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No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

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@Glider.5792 said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

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@Sublimatio.6981 said:no thanks, i would rather have the debuffs removed completely and the fractal spicifc boss fights/mobs/encounters change with the tier.

what you ask for in this thread is to replace bad with extremely bad, as Glider said.

actually it's better experience than having last laugh, poison everywhere and random aoes appear on players.

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@Draco.9480 said:

@Glider.5792 said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

Now that i think about it again, for experienced groups (non pugs), if there was no downstate but the bad instabilities would also be removed (social awkwardness, last laugh, flux bomb) these groups would prolly have an even easier time since most causes of death are bad flux bomb timings, stacking (when social awkwardness) and tons of mobs exploding in the burst.When it would come to pugging though, this would be a clown fiesta, since a fail from one pug would result in his death and due to that most likely others also.Killproof and stuff would most likely get even more out of hand, since having uncapable people would become a drag/deathwish.

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@Glider.5792 said:

@Glider.5792 said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

Now that i think about it again, for experienced groups (non pugs), if there was no downstate but the bad instabilities would also be removed (social awkwardness, last laugh, flux bomb) these groups would prolly have an even easier time since most causes of death are bad flux bomb timings, stacking (when social awkwardness) and tons of mobs exploding in the burst.When it would come to pugging though, this would be a clown fiesta, since a fail from one pug would result in his death and due to that most likely others also.Killproof and stuff would most likely get even more out of hand, since having uncapable people would become a drag/deathwish.

punish harder the bad players while the pros won't be RNGed by the system cuz reasons and lead to awkwards fails that aren't suppose to happen.

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@Draco.9480 said:

remove all other debuffs like last laugh, trail toxic and all those annoying crap and just improve boss mechanics to be harder. don't touch twilight oasis, nightmare nor shattered observatory at all about mechanics they're nice like this.

This is honestly the only part of this i agree with here. The other suggestions make fractals even more of a pain to do with pugs, and would turn them into mini raids which is no good for them as a whole.

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@Dante.1763 said:

remove all other debuffs like last laugh, trail toxic and all those annoying crap and just improve boss mechanics to be harder. don't touch twilight oasis, nightmare nor shattered observatory at all about mechanics they're nice like this.

This is honestly the only part of this i agree with here. The other suggestions make fractals even more of a pain to do with pugs, and would turn them into mini raids which is no good for them as a whole.

god players won't feed, bad players will feed and make it worst. it's a correct way to punish bad players and not punish people that actually play good. sometimes RNG of debuffs wipes good players for no reason.

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@Draco.9480 said:

remove all other debuffs like last laugh, trail toxic and all those annoying crap and just improve boss mechanics to be harder. don't touch twilight oasis, nightmare nor shattered observatory at all about mechanics they're nice like this.

This is honestly the only part of this i agree with here. The other suggestions make fractals even more of a pain to do with pugs, and would turn them into mini raids which is no good for them as a whole.

god players won't feed, bad players will feed and make it worst. it's a correct way to punish bad players and not punish people that actually play good. sometimes RNG of debuffs wipes good players for no reason.

Sorry but no. Fractals are not and do not need to be raids. Not everyone is a god tier player, and even relatively good players can struggle with tier 4s. Goodness knows i do for some of them. Making it worse is not the answer, having the downstate is one of the nicest things about GW2 when it comes to content like this, and i see no goodside to removing it.

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@Dante.1763 said:

remove all other debuffs like last laugh, trail toxic and all those annoying crap and just improve boss mechanics to be harder. don't touch twilight oasis, nightmare nor shattered observatory at all about mechanics they're nice like this.

This is honestly the only part of this i agree with here. The other suggestions make fractals even more of a pain to do with pugs, and would turn them into mini raids which is no good for them as a whole.

god players won't feed, bad players will feed and make it worst. it's a correct way to punish bad players and not punish people that actually play good. sometimes RNG of debuffs wipes good players for no reason.

