to-no carry potential... You'll also have to 100% stick to team fighting since Mirages/Holos/Breakers/Druids/Thiefs/Power Heralds will be able to run circles around you 1v1 or out in the open where you have zero chasing or disengaging power.

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You can still reach platinum with condi revenant. Everything viable til plat 2 and 3

I reach Platinum1 just by playing condi herald (proof - https://i.imgur.com/BdRweJU.jpg ) maybe if you skilled enough, you can go further.

Most of the time you rely on teammates and can't 1v1 most of meta builds. But if still do tons of damage and you can hold point pretty long time.

If they will fix "Pulsating Pestilence", condi rev will have potential to become close to meta. Just imagine, you remove 5 conditions every 10s, 3 of which will be transferred on enemy in melee zone. Plus do not forget staff 4.

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For a point of reference: I ended at 1675 last season and I did that by playing off-meta builds like power Reaper, Meditrapper, and core condi Necro.

The main reason Mallyx builds seem to perform poorly is because of bad builds that use Retribution, and resultantly people not playing to the spec's strengths. Also Mallyx builds look bad because most of the people (not going to name names) who play them aren't that good; they play them because they have no idea what's viable or because they're just messing around. The only person in NA I can think of that's good who's played Mallyx in the past 6 months is Olrun the Blade, not including myself.

Here is my build, it's more offensive than what SirTomato is playing and that's the key to getting higher than Plat 1: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsXmn3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlJNgDeg9oomyO93nH-jpRHQBkb/BBcIAE4DAIhnAAAcEA+WZAA

You need Invocation because of Ferocious Aggression for the extra damage and Song of the Mists for some extra damage and condi coverage. I would put my Mallyx build at a B+ rating, below A tier and S tier builds. It's B+ rather than B because of the on-demand 3-boon strip, this actually counters FB pretty hard if they're in the middle of supporting a necro because they're always spamming skills and will quickly take 7k-10k damage from confusion if you use Banish Enchantment twice.

The main thing is to make sure you're on top of your target when you switch legends to trigger the effects from both Song of the Mists and Pulsating Pestilence. That being said, you can apply pressure from medium range with Precision Strike, Banish Enchantment, or Elemental Blast if you're fighting a melee spec like S/D thief and need a little bit of extra damage. Winning duels is about playing smart and not rushing things, winning teamfights is mostly about spamming Glint skills then switching to Mallyx and carefully timing CCs and boonstrips. Try to use Banish Enchantment when you know the enemy will use some defensive skills. Don't be afraid to pressure someone with sword autoattack after you've condibombed them, thanks to Incensed Response you'll be hitting around 1k per attack and covering your burst with vulnerability.

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^ That's a very interesting build; never saw a condi Rev using sword + axe/staff in EU. Most of times I see condi Rev they use mace, which works as the main source of damage at the cost of having no defense. In your build seems that are the utilities ans traits and not the weapon skills the origin of the condition pressure. Would probably try with my alt (probably won't work as good as power Rev but is always nice to try new builds after so many months using the same one).

Question: why not viper amulet or carrion instead of warender?

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It's less of "it's bad" and more of "it doesn't fit into current metagame".

It'd do well in low power damage, more condition damage oriented meta. It also doesn't have a great role right now - the old Mallyx/Shiro that fullfilled the similar role as Power Rev does now is too vulnerable to power damage after removal of Mercenary amulet and Mallyx/Glint which was more of less mobile teamfighter isn't better in this role than Scourge.

Both are not unplayable, but don't have some particular advantage over competitors.

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@Buran.3796 said:^ That's a very interesting build; never saw a condi Rev using sword + axe/staff in EU. Most of times I see condi Rev they use mace, which works as the main source of damage at the cost of having no defense. In your build seems that are the utilities ans traits and not the weapon skills the origin of the condition pressure. Would probably try with my alt (probably won't work as good as power Rev but is always nice to try new builds after so many months using the same one).

Question: why not viper amulet or carrion instead of warender?

I guess for the extra Toughness that Wanderer provides.

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@"SirTomato.3627" said:You can still reach platinum with condi revenant. Everything viable til plat 2 and 3

I reach Platinum1 just by playing condi herald (proof - https://i.imgur.com/BdRweJU.jpg ) maybe if you skilled enough, you can go further.

Most of the time you rely on teammates and can't 1v1 most of meta builds. But if still do tons of damage and you can hold point pretty long time.

If they will fix "Pulsating Pestilence", condi rev will have potential to become close to meta. Just imagine, you remove 5 conditions every 10s, 3 of which will be transferred on enemy in melee zone. Plus do not forget staff 4.

I tested pulsating pestilence in the mist and one game and workes fine for me.

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@Buran.3796 said:^ That's a very interesting build; never saw a condi Rev using sword + axe/staff in EU. Most of times I see condi Rev they use mace, which works as the main source of damage at the cost of having no defense. In your build seems that are the utilities ans traits and not the weapon skills the origin of the condition pressure. Would probably try with my alt (probably won't work as good as power Rev but is always nice to try new builds after so many months using the same one).

Question: why not viper amulet or carrion instead of warender?

I'd say 2/5 of the damage is from weapon skills. You're going to be walking around with 25 might stacks most of the time so even without a power amulet you're still doing good power damage. Also sword 2 and axe 4 apply torment thanks to Abyssal Chill. Axe 5 does amazing damage unless your opponent can afford to stand still and not use any skills.

