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is it underwater or cantha?


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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:While I agree that the elder dragons being the good guys is unlikely, we've had plenty of indication that the human gods aren't either.

The gods are presented as fallable, not wholly evil. The only god made to be wholly evil was Dhuum, while Abaddon and Balthazar are both gods who were good but fell from grace, and we know that Lyssa and Grenth are more neutral than either good or evil. But both Dwayna and Melandru are never really presented with anything less than being good and kind beings.

@"Pifil.5193" said:I don't know, he came from there, maybe he simply likes sleeping there? ;)

I mean, I'm assuming that these dragons have some kind of "lair". He's pretty full of yummy magic now so maybe he's getting sleepy?

Also I'm not sure about the brand, I mean if he brands whereever he goes then shouldn't the entire region have a lot more brand? I get the impression that branding is not free for him and costs him magically, also maybe he prefers being in his brand in much the same way as an amphibian so he may be inclined to go back up his current brand.I don't know.

Regardless, I don't think we'll be chasing
him
down specifically but rather going back to his "source" and deploying some kind of asuran gewgaw to deus-ex machina him back to sleepy sleeps.

Kralkatorrik was never in the Shiverpeaks, but east of them in the Blood Legion Homelands (by map marking); and there's no reason he would be getting sleepy now that he ate a lot, despite common misconception the Elder Dragons do not go to sleep when they ate a lot of magic but rather when there's no more magic to be eaten (the latter causes the former, but the former will not cause the latter).

Yeah that's why I said the expansion would bring us to the Blood Legion homelands and the far shiverpeaks (which border them) to deal with Krakaltorik. I missed that you were talking about far Shiverpeaks and not the Blood Legion homelands.

And he does seem to brand wherever he goes now that he has even more magic; there seems to be little brand where he woke up and began flying, but the novel Edge of Destiny does depict him creating the Dragonbrand by breathing golden fire on the land, while post-PoF he's shown as branding by simply flying over (this could be an indication of how Kralkatorrik utilizes Zhaitan's sphere of shadow since it's only what his shadow touched that got branded).

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Perhaps not, but I think we're OK there. We got from Lion's Arch to the Crystal Desert, after all and it's a similar journey from Istan to Cantha and apparently corsairs can field airships readily enough so whatever the fuel is it can't be all that exotic. All that's assuming you can't simply sail from Istan to Cantha the old fashioned way.

Based on the map of the globe from Season 2, going from LA to Amnoon (which has plenty of places to stop to refuel, such as Fort Trinity) is not even half the distance as between Istan (fully hostile territory to anyone who could own an airship but corsairs) and Cantha.

Now it is, however after we defeat Joko it may not be.

Regardless, fuel may be an issue but may not be. We don't know what the fuel is, or if fuel is even relevant.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Tyria_%28world%29_map_2.png

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@"perilisk.1874" said:Don't the Forgotten predate both the gods and the Elder Dragons?

The Elder Dragons predate everything on Tyria (as far as we players know). The Forgotten came to Tyria from the Mists (and if the timeline from GW1 remains accurately, it wouldn't have been too long before the gods or humanity arrived either); the timeline of the previous dragonrise (which includes the Forgotten's involvement) is a bit iffy due to non-clarified retcons and a constant back and forth between "10,000 years ago" and "3,000 years ago".

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@Pifil.5193 said:Also, we have airships now so we don't really need to worry too much about the Deep Sea anything in order to get to Cantha. Or of course we could simply reestablish the Asura gate network links to Cantha, maybe we'll get to do that during LW Season 5.

Unless Bubbles takes down our airships as Mordremoth did. Then all those ships and our naval fleet will be wreckage in the ocean... and forced to traverse and survive the open waters. We'll need to acquire new skills and masteries to navigate and travel under water more efficiently, and we'll discover a new race or city UW that can help us.

Once we survive the journey to Cantha, we can finally get up to speed on what's going on on the continent and handle the issue with the new Emperor who has taken over. We can see how the Kurzicks and Luxons are dealing with the state of things, see the liquidating Jade Sea, and then just as we start to re-establish Cantha's connection to the outside world... WOOOOOOOOOSHHHHH!!! SPLASHHHH!!! TIDAL WAVES AND CHAOS!!!!! Cities wiped out and washed away leaving behind DSD minions to clean up any survivors and claim lands!

