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We are getting Balthazar+GS as our next Legend, right ANET?


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@Lily.1935 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:My money is on: Togo - Ritualist - sceptre.

You'll be sorely disappointed. There is a candidate for ritualist in the story now. And she was set up for it in season 2 I believe. Her name is Marjory. Revenant will never get ritualist. Necromancer will most likely though.

Talon Silverwing or some other notable tengu using great sword would be most likely for a canthan expansion. If not a norn next.

The idea that Maj would bind her sister's spirit the way a ritualist does (forcibly bending them to their will) is pretty laughable. I guess if she recovered her body from the mordrem vines, she could possibly use her ashes in an urn. But still the lore behind revenant is far closer to ritualist than necromancer is.

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@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:My money is on: Togo - Ritualist - sceptre.

You'll be sorely disappointed. There is a candidate for ritualist in the story now. And she was set up for it in season 2 I believe. Her name is Marjory. Revenant will never get ritualist. Necromancer will most likely though.

Talon Silverwing or some other notable tengu using great sword would be most likely for a canthan expansion. If not a norn next.

The idea that Maj would bind her sister's spirit the way a ritualist does (forcibly bending them to their will) is pretty laughable. I guess if she recovered her body from the mordrem vines, she could possibly use her ashes in an urn. But still the lore behind revenant is far closer to ritualist than necromancer is.

No, no it isn't. Revenant has little lore that works with ritualist. In fact the magic that revenant uses is fairly common among professions now. Thief, Guardian, Necromancer all use mist magic. What shadow stepping is is creating a portal through the mists. Looking it up. It is the same thing that revenant does. The Ritualist uses death magic. They are death mages. This is cannon. Necromancers call spirits and can call into the realm of torment and underworld. But not hall of heroes to my knowledge. Which the ritualist couldn't call into the hall of heroes either.

I'd drop you a couple dozen links about necromancer design and lore, but I'm on my phone and its difficult just to respond. Revenant has one spell. They are hardly a magic user. They have one spell and all other skills they low come from the channeled legend. They don't have the discipline in magic to do what ritualists do. In fact, summoning spirits is a binding ritual in the lore. It isn't even magic. But we know for a fact that the method Revenant uses to channel legends is a spell. Very different to how the ritualist preforms. But the ritualist practices are still kept alive through the necromancer. The necromancer still does preform rituals. And in the lore the necromancer has become more like ritualist than they were in gw1. You can read all about it on the wiki, check it out on the website, read about it in game and even participate in missions and events that show necromancers preforming rituals to calm and summon spirits.

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@"Lily.1935" said:No, no it isn't. Revenant has little lore that works with ritualist.In fact the magic that revenant uses is fairly common among professions now. Thief, Guardian, Necromancer all use mist magic.What shadow stepping is is creating a portal through the mists. Looking it up. It is the same thing that revenant does.

If this magic is so common then why did it cause such intrigue among those that witnessed Rytlock use it for the first time? Why did Rox ask "what's that new magic you're using"?Don't know what you mean by "mist magic", sounds like a made up term to prove a point but anyway. Magic falls into 4 classes and "each magic using profession also falls into one of these"(so all professions in GW2), they are: Preservation, Aggression, Destruction, and Denial. Specialisations (not Elite) hint at parts of a profession falling into one of these for example shadow arts (the source of the shadow stepping) from thieves is in Denial. It is not the same as creating a portal through the mists. There isn't a single thief skill or trait that says anything about the mists.

The Ritualist uses death magic. They are death mages.Ritualists don't use death magic, they use channeling magic and restoration magic, their other trait lines are channeling and communing (which are terms that appear a lot in texts to do with revenants). They are not death mages.

You sound like you have no idea what ritualists are so here is their description.

"Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. They hood their eyes to better commune with spirits that grant great power and protection to Ritualists and their comrades. The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which enhance the deadliness of an ally's weapon and wreak havoc on an enemy's health. The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes. Where the Ranger lives as one with the spirit world, the Ritualist can and will be its master."

