Question For All of You: Is Preaching A Religion or a Political Viewpoint Allowed By The ToS?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@lokh.2695 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:Never enable map chat, you

lunatic

! You get the religious and trump nutballs preaching the end of the world. :p

Is that the US mapchat? Playing on EU, we do get the nutjobs every now and then, preaching whatever ideology is theirs but I have never seen ppl go on about it for hours or, as mentioned in the OP, copy/pasing scriptures into mapchat or trying to missionize the pvp lobby. o.O

Sadly, the U.S. political environment is in a dark place right now. And yes, that's quite common in a lot of game chats. They love to go on and on about their . . . ahem . . . leader. God help you if you trigger them. Then they will talk for hours. It's pretty much why I have map chat disabled these days.

[Malediktus.9250]

This must be a NA megaserver thing, I cannot remember when I saw serious religious or political discussions on EU megaservr last time

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

You are correct about this, Anet is a very "liberal" company with strong virtue signalling

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

Depends. Whether it's accepted by the ToS or not, I think it's morally in the gray area. No matter how righteous religions appear to be, they are often based on old texts and conservative thoughts, meaning racism, sexism and intolerance towards minorities. And that's certainly not okay in a community like this.

However, preaching about love and happiness and goodwill is okay in my book, as long as it's not disturbing and religion is not being forced on anyone. Same goes for the political views; arguing your opinion is fine in a polite manner, as long as no one is being harassed and the conversation isn't getting out of hand.

[derd.6413]

praise the six

[Omega.6801]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:Never enable map chat, you

lunatic

! You get the religious and trump nutballs preaching the end of the world. :p

Is that the US mapchat? Playing on EU, we do get the nutjobs every now and then, preaching whatever ideology is theirs but I have never seen ppl go on about it for hours or, as mentioned in the OP, copy/pasing scriptures into mapchat or trying to missionize the pvp lobby. o.O

Sadly, the U.S. political environment is in a dark place right now. And yes, that's quite common in a lot of game chats. They love to go on and on about their . . . ahem . . . leader. God help you if you trigger them. Then they

will

talk for hours. It's pretty much why I have map chat disabled these days.

Dark times for MMO-escapism indeed it seems. The preaching and copypasting of bible passages is a thing there as well?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@lokh.2695 Again, sadly, I wish it wasn't. Hopefully, that will all end when a certain person is . . . removed. A lot of his followers are emboldened with ignorance. We can't go a week without some idiot spewing or showing his or her stupidity, and it not going viral worldwide.

I sure as heck don't want to see or hear that mess in my game. ?

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Andrew Man.7239" said:Picture this: You're going into a map to do a boss or into the PvP lobby to do some matches, and you check map chat. In there you see a lot of people copying and pasting scriptures from religious texts, speaking explicitly about their political views, and trying to convert others to a religion.

As soon as they start to sound like fanatics who are trying to "convert" others (or offend them), report them on the spot. Religious (or any sort of) fanatism has no place in a friendly, open-minded game.

[Ahnog.8795]

I'm a retired minister and I haven't witness any thing like this. I guess I run in different circles than you do.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

I'd imagine as long as it doesn't incite an argument of any nature it's fine.

[blambidy.3216]

Honestly it isn’t violating rules talking about religions. However, what the person violates is offending players, or spamming. People posting about religion and then maybe whispering after ignoring could be considered harassment. But if they are just flooding chat then, it’s spamming. But if the person is just speaking about it, it isn’t violating. What you should do is report for spamming, block them, and then wait for arenanet to make a desicion. But an actual violation of just talking about religion? That isn’t violating. But depending on how the person posts on chat or does to players, you can be like illicit behavior or something. And maybe something would happen.

[Liewec.2896]

it must be allowed, i see enough religious loons standing around in heart of the mists spamming their mythologythat if it wasn't allowed i doubt it'd be such a regular thing because they'd all be banned XD

[b k.1648]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:You are correct about this, Anet is a very "liberal" company with strong virtue signalling

Whatever that means, anti-discrimination clauses are a necessity if you want your playerbase to be as large as possible.

Regarding whether proselytizing is acceptable in-game, it doesn't seem to be explicitly outlined in the Rules of Conduct: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

However there are a few sections that could potentially be used to police this.

