Best Class to Improve SPVP Skills?

[Temper.2190]

I'm looking for recommendations on a class to focus on if my goal is to improve my spvp game. Some background: I only really started pvp in Season 10, when I decided that instead of playing to get gear, I wanted to play to get better at playing my class. I played Mesmer (power shatter mirage and condi mirage), as well as power Rev in Season 10, and hovered around Silver 3. I don't have a lot of time to play (job, kids, real life...) so I play for short bursts of 30-60 minutes at a go, which fits nicely with solo queue pvp. I've been a little bored of my mesmer, and hated the chrono meta build, so this season I've been playing around with a bunch of different builds, including meta thief (S/D and D/P), warrior (spellbreaker and core axe/GS), guardian (meditrapper and core) as well as occasionally playing my rev.

I have both mechanical weaknesses (I'm not that experienced at any one class) and strategic weaknesses (I'm still getting rotations and map awareness down), but want to get better.

So....my question for you more experienced folks is: which class would be best to focus on, if my goal is to get better at pvp? If I want to focus on one class to make it easier to build up mechanical skills, then what class would reward me most in terms of learning rotations and strategy? Note I'm not just looking to climb the ladder. I want to learn and feel like I'm making an impact on each match I play. I want to have a better understanding of why my team wins or loses, and some ability to carry.

Right now I'm strongly considering the following. (1) Thief, as it forces me to think about strategy and rotation, since it can't handle sustained fighting. I enjoy the mobility of thief.However, it is clear that thief takes a bit of time to learn well. (2) Warrior, as it seems to be a fairly simple class mechanically, which will let me learn the class and strategy perhaps more easily. However, I don't want to just sit at side nodes and 1v1 - I want a class that has a role in team fights and is able to make an impact on many aspects of a match. I'll also consider any other class. I've played Mesmer, Rev, Ele, and Guardian, but have zero experience on Engi and Necro.

Is any class as good as any other? Or do you see one class that might lead to faster improvement in my pvp skills.

[Karras.2945]

@Temper.2190 said:So....my question for you more experienced folks is: which class would be best to focus on, if my goal is to get better at pvp? If I want to focus on one class to make it easier to build up mechanical skills, then what class would reward me most in terms of learning rotations and strategy? Note I'm not just looking to climb the ladder. I want to learn and feel like I'm making an impact on each match I play. I want to have a better understanding of why my team wins or loses, and some ability to carry.

The profession that is the most rewarding when it comes to learning rotations and strategy is core power engineer. It may sound odd, but engineer is without a doubt the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in the game. Elementalist comes close, but nothing compares to core power engineer.

The reason for me saying that it rewards you for learning skill rotations is that core power engineer uses kits. 3 kit builds make engineer the profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game: memorizing cooldown on certain skills, using blast finishers in certain combo fields etc. Especially when you consider that the Med Kit got reworked and it's actually great, it just bumped up the engineers' skill ceiling to 11. I'm currently using the Med Kit in PvP along with 3 other kits and I got the most healing stat at the end of a match, even without using Mender's Amulet.

Keep in mind, this is not an easy profession for you to play, but in my opinion is the most rewarding. It's a lot more rewarding than Holosmith.

[Temper.2190]

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have a core engineer bills you are running?

[Cougre.6543]

Play warrior, it's the class that you have to think the least about what skills you're using, so you can pay attention to rotations and such.

[Dralor.3701]

Engi is pretty challenging. If you want to get better at rotations+1 thief.

[pah.4931]

I could see it both ways.

Play something easy (I'd say, warrior or guardian) to just get a bunch of games in while paying attention to why your team or the opposing team is winning... while still being able to help and have fun and not get wrecked completely.

Or play something hard that really punishes mistakes (d/p thief and power rev, I think)... working on being a patient +1er and decapper, while trying to finish games with no more than 2 deaths.

My take.

