Is Abaddon the true source of Revenant's power?

[crepuscular.9047]

With anet bringing back Revenant's beta weapons, it rekindled a question i had buried in the back of mind.Where did Rytlock/Revenant's Mistward armor came from in the Mist?

Also, how did Rytlock mastered Revenant abilities in such a short space of time, considering he must have spent quite some time wandering around looking for Sohothin. (he was already in Mistward armor when he found Sohothin)The only other known mortal races we know of in lore that were able to freely traverse between Tyria and the Mist were the Mursaats (secret knowledge) and Margonite (Abaddon's power).

Here's my theory...What if the source of Revenant power actually came from the Mist weapons and the Mistward armor, which was forged from what was left of Abaddon after he died in Nightfall? (as the default colour scheme matches the colour palettes of Abaddon.)Glint did not teach Rytlock Revenant's power, but rather how to draw out and control the remanent of Abaddon's power he had secretly infused into his armor (he is the god of secrets after all)Which could make sense given the amount of time Rytlock spent in the Mist. (This isn't Chinese Wuxia story where one can freely transfer power and knowledge)

[Michram.6853]

Thats why I'm pissed off that Anet writers are keeping it a secret till now. He didn't reveal any important thing- only what we knew since HoT that he can invoke Glint- if he can invoke Glint he met them- its like 2+2=4, so it wasn't the secret you can keep for like 4 years (1327-1331 AE).

In PoF trailer we could hear a line that wasn't in the expansion at all: "I went to the Mists after my sword, but I found something else", I can't reeally believe this was meant to be misleading, you know if he would say "somebody", then it would spoil the story. But after playing PoF we can tell that there must be "something else".

Also he didn't know when he was in the Mists that he was about to free Balthazar, so: he went to the Mists, because the sword got lost, and at the same time he found something else.

I probably shouldnt mention the lines from the trailers, but there must be a continuation of his story.

Maybe Rytlock isn't Rytlock? I can see Caithe hiding the secrets from us, but Rytlock???

Also your theory is pretty interesting, I can see it may be true. :o

[Ardid.7203]

I honestly doubt there is such level of conspiracy behind anything Anet writes. I dare to ask: Has ever, in GW2 story, been such a long kept secret turned into more than a hastily and clumsily done pseudo reveal? Have the forced suspense ever given more than mere gimmicks?IMO they haven't properly explained the source of Rytlock powers because if they try to do it, they will need to explain the existence of all Revenants too(big an messy problem that is easier to hide under the rug), and because they also don't know for sure what happened in the mists.

"I went to the Mists after my sword, but I found something else", IMO this points only of the Balthy debacle, nothing more. It sound more mysterious than it actually is, and may seem like it prepares the road to reveal something important about the Revenant nature, but that is only because it is promo material. I the end it doesn't have any other meaning, and don't promise anything. Its literal: he went to the mists after the sword, and found something, a chained god. Chained god is now dead, end of story.

I would be INCREDIBLY GLAD to be proven wrong by Anet actually giving some solid lore and story to all the Rytlock/Mists/Renevant thing, but I'm fairly sure this won't happen soon, and when it finally reveals, it will be an enormous deux-ex-machina styled disappointment.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@ OPSince Anet very rarely implement armor lore, is hard to bet that there is something more than we know. I noticed the similarity in color design, although the colors of the abaddon weapons have something more between purple and red, while the mistward armor is simple red.

The only other known mortal races we know of in lore that were able to freely traverse between Tyria and the Mist were the Mursaats (secret knowledge) and Margonite (Abaddon's power).

Rytlock didnt free travel between Tyria and Mists. The first portal to him come in, come through a ritual; and the exit portal was opened by balthazar.

@Ardid.7203I completely agree with you.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Balthazar wasn't the only one I ran into during my time in the Mists. I also met Glint. She taught me the ways of the revenant. I thought she meant for me to finish the job Destiny's Edge started. But here we are, trying to save Kralkatorrik.

Rytlock mentions in Crystalline Memories that he met Glint who taught him the powers of a revenant. So it's unlikely to be tied to Abaddon. Besides, the Margonites didn't freely travel to and fro the Mists - they utilized the Shadow Nexus to create those portals.

As for the time spent, remember that time doesn't flow the same in the Mists, so he could have been in there for years, and even if it did, he was still missing for months.

@Arden.7480 said:Thats why I'm pissed off that Anet writers are keeping it a secret till now. He didn't reveal any important thing- only what we knew since HoT that he can invoke Glint- if he can invoke Glint he met them- its like 2+2=4, so it wasn't the secret you can keep for like 4 years (1327-1331 AE).

Invoking Glint doesn't mean he met her, though it turned out this is the case, that's not really a 2+2=4 thing. I mean, by your argument, my PC met Ventari, Shiro, Jalis, Mallyx, Glint, and Kalla, and that renegade NPC in Elon Riverlands met Kalla.

@Arden.7480 said:Maybe Rytlock isn't Rytlock? I can see Caithe hiding the secrets from us, but Rytlock???Rytlock is the biggest secret keeper in the game. He always has been, ever since avoiding the question "how did you get Sohothin?" or "why do you hate your warband/why do they hate you?"