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

3. You may not create character names or otherwise transmit, post, link to or facilitate the distribution of any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, infringing, obscene, hateful, vulgar, racially or ethnically offensive, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, or objectionable in a reasonable person’s view imagery or content.

7. You may not market, promote, advertise, or solicit within the Guild Wars 2 Game or on the official Guild Wars 2 websites.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

I agree with this. The rules are set up to encourage an echo chamber on certain topics(really noticeable on the forums). I do think it is okay to chat about religion and politics so long is there are interested parties, but I don't think it is cool to proselytize map wide to people who are obviously not interested.

Keep in mind that the topic of this thread wasnt about interested people chatting about the topics mentioned but rather about people preaching their views on the topics in map chat.

I believe I addressed the topic of this thread with the last line of my original statement.> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

I agree with this. The rules are set up to encourage an echo chamber on certain topics(really noticeable on the forums). I do think it is okay to chat about religion and politics so long is there are interested parties, but I don't think it is cool to proselytize map wide to people who are obviously not interested.

[STIHL.2489]

As long as they are not spamming, attacking (harassing/insulting) anyone, or selling gold, In-Game chat is pretty wide open.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I believe the Firemen in 451 had the right idea, if it has the potential to offend any one ban it from discussion; seems to be the way things are run here.

For example as an Atheist I don't feel comfortable being near conversations of faith which contradicts any test of logic I can think of, so I would feel better if it's not discussed at all.

Politics is way too polarized these days and few people seem to be able to have a rational discussion about it so that should be off limits as well.

If you see it call the Firemen.

That's not a judgement against moderation by the way just an observation.

[Gustaff.6581]

Really i never notice what people writes in the chat and if eventually someone comes to whisper me about some idea of political or religious matter, i would just block him/her and keep playing. It happens that, compared to real life, i never see my integrity compromised by others when im behind of a computer.

what it is annoying tough, is the spamming, but happens very rarely today.

PRAISE JOKO!!

[STIHL.2489]

I tend to agree that there is a problem growing among many industrialized nations that it is acceptable to take personal offence if someone says anything against what one holds or believes in. There is a massive difference between expressing a personal view, or belief, and expression a personal attack, and it seems that, as time goes one, more and more people are being conditioned to seem them both as the same thing, which is, if you think about it, a very insidious way to annihilate our freedom of expression, where we get to the point of self censorship simply because someone else might take offence in what we think or feel, even if it has no relation to them directly.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:You are correct about this, Anet is a very "liberal" company with strong virtue signalling

Whatever that means, anti-discrimination clauses are a necessity if you want your playerbase to be as large as possible.

To help translate for you: Virtue Signalling is the current term in vogue for declaring that some actions are motivated explicitly by the desire to be seen to be good, in order to improve your social standing. It is the same basic tactic as the "white knight" declarations that proceeded it: declare that an action is taken with the intent of being seen as good, thus rendering it ... tainted, somehow.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:You are correct about this, Anet is a very "liberal" company with strong virtue signalling

Whatever that means, anti-discrimination clauses are a necessity if you want your playerbase to be as large as possible.

To help translate for you:

Virtue Signalling

is the current term in vogue for declaring that some actions are motivated explicitly by the desire to be

seen

to be good, in order to improve your social standing. It is the same basic tactic as the "white knight" declarations that proceeded it: declare that an action is taken with the intent of being seen as good, thus rendering it ... tainted, somehow.

I just assume spell it out for people since most people reading what you're saying lack the ability to understand where you're coming from unless you use a heavy overly worded explanation in order for them to get it, that's not tainted that's just stupid proofing it.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

A US liberal might be seen as conservative in European nations, which is always fun. Relative comparisons, woo!

And you struggle with a humanist standpoint? Wait, so treating everyone as equals is a bad thing? Cruuuuuuud.

[STIHL.2489]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

A US liberal might be seen as conservative in European nations, which is always fun. Relative comparisons, woo!

And you struggle with a humanist standpoint? Wait, so treating everyone as equals is a bad thing? Cruuuuuuud.

And old people scream about "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

Lul, who's oversensitive?

