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Celestial


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Removal of amulets reduced the amount of viable builds. Less variety = players get bored more quickly = less players.

Arenanet keeps listening to the wrong audience. It makes NO sense to cater the elite audience as spvp as esports is dead. To become esports you need a large healthy player base of all skill levels, spectator friendly game mode and good community with frequent ( = daily) communication from the developers. GW2 lacks all those.

I want celestial and several other amulets back. "balancing" spvp by removal of amulets was NOT balancing at all. Right now most players choose between 3 amulets, so we don't have much variety either.

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@Sifu.9745 said:Funny, most Elementalists say that celestial stats on WvW and open world gear/weapons is a very bad choice, but in PvP celestial is op? Am i missing something? Why is celestial so op in PvP and why is it useless for any other content?

People were trying to say celestial was bad on anything other than ele two years ago in pvp when I would try to say everyone should run celestial for a better game/balance. Anet making a decision automatically means its the right decision and can be defended with what seems like troll posts stating a reason that could seem right to people that didnt ever select the amulet and try it but isnt. My might stacking necro/ranger seemed on par with other classes not op because everything you fight feels op anyways so we could nerf anything and tell people a random reason and have them believe it was a problem when the path they are taking for the games balance is a problem as a whole now the ranger is in a really bad spot axe/torch/shortbow used to be extremely viable with celestial, might stacking is probably one of the reasons anet gave.

I ran most amulets for about two years before even trying celestial and thought it would be bad for most things over straight condi or power which a lot of people may think if they never ran it. Once running it I played only celestial on all my builds. Now its back to rabid on ranger if I try the old build with axe/shortbow which was so inferior on necro/ranger its not even funny.

I saw no potential in this pvp until I started using celestial and then formed a group of 5 people and let them choose to run one of my celestial builds (my guard celestial was a healer/team spec not a bunker so that guard was mid I just let the guard I had stay at home use their solo support bunker builds). The support necro was a plague blindbot and heal/condi removal. Both running rune of mercy and revive trait. Then I had two roamers either celestial ranger, celestial necro, celestial ele, celestial pistol thief and sometimes something random beside one of those. Two roamers + two support went mid one actual bunker not support camped home. The teamfights 4v4s i got at mid started to feel like gw1. Once you take mid you let the two supports not bunkers camp mid and one bunker camp home. When they approach two supports together these two anyways if both roamers are assisting home they had enough time to finish assisting home then support the two supports at mid that supported eachother and didnt die. The game had a resemblence of balance if celestial was used properly.

A good amount of our games running my celestial builds were flawless with no deaths; maybe downed but not dead. It was pretty much most of the time good teamfights in mid with those supports.. Everything they have done since release has shown me everyone in berserker is whats intended. They want the whole game to feel like were playing old skyhammer instead of good gw1 style teamfights.

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@BadMed.3846 said:NO. We don't need Celestial crutches.

I feel like these people are warriors in berserker amulets that want their 100b to kill anything in one hit and if they cant kill through support solo its a problem to have a teamfight for once.

Why did you not like old skyhammer if you like zerker meta? Its the same fuckin thing no depth in the fight. Skyhammer just did it better because on limited dodge you can still escape whats pulling you.

Zerker and similar meta makes the game like playing halo snipers/pistol only except thats what you want if you play halo snipers not mmo pvp.

Its pretty clear the balance the majority calls a joke is how they want pvp to be with the updates I've seen since launch things only get worse not better because they want it worse. Conquest is the excuse.

How about they give us deathmatch 4v4 with separate balance and let you play the joke called balance. I've done enough conquest to never que for it again with seperate ques having a choice. Deathmatch will always be 4v4 honor fighting instead of random numbers. I don't ever want to have a 1v1 again this is supposed to be a team game.

Conquest is an excuse for a lot of bad like outnumbered fights being ok cheaping the enemy becomes skillful play and they balance for cheap shit to be meta.

They go for a really shitty gameplay due to conquest compared to gw1 just because you can doesnt mean you should. I dont even care if a deadeye oneshots because thats how they want meta in conquest. You don't feel bad for dieing.

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@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Would you extend the stats to include some of more recently added ones (i.e. Concentration, Expertise, etc.)?

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@mtpelion.4562 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Would you extend the stats to include some of more recently added ones (i.e. Concentration, Expertise, etc.)?

If we did that, we'd have to lower the stats a lot more.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Please god no. PvP in S1 should be a lesson never forgotten.

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@Jinks.2057 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Please god no. PvP in S1 should be a lesson never forgotten.

Personally I think cele with 350 to all stats would be strong enough to play on Holosmith and Tempest

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It was never problematic to begin with (neither was soldier's amulet), the main things that led to to it being wide spread was that that it you could make relatively well rounded builds with good sustain and fair damage at the cost of killing slower, being more boon reliant for damage and mitigation, and not being a full bunker.

People complained about these builds because you couldn't just instagib them, you actually needed to start paying attention and timing burst or interrupting heals to reliably kill people. The same complaints levied at bunker builds in the past.

Now we have a lack of bruiser builds and the game suffers from it because the combat flow currently stands at just dropping all your damage on people before they can do anything about it. Rather than actually paying any mind to what your opponent is doing.

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@Jinks.2057 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Please god no. PvP in S1 should be a lesson never forgotten.

pvp s1 was ruined because of double bunker mesmer with portal that denied cleave and quickness ressed everybody, not because of celestial amulet..

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@Sifu.9745 said:

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

I hope you are not going to nerf celestial pve/WvW gear/weapon stats as well?

Anything we decide to do, would just be to the PvP version.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Sifu.9745 said:

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

I hope you are not going to nerf celestial pve/WvW gear/weapon stats as well?