[allias.1420]

play thief, like others have said it enables you to learn rotations pretty well and improves your reaction times, mechanical skill etc. Don't be disheartened if you lose and die a lot as a thief, you can only learn from failing

[Leodon.1564]

The answer is always MesmerThief.I think invis is invaluable when it comes to staying alive longer in the battlefield which in turn will help you to observe what's going on around you more on a macro level.

[Crinn.7864]

Depends on what you are trying to learn.

Want to learn how properly use dodges? Play necro.Want to learn how to rotate? Play thief or Mesmer.Want to learn how to be aware of and assist allies? Play Guardian.Want to learn 1v1 and offnoding? Play Warrior.

[Cifrer.6013]

I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

[Crab Fear.1624]

To improve pvp skills? Gotta play them all. You can pick a favorite, but you need an inoculation to all professions.

[EUmad.7645]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Temper.2190 said:So....my question for you more experienced folks is: which class would be best to focus on, if my goal is to get better at pvp? If I want to focus on one class to make it easier to build up mechanical skills, then what class would reward me most in terms of learning rotations and strategy? Note I'm not just looking to climb the ladder. I want to learn and feel like I'm making an impact on each match I play. I want to have a better understanding of why my team wins or loses, and some ability to carry.

The profession that is the most rewarding when it comes to learning rotations and strategy is core power engineer. It may sound odd, but engineer is without a doubt the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in the game. Elementalist comes close, but nothing compares to core power engineer.Condi core engineer now is harder than power one imho

[Karras.2945]

@EUmad.7645 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Temper.2190 said:So....my question for you more experienced folks is: which class would be best to focus on, if my goal is to get better at pvp? If I want to focus on one class to make it easier to build up mechanical skills, then what class would reward me most in terms of learning rotations and strategy? Note I'm not just looking to climb the ladder. I want to learn and feel like I'm making an impact on each match I play. I want to have a better understanding of why my team wins or loses, and some ability to carry.

The profession that is the most rewarding when it comes to learning rotations and strategy is core power engineer. It may sound odd, but engineer is without a doubt the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in the game. Elementalist comes close, but nothing compares to core power engineer.Condi core engineer now is harder than power one imho

I've never been a fan of condition builds. I've always played power.

[Karras.2945]

@"Temper.2190" said:Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have a core engineer bills you are running?

Yes, I do. You can check it on Metabattle. It's called the Jack of all trades.

Also, please press the Quote button so I'll be notified if I receive messages towards me.

[EUmad.7645]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@EUmad.7645 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Temper.2190 said:So....my question for you more experienced folks is: which class would be best to focus on, if my goal is to get better at pvp? If I want to focus on one class to make it easier to build up mechanical skills, then what class would reward me most in terms of learning rotations and strategy? Note I'm not just looking to climb the ladder. I want to learn and feel like I'm making an impact on each match I play. I want to have a better understanding of why my team wins or loses, and some ability to carry.

The profession that is the most rewarding when it comes to learning rotations and strategy is core power engineer. It may sound odd, but engineer is without a doubt the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in the game. Elementalist comes close, but nothing compares to core power engineer.Condi core engineer now is harder than power one imho

I've never been a fan of condition builds. I've always played power.

Full marauder nades rifle can be lethal ... but u have to play like a thief... with a much worst escape toolset

[whoknocks.4935]

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

Easy to play and easy to master and low skill floor.In 1vs1 warrior is good against people who doesn't know warrior. Otherwise it's pretty easy to counter.

In spvp its good because you can't kill a warrior in 2 seconds because of all the defensive ability it has, so can take any 1vs1 no problem, good at team fights with 100% proc on full counter and good at holding 2 people with a bit of kite.

But saying warrior is hard to master is like saying scourge is not a spam profession.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

You barely see a difference from a 2 months warrior player and a 2 years warrior player.

Thief cant randomly spam his attacks or just gets oneshot by another profession, warrior is so forgiving and carried by passives.

[Karras.2945]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

Nothing is harder than core power engineer.