I believe there is a strange irony to that one, as no one says "Happy Holidays" at Halloween.. which is a deeply pagan holiday, yet there is a move to remove the Christian aspect of the Christmas Holiday. To be fair, if there was any real motive to be respectful, all Holidays should be addressed simply as "Happy Holidays" not just the one during Christmas Time.. don't you think?

[Vagrant.7206]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

A US liberal might be seen as conservative in European nations, which is always fun. Relative comparisons, woo!

And you struggle with a humanist standpoint? Wait, so treating everyone as equals is a bad thing? Cruuuuuuud.And old people scream about "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

Lul, who's oversensitive?

I believe there is a strange irony to that one, as no one says "Happy Holidays" at Halloween.. which is a deeply pagan holiday, yet there is a move to remove the Christian aspect of the Christmas Holiday. To be fair, if there was any real motive to be respectful, all Holidays should be addressed simply as "Happy Holidays" not just the one during Christmas Time.. don't you think?

Halloween is a bit unique to European paganism, it's not a particularly common point for several religions to have major holidays.

The weeks surrounding the winter equinox, however, are chock full of different religious holidays. So in this case, Happy Holidays is a bit more applicable to include other possibilities.

[STIHL.2489]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The ToS itself takes a U.S. liberal + humanist standpoint. It is O.K. to talk about anything, so long as it fits within the acceptable range as deemed by that standpoint. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of conservative positions that are considered punishable on sight, as I and many others have learned the hard way.

A US liberal might be seen as conservative in European nations, which is always fun. Relative comparisons, woo!

And you struggle with a humanist standpoint? Wait, so treating everyone as equals is a bad thing? Cruuuuuuud.

I believe there is a strange irony to that one, as no one says "Happy Holidays" at Halloween.. which is a deeply pagan holiday, yet there is a move to remove the Christian aspect of the Christmas Holiday. To be fair, if there was any real motive to be respectful, all Holidays should be addressed simply as "Happy Holidays" not just the one during Christmas Time.. don't you think?

Halloween is a bit unique to European paganism, it's not a particularly common point for several religions to have major holidays.

The weeks surrounding the winter equinox, however, are chock full of different religious holidays. So in this case, Happy Holidays is a bit more applicable to include other possibilities.

There are a substantial number of Christians (and other religions) that view the Halloween Festival as being very offending, don't you think there should be respect given to them, to not shove this holiday down their throat, and instead simply say "Happy Holidays" and allow them to celebrate anything they like, or nothing at all.

I mean, if the goal here is to be respectful then respect should be given to all, don't you think?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

It's simple. If someone asks you not to use certain words or language around them, civilized and respectful people will do so when politely asked. Disrespectful people will call entire groups names, demand their right to say whatever they want, and then turn around and call others sensitive and snowflakes.

Please don't ask others to give you the right to say what you want and then ask them not to do the same for themselves.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:You are correct about this, Anet is a very "liberal" company with strong virtue signalling

Whatever that means, anti-discrimination clauses are a necessity if you want your playerbase to be as large as possible.

To help translate for you:

Virtue Signalling

is the current term in vogue for declaring that some actions are motivated explicitly by the desire to be

seen

to be good, in order to improve your social standing. It is the same basic tactic as the "white knight" declarations that proceeded it: declare that an action is taken with the intent of being seen as good, thus rendering it ... tainted, somehow.

I'm going to put on my Captain Explainer costume, and explain this one, too. Or rather, Jules Feifer is going to explain it:

"I used to think I was poor. Then they told me I wasn't poor, I was needy. Then they told me it was self-defeating to think of myself as needy. I was deprived. (Oh not deprived but rather underprivileged.) Then they told me that underprivileged was overused. I was disadvantaged. I still don't have a dime. But I have a great vocabulary.”

To be virtuous is an act, not a phrase. The people who really care about the poor are the ones who serve in soup kitchens and apprentice troubled individuals in their businesses, or donate to charities. The people who say they care but do nothing, they're just saying things to reap the accolades and make themselves feel like they're a super duper individual... with a super-duper undeserved ego to match. Implicit in their signals is the call to arms, that other people do not share this view and should be shamed and ashamed. This ultimately has the reverse effect, as people come to resent these virtues because they can't stand all of the people signalling.