Answer: Against a comp with 2 or fewer power burst builds, I usually play Viper. With Viper you're a great bunker breaker because there's really no counter to a Zerk boon-remover. It's a great counter to Firebrand. But Wanderer is the best all-around choice because, at least in NA, power builds are extremely common and you really need the extra toughness. With Wanderer you're quite bulky and difficult to lock down given all your stunbreaks, evades, CC, and staff 3. Keep in mind that Mallyx players are stereotyped as bad so you'll often get focused, which reduces the usefulness of Viper since you'll get instagibbed. Carrion is a no-go, you don't need extra vitality and Carrion doesn't do nearly enough condi damage. Believe it or not the confusion from Axe 5 and Banish Enchantment is your best burst damage, so you need Expertise.

Bonus pro-tip for axe: you can turn while casting axe 5. Often I'll precast it while running away, then turn around and finish the cast, and CC the person who's chasing me. Then I'll condibomb them and the fight will turn around.

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I hit a plat 2 from gold/silver playing a condi rev and after these dozens of games I can say that most basic thing that mallyx condi lacks compare to usual power shiro is super lack of sustain against burst damage. When you look at typical condi build that you wanna create mallyx/glint [] mace/axe staff u quickly realize that the only way to dodge damage is on staff that is not even condi weapon. With such engaging skills like mace 3 or axe 4, mallyx UA all of them provides great engading/closing gap utillities but when u finnally jump to an enemy u cant even defend ureself and have to count on staff 3,5 or axe 5 cc to prevent oponent reaction. When compare to power shiro has insane burst/outgoing damage while sword 3 is an evade, shiro RS is spammable evade that removes cc condis. Thats 2 very powerfull evades the only thing that condi mallyx do much better (wich IMO is funny and not intended) is good mobility and tunning away of combat, Mallyx UA(Unyielding Anguish) provides insane mobility with resistance, I have countless number of situations when during the fight on point and being hard targeted by enemy I quickly switched from glint to malyx and gaining resistance, spammed UA to go out of combat and captured an another point. Thats propably the reason why I climbed that high to almost plat 3 with this build. The worst classes to play against is not surprisgnly a scourge witch I honestly always defeat in 1v1 but warrior and mesmers. I have so many times when fighting on point I downed druid or scourge and then warr with ramage came along cced me to death, its almost 100% lost when ure staff and glint heal are on cd. Mesmer is not easier at old cuze of hes daze, evade spam u are always pin down to defence, when against war u have decent chance to wind when ure cds are fresh against mesmers u can only defend. I have a match on a capricorn when I defend a point about a minute without support when he finnaly downed me we won the game, but during this time I have no chance to threaten him. I link my build that I played on ranked to light what I wanted to say. And I hope that experience Revenants know what am I talking about. >> https://tinyurl.com/y746nxl6 <<

IMO the most needed basic stuff that condi mallyx needs is some sort of defence on mallyx.My proposition after all these games I played is to give Pain Absortion 1s of block during casting a skill like guardians Shelter. This is a huge adition but compare to shiro RS, PA sucks a lot, yes it is a break stun, it is ez resistance to u and ure allies but compare to RS when u break stun, evade backward, remove three conditions, and gain a fury wich BTW is a great combo with invocation traits. PA for the same cost give us really nothing.

I really wonder what u guys thinking. Mallyx since Revenant realease was the worst treated basic rev legend (even ventari gained more), I hope that ANET even when they dont wanna do make more important changes/rework to rev, they at least look into underperformed legends a bit. Watching what they did with shiro, which I really love after all these patches I strongly believe.

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The reasons why it is not good:

  1. It was the hardest nerfed condi build, when Anet, in their infinite wisdom, decided to significantly increase the ramp-up on condis. This also came right after mace 3 was nerfed by roughly 30%. Damage is pretty crappy.
  2. The damage application of ground targeting is extremely unreliable in PvP. It used to be somewhat manageable, when condi rev used to hit hard. Now it is pretty meh. AOE damage was supposed to be condi rev main strength. Now, it is one of its weaknesses.
  3. Long cast times. Mace 2, mace 3 and UA all have 0.75 sec cast. This is a significant issue for heavy melee build.
  4. Extremely reliant on resistance and stability. Boon strip/corrupt is a complete shut down.
  5. Limited mobility. It has UA and swiftness, but UA range is small, it costs too much energy and is primarily used for damage. Swiftness is always good, but alone, does not make a class mobile.

In summary, you are a scourge, with no range, less damage, much weaker AOE and much slower condi ramp-up.

To be fair, if you remove necro and thief, it performs okayish. One necro can be a complete shut-down.

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@otto.5684 said:The reasons why it is not good:

  1. It was the hardest nerfed condi build, when Anet, in their infinite wisdom, decided to significantly increase the ramp-up on condis. This also came right after mace 3 was nerfed by roughly 30%. Damage is pretty crappy.
  2. The damage application of ground targeting is extremely unreliable in PvP. It used to be somewhat manageable, when condi rev used to hit hard. Now it is pretty meh. AOE damage was supposed to be condi rev main strength. Now, it is one of its weaknesses.
  3. Long cast times. Mace 2, mace 3 and UA all have 0.75 sec cast. This is a significant issue for heavy melee build.
  4. Extremely reliant on resistance and stability. Boon strip/corrupt is a complete shut down.
  5. Limited mobility. It has UA and swiftness, but UA range is small, it costs too much energy and is primarily used for damage. Swiftness is always good, but alone, does not make a class mobile.

In summary, you are a scourge, with no range, less damage, much weaker AOE and much slower condi ramp-up.

To be fair, if you remove necro and thief, it performs okayish. One necro can be a complete shut-down.

Now that we have a condi transfer the condi scourge matchup is more fair. At this point I'm more afraid of power reaper.

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