Then what appears at first to be another massive wave... is actually just the TIP of DSD's tail as it plunders back into the ocean! The dragon is ready. And now we must prepare for THEE fight of our existence. A battle only imagined in our greatest nightmares... For the fate of Cantha... and the entire world!

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:While I agree that the elder dragons being the good guys is unlikely, we've had plenty of indication that the human gods aren't either.

The gods are presented as fallable, not wholly evil. The only god made to be wholly evil was Dhuum, while Abaddon and Balthazar are both gods who were good but fell from grace, and we know that Lyssa and Grenth are more neutral than either good or evil. But both Dwayna and Melandru are never really presented with anything less than being good and kind beings.

@"Pifil.5193" said:I don't know, he came from there, maybe he simply likes sleeping there? ;)

I mean, I'm assuming that these dragons have some kind of "lair". He's pretty full of yummy magic now so maybe he's getting sleepy?

Also I'm not sure about the brand, I mean if he brands whereever he goes then shouldn't the entire region have a lot more brand? I get the impression that branding is not free for him and costs him magically, also maybe he prefers being in his brand in much the same way as an amphibian so he may be inclined to go back up his current brand.I don't know.

Regardless, I don't think we'll be chasing
him
down specifically but rather going back to his "source" and deploying some kind of asuran gewgaw to deus-ex machina him back to sleepy sleeps.

Kralkatorrik was never in the Shiverpeaks, but east of them in the Blood Legion Homelands (by map marking); and there's no reason he would be getting sleepy now that he ate a lot, despite common misconception the Elder Dragons do not go to sleep when they ate a lot of magic but rather when there's no more magic to be eaten (the latter causes the former, but the former will not cause the latter).

And he does seem to brand wherever he goes now that he has even more magic; there seems to be little brand where he woke up and began flying, but the novel Edge of Destiny does depict him creating the Dragonbrand by breathing golden fire on the land, while post-PoF he's shown as branding by simply flying over (this could be an indication of how Kralkatorrik utilizes Zhaitan's sphere of shadow since it's only what his shadow touched that got branded).

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Perhaps not, but I think we're OK there. We got from Lion's Arch to the Crystal Desert, after all and it's a similar journey from Istan to Cantha and apparently corsairs can field airships readily enough so whatever the fuel is it can't be all that exotic. All that's assuming you can't simply sail from Istan to Cantha the old fashioned way.

Based on the map of the globe from Season 2, going from LA to Amnoon (which has plenty of places to stop to refuel, such as Fort Trinity) is not even half the distance as between Istan (fully hostile territory to anyone who could own an airship but corsairs) and Cantha.

I didn't say evil, I implied that the gods "aren't the good guys" they're flawed and not a major force for good anymore. IIRC Anet even said something along the lines of power corrupts, and leads to hubris etc.. So at this point I wouldn't even bat an eye if another goes the way of Balthazar.

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@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I didn't say evil, I implied that the gods "aren't the good guys" they're flawed and not a major force for good anymore. IIRC Anet even said something along the lines of power corrupts, and leads to hubris etc.. So at this point I wouldn't even bat an eye if another goes the way of Balthazar.

sorudo, who sparked the discussion, suggested for the gods to be the "main villains of the story", which would basically mean either evil or disagreeably neutral (though given Anet's writing, the latter won't ever occur - Balthazar was the closest we'd ever gotten but slaughtering hundreds/thousands of innocents is hardly a non-evil act). Going "the way of Balthazar" would also be going evil.

Given how cringe inducing it was for Balthazar to, inexplicably, turn evil, I would bat an eye if another does, even Grenth or Lyssa.

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@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I didn't say evil, I implied that the gods "aren't the good guys" they're flawed and not a major force for good anymore. IIRC Anet even said something along the lines of power corrupts, and leads to hubris etc.. So at this point I wouldn't even bat an eye if another goes the way of Balthazar.

I have a different reading on that, based on what Kormir said to my character in the library during PoF.

