Anet would get much more money from me....

[Aodlop.1907]

If outfits items were sold individually

[sitarskee.5738]

But they won't so you can save up for a great vacation abroad.

[nottsgman.8206]

@Aodlop.1907 said:If outfits items were sold individually

wait, what? outfits are sold individually.

do you mean as individual armor skins where each part could be used instead of the whole thing?

[Sylent.3165]

@nottsgman.8206 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:If outfits items were sold individually

wait, what? outfits are sold individually.

do you mean as individual armor skins where each part could be used instead of the whole thing?

I assume they meant armor sets not outfits.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Sylent.3165 said:

@nottsgman.8206 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:If outfits items were sold individually

wait, what? outfits are sold individually.

do you mean as individual armor skins where each part could be used instead of the whole thing?

I assume they meant armor sets not outfits.

Everyone wants thatBut anet has already told us hundreds of times that creating a set of armor, piece by piece, requires so much effort its reserved for expansion content.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Armor is one of the most expensive items they make. Making statless onesies (outfits) is much cheaper and more profitable to sell as they can both make outfits faster and make more profit from each outfit sold. If they were to switch to making armor instead of outfits they would be losing money even if more people bought them.

[Ashen.2907]

OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Sylent.3165 said:

@nottsgman.8206 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:If outfits items were sold individually

wait, what? outfits are sold individually.

do you mean as individual armor skins where each part could be used instead of the whole thing?

I assume they meant armor sets not outfits.

Everyone wants thatBut anet has already told us

hundreds of times

that creating a set of armor, piece by piece, requires so much effort its reserved for expansion content.

They actually told it once or twice, the rest is other people parroting.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

..Labor....

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

..Labor....

So are outfits. I would like to see numbers you used to create new suggested prices in your previous post.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

..Labor....

So are outfits. I would like to see numbers you used to create new suggested prices in your previous post.

My apologies, those numbers were not meant to be taken literally (hence. The rather large range listed) but rather as an attempt to determine how much more the OP would be willing to spend.

Ultimately the only people with access to all of the numbers have chosen to forgo armor set development for the gemstore in favor of outfits.

Currently the price for a single armor piece, one sixth of a set, in the gemstore is 400 gems. This is for the most universal, in terms of fitting each race and gender, pieces.

And yes, of course, outfits have a labor cost...a fraction of that associated with armor according to ANet.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

Well...

The quote I remember from ANet was that it takes 9 months (.75 of a year) to make an armor set. Assuming: only one graphic artist works on it; average salary in the US for a graphic artist (~$45k); and the average cost of employment in the US (x1.25 to x1.4, so 1.32) ...

.75 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $44,550. The break even point would be (44,550 / $10) or 4,455 units.

To speculate, let's say an outfit takes 2 months (.167 of a year), with similar personnel and the same salary.

.167 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $9,919.80. The break even point would be (9919.80 / $8.75) or ~1,134 units.

For an armor set to have that break-even point, it would have to sell at ($44,550 / 1134 or $39.29) almost 4000 gems.

The speculative figure on outfits could be quite off, depending on the actual time taken to produce one. Given the frequency of their appearance, though, I suspect it's nowhere near 9 months.

Neither the armor figures nor the speculative outfit figures take into account the overhead attached to the office space the graphic artist is occupying. Neither do they take into account the costs if other personnel get involved for any significant amount of time, or the opportunity cost (what else could that graphic artist have been working on?).

[Ashen.2907]

The average salary in the greater Seattle area might be closer to 60k.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

Well...

The quote I remember from ANet was that it takes 9 months (.75 of a year) to make an armor set. Assuming: only one graphic artist works on it; average salary in the US for a graphic artist (~$45k); and the average cost of employment in the US (x1.25 to x1.4, so 1.32) ...

.75 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $44,550. The break even point would be (44,550 / $10) or 4,455 units.

To speculate, let's say an outfit takes 2 months (.167 of a year), with similar personnel and the same salary.

.167 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $9,919.80. The break even point would be (9919.80 / $8.75) or ~1,134 units.

