What am I missing with Holosmith...?

[Toolbox.9375]

Holosmith seems to have been incredibly well-received. People appear to be very excited for it.

But... Why?

From what I can tell, Holosmith is basically just-... Damage. A lot of damage, but still just damage. Nothing really all that interesting, not quirky new tools to play around with. The only thing I'm finding entertaining, personally, is the Superspeed pad from the traited Forge skill 2, as it gives me a tremendous impact on escort events.

Are there aspects to the elite that I'm not noticing? Because more melee damage hardly interests me. :(

[HotHit.6783]

Holosmith is a proper selfish DPS elite spec, which is a playstyle your average player is biased towards. It's a thematic, high risk, high reward playstyle on the "hardest to play profession", so there's no doubt players will flock to it to prove how pro skilled they are. It brings with it a new tool and lots of different ways to customise that tool to suit your playstyle and needs with no clear clear cut choices for "choose x for more damage", which makes for excellent build crafting and testing. It's also highly likely to be raid viable, so Engis will get to play at endgame with a new playstyle.

Oh and the weapon is a light sabre. I know a couple of people who've been playing Holosmith just to get the light sabre for another character.

Edit: Oh and as for me, I'm playing it because I don't agree with Soulbeast's existence, Weaver seems like it could just be another "bit of everything" spec like Tempest was and I absolutely adore Overheat mechanics, PRIME LIGHT BEAM and Nuclear Physics.

[Adamantium.3682]

It is pretty much pure damage, however... there is some survive ability there you just have to get creative.

• Coolant Blast can give Frost Aura, that's -10% incoming damage
• Hard Light Arena
• Corona Burst for Barrier
• Sword allows you to take shield offhand
• Cooling down heals you
• Photon Wall blocks
• Spectrum Shield

[Dahkeus.8243]

We're still in the first few days of the expac, so people are playing the vast majority of their time in open world, where a pure selfish DPS build like this can be very fun.

However, it's very possible that this will end up being like Power Reaper was at HoT's release. People loved that elite spec at launch, but quickly found out that the DPS was sub-par and there was no utility to justify bringing it (speaking only for power GS here). Unless Holosmith can do some really significant DPS, we might end up in the same situation with a very fun spec that no one wants to bring to a group. Considering that both Firebrand and Weaver have both seen benchmarks over 45k DPS and Holosmith is already being nerfed for PvP-sake while suffering scaling issues due to transform mechanics, things aren't looking great from an output perspective.

But for open world, at least it's fun as hell. =P

[RabbitUp.8294]

It's flashy, it's fast, and it does damage. Many of the people that praised Holosmith were not engi mains, and the spec is impressive on a surface level.

It's also the closest engi has got to a kit-less or kit-light build.

[Khubbo.9067]

used to main engi back in first year of gw2. grenade kit felt too exhausting after i did world completion. im really loving this holosmith build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdUQJAsenUUBFJjVIDmIDcJjlBD7LAseePhHg0RgpfHOETiA-jBSBQB5TLwDeAAoUJIlU/ZVKPAwJA4KKxwjOASBEoyI-e

[LUST.2305]

For PvP...

It's very glass cannon if you want to do damage... And if you spec to be more "bunker"/"supportive" with it, you are better off just using Scrapper. Pretty much have to stick with your team to get things done rather than running around solo and getting caught. You'll be using your mobility skills like Rifle 5/Rocket Boots instead of Sword/Shield, Sword/Pistol because those are incredibly weak in comparison.

Imo...You can make it work like Chaithh does and it's definitely a change of pace...but there's a lot of risk to it that is hit-or-miss for solo-queuing. Lot less professions you can 1v1 compared to Scrapper, most HoT specs beat it, it can beat some PoF specs.

When everything gets situated, I think Holosmith would be due for changes (hopefully with big improvements to sword and shield) and utility skills. Just way to many things other classes have to pretty much block/reflect any of the big potential bursts. It might be good to fill a missing team role later on?

[Zeghart.9841]

For a lot of people it can be summarized with one word: lightsaber.

Aside from that though, it's just an incredibly fun to play spec that lets Engis do fast power damage and give less prominence to kits, which is a nice change of pace.

[Daharahj.1325]

The aesthetics are out of this world.

[Nephalem.8921]

Holosmith is not a damage build though. It is a glorified might stacking build for solo play.It does flashy stuff like power reaper but doesn't really have high sustained damage.Numbers look high in solo play because of the easy 20+ might stacks but it is just weak in a group setting.Since pvp already has his own elite spec it shouldnt be balanced around pvp and buffed in pve first. If nothing changes engi will be the pof necro with all the new power creep. Why take an engi with 34k dps on optimal rotations when guard / ele do much more with easier rotations?

