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I wish Druids were DPSers and not heals.


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@Martimus.6027

I am sorry man, but I really don't understand why you posted this in the first place. You are, yourself, the initial source of your disappointment; you were expecting (and not hoping for) something that you had no reason to expect whatsoever and now you are upset and posting on the forums about this. WHAT?!? Do you believe that A-Net lives in your mind? Is this post a demand that A-Net should start doing so? It is not like they will rework the druid elite spec to make it DPS instead of healing, it has been out for 3 years now.

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@Eme.2018 said:@Martimus.6027

I am sorry man, but I really don't understand why you posted this in the first place. You are, yourself, the initial source of your disappointment; you were expecting (and not hoping for) something that you had no reason to expect whatsoever and now you are upset and posting on the forums about this. WHAT?!? Do you believe that A-Net lives in your mind? Is this post a demand that A-Net should start doing so? It is not like they will rework the druid elite spec to make it DPS instead of healing, it has been out for 3 years now.

You do not know my emotional state.

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Your perception of the game mechanics is flawed.

Druid is not a class. It is a specialization. Specializations, as the name clearly implies, specialize a class into a certain role. Druid is a spec designed to specialize ranger's nature wielding abilities into supportive cause.

Saying "I want druid to be DPS" is like saying "I want marksmanship line to be based around greatsword".

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Druids have always been more support and utility focused in RPGs, just because you can name some games that have offensive oriented Druids doesn’t mean that the class as a whole isn’t support or utility focused. Hell, in Diablo the Druid themself doesn’t even have too much offense in the magical department most of its offense is summoning and shapeshifting which in the GW universe means Soulbeast, same with WoW.

The only part about Druid in GW2 Anet in my opinion dropped the ball on was by going full on into the astral aspect, where in my opinion they should’ve gone with a duality thing and kept the astral celestial bodies thin in Avatar state, and then made the normal form glyphs and staff skills almost entirely plant/elemental magic based.

If you want a master of using the elements for death and destruction you can play elementalist and just dress them as s Druid and call yourself a Druid, might I recommend the Tribal armor set?

Or, you could always wait for rangers to get another magical elite spec that uses a scepter and a bunch of offensive magic, which judging by the group we have found in the latest Living World Episode makes me think it’s very likely to happen.

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@"Durzlla.6295" said:Druids have always been more support and utility focused in RPGs, just because you can name some games that have offensive oriented Druids doesn’t mean that the class as a whole isn’t support or utility focused. Hell, in Diablo the Druid themself doesn’t even have too much offense in the magical department most of its offense is summoning and shapeshifting which in the GW universe means Soulbeast, same with WoW.

The only part about Druid in GW2 Anet in my opinion dropped the ball on was by going full on into the astral aspect, where in my opinion they should’ve gone with a duality thing and kept the astral celestial bodies thin in Avatar state, and then made the normal form glyphs and staff skills almost entirely plant/elemental magic based.

If you want a master of using the elements for death and destruction you can play elementalist and just dress them as s Druid and call yourself a Druid, might I recommend the Tribal armor set?

Or, you could always wait for rangers to get another magical elite spec that uses a scepter and a bunch of offensive magic, which judging by the group we have found in the latest Living World Episode makes me think it’s very likely to happen.

You are absolutely wrong.

I've played as a Druid ever since the class was first introduced in DND over 30 years ago, back when it started out that you had to be a Bard first and progress to being a Druid, and even still then, it wasn't a "support" class.

"Just because you can name SOME games that have offensive oriented Druids" - What?? The overwhelming majority of the games that even have Druid class in it are offensive oriented! Here I'll illustrate how silly that statement is: " Just because you named the vast majority of games with Druids in it and they are overwhelmingly offensive ranged damage dealers doesn't mean they aren't support somehow." confused stare

The Druid in D2 has TWO skill trees that are both offensive. Elemental and Shapeshifting. Summoning tree only has a couple supportive abilities - the spirits. And only one of the abilities heals - the corpse vine. Support indeed....