For an armor set to have that break-even point, it would have to sell at ($44,550 / 1134 or $39.29) almost 4000 gems.

The speculative figure on outfits could be quite off, depending on the actual time taken to produce one. Given the frequency of their appearance, though, I suspect it's nowhere near 9 months.

Neither the armor figures nor the speculative outfit figures take into account the overhead attached to the office space the graphic artist is occupying. Neither do they take into account the costs if other personnel get involved for any significant amount of time, or the opportunity cost (what else could that graphic artist have been working on?).

Except what they say can't be true because they sell previous armor sets for 800 gems. If they sold it below cost production, it makes them responsible for creating unjustified expenses for the company. They also sell you armor sets in bundle with expansions which would make it even further ridiculous in terms of managment. Not to add the case of legendary armor which took them 2 years, which they charge nothing for.

So in the end, you can't use work hours as measure of armor creation costs because it would destroy their company finances in a year.

Oh and btw, you make armor once, and sell thousands of copies without any additional costs.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

..Labor....

So are outfits. I would like to see numbers you used to create new suggested prices in your previous post.

My apologies, those numbers were not meant to be taken literally (hence. The rather large range listed) but rather as an attempt to determine how much more the OP would be willing to spend.

Ultimately the only people with access to all of the numbers have chosen to forgo armor set development for the gemstore in favor of outfits.

Currently the price for a single armor piece, one sixth of a set, in the gemstore is 400 gems. This is for the most universal, in terms of fitting each race and gender, pieces.

And yes, of course, outfits have a labor cost...a fraction of that associated with armor according to ANet.

If OP spends nothing on outfits currently, even if he spent 1 gem per armor set it's more than now :)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If Armor Sets were great money-makers, I'd guess they would release them once a week, or so. Doesn't seem to be the case. I'm guessing either hiring enough artists, et al, costs more than they would generate, or the artists, et al, work on other projects like the free Living World/Current Events/other content we receive.

Just a guess, of course.

[Blocki.4931]

Armor sets are for one class only though. Outfits are for everyone, armor sets are either light, medium or heavy.

That's perhaps the sole reason they exist. To be able to use a style on any c haracter regardless of class.

[Karaha.3290]

On the one hand we have people complaining that we can get outfits, mount- and gliderskins only via gemshop and not ingame.And now, on the other hand, we have people complaining that we can get armors only ingame and not via gemshop?Confusing.

Oh, and on the third hand Anet still sell armor pieces via gemshop. Not full sets but you can find there everything except for pants and chestarmor.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Sylent.3165 said:

@nottsgman.8206 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:If outfits items were sold individually

wait, what? outfits are sold individually.

do you mean as individual armor skins where each part could be used instead of the whole thing?

I assume they meant armor sets not outfits.

Everyone wants thatBut anet has already told us

hundreds of times

that creating a set of armor, piece by piece, requires so much effort its reserved for expansion content.

They actually told it once or twice, the rest is other people parroting.

It stands to reason that if armor is one of the most expensive things they make in game and takes months to make then the profit from selling armor is appreciably less than the profit from sellling outfits. Unless they increase the price to get the same profit to cover both the increased costs to make, the increased time to make and the loss of profits from having fewer armors per unit of time than outfits then they are better off selling outfits and keeping armor as expansion rewards.

TLDR. Armor is less profitable than outfits because of higher costs, longer production time and fewer units to sell per period of time

Edit: grammar

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

..Labor....

So are outfits. I would like to see numbers you used to create new suggested prices in your previous post.

My apologies, those numbers were not meant to be taken literally (hence. The rather large range listed) but rather as an attempt to determine how much more the OP would be willing to spend.

Ultimately the only people with access to all of the numbers have chosen to forgo armor set development for the gemstore in favor of outfits.

Currently the price for a single armor piece, one sixth of a set, in the gemstore is 400 gems. This is for the most universal, in terms of fitting each race and gender, pieces.

And yes, of course, outfits have a labor cost...a fraction of that associated with armor according to ANet.

