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I wish Druids were DPSers and not heals.


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When I finally saw (rather recently as a matter of fact) that Arenanet was adding Druids as a class, along with many other classes, i was so excited. It's part of what made me buy POF and HOT recently and get back into the game to unlock those super cool classes....

.....and then to my regret it wasn't anything like what I wanted in a Druid. I wish in my heart of hearts that it was designed more as a DPS nature-caster rather than a pseudo-CC heals and boon support class.

Part of what drew me to GW2 was its philosophy of abandoning the Heal-DPS-Tank trifecta., and then they turn around and add a heal class to the game. It's confusing to me, a bit. Then they add raids that require people to min-max, whether ANet wanted that to happen or not, it did. We may not officially have tanks, heals and DPS, but really we have to gear to make ourselves tanks, heals and DPS for raids.

Anyway,. Just some food for thought. I wish there was a 'stance' button to switch Druid into doubling its dps abilities and removing heals with its staff skills or something.

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Right before beta, rangers were a force to reckon with. Bleeds insta-stacked, moving spirits buffing continuously, two pets out at the same time stunning players with inescapable lockdowns, and kills so fast you had to slow-motion it in videos to see it.

And then. . . .

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@Lunateric.3708 said:Druid is fine as it is, if you wish to do damage you go Soulbeast.

I mean no offense, but that's not the point I am making. That's not the kind of Druid i wanted to play, or want to play in any MMORPG or RPG for that matter, really. I would at least like the option to be a competent DPS as a Druid class.

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@Martimus.6027 said:When I finally saw (rather recently as a matter of fact) that Arenanet was adding Druids as a class, along with many other classes, i was so excited. It's part of what made me buy POF and HOT recently and get back into the game to unlock those super cool classes....

.....and then to my regret it wasn't anything like what I wanted in a Druid. I wish in my heart of hearts that it was designed more as a DPS nature-caster rather than a pseudo-CC heals and boon support class.

Part of what drew me to GW2 was its philosophy of abandoning the Heal-DPS-Tank trifecta., and then they turn around and add a heal class to the game. It's confusing to me, a bit. Then they add raids that require people to min-max, whether ANet wanted that to happen or not, it did. We may not officially have tanks, heals and DPS, but really we have to gear to make ourselves tanks, heals and DPS for raids.

Anyway,. Just some food for thought. I wish there was a 'stance' button to switch Druid into doubling its dps abilities and removing heals with its staff skills or something.

With nerfs to both precision and our staff, it's not happening any time soon.

I will not give up my Legendary Staff because someone decided that stability and precision aren't necessary for Druids.

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+1 -- I main Ranger and don't do raids, so it feels to me like Rangers only have a single elite spec. I don't mind a healing-focused trait line (a la Salvation in Revenant), but I wish some of the Druid traits allowed you a few more options that worked better when you weren't in a group, or when your group didn't need a dedicated healer.

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"We may not officially have tanks, heals and DPS, but really we have to gear to make ourselves tanks, heals and DPS for raids."

This is just what anet wants. Roles arent class specific, but most profs can do many roles. Yeah meta is meta, but in theory we have many healers, buffers and tanks.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:Druid is fine as it is, if you wish to do damage you go Soulbeast.

I mean no offense, but that's not the point I am making. That's not the kind of Druid i wanted to play, or want to play in any MMORPG or RPG for that matter, really. I would at least like the option to be a competent DPS as a Druid class.

Pick iboga and you are competent dps :D

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Copy paste section of my inprovement thread some months ago.

It only copied the trait section i also covered staff and glyphs in my tgread but just traits would make a big difference.

Druid has 3 distinct component which makes it difficult to handle in regards to changes. First part is support, second part is control and last part is tankiness/Avatar-Utility.Note: I do not look into CAF generation or anything like that, so i will not comment on the first minor. This includes the CA skills. Anything else that does not find any mention here is considered ok IMO. I will list the whole trait Setup though to give an overview how i want to shuffle the traits arround.I will change the Lines specifically into these three distinct lines: Glyph Focussed (CC oriented), support focussed (heal and buffs) and Competitive orientation.Minors:

  1. Celestial being
  2. Live Vicariously
  3. Cultivated SynergyNo changes they are just swapped.(You can give me feedback how strong this would be though, maybe would need some tweaks in competitive modes)Glyphs and CC Line:Adept:Verdant Etching:Same effect as we know it but now an adept. I moved it to adept so it will not conflict with the new staff trait which will be a master. So you can still use the glyph and the staff trait at once.Master:Primal Echoes:Trigger a Lesser Glyph of Equality (The Regular One) when weaponswaping.Has the ICD of any normal weaponswap trait. (maybe differ in competitive mode)It was a good trait but it was more an escape tool to daze someone before whispering away with staff. this way it can be used more universally.Grandmaster:Ancient Seeds:As we know it.So the idea about this line is for PvP or aggressive PvE usage. It gives some cleanses, some CC and some condis. but mainly it is for close combat use and aggressive play.Support Line:Adept:Natural Stride: Is now a party wide buff. Similar to spotter.(you can give me feedback on that too, it was a spontanious idea and i thought a party wide movement buff would be nice for WvW and condi reduction is always something)Maybe it could reduce condi duration overall so it has uses in condi heavy encounters in Pve but i dont know if this would be to strong, also here i would like to here some feedback.Master:Natural Mender:New Staff Trait. Combines the effect of natural mender with a CD reduction of staff.Makes staff automatically more potentGrandmaster:Grace of the Land:As we know it.All of these are altruistic traits that still have their benefits to the druid himself.Competitive Line:Adept:Druidic ClarityMaster:Celestial ShadowGrandmaster:Lingering Light:Blasting a field will now dmg and blind up to 5 foes and heal up to 5 allies.Heal and blind stay at the same values i suppose.
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@InsaneQR.7412 said:Copy paste section of my inprovement thread some months ago.

It only copied the trait section i also covered staff and glyphs in my tgread but just traits would make a big difference.

Druid has 3 distinct component which makes it difficult to handle in regards to changes. First part is support, second part is control and last part is tankiness/Avatar-Utility.Note: I do not look into CAF generation or anything like that, so i will not comment on the first minor. This includes the CA skills. Anything else that does not find any mention here is considered ok IMO. I will list the whole trait Setup though to give an overview how i want to shuffle the traits arround.I will change the Lines specifically into these three distinct lines: Glyph Focussed (CC oriented), support focussed (heal and buffs) and Competitive orientation.Minors:

  1. Celestial being
  2. Live Vicariously
  3. Cultivated SynergyNo changes they are just swapped.(You can give me feedback how strong this would be though, maybe would need some tweaks in competitive modes)Glyphs and CC Line:Adept:Verdant Etching:Same effect as we know it but now an adept. I moved it to adept so it will not conflict with the new staff trait which will be a master. So you can still use the glyph and the staff trait at once.Master:Primal Echoes:Trigger a Lesser Glyph of Equality (The Regular One) when weaponswaping.Has the ICD of any normal weaponswap trait. (maybe differ in competitive mode)It was a good trait but it was more an escape tool to daze someone before whispering away with staff. this way it can be used more universally.Grandmaster:Ancient Seeds:As we know it.So the idea about this line is for PvP or aggressive PvE usage. It gives some cleanses, some CC and some condis. but mainly it is for close combat use and aggressive play.Support Line:Adept:Natural Stride: Is now a party wide buff. Similar to spotter.(you can give me feedback on that too, it was a spontanious idea and i thought a party wide movement buff would be nice for WvW and condi reduction is always something)Maybe it could reduce condi duration overall so it has uses in condi heavy encounters in Pve but i dont know if this would be to strong, also here i would like to here some feedback.Master:Natural Mender:New Staff Trait. Combines the effect of natural mender with a CD reduction of staff.Makes staff automatically more potentGrandmaster:Grace of the Land:As we know it.All of these are altruistic traits that still have their benefits to the druid himself.Competitive Line:Adept:Druidic ClarityMaster:Celestial ShadowGrandmaster:Lingering Light:Blasting a field will now dmg and blind up to 5 foes and heal up to 5 allies.Heal and blind stay at the same values i suppose.

What does this have to do with my topic of wanting Druid to be DPS or at least able to do competitive DPS?

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@Uden Reavstone.3426 said:So let me get this straight: you're mad that what is traditionally a support class is a support class in GW2?

No. You didn't get it straight at all. That's not at all what I or anyone else has said, at all, on any of these posts. What are you even talking about? Sorry but, terrible attempt at trolling and snark.

What?! I'm not trolling or being snarky at all. You said that you want druid to be a dps class, did you not? I'm just pointing out that traditionally, druids are a support class and asking why you would expect it to be any different in this game.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Copy paste section of my inprovement thread some months ago.

It only copied the trait section i also covered staff and glyphs in my tgread but just traits would make a big difference.