I'll turn the tables on you: "Just because you think a druid should only be seen as support doesn't make it so."

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@"Durzlla.6295" said:Druids have always been more support and utility focused in RPGs, just because you can name some games that have offensive oriented Druids doesn’t mean that the class as a whole isn’t support or utility focused. Hell, in Diablo the Druid themself doesn’t even have too much offense in the magical department most of its offense is summoning and shapeshifting which in the GW universe means Soulbeast, same with WoW.

The only part about Druid in GW2 Anet in my opinion dropped the ball on was by going full on into the astral aspect, where in my opinion they should’ve gone with a duality thing and kept the astral celestial bodies thin in Avatar state, and then made the normal form glyphs and staff skills almost entirely plant/elemental magic based.

If you want a master of using the elements for death and destruction you can play elementalist and just dress them as s Druid and call yourself a Druid, might I recommend the Tribal armor set?

Or, you could always wait for rangers to get another magical elite spec that uses a scepter and a bunch of offensive magic, which judging by the group we have found in the latest Living World Episode makes me think it’s very likely to happen.

You are absolutely wrong.

I've played as a Druid ever since the class was first introduced in DND over 30 years ago, back when it started out that you had to be a Bard first and progress to being a Druid, and even still then, it wasn't a "support" class.

"Just because you can name SOME games that have offensive oriented Druids" - What?? The overwhelming majority of the games that even have Druid class in it are offensive oriented! Here I'll illustrate how silly that statement is: " Just because you named the vast majority of games with Druids in it and they are overwhelmingly offensive ranged damage dealers doesn't mean they aren't support somehow."
confused stare

The Druid in D2 has TWO skill trees that are both offensive. Elemental and Shapeshifting. Summoning tree only has a couple supportive abilities - the spirits. And only one of the abilities heals - the corpse vine. Support indeed....

I'll turn the tables on you: "Just because you think a druid should only be seen as support doesn't make it so."

Clearly you didn’t play the first DnD then, because you had to have levels in Druid to become a bard... not the other way around, and as is the case now Druids had a vast majority of their spells for utility and support and a handful of offensive spells.

And if you looked at what I said about D2 I said offense in the MAGICAL department, their primary offenses were shapeshifting and summoning, and the summoning provided some health and damage buffs for you, allies, and all your summons too. It’s also a game about murdering everything you encounter, so if a class in that game wasn’t offensive, it’d be... very weird...

I’m not saying Druids do not have the capability to be offensive oriented, or that they can’t be, in saying that they’re NORMALLY a utility/support caster. I mean hell you can be a damage Druid in GW2, you just won’t deal as much damage as a true damage dealer because you have an entire traitline focused on support.

I’d suggest you just wait for ranger to get another elite spec that’s a true offensive caster (it’s going to happen, it’s just a matter of time) or you do as I recommended and just roll an elementalist and pretend you’re a Druid.

Also, after a quick look at EQ 1 and 2s website they’re sold as healers who buff, and also have a few offensive spells, not as a DPS as you implied earlier.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:Druids have always been more support and utility focused in RPGs, just because you can name some games that have offensive oriented Druids doesn’t mean that the class as a whole isn’t support or utility focused. Hell, in Diablo the Druid themself doesn’t even have too much offense in the magical department most of its offense is summoning and shapeshifting which in the GW universe means Soulbeast, same with WoW.

The only part about Druid in GW2 Anet in my opinion dropped the ball on was by going full on into the astral aspect, where in my opinion they should’ve gone with a duality thing and kept the astral celestial bodies thin in Avatar state, and then made the normal form glyphs and staff skills almost entirely plant/elemental magic based.

If you want a master of using the elements for death and destruction you can play elementalist and just dress them as s Druid and call yourself a Druid, might I recommend the Tribal armor set?

Or, you could always wait for rangers to get another magical elite spec that uses a scepter and a bunch of offensive magic, which judging by the group we have found in the latest Living World Episode makes me think it’s very likely to happen.

You are absolutely wrong.