Scourge can reach 38k and maybe more. Engi is in terms of dps 2nd last now.

All holosmith traitline adds is some damage to power engi and good self might stacking.

No you are not missing something. Holosmith is a balance failure.They need to get rid of the easy might stack and add some actual damage on the forge skills.Guard and weaver are so overtuned that even pinpoint distribution won't save our raid spots.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@Nephalem.8921 said:Holosmith is not a damage build though. It is a glorified might stacking build for solo play.It does flashy stuff like power reaper but doesn't really have high sustained damage.Numbers look high in solo play because of the easy 20+ might stacks but it is just weak in a group setting.Since pvp already has his own elite spec it shouldnt be balanced around pvp and buffed in pve first. If nothing changes engi will be the pof necro with all the new power creep. Why take an engi with 34k dps on optimal rotations when guard / ele do much more with easier rotations?

Scourge can reach 38k and maybe more. Engi is in terms of dps 2nd last now.

All holosmith traitline adds is some damage to power engi and good self might stacking.

No you are not missing something. Holosmith is a balance failure.They need to get rid of the easy might stack and add some actual damage on the forge skills.Guard and weaver are so overtuned that even pinpoint distribution won't save our raid spots.

So...where are you getting your benchmarks from? Do you think that someone has found the optimal holo build/rotation already?

Or are you just basing your comparison off of the massively broken weaver/firebrand 45-50k benchmarks? If so, by that logic, everything is a failure except for 2 builds.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Holosmith is not a damage build though. It is a glorified might stacking build for solo play.It does flashy stuff like power reaper but doesn't really have high sustained damage.Numbers look high in solo play because of the easy 20+ might stacks but it is just weak in a group setting.Since pvp already has his own elite spec it shouldnt be balanced around pvp and buffed in pve first. If nothing changes engi will be the pof necro with all the new power creep. Why take an engi with 34k dps on optimal rotations when guard / ele do much more with easier rotations?

Scourge can reach 38k and maybe more. Engi is in terms of dps 2nd last now.

All holosmith traitline adds is some damage to power engi and good self might stacking.

No you are not missing something. Holosmith is a balance failure.They need to get rid of the easy might stack and add some actual damage on the forge skills.Guard and weaver are so overtuned that even pinpoint distribution won't save our raid spots.

So...where are you getting your benchmarks from? Do you think that someone has found the optimal holo build/rotation already?

Or are you just basing your comparison off of the massively broken weaver/firebrand 45-50k benchmarks? If so, by that logic, everything is a failure except for 2 builds.

My own benchmarks and benchmarks of friends. Forge has a kit lock so hard rotations aren't really possible. I compare holo to all builds i know and not only pof ones.I would be glad if you could prove me wrong. Show me a realistic holo build with 35k+ dps. Soulbeast, Berserker, Daredevil do all more damage than old engi. You don't even need broken pof specs to beat holo.

[beaumo.2031]

I'm loving it, looks great and plays great but then I only do open world questing

[Bish.8627]

For PVE solo its nice, for roaming WVW and small scale zerg its also nice!

And beyond that to me it doesn't matter. Raiding is poop.

[Vladish.3940]

I like it because it's a pleasant alternative to tool belt BS (I hate all the tool belts), given turrets have been nerfed to ground, and aren't a viable option aside from personal enjoyment of simply using them.

[MikeL.8260]

Let's not forget the fun aspect of playing a game. It's simply a fun spec to play, doesn't need to be perfect in every aspect, all it needs is to be fun to play.Fairly simple

[Lamps.8014]

PRIME LIGHT BEAM

[Ardid.7203]

@Toolbox.9375 said:Holosmith seems to have been incredibly well-received. People appear to be very excited for it.

But... Why?

From what I can tell, Holosmith is basically just-... Damage. A lot of damage, but still just damage. Nothing really all that interesting, not quirky new tools to play around with. The only thing I'm finding entertaining, personally, is the Superspeed pad from the traited Forge skill 2, as it gives me a tremendous impact on escort events.

Are there aspects to the elite that I'm not noticing? Because more melee damage hardly interests me. :(

Frontal, direct, insta-gratificating damage. The same reason people love berserker armor, even those who aren't capable of using it without continuously dying.

[Vladish.3940]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Toolbox.9375 said:Holosmith seems to have been incredibly well-received. People appear to be very excited for it.

But... Why?

From what I can tell, Holosmith is basically just-... Damage. A lot of damage, but still just damage. Nothing really all that interesting, not quirky new tools to play around with. The only thing I'm finding entertaining, personally, is the Superspeed pad from the traited Forge skill 2, as it gives me a tremendous impact on escort events.