This is cannon.

So no it's not.

Necromancers call spirits and can call into the realm of torment and underworld. But not hall of heroes to my knowledge. Which the ritualist couldn't call >into the hall of heroes either.

What's your point? It doesn't say anywhere that revenants can either so by your logic that should make them more similar right?Oh and btw Necromancer's don't use spirits in combat!

I'd drop you a couple dozen links about necromancer design and lore,

Please drop these links because so far almost everything you've said sounds made up.

Revenant has one spell. They are hardly a magic user.

What does this even mean? Are you saying revenants have only one skill? Ritualists were hardly magic users either, the ritualist profession existed before the gods gave magic to the races and it was only amalgamated afterwards.

They have one spell and all other skills they low come from the channeled legend. They don't have the discipline in magic to do what ritualists do. In fact, summoning >spirits is a binding ritual in the lore. It isn't even magic. But we knowfor a fact that the method Revenant uses to channel legends is a spell. Very different to how the ritualist preforms.

They have weapon skills not associated with any legend, only their utility skills come from a summoned legend... Since ritualists were able to do what they do before magic was given to the races, it is safe to assume that they had a way of reaching into the mists to get to those ancestors, who else has a reaching into the mist shtick? Oh yeah. REVENANTS. Starting to wonder if you know what revenants are either

"Revenants have learned to commune with the Mists, a magical protoreality that makes up the fabric of space and time within the Guild Wars 2 universe. The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there. A revenant calls upon these legendary historical figures, bringing them back into action to enhance the revenant's own abilities and power.

Necromancers use spells and magic to summon their minions and just about everything else too. What is the point you're trying to make here exactly?

And in the lore the necromancer has become more like ritualist than they were in gw1. You can read all about it >on the wiki, check it out on the website, read about it in >game and even participate in missions and events that show necromancers preforming rituals to calm and >summon spirits.

This was only done because at the launch of Guild Wars 2, the ritualist was not made to be one of the original professions. Pieces of it were taken and put into some of the 8 professions we got, yes Necromancer got some of that but so did the Guardian (spirit weapons) and Engineer (Spirits --> Turrets) but now we have the revenant.

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@NaiveBayes.2587 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:No, no it isn't. Revenant has little lore that works with ritualist.In fact the magic that revenant uses is fairly common among professions now. Thief, Guardian, Necromancer all use mist magic.What shadow stepping is is creating a portal through the mists. Looking it up. It is the same thing that revenant does.

If this magic is so common then why did it cause such intrigue among those that witnessed Rytlock use it for the first time? Why did Rox ask "what's that new magic you're using"?Don't know what you mean by "mist magic", sounds like a made up term to prove a point but anyway. Magic falls into 4 classes and "each magic using profession also falls into one of these"(so all professions in GW2), they are: Preservation, Aggression, Destruction, and Denial. Specialisations (not Elite) hint at parts of a profession falling into one of these for example shadow arts (the source of the shadow stepping) from thieves is in Denial. It is not the same as creating a portal through the mists. There isn't a single thief skill or trait that says anything about the mists.

The Ritualist uses death magic. They are death mages.Ritualists don't use death magic, they use channeling magic and restoration magic, their other trait lines are channeling and communing (which are terms that appear a lot in texts to do with revenants). They are not death mages.

You sound like you have no idea what ritualists are so here is their description.

"Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. They hood their eyes to better
commune
with
spirits that grant great power and protection to Ritualists and their comrades.
The
energy
they channel drives Ritualist skills which enhance the deadliness of an ally's weapon and wreak havoc on an enemy's health. The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the
living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would,
but through the ritual use of urns and ashes. Where the Ranger lives as one with the spirit world, the Ritualist can and will be its master."

This is cannon.

So no it's not.

Necromancers call spirits and can call into the realm of torment and underworld. But not hall of heroes to my knowledge. Which the ritualist couldn't call >into the hall of heroes either.