[derd.6413]

a theory brought to you by stretch armstrong

[Michram.6853]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Balthazar wasn't the only one I ran into during my time in the Mists.

I also met Glint. She taught me the ways of the revenant.

I thought she meant for me to finish the job Destiny's Edge started. But here we are, trying to save Kralkatorrik.

Rytlock mentions in Crystalline Memories that he met Glint who taught him the powers of a revenant. So it's unlikely to be tied to Abaddon. Besides, the Margonites didn't freely travel to and fro the Mists - they utilized the Shadow Nexus to create those portals.

As for the time spent, remember that time doesn't flow the same in the Mists, so he could have been in there for years, and even if it did, he was still missing for months.

@Arden.7480 said:Thats why I'm pissed off that Anet writers are keeping it a secret till now. He didn't reveal any important thing- only what we knew since HoT that he can invoke Glint- if he can invoke Glint he met them- its like 2+2=4, so it wasn't the secret you can keep for like 4 years (1327-1331 AE).

Invoking Glint doesn't mean he met her, though it turned out this is the case, that's not really a 2+2=4 thing. I mean, by your argument, my PC met Ventari, Shiro, Jalis, Mallyx, Glint, and Kalla, and that renegade NPC in Elon Riverlands met Kalla.

@Arden.7480 said:Maybe Rytlock isn't Rytlock? I can see Caithe hiding the secrets from us, but Rytlock???Rytlock is the biggest secret keeper in the game. He always has been, ever since avoiding the question "how did you get Sohothin?" or "why do you hate your warband/why do they hate you?"

So Rytlock is just as every other character in this game, except Caithe- because Caithe is mysterious, and doesn't even mention that's she is hiding a thing, I mean we know Rytlock hides something, while with Caithe we didn't have any signs of that she would be hiding that she killed Wynne, she kept "we come from the Dragon" thing, and noone would ever know, we'd not if not that she stole the Egg.

Rytlock and every other character's secrets work like: she/he is up to something, but we don't know the details, while with Caithe we were kind of shocked that she stole the Egg, she didn't trust us, we didn't know that she was up to something, and she didn't even make a one small sign about the details of her deeds.

So Rytlock behaves just like for example Marjory in Season 3 episode 2- Rising Flames, when she wanted to watch over "Lazarus", we could see she was up to something, but she didn't give any details, same Kas, Canach etc, except as I said Caithe- she is pretty nice in hiding her identity, even Kito is just a small stink bug in comparison to Caithe.

He is just good in keeping the details away from the people, but it doesn't make him the same as Caithe.

" I mean, by your argument, my PC met Ventari, Shiro, Jalis, Mallyx, Glint, and Kalla, and that renegade NPC in Elon Riverlands met Kalla."

Rytlock said: I don't have time for this. Look, history is full of legendary figures. Heroes and villains, idols and monsters. While I was in the Mists, I figured out how to harness their power and make it work for me. Okay?

So if he want he can connect to the power of the Renegade, but he said that the Revenants choose who they want to invoke. Same PC. So there may be even a human that will be trying to connect with an echo of Gwen or norn that will be trying to connect with an echo of Eir.

He might have also met just an echo of Glint that left him a message, gave him clues to become a good revenant, that may explain why he didn't tell what she told him, because she didn't, she wasn't there in person, just an echo. It doesn't mean we can't call it a meeting, but I guess Revenants connect with the Echoes, not the characters themselves. Am I wrong?

[crepuscular.9047]

@derd.6413 said:a theory brought to you by stretch armstrong

Nothing wrong with theory crafting when anet doesnt like to explain things properly :p

 

 

@ugrakarma.9416 said:Rytlock didnt free travel between Tyria and Mists. The first portal to him come in, come through a ritual; and the exit portal was opened by balthazar.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Besides, the Margonites didn't freely travel to and fro the Mists - they utilized the Shadow Nexus to create those portals.

Yes, because he was a warrior at the time when he entered the portal...... and the exit portal was open by Balthazaar as we seen in PoF is true, but that does not mean he cannot create a rift into Tyria on his own.

like I said above, Margonite relied upon Abaddon's power and knowledge to create the Chaos Rift, here's the outpost description from in-game.

The Shadow Nexus is but a single shard of reality left behind by the Five Gods when they imprisoned Abaddon. Once used to control access to his realm, Abaddon has turned their clever scheme upon them and now uses the Nexus to send his foul spawn of Torment to invade other realities.

Revenant's skills description indicate they can move their body in and out of the Mist.Hammer 3, Phase Smash - Leap through the Mists to the target area. When you land, damage and chill foes in an area,Assasin Stance 2, Riposting Shadows - Dodge backward through the Mists. Remove movement-impairing conditions, and gain fury.Assasin Stance 3, Phase Traversal - Step through the Mists to your target. Your next few attacks can't be blocked and deal increased damage.

 

 

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

Balthazar wasn't the only one I ran into during my time in the Mists.

I also met Glint. She taught me the ways of the revenant.

