How long should you take to clear daily fractals?

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Excellent idea, I really like it. Always wanted a single fractal to last for hours to really savour that glorious experience.

[Allea.7496]

I joined a pug for t4s the other day, granted I was off-meta heal tempest but we took about 40ish minutes to clear T4 dailies alone, not that fast but with some condi DPS players too so while it was not the fastest, they were fairly smooth to say the least.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Saint Sated.2698 said:

@steki.1478 said:Most of people will always want to fastest possible clear and they'll take whatever classes can achieve that.

I profoundly disagree. Most players will take whatever class they enjoy the most, and most players are not speed clearers.

+1 , some people do instances because they like playing their character in an instance, not to get back out of the instance asap with loot.

[Hesacon.8735]

You need to take into account how long it takes to form a party, not how long it takes to clear. The difference in clear time between your level 1 and level 3 is so small that level 3 will typically finish faster, because it starts sooner. The mythical meta group sits in LFG for 10-15 minutes waiting for that last piece to join.

That's my knock on raids in general, how long it takes to fill because of how specific people find it necessary to be. Your finish time for your level 3 seems right with my experience, but near reset the party fills and starts immediately.

[Feanor.2358]

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

[Aktium.9506]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

considering the state of bosses like artsariiv and siax, they could both benefit from being somewhere around 10x as long

add in another phase or two if it gets tedious

bursting phases to skip dealing with mechanics has ever been a cancerous design

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Aktium.9506" said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

...Which will take ages to clear, when people with "i play however I want to" join with WvW tank gear, full signets, and vitality+toughness food. Yay.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

considering the state of bosses like artsariiv and siax, they could both benefit from being somewhere around 10x as long

add in another phase or two if it gets tedious

bursting phases to skip dealing with mechanics has ever been a cancerous design

Brute force through the mechanics is bad. But will need another solution than just giving more HP/armor to the bosses. Yes (buffing bosses), will prevent capable groups from skipping mechanics but at the sametime it will negatively effect groups that are not capable of doing so. Their runs will more tedious and having a higher chance for mistakes to happen for extending the encounter. And no, adding more phases won't help in any way, at least for me. Take Arkk for example (CM or not, but he's the worse I could think off atm), he dissapears from the platform or goes invul so many times. When I'm on soulbeast, it's not fun having my 17-22k bleed reseted so often.

[Vinceman.4572]

Artsaariv with more phases? As if those 3 already aren't enough. It's "worse" with Arkk, many phases and I guess I'm not alone when I say that this fight is at the maximum in terms of play time. Adding more hp or additional phases would make these encounters boring/tedious as hell.

[Feanor.2358]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

considering the state of bosses like artsariiv and siax, they could both benefit from being somewhere around 10x as long

add in another phase or two if it gets tedious

bursting phases to skip dealing with mechanics has ever been a cancerous design

The ability to burst through instead of dealing with their ridiculous bullet hells is the only thing that makes them playable.

[Aktium.9506]

@"Voltekka.2375" said:...Which will take ages to clear, when people with "i play however I want to" join with WvW tank gear, full signets, and vitality+toughness food. Yay.

that's why we also need anet to add gear and build inspection

@Eramonster.2718 said:Brute force through the mechanics is bad. But will need another solution than just giving more HP/armor to the bosses. Yes (buffing bosses), will prevent capable groups from skipping mechanics but at the sametime it will negatively effect groups that are not capable of doing so. Their runs will more tedious and having a higher chance for mistakes to happen for extending the encounter.thats a good thing thotrial by fire has ever been the best way to get players to improveforcing people to become better at something or failing horribly succeeds where hand-holding and mollycoddling fails

And no, adding more phases won't help in any way, at least for me. Take Arkk for example (CM or not, but he's the worse I could think off atm), he dissapears from the platform or goes invul so many times. When I'm on soulbeast, it's not fun having my 17-22k bleed reseted so often.well that wouldnt be a problem if he didn't go invuln and still took damage from any conditions on him when he teleported away

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Artsaariv with more phases? As if those 3 already aren't enough. It's "worse" with Arkk, many phases and I guess I'm not alone when I say that this fight is at the maximum in terms of play time. Adding more hp or additional phases would make these encounters boring/tedious as hell.cmon man, it's like a 3-4 minute fight currently. thats far too short for it to feel satisfying

@Feanor.2358 said:The ability to burst through instead of dealing with their ridiculous bullet hells is the only thing that makes them playable.everything is better with bullet hellsany encounter where you can stand still and simply do your rotation in peace should have some manner of bullet hell or jumping puzzle mechanic added to it and it would be better for it

[Vinceman.4572]

@Aktium.9506 said:cmon man, it's like a 3-4 minute fight currently. thats far too short for it to feel satisfying

It's not about a single encounter you have to look at the whole fractal and level 100 (CM) already is one of the longer ones, especially non-cm due to unskippable rp-trash.Also, fractals are a daily thing. I'm pugging on a daily basis and with 150KP+ groups you'lle need about 1h 20 min on average for CMs + T4s + Recs which is enough I would say. There is no need to increase that.

