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WvW NPC Rework


Seffen.2875

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First of all, this is still in the state of an idea. So don't think this is a full finished proposal but rather add Things that you think make sense.

After Karmatraining this morning, i once again realised how useless and dull most of the npc opponents in WvW are. Their over all power Level is Close to Zero and only the Lord gives a good Body but nothing else.

Still they are quite a part of the wvw and i would like them to be a more interactional part. There are several Things/changes that come to my mind when thining about this:

Raise the Sentry power Level. Either raise it over all to a "POF Ability Point" power Level or make them upgrade like every five Minute. first stage like it is now. second stage pof power Level third stage hot ability Point power Level (means you Need like 3 to 5 Person to kill them or rather one really skilled)

Tower and Garrison guards Need their damage against siege to be raised by a really significant amount. So much they can actually clear the siege in an reasonable amount of time. Maybe even so much they can mess with your siege if you dont clear them. Around 20 to 30 percent of the max hp per hit.If the structure is upgraded maybe add some elite guards to Groups. WvW is a Team mode.

And finally make Lords less Body focused and more mechanic focused. Like you did on the new desert border but with mechanics that actually hurt if you don't obey them. On desert border they are either too weak or there is almost no real Counter.

What Comes to my mind are the Vale Guard mechanics. They are pretty fair and easy to learn and can be countered but will give you a hard time if you dont act accordingly.

Maybe there is not enough place for such mechanics in Tower lordroom but in keeps for sure.

feel free to add.

Edit:

After all the Responses i might want to clarify that i do not want the Lords to be harder to kill. Just more challenging, especially for Groups. Maybe give them Elite specs (like the harpys) and give them mechanics when it Comes to zergs.Something like: mechanics activate only when 20+ People are inside a Special area that is a bit bigger than the cap circle so the Lord can't be drawn to the edge. But again they get deactivated when the Opponent has 20 + People inside the circle. Reduce the healthpool for that.

As for camps maybe just add elite specs to make the fight more interesting. Nothing big. I don't want to make fights impossible. I just want them to be a bit more entertaining.

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Oh, with the thread title I thought this was going to be about streamlining all of the different merchant/bank NPCs at the various spawn areas. I was excited for a brief moment.

No, I don't want to defend the hylek turrets, or stand in the green circles, or CC on the third bite. I'm not in favor of adding more unneeded bells and whistles to this gamemode, (especially when you might be forced to deal with them whilst fending off a defending zerg,) and I'm especially not enthralled with the idea of making things more difficult for solo roamers and people new to the game. (I'm told there's quite the learning curve.) I don't want luggage, I want substance. Some of the pve mechanics in this game make me want to cry already, so if I'm not going to get a fight from the enemy team I'll take my karma and move on.

@Brother.1504 Lol. Though now that you pull out the hyperbole, I wouldn't be against some of this stuff for gimmick weekends.

~ Kovu

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Oh.. I thought I wondered into the PvE section. Speaking of NPCs... I would pay the hours spent by ANet devs to lower how frequent the Scouts freaking blind you. Nothing is worst than trying to take a camp, and then have to deal with 2 actual players and have a billion blinds on you.

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The npc's skill lineup could be improved. They did touch their AI about a year ago slightly.

However, they should not be made something to focused as wvw is about player vs player not player vs guards. The guards are more or less throw away defenders to harass. The lords are health pillows as a point of contention beyond blobs one shotting that one brave guy while his allies press 1 from 1200 range.

They could replace the Lords with stactic objects that needed to be broken for the capture ring to pop up. They just made it a little more dangerous to 1-3 players.

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@Kovu.7560 said:Oh, with the thread title I thought this was going to be about streamlining all of the different merchant/bank NPCs at the various spawn areas. I was excited for a brief moment.

No, I don't want to defend the hylek turrets, or stand in the green circles, or CC on the third bite. I'm not in favor of adding more unneeded bells and whistles to this gamemode, (especially when you might be forced to deal with them whilst fending off a defending zerg,) and I'm especially not enthralled with the idea of making things more difficult for solo roamers and people new to the game. (I'm told there's quite the learning curve.) I don't want luggage, I want substance. Some of the pve mechanics in this game make me want to cry already, so if I'm not going to get a fight from the enemy team I'll take my karma and move on.

@"Brother.1504" Lol. Though now that you pull out the hyperbole, I wouldn't be against some of this stuff for gimmick weekends.