Sorry but no. Fractals are not and do not need to be raids. Not everyone is a god tier player, and even relatively good players can struggle with tier 4s. Goodness knows i do for some of them. Making it worse is not the answer, having the downstate is one of the nicest things about GW2 when it comes to content like this, and i see no goodside to removing it.

so you're one of those leechers who won't react to real mechanics and prefers RNG debuffs. fractals aren't raids. 5 man content was never a raid in any game. raids are 10+ players with more serious bosses and more health. i never suggest to make fractals into raids. i want to improve the fractals to be better for the good players and so not good players will improve and not do the same mistakes. what's so good in downstate if people can ress you all the time without consenquences?? anet said fractals are stepping stones to raids. in WoW mythic dungeons are stepping stones for raids. fractals are basically short dungeons in a random rotation.

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@Draco.9480 said:

@Glider.5792 said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

Pretty narrow thinking. Not every class has access to the same amount of defensive utility, even more so if built for efficency. So your suggestion would more often than nto punish those trying to bring their best to the table for others failing at their job or the entire party for -sometimes even minor- mistakes. Not to mention the quite likely increase in class-racism. No thanks.

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@"Draco.9480" said:1-25 no debuffs26-50, fractal avenger, get agony stack for 3 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 20s51-75 fractal vindicators, get agony stack for 4 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 12s76-100 no down state (die if hit 0 hp), get agony stack for 5 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 7s

99 and 100 will have set of 3 boons every 20s, might, protection and fury.

I know a lot of you don't remember this, but there was a time when the only thing you needed for a good fractal run was a single ps warrior running fgj+2 banners, the rest could just be dps builds, and the group would be fairly good. It made grouping so much easier. Now you need a chrono for boon strips + boon share, druid for healing stupid almost passive damage like toxic trails and social awkwardness + might/fury, and bs warrior for banners, its awful.

In fact, didn't this game use to advertise minimizing "waiting to play".....

"We don't like sitting around spamming 'looking for healer' to global chat," Peters said. "That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun."https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/guild-wars-2-has-no-healers-or-tanks

As long as I'm ranting, didn't gw2 once strive to be an mmo where you didn't hate having other players around you?

"We really wanted every player, when they see another player, to be happy to see that other player," Cartwright said."We ask, 'Is there any reason why I dislike another player?' And if we ever have that feeling, we get in a room and we talk about it."https://kotaku.com/5945347/guild-wars-2s-subtle-mind-control-makes-me-actually-like-other-people

So no thx op, no to any of that cancer. How about we completely get rid of social awkwardness and agony, and if we want to make bosses more difficult, we give them single well telegraphed attacks that one shot players, or the players will dodge using the active defense system this game was built around, instead of continuing to add small sustained damage that encourages healers. Healers are great in raids, but that is where the entire concept should have stayed.

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What about no? There are a lot of different players in this game that paid for it and have the right to have fun the way they want. You elitist have your CM and raids with hyper meta strats so you actually have content where you can tryhard how much you want. If you don't want to deal with casuals don't play with them.There are people out there that don't have the time to improve so much in a game or people that just want to relax an hour after working the whole day and don't want to commit so much brain power to the game. They have the right to have content for them too. Just another selfish request from an elitist.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"Draco.9480" said:1-25 no debuffs26-50, fractal avenger, get agony stack for 3 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 20s51-75 fractal vindicators, get agony stack for 4 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 12s76-100 no down state (die if hit 0 hp), get agony stack for 5 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 7s

99 and 100 will have set of 3 boons every 20s, might, protection and fury.

I know a lot of you don't remember this, but there was a time when the only thing you needed for a good fractal run was a single ps warrior running fgj+2 banners, the rest could just be dps builds, and the group would be fairly good. It made grouping so much easier. Now you need a chrono for boon strips + boon share, druid for healing stupid almost passive damage like toxic trails and social awkwardness + might/fury, and bs warrior for banners, its awful.

In fact, didn't this game use to advertise minimizing "waiting to play".....

"We don't like sitting around spamming 'looking for healer' to global chat," Peters said. "That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun."

As long as I'm ranting, didn't gw2 once strive to be an mmo where you didn't hate having other players around you?

"We really wanted every player, when they see another player, to be happy to see that other player," Cartwright said."We ask, 'Is there any reason why I dislike another player?' And if we ever have that feeling, we get in a room and we talk about it."