I've played as a Druid ever since the class was first introduced in DND over 30 years ago, back when it started out that you had to be a Bard first and progress to being a Druid, and even still then, it wasn't a "support" class.

"Just because you can name SOME games that have offensive oriented Druids" - What?? The overwhelming majority of the games that even have Druid class in it are offensive oriented! Here I'll illustrate how silly that statement is: " Just because you named the vast majority of games with Druids in it and they are overwhelmingly offensive ranged damage dealers doesn't mean they aren't support somehow."
confused stare

The Druid in D2 has TWO skill trees that are both offensive. Elemental and Shapeshifting. Summoning tree only has a couple supportive abilities - the spirits. And only one of the abilities heals - the corpse vine. Support indeed....

I'll turn the tables on you: "Just because you think a druid should only be seen as support doesn't make it so."

Clearly you didn’t play the first DnD then, because you had to have levels in Druid to become a bard... not the other way around, and as is the case now Druids had a vast majority of their spells for utility and support and a handful of offensive spells.

And if you looked at what I said about D2 I said offense in the MAGICAL department, their primary offenses were shapeshifting and summoning, and the summoning provided some health and damage buffs for you, allies, and all your summons too. It’s also a game about murdering everything you encounter, so if a class in that game wasn’t offensive, it’d be... very weird...

I’m not saying Druids do not have the capability to be offensive oriented, or that they can’t be, in saying that they’re NORMALLY a utility/support caster. I mean hell you can be a damage Druid in GW2, you just won’t deal as much damage as a true damage dealer because you have an entire traitline focused on support.

I’d suggest you just wait for ranger to get another elite spec that’s a true offensive caster (it’s going to happen, it’s just a matter of time) or you do as I recommended and just roll an elementalist and pretend you’re a Druid.

Also, after a quick look at EQ 1 and 2s website they’re sold as healers who buff, and also have a few offensive spells, not as a DPS as you implied earlier.

Me having a fuzzy memory doesn't diminish my point in any way. It was 30+ years ago. Having said that, Are you honestly telling me that shapeshifting a few times per day into an animal which may or may not be very offensively oriented is more "DPS" per se than summoning tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning bolts from the sky, and earthquakes?

Ok. If you think that, there's no dialogue we can come to an agreement on. The repertoire of DND Druidic offensive spells >>>>>>>>>> their shapeshifting abilities.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:
  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

Cool. Go play a Druid in those games. Problem solved.

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@thefantasticg.3984 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:
  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

Cool. Go play a Druid in those games. Problem solved.

I already have. If you don't like what I say in this forum, go comment in another post. Problem solved.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:
  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

Cool. Go play a Druid in those games. Problem solved.

I already have. If you don't like what I say in this forum, go comment in another post. Problem solved.

Cool. Play them again... Problem solved.

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@thefantasticg.3984 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Elementalist already fills the role of power nuker with nature magic I feel.

Yes. That's precisely the point I made earlier in a post. Elementalist does "Druid" better than Druid does in GW2. It displeases me.

Aside from Boomkins in WoW druids are almost never offensively oriented.

Tell that to:
  • World of Warcraft
  • Titan Quest
  • Diablo II
  • EQ2
  • Grim Dawn
  • Baldur's Gate
  • Baldur's Gate II
  • Ultima series
  • Magic: the Gathering...

I could go on......but you get my point. Sorry, but you aren't correct on that statement.

Cool. Go play a Druid in those games. Problem solved.

I already have. If you don't like what I say in this forum, go comment in another post. Problem solved.

Cool. Play them again... Problem solved.

Yes, try and silence a dissenting opinion. Good job.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:This might just be the least constructive thread in this forum.

I'm honored that you helped contribute to it then.

I've contributed as much as you have honestly, you're so caught up over a name to the point of obsession and can't seem to understand that almost nobody is agreeing with you and your 'dissenting opinion' will go nowhere. Elementalist already does all the stuff you want Druid to do and complaining about a name won't change that.

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@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:This might just be the least constructive thread in this forum.

I'm honored that you helped contribute to it then.