If OP spends nothing on outfits currently, even if he spent 1 gem per armor set it's more than now :)

LOL.

By that theory Ferrari should be selling their cars for a buck. I'd buy a dozen.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:OP, would you spend 7000 to 14000 gems per armor set? How many people do you thinl would?

Armor sets were never that expensive.

Indeed, and so their production was discontinued except for those included in expansions. The OP seems to be claiming that he would spend more money if outfits were armor sets. Would he be willing to spend enough more to offset the increased production costs?

What are production costs for armors?

Well...

The quote I remember from ANet was that it takes 9 months (.75 of a year) to make an armor set. Assuming: only one graphic artist works on it; average salary in the US for a graphic artist (~$45k); and the average cost of employment in the US (x1.25 to x1.4, so 1.32) ...

.75 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $44,550. The break even point would be (44,550 / $10) or 4,455 units.

To speculate, let's say an outfit takes 2 months (.167 of a year), with similar personnel and the same salary.

.167 x (45,000 * 1.32) = $9,919.80. The break even point would be (9919.80 / $8.75) or ~1,134 units.

For an armor set to have that break-even point, it would have to sell at ($44,550 / 1134 or $39.29) almost 4000 gems.

The speculative figure on outfits could be quite off, depending on the actual time taken to produce one. Given the frequency of their appearance, though, I suspect it's nowhere near 9 months.

Neither the armor figures nor the speculative outfit figures take into account the overhead attached to the office space the graphic artist is occupying. Neither do they take into account the costs if other personnel get involved for any significant amount of time, or the opportunity cost (what else could that graphic artist have been working on?).

Except what they say can't be true because they sell previous armor sets for 800 gems. If they sold it below cost production, it makes them responsible for creating unjustified expenses for the company. They also sell you armor sets in bundle with expansions which would make it even further ridiculous in terms of managment. Not to add the case of legendary armor which took them 2 years, which they charge nothing for.

So in the end, you can't use work hours as measure of armor creation costs because it would destroy their company finances in a year.

Oh and btw, you make armor once, and sell thousands of copies without any additional costs.

• Some of the gem store armor sets were made pre-launch, along with all the existing crafted, Karma and dungeon sets. Selling those was recouping the expense needed to create them. I suspect ANet did the same with at least some of the mount skins in the initial mount license -- selling out-takes on the initial mount design process with color channels added.
• The gem store sets that return were made earlier. The only new gem store armor since the ANet announcement that armor sets would be in-game rewards have been pieces (not sets) like Foefire.
• Any pre-existing sets -- as you point out -- sold now incur no overhead costs. Making some money by selling products that have already been produced is a sound business strategy. That does not mean that producing more such products now would be.
• Who knows how many armor sets sold back when the game was young? They may well have been reaching their break-even point with sales to spare quite early in the sales process. As the game ages, that may no longer be the case.
• One way for businesses to make money is to sell more units. Failing that, they charge more, reduce costs, or both. In the MOB statement about mount skins, he stated that cosmetics at low price points are producing insufficient revenue to fund the game. That strongly suggests that volume sales are not cutting it at this point.
• Expansions cost players money. That money pays for the production of the XPac, and gives the company a shot in the financial arm.
• MMO's, for better or worse, are games in which players demand pixelated rewards for their "efforts" in game. Without such rewards, they leave, bad-mouth the game, or both. Neither is desirable from the developer's standpoint. Producing armor sets in GW2 is a way to feed that demand. As such, doing so is not a waste of development resources. If the XPac revenue is not offsetting the cost of armor set reward development, then ANet is using those sets as a loss leader.

Still, I expect you prefer to believe that ANet is lying. Companies, after all, lie all the time, right? Usually, though, they do it to further some aim. So, if they are in this case, what's in it for them? If it's all about a cash grab, and if armor sets would generate tons of cash, why are they not making and selling them?

[DarcShriek.5829]

@Ashen.2907 said:The average salary in the greater Seattle area might be closer to 60k.

It's higher. Much higher. Minimum wage is 30k.