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Raiding and LFG


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My normal raid group is taking a short break from raiding, as several members have gotten really busy as of late. I've started turning to LFG to try to find raid groups, and it's a challenge to say the least. I don't pretend to be the best raider out there by any means, but I've been completing all of the fights on several of the wings on a regular basis, and know most of the mechanics fairly well.

In all of the pug groups I've found, they seem to be extremely elitist. As soon as you join, they demand kill proof, and want you to ping your "LI count". I typically get insta-kicked at this point, as most groups want 150-200 LI for any of the raids (even W1), and I'm only at 50. I've even seen a few that say things like "First mistake = instakick".

My question is: why? Honestly, most of the raids really aren't that hard, so that level of experience gating seems excessive and unnecessary. I don't see the same thing with T4 fractals at all, and I'd consider those to be harder than raids in many ways, especially in pug groups. There are definitely some where every member really has to be on top of their game, but for most it's not that bad. Not to mention, I've been a few of these groups, and even the groups who have done the raid thousands of times still wipe and make mistakes now and again.

This mentality makes me almost afraid to join raid posts in LFG, because I want to raid for fun. I don't want to constantly be on edge the entire time worrying about missing that one mechanic and getting yelled at and kicked!

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@"Sephollos.4829" said:My normal raid group is taking a short break from raiding, as several members have gotten really busy as of late. I've started turning to LFG to try to find raid groups, and it's a challenge to say the least. I don't pretend to be the best raider out there by any means, but I've been completing all of the fights on several of the wings on a regular basis, and know most of the mechanics fairly well.

In all of the pug groups I've found, they seem to be extremely elitist. As soon as you join, they demand kill proof, and want you to ping your "LI count". I typically get insta-kicked at this point, as most groups want 150-200 LI for any of the raids (even W1), and I'm only at 50. I've even seen a few that say things like "First mistake = instakick".

My question is: why? Honestly, most of the raids really aren't that hard, so that level of experience gating seems excessive and unnecessary. I don't see the same thing with T4 fractals at all, and I'd consider those to be harder than raids in many ways, especially in pug groups. There are definitely some where every member really has to be on top of their game, but for most it's not that bad. Not to mention, I've been a few of these groups, and even the groups who have done the raid thousands of times still wipe and make mistakes now and again.

This mentality makes me almost afraid to join raid posts in LFG, because I want to raid for fun. I don't want to constantly be on edge the entire time worrying about missing that one mechanic and getting yelled at and kicked!

I had same proplem. I started to command My own Squad and that solved it.

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@"Sephollos.4829" said:My normal raid group is taking a short break from raiding, as several members have gotten really busy as of late. I've started turning to LFG to try to find raid groups, and it's a challenge to say the least. I don't pretend to be the best raider out there by any means, but I've been completing all of the fights on several of the wings on a regular basis, and know most of the mechanics fairly well.

In all of the pug groups I've found, they seem to be extremely elitist. As soon as you join, they demand kill proof, and want you to ping your "LI count". I typically get insta-kicked at this point, as most groups want 150-200 LI for any of the raids (even W1), and I'm only at 50. I've even seen a few that say things like "First mistake = instakick".

My question is: why? Honestly, most of the raids really aren't that hard, so that level of experience gating seems excessive and unnecessary. I don't see the same thing with T4 fractals at all, and I'd consider those to be harder than raids in many ways, especially in pug groups. There are definitely some where every member really has to be on top of their game, but for most it's not that bad. Not to mention, I've been a few of these groups, and even the groups who have done the raid thousands of times still wipe and make mistakes now and again.

This mentality makes me almost afraid to join raid posts in LFG, because I want to raid for fun. I don't want to constantly be on edge the entire time worrying about missing that one mechanic and getting yelled at and kicked!

LFG pug groups can be the most hostile people in the game. My ignore list is full of them.

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@"Sephollos.4829" said:My normal raid group is taking a short break from raiding, as several members have gotten really busy as of late. I've started turning to LFG to try to find raid groups, and it's a challenge to say the least. I don't pretend to be the best raider out there by any means, but I've been completing all of the fights on several of the wings on a regular basis, and know most of the mechanics fairly well.

In all of the pug groups I've found, they seem to be extremely elitist. As soon as you join, they demand kill proof, and want you to ping your "LI count". I typically get insta-kicked at this point, as most groups want 150-200 LI for any of the raids (even W1), and I'm only at 50. I've even seen a few that say things like "First mistake = instakick".

My question is: why? Honestly, most of the raids really aren't that hard, so that level of experience gating seems excessive and unnecessary. I don't see the same thing with T4 fractals at all, and I'd consider those to be harder than raids in many ways, especially in pug groups. There are definitely some where every member really has to be on top of their game, but for most it's not that bad. Not to mention, I've been a few of these groups, and even the groups who have done the raid thousands of times still wipe and make mistakes now and again.

This mentality makes me almost afraid to join raid posts in LFG, because I want to raid for fun. I don't want to constantly be on edge the entire time worrying about missing that one mechanic and getting yelled at and kicked!