So no thx op, no to any of that cancer. How about we completely get rid of social awkwardness and agony, and if we want to make bosses more difficult, we give them single well telegraphed attacks that one shot players, or the players will dodge using the active defense system this game was built around, instead of continuing to add small sustained damage that encourages healers. Healers are great in raids, but that is where the entire concept should have stayed.

who said anything about healers? you could use deadeye as might source instead a druid. you just want to get rid of the debuffs without anything to give in exchange? telegraphed aoes? maybe learn boss animations?

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@"polvere.2805" said:What about no? There are a lot of different players in this game that paid for it and have the right to have fun the way they want. You elitist have your CM and raids with hyper meta strats so you actually have content where you can tryhard how much you want. If you don't want to deal with casuals don't play with them.There are people out there that don't have the time to improve so much in a game or people that just want to relax an hour after working the whole day and don't want to commit so much brain power to the game. They have the right to have content for them too. Just another selfish request from an elitist.

so you're one of those players who can't learn simple bosses cuz you work? that's not an excuse of playing poorly. you just want rewards without actually working for it.RNG just bothers true players but the content itself isn't really engaging. you just melt bosses quickly with weavers which makes no sense to me. chrono protects people with aegis and druid heals 'em. you can't really relax in end game. if you really think fractals demand such brain power then i'm really disappointed in you. there's nothing hard in in skipping, to stealth, to portal or basic rotation. i never wanted to play with "casuals". it's not about being a casual or hc. i'm a casual myself. i just don't want to play with people that drag down the team with low dps, lack of reaction, lack of knowledge of class, etc. 99 and 100 cm aren't really satisfying anymore, low level players do 'em easily.

why are you afraid of not having a down state at T4? does it mean you know you'll feed to ai?

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@Nash.2681 said:

@Glider.5792 said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

Pretty narrow thinking. Not every class has access to the same amount of defensive utility, even more so if built for efficency. So your suggestion would more often than nto punish those trying to bring their best to the table for others failing at their job or the entire party for -sometimes even minor- mistakes. Not to mention the quite likely increase in class-racism. No thanks.

well. you have guard and mesmers for aegis. don't want aegis? fine, dodge. what's the problem? but you play with chrono anyway that gives you quickness and alacrity in all fractals. so why do you care about class racism? unless you don't play with chronos in fracs at all on purpose. does it sound logical to gives aegis to everyone or epidemic to everyone? where's the uniqueness?

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@Draco.9480 said:

@"polvere.2805" said:What about no? There are a lot of different players in this game that paid for it and have the right to have fun the way they want. You elitist have your CM and raids with hyper meta strats so you actually have content where you can tryhard how much you want. If you don't want to deal with casuals don't play with them.There are people out there that don't have the time to improve so much in a game or people that just want to relax an hour after working the whole day and don't want to commit so much brain power to the game. They have the right to have content for them too. Just another selfish request from an elitist.

so you're one of those players who can't learn simple bosses cuz you work? that's not an excuse of playing poorly. you just want rewards without actually working for it.RNG just bothers true players but the content itself isn't really engaging. you just melt bosses quickly with weavers which makes no sense to me. chrono protects people with aegis and druid heals 'em. you can't really relax in end game. if you really think fractals demand such brain power then i'm really disappointed in you. there's nothing hard in in skipping, to stealth, to portal or basic rotation. i never wanted to play with "casuals". it's not about being a casual or hc. i'm a casual myself. i just don't want to play with people that drag down the team with low dps, lack of reaction, lack of knowledge of class, etc. 99 and 100 cm aren't really satisfying anymore, low level players do 'em easily.

why are you afraid of not having a down state at T4? does it mean you know you'll feed to ai?