I've contributed as much as you have honestly, you're so caught up over a name to the point of obsession and can't seem to understand that almost nobody is agreeing with you and your 'dissenting opinion' will go nowhere. Elementalist already does all the stuff you want Druid to do and complaining about a name won't change that.

This also sparked a discussion about what a Druid class is and what people expect from it.

It's a forum. You know. Where discussions take place.

But you coming here and stating things like "nobody agrees with you" simply because you don 't is false logic. I don't expect my 'dissenting opinion' to go anywhere. It's a forum where people politely exchange ideas. Are you a moderator who determines what can and cannot be posted on this forum?

It's also both funny and ironic that you complain about a post not being productive while posting an unproductive comment adding to it. You both assume a moral and ethical high ground, while also wallowing around in the lowbrow gutter you condemn.

Now are we done here? Or do you need the last word? I'll let you have it.

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@Martimus.6027 said:Part of what drew me to GW2 was its philosophy of abandoning the Heal-DPS-Tank trifecta., and then they turn around and add a heal class to the game.

They never said they were abandoning the concept. In fact, they were clear: they were replacing the traditional trinity (Heal|DPS|Tank) with a new trinity (DPS|Support|Control) and were removing the concept that any particular class was required to fulfill any specific role. And that remains true today: there are many types of high-performance healers other than druid, the druid can perform other roles. Plus, nearly any prof has access to a substantive DPS build and even control and support have lots of efficient options.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

Part of what drew me to GW2 was its philosophy of abandoning the Heal-DPS-Tank trifecta., and then they turn around and add a heal class to the game. It's confusing to me, a bit. Then they add raids that require people to min-max, whether ANet wanted that to happen or not, it did. We may not officially have tanks, heals and DPS, but really we have to gear to make ourselves tanks, heals and DPS for raids.

Again, that's a misconception... The Trinity was, and could never be abandoned.

The goal was that the roles would never be bound to a class. Problem was it's poor implementation in core (the game was too easy to require roles, and because there were no support stats to speak of (Concentration and healing power didn't exist) and Conditions were gimped by the max stack size, everyone ran the same build: Berserker.That led to people thinking the goal was that everyone would be a DPSer. Which, anyone playing WvW at the time (and now) would tell you, it's not possible, roles are required for optimal game play.Regardless, that meta prevailed for years, and led to them nerfing a ton of content to be played to that meta. To the point where dungeons were so broken they had to be abandoned.

With HoT came the intent of bringing back some challenge to the game, this, along with Elite Specs allowed them to bring back roles in a more defined way. Problem is, there's not enough Elite Specs (which i warned about pre-HoT, and have been saying so since). In like 8 years from now (if the game still exists) if they keep the release of Elites exclusive to Expansions, we might have enough Elites that every class will be able to play whichever role they want freely again. Until then, posts like this will keep resurfacing.

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@Martimus.6027 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:This might just be the least constructive thread in this forum.

I'm honored that you helped contribute to it then.

I've contributed as much as you have honestly, you're so caught up over a name to the point of obsession and can't seem to understand that almost nobody is agreeing with you and your 'dissenting opinion' will go nowhere. Elementalist already does all the stuff you want Druid to do and complaining about a name won't change that.

This also sparked a discussion about what a Druid class is and what people expect from it.

It's a forum. You know. Where discussions take place.

But you coming here and stating things like "nobody agrees with you" simply because you don 't is false logic. I don't expect my 'dissenting opinion' to go anywhere. It's a forum where people politely exchange ideas. Are you a moderator who determines what can and cannot be posted on this forum?

It's also both funny and ironic that you complain about a post not being productive while posting an unproductive comment adding to it. You both assume a moral and ethical high ground, while also wallowing around in the lowbrow gutter you condemn.

Now are we done here? Or do you need the last word? I'll let you have it.

This whole thread has almost solely been you trying to shout down everyone who has a different opinion or interpretation of "Druid" than you. The way it's been implemented is perfectly valid and serves a nigh indispensable role in the high level PvE meta of the game.

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