[Ziooo.8932]

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

LOL Wvw ranking

To OP: i started learning more about pvp back im the hotjoin only days (8v8) playing d/p thief (core obv). I learned how to and when to jump each class, and how to finish each of them (blind, stealth, shadowstep, etc), which were free +5 and which were "avoid at all costs". At that time the game was simpler and more balanced, nowadays its got more layers of complexity to it.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

Nothing is harder than core power engineer.

This is not pve mate.Engi is tough for dps rotations in pve.

In pvp it's not even remotely viable, and definetely not because it's a hard profession to play.The OP wants improve spvp skills he should play at least a profession which is viable, so probably holosmith.

But to really improve on game mechanics you should play thief, i am not a thief main, but playing thief makes you good at watching the enemy bar and see the boons he has, makes you good at dodging important skills otherwise you are dead, watch out for stability and cc when the stability is off.

Core engineer will just make you frustated and you will learn a profession which won't give you any pvp results, if he wanna camp in bronze league maybe.

Definetely i do not recommend scourge because you take the class, click buttons, you see people dying and dont know how you did it. It lower your skills by a lot for a new player using it in my opinion.> @Ziooo.8932 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

LOL Wvw ranking

To OP: i started learning more about pvp back im the hotjoin only days (8v8) playing d/p thief (core obv). I learned how to and when to jump each class, and how to finish each of them (blind, stealth, shadowstep, etc), which were free +5 and which were "avoid at all costs". At that time the game was simpler and more balanced, nowadays its got more layers of complexity to it.

What you have to run of wvw ranking? I was saying that a plat or mithril rank guy has years of experience with warrior and in a 1vs1 they didnt rekt me so hard, but i managed to kill them using warrior for about 2 weeks.

That's all, just answered to the guy who said warrior is hard to master.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

Nothing is harder than core power engineer.

This is not pve mate.Engi is tough for dps rotations in pve.

In pvp it's not even remotely viable, and definetely not because it's a hard profession to play.The OP wants improve spvp skills he should play at least a profession which is viable, so probably holosmith.

But to really improve on game mechanics you should play thief, i am not a thief main, but playing thief makes you good at watching the enemy bar and see the boons he has, makes you good at dodging important skills otherwise you are dead, watch out for stability and cc when the stability is off.

Core engineer will just make you frustated and you will learn a profession which won't give you any pvp results, if he wanna camp in bronze league maybe.

Definetely i do not recommend scourge because you take the class, click buttons, you see people dying and dont know how you did it. It lower your skills by a lot for a new player using it in my opinion.> @Ziooo.8932 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

LOL Wvw ranking

To OP: i started learning more about pvp back im the hotjoin only days (8v8) playing d/p thief (core obv). I learned how to and when to jump each class, and how to finish each of them (blind, stealth, shadowstep, etc), which were free +5 and which were "avoid at all costs". At that time the game was simpler and more balanced, nowadays its got more layers of complexity to it.

What you have to run of wvw ranking? I was saying that a plat or mithril rank guy has years of experience with warrior and in a 1vs1 they didnt rekt me so hard, but i managed to kill them using warrior for about 2 weeks.

That's all, just answered to the guy who said warrior is hard to master.

I'm not saying all of your points are invalid,but WvW rank is a very poor marker for skill.

PvP is constant fightsWvW= that person could of got their rank from running in zergs.

[whoknocks.4935]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

Nothing is harder than core power engineer.

This is not pve mate.Engi is tough for dps rotations in pve.

In pvp it's not even remotely viable, and definetely not because it's a hard profession to play.The OP wants improve spvp skills he should play at least a profession which is viable, so probably holosmith.

But to really improve on game mechanics you should play thief, i am not a thief main, but playing thief makes you good at watching the enemy bar and see the boons he has, makes you good at dodging important skills otherwise you are dead, watch out for stability and cc when the stability is off.

Core engineer will just make you frustated and you will learn a profession which won't give you any pvp results, if he wanna camp in bronze league maybe.

