Opinions of someone who left in 2012

[artemis.6781]

Well at least we know what they say about opinions. Pay to win means you can only buy something for real life money that gives you an advantage that is not otherwise accessable in game. And every thing is accessible thru the game or gem store by either converting gold to gems or vice versa. So, no, GW2 is no where near pay to win.

[SDaemon.8601]

If ascended gear didn't rain from the sky with little effort involved legendaries might be worth more than the shiny factor and a goal to work towards. If people want to skip having something to do and go straight for the shiny I see no issue with that. They haven't beat me. Their shiny is no better than my ascended weapon stat wise and I still have something to work towards by doing the legendary crafting the long way.

[Neural.1824]

@Selminus.1490 said:

• World map completion on alts an impractical headache.

Please elaborate on what you mean by this.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Selminus.1490 said:

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@Selminus.1490 said:Do I really need to explain the pay to win component for PvE? You can straight up buy gold from the game store then go on the trader and buy legendaries and whatever else you want. Come on dude.

Except that's still not pay-to-win. It doesn't give that person an advantage over any other player because every player with a level 80 character can craft a legendary without needing to even look at gems or the gem store.

After investing how much time? Are you really going to make this argument? The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right? That's called pay to win. You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game. I'm not complaining about it, I buy gold, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Except in SPvP where you don’t use your PvE gear and in WvW where skill counts more than the few extra stats that ascended has over exotic. That leaves PvE, where no one cares if you can do a bit better with autoattack.

[Rain.7543]

@Selminus.1490 said:

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@Selminus.1490 said:Do I really need to explain the pay to win component for PvE? You can straight up buy gold from the game store then go on the trader and buy legendaries and whatever else you want. Come on dude.

Except that's still not pay-to-win. It doesn't give that person an advantage over any other player because every player with a level 80 character can craft a legendary without needing to even look at gems or the gem store.

After investing how much time? Are you really going to make this argument? The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right? That's called pay to win. You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game. I'm not complaining about it, I buy gold, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Sigh That's not pay to win. Please go read what something means, before go throwing it around. Call it Pay to progress faster or something, but that's not pay to win. Pay to win means that the game offers you something that gives you an advantage over others (usually a better stats) in the form of an item, which is available ONLY through purchase with REAL MONEY. There is absolutely NOTHING in Guild wars 2 that can be bought exlusively with only real money. The gem store offers items only, as a cosmetics, legendary armor/weapons are merely seen, as cosmetics as well offering a bit of convinience because of the stat swap, but otherwise they are on the same level, as ascended stat wise. And before you come next and argue that in this case the expansions are pay to win. No, they are not. They are just exactly what they are - expansions.

[Ryou.2398]

@Rain.7543 said:

@Selminus.1490 said:

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@Selminus.1490 said:Do I really need to explain the pay to win component for PvE? You can straight up buy gold from the game store then go on the trader and buy legendaries and whatever else you want. Come on dude.

Except that's still not pay-to-win. It doesn't give that person an advantage over any other player because every player with a level 80 character can craft a legendary without needing to even look at gems or the gem store.

After investing how much time? Are you really going to make this argument? The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right? That's called pay to win. You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game. I'm not complaining about it, I buy gold, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Sigh

That's not pay to win. Please go read what something means, before go throwing it around. Call it Pay to progress faster or something, but that's not pay to win. Pay to win means that the game offers you something that gives you an advantage over others (usually a better stats) in the form of an item, which is available ONLY through purchase with REAL MONEY. There is absolutely NOTHING in Guild wars 2 that can be bought exlusively with only real money. The gem store offers items only, as a cosmetics, legendary armor/weapons are merely seen, as cosmetics as well offering a bit of convinience because of the stat swap, but otherwise they are on the same level, as ascended stat wise. And before you come next and argue that in this case the expansions are pay to win. No, they are not. They are just exactly what they are - expansions.

Pay to fashion faster maybe? I mean really? Lol I just came back but last I checked this is not a gear based endgame mmo.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Expansions e specs are 1 example of p2w tell me any instance these dont are better than core i dont think its p2w but some might do

[Leablo.2651]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Expansions e specs are 1 example of p2w tell me any instance these dont are better than core i dont think its p2w but some might do

Deadeye

[Rasimir.6239]

@"Selminus.1490" said:The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right?Except it's not. The stats of a legendary weapon are identical with those of an ascended item of the same weapon type. Ascended weapons might seem like a big achievement for a new player, but once you've played a bit you'll realize that they aren't really all that difficult or grindy to get after all.

Plus the stat advantage of ascended (and the equally strong legendary) weapons over exotics (that are even accessible for pretty new players) is actually pretty negligible except for a very few areas of ultimate endgame content, too. I've got way too many characters I like to play to equip them all in ascended, and I can hold my own in all exotic equipment (except jewellery, which is often easier to get in ascended quality than exotic) in raids as well as wvw.

You don't "win" this game by putting bigger stats on your equipment. You win it by gaining experience and knowledge of your character and fight mechanisms. And even the little bit of difference that stats make isn't an advantage of legendary stuff, as those offer the exact same (amount and distribution of) stats that the more accessible ascended equipment does.

All you gain from buying a legendary with a credit card is a (not so rare) skin and the certainty that good drops you might get in the future will no longer excite you as you've already payed your way past their usefulness.

