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Hellfire / Radiant sets ability to turn into Legendary


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How awesome would it be to give players the ability to transform their Hellfire / Radiant sets into Legendary Tier?I don't mean for free, similar in terms of materials to the other Armor types, gifts, mystic clovers, fine materials and so on, only using Hellfire / Radiant as precursors.This would be a really long term goal of course, and probably the most expensive precursor of all of them, to get a full set you need 30k Achievement Points and although many are easy to get, others take much time, skill, or resources.

They don't need to make a new skin for them, similar to the WvW and PvP sets.

Thoughts?

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@"Malediktus.9250" said:They could definitely need some attention considering these armors take the most effort bar none in the game.At the very least they need to improve the visuals since they are still stuck in 2012 and every gemshop item looks better.

Well if they were Legendary and animated, they could make them so they "erupt" when you enter combat. They would look less fiery/shinny out of combat and change when you engage

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@"Khisanth.2948" said:Meh ... most heavily time gated but least amount of skill required

Since in order to get those sets you need to complete most content in the game, including what is needed to craft the other Legendary Armors, I wouldn't call it "least amount of skill required". Sure, if you wait 10 more years you can get them without the need to do anything skillful in the game, trade skill and effort with a really long time.

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It might be the only way I ever get legendary armor, so yay? I am closing in on the chest piece now. I don't know that anyone has managed to get the back as yet.

But here's a huge issue: the Radiant skins are not very dyeable. Like, one channel per piece at most (three of the pieces don't dye at all). Using Radiant as a base for my Firebrand's look I ended up with extremely restricted options to keep things coherent. I can't say how Hellfire compares in that regard but I imagine it's similar. Also, Radiant enforces a heavy armor look. So this would be fairly visually disappointing, though of course one can always skin over the piece and just enjoy the stat swap functionality.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:Meh ... most heavily time gated but least amount of skill required

Because hitting the cap on the daily AP is more then enough to max out AP rewards /sarcasm. With the way AP is spread out, and daily/monthly having a cap that only gets raised after a few thousand go to waste, you have no choice but to actually do Achievements to get a full set of those skins. You can get a max of 15k from Dailies, you need 30k for a full Radiant or Hellfire set, 39k if you also want the back piece.

I kind of go out of my way for certain achievements, and have 10.7k in permanent AP, and 9.8k in Dailies, and 707 from the historical monthly category. If push my daily up to the Max, thats roughly 26.4k AP. I can easily see the average player being half the permanent AP, making the casual + daily closer to 20k AP total from just doing general story and daily achievements.

Say we uncap daily. 5k causal permanent AP, plus daily AP...... so to make up the difference, its 2500 days... or 6.8 years of having played it every day under this system since the game first launched. And thats not even a good representation given the older dailies awarded less overall unless you did every single one on the list.... so its longer then that. So making Legendary armor a reward for that length of loyalty raises more questions about what Anet thinks of the player. This is on top of the already questionable aspects of Legendary armor in the reward system that uses QOL as an incentive for massive time/gold sinks.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:Meh ... most heavily time gated but least amount of skill required

Since in order to get those sets you need to complete most content in the game, including what is needed to craft the other Legendary Armors, I wouldn't call it "least amount of skill required".

At first I thought it might be a decent idea, but, then, when you pointed this out it makes it a futile endeavor. If players end up needing to do the content that would allow them to craft the other Legendary Armors, they would already have the means (if not the legendary armor itself) to craft the other Legendary Sets and there would be no reason to pursue this path.

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@Donari.5237 said:It might be the only way I ever get legendary armor, so yay? I am closing in on the chest piece now. I don't know that anyone has managed to get the back as yet.

But here's a huge issue: the Radiant skins are not very dyeable. Like, one channel per piece at most (three of the pieces don't dye at all). Using Radiant as a base for my Firebrand's look I ended up with extremely restricted options to keep things coherent. I can't say how Hellfire compares in that regard but I imagine it's similar. Also, Radiant enforces a heavy armor look. So this would be fairly visually disappointing, though of course one can always skin over the piece and just enjoy the stat swap functionality.Solution: make sure the legendary version of the skin has more color channels.

Won't help with the heavy look for radiant, of course. On the other hand, hellfire does fit light and medium armor classes quite well.

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:Meh ... most heavily time gated but least amount of skill required

Since in order to get those sets you need to complete most content in the game, including what is needed to craft the other Legendary Armors, I wouldn't call it "least amount of skill required".

At first I thought it might be a decent idea, but, then, when you pointed this out it makes it a futile endeavor. If players end up needing to do the content that would allow them to craft the other Legendary Armors, they would already have the means (if not the legendary armor itself) to craft the other Legendary Sets and there would be no reason to pursue this path.It is possible to obtain a full helllfire/radiant set without even coming close to getting one of the current legendary armors - although getting points from PvP and WvW obviously helps a lot.

While this path would require more effort (by far) than the current ones, it's also one where you'd have the most leeway in how you would approach it. There's enough APs in the game to let you decide which ones you will pursue and which ones you'd skip. And there will be new ones with each LS and expansion.

It's probably the best example of a path that, while offering you a lot of choice, would not be easy or effortless. And one that would be at the same time most exclusive and very inclusive (as in, not many people would obtain the set, but practically everyone would walk the path and see the progress on it)

As you can probably guess from this post, i'm very much in favour of it.