What's your point? It doesn't say anywhere that revenants can either so by your logic that should make them more similar right?Oh and btw Necromancer's don't use spirits in combat!

I'd drop you a couple dozen links about necromancer design and lore,

Please drop these links because so far almost everything you've said sounds made up.

Revenant has one spell. They are hardly a magic user.

What does this even mean? Are you saying revenants have only one skill? Ritualists were hardly magic users either, the ritualist profession existed before the gods gave magic to the races and it was only amalgamated afterwards.

They have one spell and all other skills they low come from the channeled legend. They don't have the discipline in magic to do what ritualists do. In fact, summoning >spirits is a binding ritual in the lore. It isn't even magic. But we knowfor a fact that the method Revenant uses to channel legends is a spell. Very different to how the ritualist preforms.

They have weapon skills not associated with any legend, only their utility skills come from a summoned legend... Since ritualists were able to do what they do before magic was given to the races, it is safe to assume that they had a way of reaching into the mists to get to those ancestors, who else has a reaching into the mist shtick? Oh yeah. REVENANTS. Starting to wonder if you know what revenants are either

"Revenants have learned to commune with the Mists, a magical protoreality that makes up the fabric of space and time within the Guild Wars 2 universe. The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there. A revenant calls upon these legendary historical figures, bringing them back into action to enhance the revenant's own abilities and power.

Necromancers use spells and magic to summon their minions and just about everything else too. What is the point you're trying to make here exactly?

And in the lore the necromancer has become more like ritualist than they were in gw1. You can read all about it >on the wiki, check it out on the website, read about it in >game and even participate in missions and events that show necromancers preforming rituals to calm and >summon spirits.

This was only done because at the launch of Guild Wars 2, the ritualist was not made to be one of the original professions. Pieces of it were taken and put into some of the 8 professions we got, yes Necromancer got some of that but so did the Guardian (
spirit
weapons) and Engineer (Spirits --> Turrets) but now we have the revenant.

Death magic as in what all other fiction recognize it as. Not death magic as in gw2 specializations. Death magic is used to commune with the dead, summon spirits, reanimate corpses, scry, stave off death or afflict death curses. Excuse the confusion.

And yes. Mist magic is common. Just because the revenant figured out a new way to use it doesn't mean it's new. Hell, necromancer can call directly from the underworld and the realm of torment. I've had this conversation a dozen times already. You want some examples, read my posts in "27 elite specializations" oh the profession forums. I don't want to type it again. Typing on my phone is difficult. But, no, revenant will never get ritualist.

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@"Lily.1935" said:

Death magic as in what all other fiction recognize it as. Not death magic as in gw2 specializations. Death magic is used to commune with the dead, summon spirits, reanimate corpses, scry, stave off death or afflict death curses. Excuse the confusion.

And yes. Mist magic is common. Just because the revenant figured out a new way to use it doesn't mean it's new. Hell, necromancer can call directly from the underworld and the realm of torment. I've had this conversation a dozen times already. You want some examples, read my posts in "27 elite specializations" oh the profession forums. I don't want to type it again. Typing on my phone is difficult. But, no, revenant will never get ritualist.

In gw1 they made a significant distinction between what ritualists do and necromancy. Necromancer controls death, dead bodies, plague, disease, very physical things and its dark magic I guess if you were going to categorize it. Ritualist magic (technically it isn't magic, per se. not the type of magic that the gods use or that the dragons use) it's more about being in tune with a higher dimension or something of the sort. Ritualist skills are neutral, not dark or light. They don't raise the dead in a physical sense, even the spirits they summon aren't really physical, they are just spirits. What the revenant does with channeling legends is very similar and spot on with what ritualists did, except that the spirits didnt take over their body in gw1 with ritualists. The actually dead person isn't returned, but a mirrored copy of their spirit and impression within the mists is manifested. To explain why this is different to a necromancer is that a necromancer would not summon a mirrored impression or whatever of some dead guy, almost like a dopplganger. Instead, a necromancer would raise the real deal and actually bring someone back from the dead to do their bidding, not an afterimage or their spirit. Ritualist=yogi, who channels a higher frequency for clarity, enhancement, and performing weird jesus/muhammad type miracles. Necromancer=occultist who uses magic to do otherwordly things. Death magic and meditiation are not the same thing. There is a thin conceptual line between the two classes, but the two types of practices are different as ritualism is natural to the individuals of tyria while necromancy was granted by outside beings (gods/dragons).