[Dawnpainterz.3914]

@Blocki.4931 said:There is no pay to win in the game. Sure, good gear is an investment but a full set of perfectly usable armour with berserker stats costs like 15 gold. Just the fact that you CAN bust out the credit card doesn't make it pay to win at all. You gain no advantage over others whatsoever besides that you've spent less time playing the game and farming or whatever. Rest is purely convenience.

I can see both sides of this. You can't outright buy over-powered pay-to-steam-roll items from the gem store but I got my Griffen in 1/3 the time it toke the rest of my guild just by dropping money on gems ---> gold.

[AliamRationem.5172]

What is it with the GW2 forums? Half the debates are over the definition of common terms! Do you guys really not understand what "Pay-to-Win" means? The gold exchange does not qualify at all.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Selminus.1490 said:

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@Selminus.1490 said:Do I really need to explain the pay to win component for PvE? You can straight up buy gold from the game store then go on the trader and buy legendaries and whatever else you want. Come on dude.

Except that's still not pay-to-win. It doesn't give that person an advantage over any other player because every player with a level 80 character can craft a legendary without needing to even look at gems or the gem store.

After investing how much time? Are you really going to make this argument? The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right? That's called pay to win. You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game. I'm not complaining about it, I buy gold, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Best item (legendary) has same stats as ascended. And making gold to craft first set of ascended took me one night. In pvp everyone have same stats and in pve you compete against AI. And i am sorry if you need legendary to beat them....

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Selminus.1490" said:After investing how much time? Are you really going to make this argument? The best items in the game can be bought with a credit card, right?

What the heck do you keep talking about? There are NO "best items" that can be bought in the Gem Store, only skins.

skins <> items

The "best items" are all available exclusively in-game, namely ascended/legendary gear. Please get informed before making such ridiculous claims. You have been away from the game for a very long time, yet you come here now and complain about things that just aren't true.

[Cerioth.7062]

Not to mention that you HAVE to acquire the legendaries in the game to sell them on TP in the first place.

[Ashantara.8731]

Not to mention this humbug:

@"Selminus.1490" said:You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game.

What in the name of the Five?! No weapon gives you additional CC. CC (Crowd Control) is achieved through skills, not "special item properties" (which do not exist, just to clarify this once and for all; legendary weapons have special visual effects, but no additional powers). Your whole point is made up by your imagination of something that is not in the game. There are no items that give you special powers, neither in-game nor in the Gem Store. None. Zero. Niente. Nada.

Look at the categories of items that exist, please - educate yourself before making false claims.

[MachineManXX.9746]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Expansions e specs are 1 example of p2w tell me any instance these dont are better than core i dont think its p2w but some might do

Lol, so buying the expansion you want to play is now considered pay to win? In that case, pretty much every mmo in existence is p2w. Actually, every game in existence.

I guess I've been looking at it wrong all these years. I am now very upset with the board game Monopoly. I had to actually buy the game before I could win while playing it. If only I knew then what I know now ....

[NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Not to mention this humbug:

@"Selminus.1490" said:

You beat the other people to the best gear with your CC

, thus putting you in a better position faster to play the rest of the game.

What in the name of the Five?! No weapon gives you additional CC. CC (Crowd Control) is achieved through

skills

, not "special item properties" (which do not exist, just to clarify this once and for all; legendary weapons have special

visual effects

, but no additional powers). Your whole point is made up by your imagination of something that is

not in the game

. There are no items that give you special powers, neither in-game nor in the Gem Store. None. Zero. Niente. Nada.

Look at the

categories of items

that exist, please - educate yourself before making false claims.

Pretty sure the OP is using "CC" as shorthand for "credit card" in this case.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935" said:Pretty sure the OP is using "CC" as shorthand for "credit card" in this case.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. ;)

[Rain.7543]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935" said:Pretty sure the OP is using "CC" as shorthand for "credit card" in this case.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. ;)

Actually even if he did mean Credit Card, OP's statement still doesnt make even the tiniest bit of sense.

@OP getting faster ahead of others in this game by using your Credit Card doesnt mean Pay to win, because you arent doing anything else, but just that - getting to the end gear faster. You dont get ANY advantages over people who havent used their Credit cards, because as it was already pointed out the difference between exotic and ascended gear is just a tiny bit more stats in favour of the latter and legendary gear have the exact same stats, as ascended. You get better cosmetics faster and prestige items, but nothing that will boost you ahead of others in terms of pure stats and power. In the end if you cant play your character properly, even some free to play players will be better then you in terms of gameplay in rare gear while you run around with your shiny legendaries.

Free to play isnt a general term that you can just apply to everything that is bought with money from the game. Again, please go read what exactly Pay to Win means and really try to understand it this time.

[JDub.1530]

The one thing to note with the gems to gold system is that gold didn't come out of thin air. Someone played the game to earn that gold and then exchanged it for your gems. The Legendary you bought with it didn't come from a Legendary vendor, but someone had to craft it. Gems to gold is a bartering system where you exchange a resource you have (money) with a resource someone else has (time).

If your buying gold with gems is "winning" then it means someone else is "losing" because you are gaining something they will no longer have. (So does that mean we have 'Pay to Win' and 'Play to Lose'? lol)

[Ashen.2907]

With as ugly as most legendaries are, IMO, and as the game is often called Fashion Wars, I have frequently wondered if those buying legendaries with real money are paying to lose. P2L for the win?

[Hashberry.4510]

Legendaries drive the economy for the rest of us. Its a great deal.