~ Kovu

Actually those exist. Theyre called harpy spellbreakers, they can solo kill a full zerk ele EASILY. Plus, they have a spellbreaker bubble. Read and weep

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harpy_Spellbreaker

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In the game city of heroes. When pvp zones were outmanned for ether team, heroes or arch villains would spawn and attack hostile control points. Basically raid boss lvl strength helping the outmanned team. The longer the map was outmanned the more of these type mobs would spawn. Generally you avoided them as they could 1 1/2 shot you from full if you were solo. Think legendary mobs capping towers solo and waiting at the open tower until the friendly outmanned team capped it. Very powerful npcs.

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@Nikon.3921 said:Oh.. I thought I wondered into the PvE section. Speaking of NPCs... I would pay the hours spent by ANet devs to lower how frequent the Scouts freaking blind you. Nothing is worst than trying to take a camp, and then have to deal with 2 actual players and have a billion blinds on you.Those stupid tree mobs near SMC have a knack for deciding to immob you at the worst time, too. But yeah, I HATE scout blinds.

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I'd rather players be able to take the role of NPC's.

For sentries, you would gain no stats, but you gain the special action key to mark enemies (large ground target AoE, large range). You'd gain a bonus bag for every yak kill and every player kill.

For camps, you'd gain only health, and there would be NO other npc's (you are just the supervisor). You'd gain a bonus bag for every yak that makes it to an untiered objective.

For towers/keeps, you'd gain a lot of health, a break bar, damage (% based, so tanks don't get a lot of damage), and an increased target cap for all offensive abilities. You can stay within the structure and invisible barriers will teleport you back to the lord's room if you try to leave. You'll gain bonus bags when the structure tiers up, and for any successful defense event.

All of these will have a defined area that the player will be allowed to roam in (does not match gliding area). Leaving it (or disconnecting) will boot you from the role and place a debuff (Desertion) that prevents you from gaining Pips and taking any NPC role for 30 minutes. If you wish to stand down from the NPC role, you may go to the nearest Quartermaster and choose a Stand Down option.

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@"Kiroshima.8497" said:I'd rather players be able to take the role of NPC's.

For sentries, you would gain no stats, but you gain the special action key to mark enemies (large ground target AoE, large range). You'd gain a bonus bag for every yak kill and every player kill.

For camps, you'd gain only health, and there would be NO other npc's (you are just the supervisor). You'd gain a bonus bag for every yak that makes it to an untiered objective.

For towers/keeps, you'd gain a lot of health, a break bar, damage (% based, so tanks don't get a lot of damage), and an increased target cap for all offensive abilities. You can stay within the structure and invisible barriers will teleport you back to the lord's room if you try to leave. You'll gain bonus bags when the structure tiers up, and for any successful defense event.

All of these will have a defined area that the player will be allowed to roam in (does not match gliding area). Leaving it (or disconnecting) will boot you from the role and place a debuff (Desertion) that prevents you from gaining Pips and taking any NPC role for 30 minutes. If you wish to stand down from the NPC role, you may go to the nearest Quartermaster and choose a Stand Down option.

It should be free choice, not forced. If they limit me on where I can go solely on the fact it's my "role" now, I'm leaving this game totally. If you want to sit in a tower for 8 hours going between that a sentry and a camp like someone with no life, so be it. But anytime I see those players, I wanna slit my wrists on their behalf. What a boring way to spend your time playing this game-mode. This suggested mechanic is more like a job with no pay than actual entertainment.

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@Kiroshima.8497 said:Umm, I never implied forced. Be able aka the option to.

I'd like it if I'm roaming or havocing camps, especially since when you're defending a camp your opponent can rally off the guards if they're strategic about it.

My apologizes, I read that all wrong. I see where you are going with it. I'm still not a fan, but I'm sorry for originally miss understanding your suggestion.

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Making the NPCs harder to kill sounds like a really bad idea. They will become highly inefficient to take down for roamers, effectively killing that role entirely. Camp Supervisors could PERHAPS get a breakbar or something and a bit more health because they are only slightly stronger than the other guards.

Soloing camps can actually be quite challenging without knowledge of how to line of sight and pull mobs on a corner to stack them, or without the right build and you keep getting stunned/blinded etc. Not something most players are concerned with anymore, but I see any changes that would make it significantly harder to solo a camp as very negative.

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I lean both ways on this, while on one side I don't think guards should get in the way between PvP fights, it could also be used in other situations as a variation of handicap system when the populations are uneven. That, and the npc's (guard camps etc) are already stronger than just about any npc in PVE in this game already... which is just weird.

Something I'd like to see with NPC's anyways, is updating their skills so they are in general more efficient against groups of players, instead of being super annoying to single persons (single target blind and imob, constantly). Let them instead have abilities that scale to the number of enemy players, though now I'm imaging 3 camp guards imob and blind spam an entire zerg, that would be fun to watch.