Are there aspects to the elite that I'm not noticing? Because more melee damage hardly interests me. :(

Frontal, direct, insta-gratificating damage. The same reason people love berserker armor, even those who aren't capable of using it without continuously dying.

It could also be because some people are physically unable to play engineer spamming the tool kits. The turret nerfs pretty much left these people out of any group plays. Holo at least allows these people to have a glimmer of hope that they will be able to see content other than story for a change, without being shunned and insulted for their disability. It's not always about instant gratification, but about the lack of options.

[Ardid.7203]

I was talking about the majority of the players, Vladish.

I'm sure there are a lot of people with physical problems which make them unable to play the "normal" engie, but I really doubt they make enough numbers or have such a dedicated preference for Holosmith to make the spec "incredibly well-received" on their own.

IMO, while the pure damage, un-piano style of the Holosmith is going to attract a few players that like engie but can't usually play it, it will first and foremost attract pure DPS fanatics, which in my experience are a lot of people.

So yes, for some it is about lack of options. I think For the many is still about just instant killing.

[Vladish.3940]

I agree, I just wanted to make sure that it's not going to be swept under the rug as a stereotype used by only one kind of people. After you clarified what you meant, I fully agree.

[coglin.1496]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Holosmith is not a damage build though. It is a glorified might stacking build for solo play.It does flashy stuff like power reaper but doesn't really have high sustained damage.Numbers look high in solo play because of the easy 20+ might stacks but it is just weak in a group setting.Since pvp already has his own elite spec it shouldnt be balanced around pvp and buffed in pve first. If nothing changes engi will be the pof necro with all the new power creep. Why take an engi with 34k dps on optimal rotations when guard / ele do much more with easier rotations?

Scourge can reach 38k and maybe more. Engi is in terms of dps 2nd last now.

All holosmith traitline adds is some damage to power engi and good self might stacking.

No you are not missing something. Holosmith is a balance failure.They need to get rid of the easy might stack and add some actual damage on the forge skills.Guard and weaver are so overtuned that even pinpoint distribution won't save our raid spots.

So...where are you getting your benchmarks from? Do you think that someone has found the optimal holo build/rotation already?

Or are you just basing your comparison off of the massively broken weaver/firebrand 45-50k benchmarks? If so, by that logic, everything is a failure except for 2 builds.

My own benchmarks and benchmarks of friends.

Could you link some video evidence of your benchmark achievement as well as videos of your friends? It would aid the discussion and offer some evidence for your claims.

[Oblue.2135]

@Nephalem.8921 said:Holosmith is not a damage build though. It is a glorified might stacking build for solo play.It does flashy stuff like power reaper but doesn't really have high sustained damage.Numbers look high in solo play because of the easy 20+ might stacks but it is just weak in a group setting.Since pvp already has his own elite spec it shouldnt be balanced around pvp and buffed in pve first. If nothing changes engi will be the pof necro with all the new power creep. Why take an engi with 34k dps on optimal rotations when guard / ele do much more with easier rotations?

Scourge can reach 38k and maybe more. Engi is in terms of dps 2nd last now.

All holosmith traitline adds is some damage to power engi and good self might stacking.

No you are not missing something. Holosmith is a balance failure.They need to get rid of the easy might stack and add some actual damage on the forge skills.Guard and weaver are so overtuned that even pinpoint distribution won't save our raid spots.

Hi sorry I'm still a noob here, but I was hoping you could tell me how holosmith can get all those might stacks?

[Nephalem.8921]

@Oblue.2135 said:Hi sorry I'm still a noob here, but I was hoping you could tell me how holosmith can get all those might stacks?

Skill 3 in Photon Forge + the 150 Heat Grandmaster trait. You generate might while above 100 heat. You can use big'ol bomb in a fire field and / or shield 4 if you run sword shield for additional might.Really good for solo open world content, bad fractal or dungeon parties but thats it. You can also use aristocracy / strength runes on top of it but they are only worth it if you do a lot of solo content like solo dungeons/fracs.

[Nephalem.8921]

@coglin.1496 said:

Could you link some video evidence of your benchmark achievement as well as videos of your friends? It would aid the discussion and offer some evidence for your claims.

Not my test but thats Holosmith with unrealistic buffs and debuffs. You can subtract the buffs and end up at like 32k.

Is 10 debuffs realistic though? I would say 7-8 at best. Maybe 10 if you always run with a combination of necro, rev, condi engi and soulbeast.Modified ammunition creates high numers on world bosses but you will never see all conditions with relevant uptime on a raidboss or fractal encounter.For fractals even the 8 condis aren't realistic.