! She said that the gods had stepped away from the world because (simplifying a bit) they were afraid that intervening against the dragons would break / destroy the world. Of course, she also said that Balthazar didn't agree, which is why / how he ended up in the Mists, being freed by that idiot charr.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I didn't say evil, I implied that the gods "aren't the good guys" they're flawed and not a major force for good anymore. IIRC Anet even said something along the lines of power corrupts, and leads to hubris etc.. So at this point I wouldn't even bat an eye if another goes the way of Balthazar.

sorudo, who sparked the discussion, suggested for the gods to be the "main villains of the story", which would basically mean either evil or disagreeably neutral (though given Anet's writing, the latter won't ever occur - Balthazar was the closest we'd ever gotten but slaughtering hundreds/thousands of innocents is hardly a non-evil act). Going "the way of Balthazar" would also be going evil.

Given how cringe inducing it was for Balthazar to, inexplicably, turn evil, I would bat an eye if another does, even Grenth or Lyssa.

Yeah, also it'd be especially lame if the next villain pull off a mask and say "aha, it's me, Lyssa I didn't really leave after all!" after Kormir's big "we have to leave, you're on your own but you have the power inside you if you just believe" speech.

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Underwater focused combat and yet another love letter to gw1 players would leave me a little cold at this point. I don't enjoy the under water combat at all and needing to watch dozens of Wooden Potatoes videos just to keep up with the story (as I had to for LS3.6+PoF) was one of my knocks against the last expansion.

I'd like to see somewhere the franchise hasn't been before.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Pimpology.6234 said:So do people hate underwater combat because of the skills or the x-y-z axis fighting?It's a bit of all the above between the mobility, x-y-z fighting, and the skills. They improved a bit of both mobility and skills in the patch, though IMO not enough, but hopefully there's more to come.

Is it really that difficult for people to navigate underwater and learn how to use an x-y-z axis for fighting in a game...when you have to do it in real life? Pick an object, any object and make it your focus point, everything should fall into place from there. As for the skills, I personally never had any problems with them, at least on those characters I play most often, but then again I think it's a personal preference whether or not you'd be affected or be able to handle it.

@"Pifil.5193" said:I'd say so too. I would say we'll go to Kourna during LS4 ending with the defeat of Joko and then off to the Blood Legion Homelands and the far Shiverpeaks for the next expansion to deal with Kralkatorrik. Primordus and Jormag have both been effectively written out of the story during LS3 maybe we'll similarly deal with the DSD while dealing with Kralk.Why would Kralkatorrik go to the Far Shiverpeaks (where Jormag is)? Seems weird suddenly cut back across the continent (not to mention that would mean branding old maps which since they're "stuck in time" I doubt Anet would do).

Primordus and Jormag were put on the bus, but in such a way that they can literally return at any moment given that Elder Dragons rise when their minions gather enough magic for them, and they both have thousands of minions out and about.

Yeah, it also probably displaced the karka way back in 2012 so I'd say it's and its minions are a lot closer to core Tyria than Cantha (especially as core Tyria contains or contained all the
other
elder dragons).

Also, we have airships now so we don't really need to worry too much about the Deep Sea anything in order to get to Cantha. Or of course we could simply reestablish the Asura gate network links to Cantha, maybe we'll get to do that during LW Season 5.

indicate the karka were pushed out of their homelands about 150 years ago and had been sitting on the Ring of Fire until Zhaitan's death (roughly). As for airships, those may not work - depends on how far one can travel with whatever fuel they use. It's a multi-week trip on boat, so there may not be enough airship fuel for the trip.

~snip~If you recall when they had the Southsun Cove event and the Karka attack on Lions Arch it was mentioned that something big had disturbed the Karka's homeland and driven them out, but it wasn't 150 years ago, and even Sayeh(the Largos in the Personal Story) talks about, though very vaguely and indirectly, so I think it's a lot sooner than we think; heck, I think even some Quaggans talk about it.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"perilisk.1874" said:Don't the Forgotten predate both the gods and the Elder Dragons?

The Elder Dragons predate everything on Tyria (as far as we players know). The Forgotten came to Tyria from the Mists (and if the timeline from GW1 remains accurately, it wouldn't have been too long before the gods or humanity arrived either); the timeline of the previous dragonrise (which includes the Forgotten's involvement) is a bit iffy due to non-clarified retcons and a constant back and forth between "10,000 years ago" and "3,000 years ago".

Do you mean that the Charr, Asura, Dwarves, pretty much all the non-human races are not native to Tyria?