Still think the game should adopt some ideas from Aion, and have NPC's act like a balancer to outnumbering, where if one team starts winning strongly, waves of strong NPC's comes attacking their backlines, forcing them to defend. If done well, it should give the outnubered teams a relief, and give the bored defenders in home BL something to do. Heck, the NPC is probably going to be better at "splitting up an taking objectives" than humans are ;)

At the same time, would like to see a system where npc's sorta "get lost" when there are lots of players around... but can't come up with any good ideas, that wouldn't feel weird.

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@ Seffen.2875 (original post)I don't think that NPCs should be stronger when it comes to combat mechanics.There is one exception: the Righteous Indignation buff should be a lot stronger. With so many blocks and evades + massive boons in game, a current meta build on most professions can completely ignore the RI buff and kill the other NPCs. When WvW was fresh, RI meant a serious danger to you and squishy professions were almost one-shot by RI attacks.

What I would like to see is more "player initiated NPC activity" to diversify the tasks on the map. If you interact with an NPC, this NPC would do a task that is beneficial to your side and should be stopped by the opposing force. WvW had a few of those things in the past that could make a return

  • Quaggan raid party on old Alpine (you collected pearls for them in the water, gave them to quaggan, liberated the central island from Krait and then a raid party would tag either Hills or Bay with a small skirmish attack. If the keep already was yours, they would strengthen the guards.
  • Siegerazor (if you lost your "base tower" you could spawn a powerful NPC that marches slowly to the gate and drops a ram + defends the ram while you attack and invade the tower)

Skritt and centaurs could be bribed (a use for supply) to attack the close-by camp and turn it neutral (skritt and centaurs need to be defeated to reclaim the camp for your colour). Sentinels could be supplied (the first aid kit spot) with a "signal horn", which allows the sentinel to mark a foe at a larger radius; a bandit, standing in the middle of the monuments could be paid to occupy a monument for your colour, which would make claiming bloodlust easier for one person.If all of those activities were played out, you would be able to get an upper hand on an enemy, that is just balling up with huge numbers. It s also mechanic that will bring back supply as a needed resource in WvW, the way it was before auto-upgrades.

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@Brother.1504 said:In the game city of heroes. When pvp zones were outmanned for ether team, heroes or arch villains would spawn and attack hostile control points. Basically raid boss lvl strength helping the outmanned team. The longer the map was outmanned the more of these type mobs would spawn. Generally you avoided them as they could 1 1/2 shot you from full if you were solo. Think legendary mobs capping towers solo and waiting at the open tower until the friendly outmanned team capped it. Very powerful npcs.

Duno how Anet would do that here, mob with huge health pool ? and we already have Siegerazor that nobody uses anymore :\That legendary mob would easilly be killed and/or tanked.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Brother.1504 said:In the game city of heroes. When pvp zones were outmanned for ether team, heroes or arch villains would spawn and attack hostile control points. Basically raid boss lvl strength helping the outmanned team. The longer the map was outmanned the more of these type mobs would spawn. Generally you avoided them as they could 1 1/2 shot you from full if you were solo. Think legendary mobs capping towers solo and waiting at the open tower until the friendly outmanned team capped it. Very powerful npcs.

Duno how Anet would do that here, mob with huge health pool ? and we already have Siegerazor that nobody uses anymore :\That legendary mob would easilly be killed and/or tanked.

Siege razor was never powerful enough and needing so many people to activate him defeated his purpose. Buff the npcs enough to make them legitimately dangerous.

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@Brother.1504 said:

@Brother.1504 said:In the game city of heroes. When pvp zones were outmanned for ether team, heroes or arch villains would spawn and attack hostile control points. Basically raid boss lvl strength helping the outmanned team. The longer the map was outmanned the more of these type mobs would spawn. Generally you avoided them as they could 1 1/2 shot you from full if you were solo. Think legendary mobs capping towers solo and waiting at the open tower until the friendly outmanned team capped it. Very powerful npcs.

Duno how Anet would do that here, mob with huge health pool ? and we already have Siegerazor that nobody uses anymore :\That legendary mob would easilly be killed and/or tanked.

Siege razor was never powerful enough and needing so many people to activate him defeated his purpose. Buff the npcs enough to make them legitimately dangerous.

I would love that that KEY NPC were stronger ( not with the actuall state of the game), but theres people already crying they cant solo towers nor cap a t2 t3 camp and want npc more easy... I thing Anet would rather make stuff useless than actually make the game require more skill or effort from the players.

And with some stuff on this game that are still beta game state (it feels this way)... i would not prefer to get more imcomplete mechanics or pacebos aded to the game :scream:

Anet lost all the quality when they moved from Gw1 to gw2.

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