Rytlock mentions in Crystalline Memories that he met Glint who taught him the powers of a revenant.

Taught the 'way' does not always mean 'power'Glint have not demonstrated any power related to the Mist, but I think it's reasonable for Glint to teach someone the knowledge/ability how to manipulate an object of power to access the Mist

The word "Invocate" means to call upon (an agent, esp God or another deity) for help, inspiration, etc

That's why I think Glint taught Rytlock the ability is to call upon the spirits and manipulate the power of the spirits rather than imbune revenant with the power to directly manipulate the Mist (to do its biddings)

Both Mallyx and Shiro were servants/pawns of Abaddon, so I don't think they will be so willing to share their powers with you, unless you have something of their former master that tricked them to think what they are hearing are the calls from their master; that thing could be something Glint stumpled upon wandering around in the Mist, which could be whatever left of Abaddon after his death

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:but that does not mean he cannot create a rift into Tyria on his own.True, but we've seen no evidence to suggest he can. Based on the animation, the skills that "phase into the Mists" is closer akin to the mursaat's and spirits' ability to go invisible (hence why the revenant goes invisible) by stepping partway into the Mists / the Spirit Realm. Svanir does a similar thing in Eye of the North.

@"crepuscular.9047" said:like I said above, Margonite relied upon Abaddon's power and knowledge to create the Chaos Rift, here's the outpost description from in-game.

The Shadow Nexus is but a single shard of reality left behind by the Five Gods when they imprisoned Abaddon. Once used to control access to his realm, Abaddon has turned their clever scheme upon them and now uses the Nexus to send his foul spawn of Torment to invade other realities.It's still technically not Abaddon's power. To use your own wording, Abaddon "taught the way" for Margonites to use the Shadow Nexus so that they can enter Tyria.

@"crepuscular.9047" said:Both Mallyx and Shiro were servants/pawns of Abaddon, so I don't think they will be so willing to share their powers with youWith Mallyx, I'd agree, especially given he threatens (uselessly) the PC. Shiro, however, says "I have returned, to fight at your side." and "We must rise and return to the fight!" as well as "Together we have no equal!" So he seems pretty willing to share his power.

But that's the thing, the echoes that we're channeling don't have a say in the matter. Mallyx bites and threatens and yanks for freedom and domination, but it all proves fruitless. Revenants don't ask for aid and cooperation like ritualists do. They take it.

And I think this was part of the original lore about revenants and their tactics being so dangerous - because originally legends could harm them, and Mallyx did, if they didn't like being used.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Scourges come closer to using his power than revenants since they literally draw from the realm of torment.

[derd.6413]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@derd.6413 said:a theory brought to you by stretch armstrong

Nothing wrong with theory crafting when anet doesnt like to explain things properly ::p>

doesn't make it any less of a stretch. mist magic wasn't anything new (see: fractals) and not all magic comes from the human gods so why should rev be?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@crepuscular.9047 said:Where did Rytlock/Revenant's Mistward armor came from in the Mist?

• Where do all drops from Fractals come from? They are formed by the mists. There's something different between memories of people and memories of loot that allows us to take the loot out of the fractals, while people just 'resets'. Maybe memories of things with a soul can't leave without that soul?

Z Also, how did Rytlock mastered Revenant abilities in such a short space of time, considering he must have spent quite some time wandering around looking for Sohothin. (he was already in Mistward armor when he found Sohothin)

• Time passes differently in the mists. You could be there years from your point of view and only seconds may have passed in Tyria. But even if time passed at the same rate, there was still enough time for Rytlock to be lost for a while, meet the memory of Glint, learn Revenant skills, then find the sword between him jumping into the mists casing after the sword and him coming out to save the day. And remember that Rytlock had to wear a bandage over his eyes for a while, this is because his training was not done yet, he still had to get used to his new senses.

The only other known mortal races we know of in lore that were able to freely traverse between Tyria and the Mist were the Mursaats (secret knowledge) and Margonite (Abaddon's power).

• And forgotten, and many spirits, demonds and djinn. There's also other methods that allow others two enter the mists, maybe not as 'freely', but they still work. Like havroun powers, ancient jotun spells, asura devices, and priests of Grenth.

What if the source of Revenant power actually came from the Mist weapons and the Mistward armor, which was forged from what was left of Abaddon after he died in Nightfall?

• Gear has nothing to do with the Revenant power. We know this because we are stripped of all gear and we are still able to free ourselves from a jail by channeling the legend of joko. We also see how Rytlock's eyes change color from pale blue to a bright yellow. Whatever changed in Rytlock, it affected his mind and his eyes, it didn't come from his gear.

Glint did not teach Rytlock Revenant's power, but rather how to draw out and control the remanent of Abaddon's power he had secretly infused into his armor (he is the god of secrets after all)

• Glint taught Rytlock a power that appears to be based mostly on what seems to be a combination of Ritualist and Dervish powers. This allows them to draw energy and memories of legends from the mists to use those powers as their own.

At the end of the day, Abaddon is gone, and all that's left of him is lost knowledge and artifacts that can still maintain its enchantments on their own without having to feed on his power, like his statues.