Ritualist are the equivalent of walking the eightfold path, while necromancers are the equivalent of those who practice the necronomicon. Don't compare the two.

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:

Death magic as in what all other fiction recognize it as. Not death magic as in gw2 specializations. Death magic is used to commune with the dead, summon spirits, reanimate corpses, scry, stave off death or afflict death curses. Excuse the confusion.

And yes. Mist magic is common. Just because the revenant figured out a new way to use it doesn't mean it's new. Hell, necromancer can call directly from the underworld and the realm of torment. I've had this conversation a dozen times already. You want some examples, read my posts in "27 elite specializations" oh the profession forums. I don't want to type it again. Typing on my phone is difficult. But, no, revenant will never get ritualist.

In gw1 they made a significant distinction between what ritualists do and necromancy. Necromancer controls death, dead bodies, plague, disease, very physical things and its dark magic I guess if you were going to categorize it. Ritualist magic (technically it isn't magic, per se. not the type of magic that the gods use or that the dragons use) it's more about being in tune with a higher dimension or something of the sort. Ritualist skills are neutral, not dark or light. They don't raise the dead in a physical sense, even the spirits they summon aren't really physical, they are just spirits. What the revenant does with channeling legends is very similar and spot on with what ritualists did, except that the spirits didnt take over their body in gw1 with ritualists. The actually dead person isn't returned, but a mirrored copy of their spirit and impression within the mists is manifested. To explain why this is different to a necromancer is that a necromancer would not summon a mirrored impression or whatever of some dead guy, almost like a dopplganger. Instead, a necromancer would raise the real deal and actually bring someone back from the dead to do their bidding, not an afterimage or their spirit. Ritualist=yogi, who channels a higher frequency for clarity, enhancement, and performing weird jesus/muhammad type miracles. Necromancer=occultist who uses magic to do otherwordly things. Death magic and meditiation are not the same thing. There is a thin conceptual line between the two classes, but the two types of practices are different as ritualism is natural to the individuals of tyria while necromancy was granted by outside beings (gods/dragons).

Ritualist are the equivalent of walking the eightfold path, while necromancers are the equivalent of those who practice the necronomicon. Don't compare the two.

I'm not splitting hairs on this. The necromancer didn't only deal in physical bodies but the spiritual as well. Soul reaping is exactly what it sounds. And even if that was the case in gw1(it wasn't) it certainly isn't the case in GW2. Take a read through of the old Guild Wars 2 website and read what it says on necromancer. Death shroud is a spirit form. Necromancers preform rituals. Trahearne says he calls his minions from the underworld. Marjory communes with the spirit of a child and also binds her sister to their family sword. The scourge guides souls in the desert to the after life. Their shades? Those are desert spirits. A necromancer in the story is the one to preform a ritual to summon one of grenth's minions. The minion skills have changed too from GW1 to GW2. Necromancers no longer need a corpse for their minions but can and do directly call them from the underworld. You can see this in the names. GW1 they were called Animate spells. In GW2 they are summons. The suggestion with the lore is that necromancers connection with the after life has gotten far stronger in the 250 years between games. Heck, Ghastly Breach is breaching the realm of torment. You want their to be a distinction. But their never was one. Like how the ritualist used dance as their medium, the necromancer used corpses. But now that magic is more powerful necromancers don't need their old medium and can just use magic as a conduit.

