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Power Renegade?


mac.9645

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I've been playing renegade with sword/axe and dwarf stance/kalla, with berserker gear and it's going really well. I was wondering why people were so dismissive of power renegade, because as far as I can tell it's definitely viable. Have you had the chance to try this out yet? I'm going to craft some condi gear in about a weeks time because that definitely feels like how the spec was intended to be played but I'm really loving power renegade. I'd love to hear people's opinion who have tried both.

Cheers!

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@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

It's more then that. Renegade also offers 33% crit chance at full endurance. That means you can do the necro and go valkyrie's and rune of the wurm. That's a LOT more ferocity under your trunk.

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

It's more then that. Renegade also offers 33% crit chance at full endurance. That means you can do the necro and go valkyrie's and rune of the wurm. That's a LOT more ferocity under your trunk.

Nope, not in PvE. You have no guarantee in a realistic raid scenario that the crit buffs will be on you 100% of the time, making zerker's still desirable as a result.

You really have no use for extra vitality on PvE anyways thanks to healer specs now existing in the game.

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The thing with power Renegade is that all of the damage buffs that it gives are also given by Herald. Kalla's Fervor under Lasting Legacy gives 20% crit damage, and with full zerker gear this is an 8% DPS boost. For a Herald, this is equivalent to Elder's Force under 4 boons; an extremely easy feat. Everything else that the Renegade offers in traits aren't useful for a power build. The shortbow isn't that useful either.

I haven't done much testing with Icerazor or Soulcleave, but they'd have to do something pretty amazing to beat out Vengeful Hammers.

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@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

Strictly talking to sPvP, it works better than power herald IMO... No boons for those gd scourges to corrupt/breakers to rip and Soulcleave gives a very dueling feel to the play style. IE, you mark the ground and WRECK anyone who fights you in your circle.

Also, Darkrazor synergies really well... Let him do his dazespam cheese while you secure the kill.

Traitwise...I think you need to drop Assassins presence tho (sadly) for Nefarious Momentum... The might loss from no Herald was noticeable without it. I suppose you can keep AP and run Vindication as your Ren GM instead, but you lose ferocity from that too, so it's really a wash... I think out of the two, AP/Vindication is the better combo as it's an insanely easy to stack 25 might. I don't think F2 is enough might tho, you do need to take some might traits. Incensed Response isn't as strong without Facet of Darkness to fuel it for might cheesing, plus you probably want Rapid Flow anyways to keep up your power rev decap/+1'ing mobility advantage. =(But, Retaliation on evade is awesome (procs off UA and Surge as well) and Sudden Reversal/All For One are both strong in their own ways... Personally I prefer AFO, as it's easier/more reliable to use, but to each their own. Maybe if they remove/lower the cooldown on Reversal it'd see some good use...

I dunno, I was pleasantly surprised... I do think Condi Herald is still better than Condi Renegade tho, but in Power play, it's pretty even at worst.

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Tested both Power Herald with Shiro/Jalis and Power Renegade with Shiro/Jalis. Both with all boons and all damaging traits. Herald does around 2k more dps. And you're far more survivable and with an usable F2 skill.

Talking about PvE and WvW, Power Herald is better.

Also Kalla skills are complete trash. Even on condi build they lower the DPS compared to (any legend)+F3 and swap to Mallyx, meaning you'll always use another legend instead of Kalla even on condi builds.Even if the summons are nice on paper, you need to factor the energy cost, the cast time and the fact that people can kill/cc them and you can't move away from them (as well as the enemy). Even on condi builds I'll always prefer Shiro or Jalis with Mallyx. They offer more utility and no dps drop thanks to F3.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

It's more then that. Renegade also offers 33% crit chance at full endurance. That means you can do the necro and go valkyrie's and rune of the wurm. That's a LOT more ferocity under your trunk.

Nope, not in PvE. You have no guarantee in a realistic raid scenario that the crit buffs will be on you 100% of the time, making zerker's still desirable as a result.

You really have no use for extra vitality on PvE anyways thanks to healer specs now existing in the game.

In realistic raid scenario everyone has subpar damage vs golem scenario, that's not a crime. As for 100% crit rate, that's your call. Out of the box renegade + invocation can give you 77% crit chance + a lot of fury and some vigor to keep it that way. Wheather you will fill the missing 23% with upgrades and gear of your own, or leave it to your raid ranger and warrior is up to you. But it's definitely 33% crit chance and 20% crit damage more then what herald offers.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

It's more then that. Renegade also offers 33% crit chance at full endurance. That means you can do the necro and go valkyrie's and rune of the wurm. That's a LOT more ferocity under your trunk.

Nope, not in PvE. You have no guarantee in a realistic raid scenario that the crit buffs will be on you 100% of the time, making zerker's still desirable as a result.

You really have no use for extra vitality on PvE anyways thanks to healer specs now existing in the game.

I do my full clears every week... any decent raid team should be able to guarantee buffs... that's the whole point of the support existing at all...

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@narcx.3570 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

Strictly talking to sPvP, it works better than power herald IMO... No boons for those gd scourges to corrupt/breakers to rip and Soulcleave gives a very dueling feel to the play style. IE, you mark the ground and WRECK anyone who fights you in your circle.

Also, Darkrazor synergies really well... Let him do his dazespam cheese while you secure the kill.