[Feanor.2358]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:The ability to burst through instead of dealing with their ridiculous bullet hells is the only thing that makes them playable.everything is better with bullet hellsany encounter where you can stand still and simply do your rotation in peace should have some manner of bullet hell or jumping puzzle mechanic added to it and it would be better for it

Except you can't just stand still and simply do your rotation in peace. You say it like it is an inherent property of the encounter. It isn't. It is the result of good teamwork. It is the result of using the combat mechanics of the game to the fullest. Not just by you, personally, but also by your party members. And this is precisely why it is better if you can do it - because teamwork should be rewarded.

[Aktium.9506]

@"Feanor.2358" said:It is the result of good teamwork.you mean chronos and druids carrying the encounter mechanics

that sort of "teamwork" deserves no reward and should be actively punished

[Feanor.2358]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:It is the result of good

teamwork

.you mean chronos and druids carrying the encounter mechanics

that sort of "teamwork" deserves no reward and should be actively punished

They are carrying their part, I am carrying mine. It only works because they can cover my fragility and I can cover their lack of damage output. Being able to pull that means the game has a good and fun combat system.

[painpainwo.9013]

back after 5 years.. lfg group for fotm is bad, most of them dont know what to do... missed those stacking speed run days..power warrior here, anyone still running fotm for profit? please add, thanks.

[Despond.2174]

Average T4 3 dailies seems to be 40min, teams spot on 30-35. But 35-45min shouldn't take more, if it is then there's one or more people letting the group down. Maybe if it's TO or something you can expect slower times. There's so many dailies in this game, you definitely don't want to be bogged down unnecessarily. If you're using guildies and friends then it can be a lot quicker but the times I've listed is my general pug experience for years.

[Deepcuts.9740]

A bit off topicI really don't get people who try to clear daily fractals as fast as possible by using /gg whenever they can for an extra 10 seconds, skipping mobs that can drop good loot for an extra 10 seconds maybe (but usually for even less than that because squishy and slow dps will die or fall to their deaths being in a hurry to get to the next checkpoint) so they can say they are "pro".Dungeons have the same problem: even when stated in lfg that "no mobs skipping", there will be people who join only to complain that killing mobs on the way to the next boss is a waste of time and that they want to get out of that dungeon as fast as possible. Question is: if you can read a lfg, why join? Create your own party with "rush rush skip skip stealth stealth glitch glitch".So thinking about how long a fractal or a dungeon takes to clear is the wrong way to look at it if you are playing the game to entertain yourself.When all you think about is "how fast you can I get out of this daily chore", you are not enjoying the content anymore.I understand there are people obsessed with speed clears and all sorts of gimmicks to achieve that. And that is fine with me. But those type of players should specify this in lfg so they have better chances to get party members with the same mind set, while keeping people with a different mind set away.

On point:My usual T4+Daily Recommended can take anywhere from 30 minutes (if lady luck is with us) to 1 hour.I don't time it. Guild Wars is my escape not my daily chore.

[Fearless.3569]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

ZOS started doing this to their dungeons and trials(ESO's version of Raids). It made the gameplay more of a annoying chore, then a fun experience. As a result, less then 1% of the game populate even bothers with this content. More so even less then that can complete them on hardmode.

As one who experienced this, not so fun paradigm shift in ESO. Would not wish to have to experience this lazy dev design, here as well. I honestly believe it do nothing to make the game more interesting at all.

[phs.6089]

I dunno what you talking about, I pug, my fractal characters bit outdated, condi sb and power dh. Done with FB, done with Rev, done with FB +Rev, done 99CM with Thinking Scourge, no druid or crono. Won't lie best run was with 2 cronos(guess one of them was ministrel) But most of daily t4s +recs doesn't take more then 1.30 minuts in a bad day.

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

yes please let us get dailies 4 hours long.

@tim.4596 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@tim.4596 said:Actually my initial thought when making this post was that, I remember when I was still discovering the game, I enjoyed making new classes, gearing them and then trying them out in Fractals of the Mists, as dungeons are not much of a challenge anymore, and it is hard to find a group so fractals seemed the best place where to 'play the class'.

You can still "play how you want" even T4s. Just join "Daily T4s" and such stuff or open an own lfg.

Yes but why would I want to join a T4 group only and take the same time that I would with a fully optimized group to do CM's

+ T4?

Actually, I have done that, but I would generally wait another week before doing it again, because I dont want to spend 2h in fotm.

Maybe I should use video to illustrate video to better illustrate my point, and actually compare those numbers live.

And you talking of elitism, ya?

[Zenith.7301]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

Riiigh. Make bosses health sponges so fractals can be tedious. Great design! /s

considering the state of bosses like artsariiv and siax, they could both benefit from being somewhere around 10x as long

add in another phase or two if it gets tedious

bursting phases to skip dealing with mechanics has ever been a cancerous design

The ability to burst through instead of dealing with their ridiculous bullet hells is the only thing that makes them playable.