Anything we decide to do, would just be to the PvP version.

i think 500 allstat is fine for the start. can always reduce it if it's too much. as for a 2nd amulet with 350 allstats including boon% and condi% im not too sure... can't hurt to have options but idk if that amulet would be any good.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

My brain had an orgasm....

Please consider adding other amulets too, there's been a lot changes to the game since you removed most of them.

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@Numot.3965 said:It was never problematic to begin with (neither was soldier's amulet), the main things that led to to it being wide spread was that that it you could make relatively well rounded builds with good sustain and fair damage at the cost of killing slower, being more boon reliant for damage and mitigation, and not being a full bunker.

People complained about these builds because you couldn't just instagib them, you actually needed to start paying attention and timing burst or interrupting heals to reliably kill people. The same complaints levied at bunker builds in the past.

Now we have a lack of bruiser builds and the game suffers from it because the combat flow currently stands at just dropping all your damage on people before they can do anything about it. Rather than actually paying any mind to what your opponent is doing.

I'm a fan of soldiers too this one lacks crit here so it doesnt make you too strong offensively. Your second point is a good one...

@Ario.8964 said:Here's a novel idea: Bring cele back and then nerf the stuff that made it so op to begin with (I.E. might stacking, too many invulns, too many passives, etc.) certain classes have been designed to need access to all stats (ele)

Ele is a prime example but people kinda seem to skip over ranger on this one shortbow/axe/torch are all screaming celestial. Rangers were complaining about viability at the time as well... Pre-hot release I noticed when I started using celestial on everything noone ran shortbow/torch ranger weapons because they seemed so weak... celestial was the key here and it made that subpar weaponset very viable. So does necro weaponsets (axe is backed with a scepter on a lot of builds). I was playing ranger as if it were almost my main at one point (before celestial I did play a lot of longbow but I really prefer the shortbow/axe/torch) and I was playing stuff people didnt see as viable because they didnt try it with celestial. Season one started after I quit so I guess people must have been catching on more and more to celestial by then unless it was only eles running it still. I feel like people complaining about it on ele ruined it for all classes.

@KaporHabakuk.6219 said:wasnt everyone playing celestial during celestial era?dont know how that helped build diversity :),well maybe except thief and mesmer,thou if they make cele statvise same as any other gear might be fine,balance wise.in before cele had like 1/3rd more stats as any other gear,which was pretty unfortunate.

Pistol thief benefits from celestial over anything else. Right now marauders has more stats then zerkers so does paladins and some of the newer ones and they arent a problem. It helps diversity because a lot of things being used now on power without it are still viable longbow ranger might not change to celestial while shortbow ranger becomes viable. D/p thief may not run celestial while pistols become more viable. Not going to go into necro too much it should have some reaper builds that may not use celestial while most others will.

What amulet you choose isnt so much diversity the amount of builds that are able to be played regardless of amulet is diversity.

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@Numot.3965 said:It was never problematic to begin with (neither was soldier's amulet), the main things that led to to it being wide spread was that that it you could make relatively well rounded builds with good sustain and fair damage at the cost of killing slower, being more boon reliant for damage and mitigation, and not being a full bunker.

People complained about these builds because you couldn't just instagib them, you actually needed to start paying attention and timing burst or interrupting heals to reliably kill people. The same complaints levied at bunker builds in the past.

Now we have a lack of bruiser builds and the game suffers from it because the combat flow currently stands at just dropping all your damage on people before they can do anything about it. Rather than actually paying any mind to what your opponent is doing.

I think you're downplaying just how long these builds could last, to the point that it makes me wonder whether you ever played in season 1 of PvP Leagues.

Games regularly timed out with hundreds of points short of the 500 limit because nothing ever died and therefore nothing was ever capped. Pro League matches were at their very worst in history during a time when spectator numbers peaked (this was probably the beginning of the end for the esports events).

Your other statements on the pace of fights aside (I do think bruiser builds have suffered needlessly as of recent), it is really difficult to exaggerate just how bad season 1 meta was for the pvp scene. To downplay it is kind of irresponsible imo. If you still think cele and soldier weren't problematic.

That all said, I believe the balance environment is much different now and it could allow a nerfed cele amulet to reemerge without as many problems that doomsayers would have you believe. I say this as an active PvPer since well before HoT. Scourge could be pretty terrifying with cele though, but it already is now and so that is a separate issue imo.

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reflhex,there is big diiference having 3k stats and 4k stats,that was the difference between 3stat amulet and cele.1k more stats,or 33% more stats.Mara compared to zerker is like 200-300 more stats?also when was it last time you saw a berzerker amulet in pvp instead of marauder,and guess why.... :).In some cases u traded like less than 10% dmg for like 30-50% more hp.I dont call that balance,but whatever.I simply dont understand why some stat combination have more raw stats than others,while already some combinations are supbar,zerker to mara is a nice example.PvP wise ofc.

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@KaporHabakuk.6219 said:reflhex,there is big diiference having 3k stats and 4k stats,that was the difference between 3stat amulet and cele.1k more stats,or 33% more stats.Mara compared to zerker is like 200-300 more stats?also when was it last time you saw a berzerker amulet in pvp instead of marauder,and guess why.... :).In some cases u traded like less than 10% dmg for like 30-50% more hp.I dont call that balance,but whatever.I simply dont understand why some stat combination have more raw stats than others,while already some combinations are supbar,zerker to mara is a nice example.PvP wise ofc.

The stats are so spread though on celestial when compared to marauder. and its marauder over zerker just due to vitality not necessarily stat advantage.

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