Traitwise...I think you need to drop Assassins presence tho (sadly) for Nefarious Momentum... The might loss from no Herald was noticeable without it. I suppose you can keep AP and run Vindication as your Ren GM instead, but you lose ferocity from that too, so it's really a wash... I think out of the two, AP/Vindication is the better combo as it's an insanely easy to stack 25 might. I don't think F2 is enough might tho, you do need to take some might traits. Incensed Response isn't as strong without Facet of Darkness to fuel it for might cheesing, plus you probably want Rapid Flow anyways to keep up your power rev decap/+1'ing mobility advantage. =(But, Retaliation on evade is awesome (procs off UA and Surge as well) and Sudden Reversal/All For One are both strong in their own ways... Personally I prefer AFO, as it's easier/more reliable to use, but to each their own. Maybe if they remove/lower the cooldown on Reversal it'd see some good use...

I dunno, I was pleasantly surprised... I do think Condi Herald is still better than Condi Renegade tho, but in Power play, it's pretty even at worst.

You know you get more might with Renegade than herald ever could...

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@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

It's more then that. Renegade also offers 33% crit chance at full endurance. That means you can do the necro and go valkyrie's and rune of the wurm. That's a LOT more ferocity under your trunk.

Nope, not in PvE. You have no guarantee in a realistic raid scenario that the crit buffs will be on you 100% of the time, making zerker's still desirable as a result.

You really have no use for extra vitality on PvE anyways thanks to healer specs now existing in the game.

I do my full clears every week... any decent raid team should be able to guarantee buffs... that's the whole point of the support existing at all...

And yet most druids and chronos don't achieve the ideal buff uptime. I know you people blindly follow benchmarks, but thankfully gw2raidar will start showing people the averages in uptimes for boons per encounter.

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@Aldath.1275 said:So, as someone too poor to craft Viper armor + Weapon right now... Is it worth as Power for Open World and Fracs?

I play Power Renegade on mostly Berserker gear in PoF at the moment, when I need to break from my main's map clear or go mastery hunting or just mess around. As I said above, I think it works well in open world. I can solo most of the content.

Fractals might not be as good for Renegade but still feasible in most of them.

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Outside of pve group play, renegade just lacks compared to herald. I've got 2k plus hours on just rev alone. I solo a few dungeons/ fractals, and champs to challenge myself and I just find herald to be a lot more survivable are harder hitting than renegade. Mobs attacking the summons does help sometimes, but the fact that they get cc'd so easily while not continuing their effects is a big deal breaker. If they had a few seconds of stability on cast it might see more use.

f1-f4 abilities energy cost needs more reduction.Trait or baseline trait needs to be added that gives each summon stability on cast. Also, add something where, if a summon is killed, it explodes causing aoe damage. Remove or greatly reduce the cast time of summons.Shortbow damage needs an increase or re-designed to serve more functionality/ utility.Reduce cooldown on sudden reversal, because thats actually a really good trait.

All of this still won't solve a lot of rev problems. Like better sustain in a dps setup, lack of condi clear, lack of stability, lack of a more defined purpose in pve groups.

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I kind of cheese things with this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMskFNlqdACgGgtMSj24PIHykE-jhBGABMq+DH7PMwJAwJlfA8AA2TJIA-e

Auto-attack and let vengeful hammers run. With vindication you auto-apply 20-22 stacks of might on a single mob. With 2+ mobs you are maxed out on might almost instantly.Vengeful hammers hitting 4 times a second just really puts the stacks on. When your vuln starts to stack up and you get the damage boost at 50% stuff melts fast.

It is also has a ton of survive with Clerics. Just boring to play. Auto-attack/vengeful hammers. Luckily though I like playing healer and can switch legends and tool around.

Curious how it will do with something like valkyrie, but I'm too poor to test and I don't want to give up my healing and survival.

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@dchsknight.3042 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Hexalot.8194 said:The thing with power revenant is that to be honest it really shines more with Herald traits than with it does with Renegade. You've got your boon duration buff, The various offensive upkeep skills, etc... 300 ferocity from Kalla favor doesn't really replace all that.

Strictly talking to sPvP, it works better than power herald IMO... No boons for those gd scourges to corrupt/breakers to rip and Soulcleave gives a very dueling feel to the play style. IE, you mark the ground and WRECK anyone who fights you in your circle.

Also, Darkrazor synergies really well... Let him do his dazespam cheese while you secure the kill.

Traitwise...I think you need to drop Assassins presence tho (sadly) for Nefarious Momentum... The might loss from no Herald was noticeable without it. I suppose you can keep AP and run Vindication as your Ren GM instead, but you lose ferocity from that too, so it's really a wash... I think out of the two, AP/Vindication is the better combo as it's an insanely easy to stack 25 might. I don't think F2 is enough might tho, you do need to take some might traits. Incensed Response isn't as strong without Facet of Darkness to fuel it for might cheesing, plus you probably want Rapid Flow anyways to keep up your power rev decap/+1'ing mobility advantage. =(But, Retaliation on evade is awesome (procs off UA and Surge as well) and Sudden Reversal/All For One are both strong in their own ways... Personally I prefer AFO, as it's easier/more reliable to use, but to each their own. Maybe if they remove/lower the cooldown on Reversal it'd see some good use...

I dunno, I was pleasantly surprised... I do think Condi Herald is still better than Condi Renegade tho, but in Power play, it's pretty even at worst.

You know you get more might with Renegade than herald ever could...

I dunno how you played Herald, but I would have 20+ stacks of might around 6 seconds into any fight right when I swap to Shiro.

But Vindication does build it fast, so it's all good.

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