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I do think we will get both eventually (together or seperate), but I don't think it is already in the next expansion. Seems Kralkatorrik might be next?Cantha would most likely be somewhat human centric again and that might not be a good move atm.I think the next expansion would do well to be centric to either, norn, charr or asura, since sylvari and human have had that... when it comes to expanding on lore at least.

Honestly though the next expansion can be pretty much anything... a lot and I really mean a lot can happen in LS4 still changing where we might have to go.This update and the jackal skin means absolutely nothing... at least not yet. Might aswell say the exosuit mount set indicates an asura centric expansion.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:Is it really that difficult for people to navigate underwater and learn how to use an x-y-z axis for fighting in a game...when you have to do it in real life? Pick an object, any object and make it your focus point, everything should fall into place from there. As for the skills, I personally never had any problems with them, at least on those characters I play most often, but then again I think it's a personal preference whether or not you'd be affected or be able to handle it.

No but people tend to be a) lazy, b) conformists (hating things that are different), and 3) bandwagon riders

@Zaklex.6308 said:If you recall when they had the Southsun Cove event and the Karka attack on Lions Arch it was mentioned that something big had disturbed the Karka's homeland and driven them out, but it wasn't 150 years ago, and even Sayeh(the Largos in the Personal Story) talks about, though very vaguely and indirectly, so I think it's a lot sooner than we think; heck, I think even some Quaggans talk about it.

I remember the Southsun event. But those eggs have flavor text outright suggesting they've been there since Zhaitan's awakening, roughly 150 years ago. Furthermore, we know from The Machine cinematic that the DSD likely woke up 200 years ago (this would also fit the pattern of Elder Dragons awakening - except for Primordus and Kralkatorrik due to killed/traitored heralds, the Elder Dragons woke up every 50 years, those two with dead/betraying heralds woke up 50 years later, proven via Primordus, and "overlapped" with two other Elder Dragons who still had heralds; DSD and Mordy respectively)

I don't think Sayeh ever makes mention of the DSD though, you may be thinking of Master Sdias in Mount Maelstrom who does.

@Endless Soul.5178 said:Do you mean that the Charr, Asura, Dwarves, pretty much all the non-human races are not native to Tyria?

We don't know what races are or aren't native, but give nthe Six Gods had terraformed the world shortly after the last dragonrise, it's a good chance many species are. Dwarves and charr, though, are likely not unless there were travelers from the Mists before the previous dragonrise (not impossible given the mursaat's magic).

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actually, within my design the gods really left, however, when the new race comes up you find out that the gods tried to claim this world for themselves.there was a war and this new race was forced to hide from their view far underground, when they left they could finally get back up land after being in cryo for 20.000 years. (they are highly advanced)the problem with the dragons is that the gods tried to get rid of them but they are far to powerful to just fight off, as you know from later on (SPOILER PART!!!!) they left because they simply can't win.

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I hope for Cantha and a Ritualist class or at least Elite spec but ANet doesn't seem to go the Cantha route anytime soon (ever).

Nevertheless PoF is barely 8 months old, the announcement of the next expansion is +8-12 months away and the release more than a year so... why even bother.

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The thing you forgot to put on the poll; both. The whole reason, lore wise, we can't go to Cantha is because of the Deep Sea Dragon. So the expansion that takes us there is going to have to deal with him. And dealing with him means no small amount of underwater content. Thus, if you actually stop to think about it, the Cantha expansion IS the underwater expansion.

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I see no reason why they would suddenly move us to an entirely new worldmap (Cantha) when the current map hasn't even been filled out yet.

I also think it's unlikely that we'll be getting an entire underwater area, but I'd say there's a fair chance that we could be getting some areas that are a little more focussed on water exploration, perhaps with a new underwater mount or update to the skinner.

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Anet wants all their gameplay be accessible and acceptable. I applaud everything they are doing g and trying to do to make this game even better. I even applaud anet for the updates they made graphically to the original gw for no apparent reason but maybe for love. Keep up the good work and make me a flying pegasus so I can throw down another 2000 gems.

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I feel like underwater and Cantha are connected so both is a clear choice for me.As we get underwater maps AND land maps over at Cantha, we hopefully get to know more about Selbbub (deep sea dragon) aswell what happened at Cantha.Aaaand we will get to know why Tengu got banned, along from every other non-human living being and shut out the rest of the world from them. (Please become playable!❤)Also Largos, during our time underwater, they got a similar system just like the Kurzicks had with Houses.

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