What's so ridiculous about bullet hells? That's what's enjoyable about them. When you've dodged the mechanics well, it feels GOOD.

When you get 2x orbs and either a green circle or skull and you pull it off, it feels GOOD.

Of course, some crap about Artsariv could be more fair, like the knockdown orbs not being point blank so you don't get chain stunned into her stomp, but as far as engaging mechanics go these bosses are pretty solid. Even Skorvald can be fun when you learn to cope with his whirling defense phase.

It also makes it feel like your choice of utility/weapons matters. It felt good to be on my power chrono DPS and have blurred frenzy, distortion, and sword 4 to survive the bullet hell phase more efficiently, or to have wall of reflection/feedback on artsariv to lessen the projectile threat from the adds. Having a scourge for epidemic for that fight creates a great moment of satisfaction for the scourge player.

Having the CC for the CC phase feels good, as well as having sufficient CC and stability for making the final phase on MAMA much more manageable.

Having useful tools to survive mechanics instead of equipping every single possible DPS utility is GOOD.

That's what's actually great about playing old school chrono. You know when a chrono has learned his stuff on point, because he can land reflects in key moments, he can use aegis when he knows artsariv just knocked down a teammate and block her stomp, he can use the pull to deal with adds, the druid can use his staff 5 to deal with orbs at the right time. A competent druid brings healing spring during afflicted week and you can obviously tell the difference.

These things feel good, not treating bosses like glorified training golems just because you've offloaded much of the responsibility of surviving to 2 of the 5 team members.

[yLoon.5289]

Quite often the meta-group is forced to /gg when both "Tank" and "Healer" drop dead.Well, I had finished t4 with 2 Zerk Mesmer around 30+ mins, without a Druid. That was the old "good" time during Zerkers Meta then. People were complaining because Zerkers Meta renders other stats void and it doesn't encourage other builds at all. That is why Arena pulled out the bunny from their hat aka Druid.

The current meta is actually spoiling us to slack off, especially to the two players who played as tank and Healer, leaving the remaining 3 players to do the hard work; while the other 3 players can ignore mechanic since "Healer can heal me, I dunwanna dodge to break my awesome rotation" mentality.

Question is, do people want to go back to the old Zerk Meta? Or the current specific role meta? xDFor me, if everyone is pulling their own weight, knowing the mechanics, using the right skill at the right time, the class composition of T4 group doesn't really matter at all. The only fractal that required meta Tank and Healer would be the CM one. Though, I had done CM without the meta composition too, just a bit slightly harder xD.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Zenith.7301 said:

What's so ridiculous about bullet hells? That's what's enjoyable about them. When you've dodged the mechanics well, it feels GOOD.

When you get 2x orbs and either a green circle or skull and you pull it off, it feels GOOD.It feels better if you decide to ignore skulls at art and phase her before each explosion. Same with Ark. The 2nd one at art is quite hard, way harder than just doing the mechanic.Thats why I prefer no healer comps. Gameplay actually matters there because you can't facetank every mechanic.

Having useful tools to survive mechanics instead of equipping every single possible DPS utility is GOOD.But you already do that in no healer comps. DH brings stabi for TO. Warr plays a lot with m/m instead of dps weapons.

These things feel good, not treating bosses like glorified training golems just because you've offloaded much of the responsibility of surviving to 2 of the 5 team members.Thats a problem with playing with a healer. Its not needed for fractals. It wasnt used for 4 years and only started to haunt fractals during the end of hot.

@"yLoon.5289" said:Quite often the meta-group is forced to /gg when both "Tank" and "Healer" drop dead.Well, I had finished t4 with 2 Zerk Mesmer around 30+ mins, without a Druid. That was the old "good" time during Zerkers Meta then. People were complaining because Zerkers Meta renders other stats void and it doesn't encourage other builds at all. That is why Arena pulled out the bunny from their hat aka Druid.

The current meta is actually spoiling us to slack off, especially to the two players who played as tank and Healer, leaving the remaining 3 players to do the hard work; while the other 3 players can ignore mechanic since "Healer can heal me, I dunwanna dodge to break my awesome rotation" mentality.

Question is, do people want to go back to the old Zerk Meta? Or the current specific role meta? xDFor me, if everyone is pulling their own weight, knowing the mechanics, using the right skill at the right time, the class composition of T4 group doesn't really matter at all. The only fractal that required meta Tank and Healer would be the CM one. Though, I had done CM without the meta composition too, just a bit slightly harder xD.

Healer is not meta in fractals. It's pug and new player meta. Tank in fractals is just completely wrong. What would a tank even do? Chrono can have some dps aswell you know? It's still zerk meta for almost every fractal. Some shitty reworks like mai trin are just a pain to do without a healer but most of the fractals don't need one.