I think you should probably think about what you're asking. Theirs no reason to make all instanced content difficult. The game should not cater only to youre type of player and probably would be better of. Try thinking about the betterment of the game and not just you're own experience

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@yann.1946 said:

@"polvere.2805" said:What about no? There are a lot of different players in this game that paid for it and have the right to have fun the way they want. You elitist have your CM and raids with hyper meta strats so you actually have content where you can tryhard how much you want. If you don't want to deal with casuals don't play with them.There are people out there that don't have the time to improve so much in a game or people that just want to relax an hour after working the whole day and don't want to commit so much brain power to the game. They have the right to have content for them too. Just another selfish request from an elitist.

so you're one of those players who can't learn simple bosses cuz you work? that's not an excuse of playing poorly. you just want rewards without actually working for it.RNG just bothers true players but the content itself isn't really engaging. you just melt bosses quickly with weavers which makes no sense to me. chrono protects people with aegis and druid heals 'em. you can't really relax in end game. if you really think fractals demand such brain power then i'm really disappointed in you. there's nothing hard in in skipping, to stealth, to portal or basic rotation. i never wanted to play with "casuals". it's not about being a casual or hc. i'm a casual myself. i just don't want to play with people that drag down the team with low dps, lack of reaction, lack of knowledge of class, etc. 99 and 100 cm aren't really satisfying anymore, low level players do 'em easily.

why are you afraid of not having a down state at T4? does it mean you know you'll feed to ai?

I think you should probably think about what you're asking. Theirs no reason to make all instanced content difficult. The game should not cater only to youre type of player and probably would be better of. Try thinking about the betterment of the game and not just you're own experience

Not aimed at you you Polvere, but Draco.stop assuming things about the people you are talking to, thats just a way to shut down any conversation, as youve decided to do with me in assuming that im a terribad.

I do know the boss mechanics, and i do decently well in raids, and the CM fractals. But guess what, not everyone has the best reaction speeds and they shouldnt be punished overly, no downstate for example for not being able to dodge an attack because their hand wont respond. Thankfully ANET has things like the downstate in the game, that allows players like myself, who do make mistakes from time to time a second chance, instead of having to deal with instant death and the cancer that is downed penaltys.

ON TOP OF THAT: not everyone runs meta groups even in t4s. Did a run today with a SB, myself(weaver), two warriors, and a guardian. No healer, no chrono, still did t4s and we didnt have to GG once. We ran into trouble on the final boss of 99, but thankfully still made it through. we wouldnt have, if we didnt have the opportunity to res someone before they died though, which there was some of that going on.

FURTHERMORE: When people DIE, and WIPE in a t4 fractal group, people get frustrated, and leave, they dont try and get better. That affects the game more negatively than someone going down once or twice during a run. This idea, as someone above called cancer, kinda agree with that, would effectively kill of pugs for non meta elitist groups because they would ONLY allow meta groups so they didnt have to worry about dying /period/.

In your opinion, this is a good idea, in mine, this idea is freaking awful and i hope it never gets implemented.

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@Draco.9480 said:

@"Glider.5792" said:No thank you! This is just replacing bad with extremly bad. In t4 you wouldnt even be able to survive anymore (death on downstate, + you cant even heal properly anymore since you have constant agony).This would just makes fractals more repetitive (since you would be doing every day same thing with same team comps) and honestly placed them into a worse state.Imo we just need more different and dificult instabilities, and possibly change them from weekly reset to daily.Have to agree with annoying instabilites though, but i dont think removal is needed, just make them unavailable in some specific fractals (like last laugh cannot appear in swampland and nightmare).

downstate is for players who fail and should be punished for failing. all the point is to play with aegis and not get hit nor get low on health.

Pretty narrow thinking. Not every class has access to the same amount of defensive utility, even more so if built for efficency. So your suggestion would more often than nto punish those trying to bring their best to the table for others failing at their job or the entire party for -sometimes even minor- mistakes. Not to mention the quite likely increase in class-racism. No thanks.