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@Lily.1935 said:

I'm not splitting hairs on this. The necromancer didn't only deal in physical bodies but the spiritual as well. Soul reaping is exactly what it sounds. And even if that was the case in gw1(it wasn't) it certainly isn't the case in GW2. Take a read through of the old Guild Wars 2 website and read what it says on necromancer. Death shroud is a spirit form. Necromancers preform rituals. Trahearne says he calls his minions from the underworld. Marjory communes with the spirit of a child and also binds her sister to their family sword. The scourge guides souls in the desert to the after life. Their shades? Those are desert spirits. A necromancer in the story is the one to preform a ritual to summon one of grenth's minions. The minion skills have changed too from GW1 to GW2. Necromancers no longer need a corpse for their minions but can and do directly call them from the underworld. You can see this in the names. GW1 they were called Animate spells. In GW2 they are summons. The suggestion with the lore is that necromancers connection with the after life has gotten far stronger in the 250 years between games. Heck, Ghastly Breach is breaching the realm of torment. You want their to be a distinction. But their never was one. Like how the ritualist used dance as their medium, the necromancer used corpses. But now that magic is more powerful necromancers don't need their old medium and can just use magic as a conduit.

Ok, I get what you're saying but in the assumption that they use the same type or facet of magic, they still use it in very different ways. Necromancers are masters of decay and attrition. Ritualists are masters of restoration and support. You could argue that this would make a good elite spec for necro, but I still believe that revenant would be more fitting due to the fact that they already channel spirits as their class mechanic and purpose. And with the whole medium of summoning, revenants no longer need ashes or dancing to channel spirits. But a more fitting spiritual archetype I feel still needs to be filled out.

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@Cuddy.6247 said:I'm hoping for Jora, personally. We can get a greatsword and can reuse several assets of Balthazar's animations, but we'll channel Jora and it'll have a more power/ice theme than power/fire.

I don't want to see the animations go to waste on one main antagonist that we'll never see again. But I also don't want them to throw it all out the window just to give us a Balthazar elite spec. So I think a really solid compromise would be Jora.

Asgeir Dragonrender would make a fantastic Legend too with GS.

Personally i want razah though.Not as a Legend but as a mechanic and as new skills we get Glyphs that do not cost energy to cast and that can replace a legend skill.The class mechanic would be an F2 that transforms you into a legendary avatar of the legend you are using and you get 5 new skills per legend. All are combat oriented like weapons and count as legendary avatar skills (so this is basically the new legend but rather function like necro shroud instead of utilities).Glyphs have different effects depending on legend and have different CD depending on Legend.Swapping legend inside Avatar Form transforms you into the next Legends avatar. Entering the stance accounts as a legend swap and resets energy.

THAT is a rev E-Spec i would play.

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

I'm not splitting hairs on this. The necromancer didn't only deal in physical bodies but the spiritual as well. Soul reaping is exactly what it sounds. And even if that was the case in gw1(it wasn't) it certainly isn't the case in GW2. Take a read through of the old Guild Wars 2 website and read what it says on necromancer. Death shroud is a spirit form. Necromancers preform rituals. Trahearne says he calls his minions from the underworld. Marjory communes with the spirit of a child and also binds her sister to their family sword. The scourge guides souls in the desert to the after life. Their shades? Those are desert spirits. A necromancer in the story is the one to preform a ritual to summon one of grenth's minions. The minion skills have changed too from GW1 to GW2. Necromancers no longer need a corpse for their minions but can and do directly call them from the underworld. You can see this in the names. GW1 they were called Animate spells. In GW2 they are summons. The suggestion with the lore is that necromancers connection with the after life has gotten far stronger in the 250 years between games. Heck, Ghastly Breach is breaching the realm of torment. You want their to be a distinction. But their never was one. Like how the ritualist used dance as their medium, the necromancer used corpses. But now that magic is more powerful necromancers don't need their old medium and can just use magic as a conduit.