Druid has 3 distinct component which makes it difficult to handle in regards to changes. First part is support, second part is control and last part is tankiness/Avatar-Utility.Note: I do not look into CAF generation or anything like that, so i will not comment on the first minor. This includes the CA skills. Anything else that does not find any mention here is considered ok IMO. I will list the whole trait Setup though to give an overview how i want to shuffle the traits arround.I will change the Lines specifically into these three distinct lines: Glyph Focussed (CC oriented), support focussed (heal and buffs) and Competitive orientation.Minors:
  1. Celestial being
  2. Live Vicariously
  3. Cultivated SynergyNo changes they are just swapped.(You can give me feedback how strong this would be though, maybe would need some tweaks in competitive modes)Glyphs and CC Line:Adept:Verdant Etching:Same effect as we know it but now an adept. I moved it to adept so it will not conflict with the new staff trait which will be a master. So you can still use the glyph and the staff trait at once.Master:Primal Echoes:Trigger a Lesser Glyph of Equality (The Regular One) when weaponswaping.Has the ICD of any normal weaponswap trait. (maybe differ in competitive mode)It was a good trait but it was more an escape tool to daze someone before whispering away with staff. this way it can be used more universally.Grandmaster:Ancient Seeds:As we know it.So the idea about this line is for PvP or aggressive PvE usage. It gives some cleanses, some CC and some condis. but mainly it is for close combat use and aggressive play.Support Line:Adept:Natural Stride: Is now a party wide buff. Similar to spotter.(you can give me feedback on that too, it was a spontanious idea and i thought a party wide movement buff would be nice for WvW and condi reduction is always something)Maybe it could reduce condi duration overall so it has uses in condi heavy encounters in Pve but i dont know if this would be to strong, also here i would like to here some feedback.Master:Natural Mender:New Staff Trait. Combines the effect of natural mender with a CD reduction of staff.Makes staff automatically more potentGrandmaster:Grace of the Land:As we know it.All of these are altruistic traits that still have their benefits to the druid himself.Competitive Line:Adept:Druidic ClarityMaster:Celestial ShadowGrandmaster:Lingering Light:Blasting a field will now dmg and blind up to 5 foes and heal up to 5 allies.Heal and blind stay at the same values i suppose.

What does this have to do with my topic of wanting Druid to be DPS or at least able to do competitive DPS?

It makes its role more distinct.With more CC and better offensive combos it can be utilized more offensively.I keep it realistic that there will not be a total overhaul to make druid a dps spec. But to make it more iffensive is definetly possible.

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@Uden Reavstone.3426 said:

@Uden Reavstone.3426 said:So let me get this straight: you're mad that what is traditionally a support class is a support class in GW2?

No. You didn't get it straight at all. That's not at all what I or anyone else has said, at all, on any of these posts. What are you even talking about? Sorry but, terrible attempt at trolling and snark.

What?! I'm not trolling or being snarky at all. You said that you want druid to be a dps class, did you not? I'm just pointing out that traditionally, druids are a support class and asking why you would expect it to be any different in this game.

Traditionally, they aren't a support class....

In Diablo II they are pure DPS.

In WoW, they can do all of it. Melee DPS, Tank, Heals, Ranged DPS, but most players who play Druids aren't support(heals).

In DND, there really isn't a trifecta, but they are more than capable of just blasting absolute destruction onto their enemies. Call Lightning, Produce Fire, Summon Greater Elemental, Wildshaping into an Ancient Wyrm or a Greater Elemental and leveling the battlefield. Causing Earthquakes. Tornadoes. Hurricanes. Tsunamis.

In Pillars of Eternity they have a tiny handful of regeneration spells, but mostly they use AOE damage based spells from nature and weather. Plus shapeshifting into melee DPS forms.

In Titan Quest, they are Frost and Nature DPS dealers who can also spec to summon a pack of wolves and dryads and wisps.

.......in GW2, they shoot little light lasers that sound like a submarine sonar ping, and little vines and balls of light.....eyeroll

I really don't know why people think Druids are supposed to be a healing support class. They were Elementalists back in most progenitor RPG's before elementalists were even a concept.

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If anything, the common druid tropes in fantasy are:

  • Shapeshifting
  • Weather/plant manipulation
  • Summon creatures/spirits
  • Animal companions

Most of these are already components of the Ranger class to some extent. The GW2 take is fairly unique. But I think the issue isn’t so much the fantasy of the elite spec as it is the lack of interaction with pet selection or other traitlines. Soulbeast does both quite well.

That said, I think a fair critique would be that a “DPS Druid” is just a Druid with two DPS-focused specs in the other two slots. I think you could put together a fine power spec with marksmanship and beastmastery that uses a mix of crusader and zealots, or a fair condi build with wilderness survival and skirmishing in apothecary (or possibly celestial) gear.

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@Ryrok.1302 said:If anything, the common druid tropes in fantasy are:

  • Shapeshifting
  • Weather/plant manipulation
  • Summon creatures/spirits
  • Animal companions

Most of these are already components of the Ranger class to some extent. The GW2 take is fairly unique. But I think the issue isn’t so much the fantasy of the elite spec as it is the lack of interaction with pet selection or other traitlines. Soulbeast does both quite well.

That said, I think a fair critique would be that a “DPS Druid” is just a Druid with two DPS-focused specs in the other two slots. I think you could put together a fine power spec with marksmanship and beastmastery that uses a mix of crusader and zealots, or a fair condi build with wilderness survival and skirmishing in apothecary (or possibly celestial) gear.

Maybe so, but the fact remains that the specific Druid abilities are just healing spells. Nerfed ones at that.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:Druid is fine as it is, if you wish to do damage you go Soulbeast.

I mean no offense, but that's not the point I am making. That's not the kind of Druid i wanted to play, or want to play in any MMORPG or RPG for that matter, really. I would at least like the option to be a competent DPS as a Druid class.

Pick iboga and you are competent dps :D

R.I.P.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:

  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:
  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

Back in MY day Druids didn't even heal! They just Innervated the REAL healers.

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