well. you have guard and mesmers for aegis. don't want aegis? fine, dodge. what's the problem? but you play with chrono anyway that gives you quickness and alacrity in all fractals. so why do you care about class racism? unless you don't play with chronos in fracs at all on purpose. does it sound logical to gives aegis to everyone or epidemic to everyone? where's the uniqueness?Prime example of narrow thinking here. You assume that everyone without exception is running meta-comps no matter what. But there's also quite some people that just don't care about optimal group settings at just play T4s with the players and their classes as they come along. Parties like this can look like power nec, condi engi, condi berserker, PP thief and power soulbeast. And guess what? Those people aren't neccesarily bad or lazy players, they just like having choices and not being forced into a strict corset with no room for diversity.Right now, such parties can easily do T4s, certainly not in record times, but if everyone knows his stuff they'll finish in a totally reasonable time, because
drum-roll
the game right now is forgiving enough to let people make minor errors as long as the team makes up for it.Your suggestion would make such minor errors totally devastating and thus resulting in forcing people into "play 100% meta or get the kitten off". And that's something I just don't want to see in this game.Right now it's "Like max. efficency and rather linear, predictable runs? Go meta. Don't mind taking a little longer or having a rather unconventional experience while still having a pretty solide chance on succes? Go all welcome/phiw". And to me, having such choices is a good thing.
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@Draco.9480 said:

@Draco.9480 said:1-25 no debuffs26-50, fractal avenger, get agony stack for 3 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 20s51-75 fractal vindicators, get agony stack for 4 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 12s76-100 no down state (die if hit 0 hp), get agony stack for 5 seconds after a hit from any monster/boss ICD 7s

99 and 100 will have set of 3 boons every 20s, might, protection and fury.

I know a lot of you don't remember this, but there was a time when the only thing you needed for a good fractal run was a single ps warrior running fgj+2 banners, the rest could just be dps builds, and the group would be fairly good. It made grouping so much easier. Now you need a chrono for boon strips + boon share, druid for healing stupid almost passive damage like toxic trails and social awkwardness + might/fury, and bs warrior for banners, its awful.

In fact, didn't this game use to advertise minimizing "waiting to play".....

"We don't like sitting around spamming 'looking for healer' to global chat," Peters said. "That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun."

As long as I'm ranting, didn't gw2 once strive to be an mmo where you didn't hate having other players around you?

"We really wanted every player, when they see another player, to be happy to see that other player," Cartwright said."We ask, 'Is there any reason why I dislike another player?' And if we ever have that feeling, we get in a room and we talk about it."

So no thx op, no to any of that cancer. How about we completely get rid of social awkwardness and agony, and if we want to make bosses more difficult, we give them single well telegraphed attacks that one shot players, or the players will dodge using the active defense system this game was built around, instead of continuing to add small sustained damage that encourages healers. Healers are great in raids, but that is where the entire concept should have stayed.

who said anything about healers? you could use deadeye as might source instead a druid. you just want to get rid of the debuffs without anything to give in exchange? telegraphed aoes? maybe learn boss animations?

I may be the first one to say the word 'healers', but your suggestions are the ones pushing them. What do you think the response to no down state is? Its overhealing. Downstate allows everyone in the game to be a healer,which was the original goal, and it allows the party comps to be more flexible, your suggestion makes it worse.

I never said nothing in exchange. I said give the bosses one shot attacks. Many of the bosses do not hit that hard anymore, instead using a lower sustained damage approach, which is the approach you counter with a healer. Single spike damages are the things you counter with active defenses such as dodges/blinds/cc/aegis, you know the things this game was once centered around? Your pushing for more sustained damage by putting permanent agony on everyone. No thx.

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What i am saying: i am fine with hard content and i am the first One to play it, why do you assume that if i defend people that do not want to do hard content it actually implies that i am part of them? So if i am not bullied i should not side with the bullied? Op is trolling.

Second there is hard content and there is easy content. You are basically saying that there should not be any place for easy content which is dumb. How do you think people should make progress then? So i never went on a bike before and you want me to run a 40km run with it? Bah

what's the point of opening a thread if you start Being rude to anyone who doesnt think Like you? Open a thread with the title : "write Here to tell me how Good i am and how everything should be Like i think" if you dont want to deal with people with different opinion. What are you even doing on a forum?

The thread started decently with you arguing that instabilities are too rng (and its quite a good point to start) then it went to trash when you started saying that bad players should not have even the possibility to clear fractals. You derailed your own thread and morphed it into "reeeee bad players out of the game".

To get back into the thread: i am fine with instabilities bit some are just damn annoying and make me want to just skip the fractal as they forces you to play in really Boring and awkward ways

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