Ok, I get what you're saying but in the assumption that they use the same type or facet of magic, they still use it in very different ways. Necromancers are masters of decay and attrition. Ritualists are masters of restoration and support. You could argue that this would make a good elite spec for necro, but I still believe that revenant would be more fitting due to the fact that they already channel spirits as their class mechanic and purpose. And with the whole medium of summoning, revenants no longer need ashes or dancing to channel spirits. But a more fitting spiritual archetype I feel still needs to be filled out.

Even that is contentious. The ritualists restoration magic was a bit more sinister than you might think. Their magic did require some form of sacrifice much like the necromancer's. And needed some clause to be filled otherwise it could cause themselves harm or wasn't as effective. In terms of how they healed it didn't come from the same place as a monk for example. Which made them worse healers, but that's beside the point. The point is their healing functioned mechanically in a strangely similar way to necromancer skills only rather than taking the burden onto themselves like necromancers do, they shifted that burden onto their spirits if they could. Also, out of the few hexes and damaging spells they did have the ritualist was again similar. Not exactly the same but they would consume spirits like necromancers consumed corpses or uses spirits like bombs like necromancers used minions. Their hexes like painful bond was very similar to two necromancer hexes, barbs and Mark of pain. Although there was the difference of spiritual and physical they were effectively doing very similar things using different dead mediums.

The revenant is a martial profession. It's in its design to be in the middle of combat. Which is a stark contrast to what the goal of the ritualist is. The way they play is more like what the dervish would be like in GW2. Dervish also channels something. They channel the power of the gods to change how their skills function which was the closest you could get for that in gw1. We've even fought a dervish in fractals. Her skills almost completely change based on the avatar she is in. Much like the relevant. Revenant isn't a 1 for 1 of the dervish of course. But it does have some nice fits for it. I'm not going to say they should channel a dervish. Although it would be a good get around. I am going to say that they could mimic their play style with the avatar forms channeling something like a norn that allows you to use the totems of the spirits of the wild.

The biggest problem with revenant is that it's design is so dependent on the legend it channels that their isn't room for anything super diverse like ritualist. And their isn't a role that the ritualist provides aside from field denial that the revenant could really use. Healer? Well revenant already has a healer spec. Spirit spammer? Well they have renegade. Protector? They've got Jalice and herald. They don't play them same but it's the same roles. And they have no way of benefiting from the ritualist's summoner tech since revenant can't summon creatures without a different elite specialization. But that's fine. They aren't a summoner class. They are a martial class. They aren't like necromancer, ranger or engineer and I wouldn't want them to be.

Revenant is in my top 4 professions. Either 2 or 3 depending on the week and I like them for their skill swapping. I just wish they had more skills to choose from. So limited. I'd also like to see more representation of the other races before we double up on one race. So a norn and asura legend would be nice. Maybe a sylvari. Get some Oola action going or Snaff.

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I personally would like a new villainous/anti-hero type of legend for our next elite spec. My vote is going towards Svanir with dual wielding foci as our weapons. We could use the foci in melee range as a type of claw weapon.

I'm also not against getting a GS for our next elite spec weapon, but I would prefer it to be used in an unorthodox manner similar to the hammer. I would be nice if the made it similar to the necro' s axe but with more cleave.

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@Coldtart.4785 said:

@supa suop.8026 said:I'm also not against getting a GS for our next elite spec weapon, but I would prefer it to be used in an unorthodox manner similar to the hammer.

Balthazar used his GS in a pretty unorthodox way.

Well..... in a game where hammers are range weapons and shields arent shields, GS skill design could be used has a hammer for revenant xDMaybe someday we will see a melee bow class ROFL.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:Mesmers stole the unortodox spell caster use of greatsword, and we already throw hammers. So no, i dont foresee greatswords at all. Mainhand axe seems more likely to me, or dual daggers.

Well a floating GS that has a ranged auto attack and is CC and condi based is not on the mesmers skill list so sure i want a GS for rev.

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