Definetely i do not recommend scourge because you take the class, click buttons, you see people dying and dont know how you did it. It lower your skills by a lot for a new player using it in my opinion.> @Ziooo.8932 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

LOL Wvw ranking

To OP: i started learning more about pvp back im the hotjoin only days (8v8) playing d/p thief (core obv). I learned how to and when to jump each class, and how to finish each of them (blind, stealth, shadowstep, etc), which were free +5 and which were "avoid at all costs". At that time the game was simpler and more balanced, nowadays its got more layers of complexity to it.

What you have to run of wvw ranking? I was saying that a plat or mithril rank guy has years of experience with warrior and in a 1vs1 they didnt rekt me so hard, but i managed to kill them using warrior for about 2 weeks.

That's all, just answered to the guy who said warrior is hard to master.

I'm not saying all of your points are invalid,but WvW rank is a very poor marker for skill.

PvP is constant fightsWvW= that person could of got their rank from running in zergs.

Not if you whisper them and they tell you they main warrior for years ^-^

And im not talking of random encounters against people with a zerg build, but with a proper duel/roaming build.

For a beginner in spvp warrior can be good, easy forgiving and you can quite okay immediately.

If you take thief immediately probably all your toxic teammates will yell at you etc.

And you will get frustated as well because you will die a lot.

[Cifrer.6013]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:I think Warrior is actually a pretty good suggestion.With your shortened average play times, you don't want to have to spend hours and hours and hours learning just to play the class. Warrior is one of those classes that's easy to play but harder to master, despite what some may say. A good warrior will demolish his opponents while seeming to be unkillable, yet at the same time, someone can pick up the class and be fairly tanky or fairly dangerous to their opponents without needing to have the perfect skills for the class.The downside to Warrior is that it might make you develop some bad habits as you find yourself easing into the roles it naturally fills. The other side of this is that if you actually keep paying attention, you'll learn what's really important to keep track of.

This would let you focus more on learning rotations and how to counter what the enemy team is doing. Rotations are good to know, but at the end of the day, maintaining a degree of flexibility is a lot more important. Adaptability is something that often goes unnoticed right up until the unexpected happens.

Warrior also doesn't have to be a class to just sit at side nodes, it's got a lot of AoE and group potential too.

Warrior hard to master? Playing it in wvw after 2 weeks i was able to kill platinum rank or mithril rank warriors/spellbreakers without much problems.

Easy to play and easy to master and low skill floor.In 1vs1 warrior is good against people who doesn't know warrior. Otherwise it's pretty easy to counter.

In spvp its good because you can't kill a warrior in 2 seconds because of all the defensive ability it has, so can take any 1vs1 no problem, good at team fights with 100% proc on full counter and good at holding 2 people with a bit of kite.

But saying warrior is hard to master is like saying scourge is not a spam profession.

The hardest profession is definitely thief in a competitive scenario, you immediately see the difference between a first time thief player, a 1 year thief player or 4 years thief player.

You barely see a difference from a 2 months warrior player and a 2 years warrior player.

Thief cant randomly spam his attacks or just gets oneshot by another profession, warrior is so forgiving and carried by passives.

There is a world of difference between a good warrior and an ok warrior. You can get to be a decent warrior without much difficulty. Going beyond that to be one of those guys who can just wreck virtually anything in almost every situation is different though. That's what I mean easy to learn but hard to master.

Something like a thief or engineer for example are just hard to learn to begin with. It's like starting the learning curve at a completely different point. I'm not saying warrior is harder to master than other classes, simply that to push past the plateau and get to be a great warrior isn't easy. What is easy is to get to that plateau, hence easy to learn.

[Ivantreil.3092]

@"Temper.2190" said:Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have a core engineer bills you are running?

Here's a video of the Core Engi in action.

=

A link to the Build

[zoopop.5630]

Mesmer for sure

[Brother.1504]

Master thief and you have a great foundation for any other profession.