People with more experience (li, kp...) are less likely to fail. Considering that max LI is far above 1k, asking for 150 is nothing since you can get 17 per week now. It's just a bare minimum to expect a somewhat decent pug. It's not the case always, but as I said, LI is very easy to get nowadays, even if you just farm easy bosses (which is even easier due to PoF powercreep).

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This is because of Arenanet's PUG policy. It is dumb as skritt and there is no reason for it other than laziness.

Arenanet tracks, but does not put to any use, player LI (raid experience) in group creation. Arenanet's policy is fundamentally, "I don't care what you do or who you are stuck with. It's not my game. I just design it. I don't own it."

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@steki.1478 said:

People with more experience (li, kp...) are less likely to fail. Considering that max LI is far above 1k, asking for 150 is nothing since you can get 17 per week now. It's just a bare minimum to expect a somewhat decent pug. It's not the case always, but as I said, LI is very easy to get nowadays, even if you just farm easy bosses (which is even easier due to PoF powercreep).

That's assuming you've been playing since launch. I only just came back to the game a few months ago, so I don't have nearly as much of a head start as many players. Also, I generally only do two raids a week with my group based on how much time I have available to play (Spirit Vale and Bastion), so that's only 8LI per week, which would take 6 months to hit 200LI if I don't miss a raid. I pretty much know those two raids like the back of my hand, and those are the two I try to join pug groups for.

That kind of makes my point that you can have over 200 LI and a kill point on a boss like Dhuum, but you may have only killed it once or been carried, and still not really know the mechanics. Likewise, you can have low LI, and have a lot more experience than others on the particular bosses that you've focused on.

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@Sephollos.4829 said:

People with more experience (li, kp...) are less likely to fail. Considering that max LI is far above 1k, asking for 150 is nothing since you can get 17 per week now. It's just a bare minimum to expect a somewhat decent pug. It's not the case always, but as I said, LI is very easy to get nowadays, even if you just farm easy bosses (which is even easier due to PoF powercreep).

That's assuming you've been playing since launch. I only just came back to the game a few months ago, so I don't have nearly as much of a head start as many players. Also, I generally only do two raids a week with my group based on how much time I have available to play (Spirit Vale and Bastion), so that's only 8LI per week, which would take 6 months to hit 200LI if I don't miss a raid. I pretty much know those two raids like the back of my hand, and those are the two I try to join pug groups for.

That kind of makes my point that you can have over 200 LI and a kill point on a boss like Dhuum, but you may have only killed it once or been carried, and still not really know the mechanics. Likewise, you can have low LI, and have a lot more experience than others on the particular bosses that you've focused on.

That's why groups on a more mechanic dependant/newer bosses require kill proofs.

Nothing in this game is stopping you from posting lfg with no reqs. There's always people with low amount of LI.

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Unfortunately you have to tolerate that. Li and KP are the only indication of player skill when dealing with strangers, albeit a very flawed one.

A better solution for you would be to check the training raids guild and communities. They have tiers that are based on actual performance and not li. They really help you improve trying to get their tiers and then you can use their LFGs that are based on those tiers and completely ignore the li and KP annoyance from the in-game LFG.

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well you won't stay 8li per week for 6 months THAT IS INSANE :D after a month those 8 will become 11, and in your 3rd month you will do full w1-w4 and get your 13li per week, i am excluding w5 cause when i started that is how it went, i was complete newbie, did VG + Gorse for 2 weeks, then sabetha, then i did full w4 and sloth, mathias, kc and xera were my last ones, and in 3 months i had almost full leg armor 5/6 pieces and maybe 15 more li for last piece, that is only 3 months and that is all over lfg, so if after 6 months you are still on only w1 and w4 you need to put more effort, yes so many elitists, but ppl make lfg for what they like, just dont join their lfg go with more relaxed and chilled people

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You can't blame people for not wanting to take chances, for not wanting to waste their own time to struggle with pug squads.Legendary Insights or any other Kill Proofs are the few means we have to to predict the outcome (as limited and misleading it may be at times) of our raid runs.It may even vary greatly and heavily depend on the player in question but it is far more likely to see a 250+ LI player outperform anyone at 50+ than vice versa.Taking someone's word for it doesn't always work out either. I am not even saying people simply lie about it when asked. There are many cases with them running wrong gear or lacking knowledge of most mechanics without them even realizing it. This happens far more often in 'low LI' or 'no requirement' groups.

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We'll it rlly doesn't matter. I saw people with 1000li+ failing more often than people with only 100li.

Like don't prove that you are a good player. Nor does any kill proof.

Most of the times the less "experienced" players are even better than the very "experienced" players.Because they try even harder to be good.

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LFG that is looking for EXP runs expects you to be experienced because they are expecting a clear in just maybe a single run, because nobody wants to babysit random stranger in LFG PUG that you will most likely never meet again in the future. Not to mention that raid is very time consuming if the group keeps failing. That's why LI and KP are the only ways to know if someone is actually experience. There are also people that don't need KP because they are either practicing or something.

You can't blame anyone not wanting to waste time failing and earning nothing.

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