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@Mazreal Blackknight.1564 said:If I didnt have to obtain both sets I would be down for it. I mean I already have one set of raid armor, and also 4/6 pieces of wvw armor. But I dont like that I get half of Radiant then have to pick a hellfire piece and then wait until I can get another piece of the skins I want.

Yeah, that (and the first 4 pieces of hellfire being worse quality and slightly different in art style than the chest and pants) is a really negative sideeffect of Anet doing things piecemeal, without enough foreplanning. Unfortunately i don't see any good and easy way to fix it now.

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The idea is nonsense.

How about people that are new to the game, took breaks, etc.? They lost a lot of potential AP through dailies and stuff like LWS1. Just look at how much AP you've already lost, when you've only started playing GW2... let's say 1 year ago. It would cater too much to the people who've played GW2 more or less from the start and without a break and there are already birthday-presents for these people.

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@"Raizel.8175" said:The idea is nonsense.

How about people that are new to the game, took breaks, etc.? They lost a lot of potential AP through dailies and stuff like LWS1. Just look at how much AP you've already lost, when you've only started playing GW2... let's say 1 year ago. It would cater too much to the people who've played GW2 more or less from the start and without a break and there are already birthday-presents for these people.

There is no loss of dailies, the cap is the same for every player at 15k, eventually every player in the game reaches that cap. Every time someone does, we see a thread about it on the forums. LS1 is 5569 Achievement Points that are no longer available for newer players. The top player on the leaderboards has 37558 AP, which means a player can reach the first set without needing any LS1 achievements (you need 30k for the first complete set).

Plus, the idea is to make the hardest set to acquire (much harder than any other in the game) get a Legendary status because it deserves it, due to it being so much harder than any other set to acquire. It's more of a loyalty and long-term reward so I don't understand why you bring players that are new or that took breaks. It's not like making these sets Legendary would cause other Legendary armors to disappear, I'm not asking for a replacement.

Edit: Also birthday presents are not given only to active players of the game. If I started on release, took a 5 year break, then came back, I'll get all the birthday presents in-between even though I wasn't playing this game for that long. Birthday presents are not a loyalty reward because they do not reward loyalty, they simply "reward" players for being there at some point in the game's history. AP on the other hand require at least some amount of active play to acquire them.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Mazreal Blackknight.1564" said:If I didnt have to obtain both sets I would be down for it. I mean I already have one set of raid armor, and also 4/6 pieces of wvw armor. But I dont like that I get half of Radiant then have to pick a hellfire piece and then wait until I can get another piece of the skins I want.

Yeah, that (and the first 4 pieces of hellfire being worse quality and slightly different in art style than the chest and pants) is a really negative sideeffect of Anet doing things piecemeal, without enough foreplanning. Unfortunately i don't see any good and easy way to fix it now.

The 4 first sets are the same regardless of weight that's why they look "different", there is no Hellfire Light gloves to make them look different than Hellfire Medium Gloves.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:The idea is nonsense.

How about people that are new to the game, took breaks, etc.? They lost a lot of potential AP through dailies and stuff like LWS1. Just look at how much AP you've already lost, when you've only started playing GW2... let's say 1 year ago. It would cater too much to the people who've played GW2 more or less from the start and without a break and there are already birthday-presents for these people.

There is no loss of dailies, the cap is the same for every player at 15k, eventually every player in the game reaches that cap. Every time someone does, we see a thread about it on the forums. LS1 is 5569 Achievement Points that are no longer available for newer players. The top player on the leaderboards has 37558 AP, which means a player can reach the first set without needing any LS1 achievements (you need 30k for the first complete set).

Guess how much time it takes to reach 15k AP just by doing dailies? More than four years.

...and if you think these 5k AP from S1 don't matter, you're wrong. At the very least, they're a gross discrimination of people who weren't able to enjoy that content.

Plus, the idea is to make the hardest set to acquire (much harder than any other in the game) get a Legendary status because it deserves it, due to it being so much harder than any other set to acquire. It's more of a loyalty and long-term reward so I don't understand why you bring players that are new or that took breaks. It's not like making these sets Legendary would cause other Legendary armors to disappear, I'm not asking for a replacement.

Hard? It's just a massive time-gate with discriminating factors which lead to not everyone being able to achieve it in a reasonable amout of time. You already have loyalty- and long-term-rewards in birthday-presents, achievement-chests and even in game-mechanics like magic find. People are already complaining about raid-armor being the only PvE-set even though it's achievable by everyone. Do you think it's good to add a discriminating set that can - even potentially - only be achieved by a minority? It would certainly lead to toxicity.

I'm not against another (PvE-) set, but your idea isn't really solid.

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@"Raizel.8175" said:Guess how much time it takes to reach 15k AP just by doing dailies? More than four years.

That's why it's called a loyalty reward. Otherwise they'd give the achievement rewards with birthday presents requiring no actual play of the game. Playing for 1500 days can get a loyalty reward.

You already have loyalty- and long-term-rewards in birthday-presents, achievement-chests and even in game-mechanics like magic find.

As explained already, you don't have to be "loyal" to get birthday presents and achievement chests don't really have anything of value inside them.

Do you think it's good to add a discriminating set that can - even potentially - only be achieved by a minority?

Yes. If you haven't noticed, the other sets will stay as they are and at the same time provide a new path to Legendary Armor, Armor that doesn't need much visual change to be "Legendary", maybe a few touches here and there (and certainly change gloves/boots/shoulder/helmet to be weight-based). It's very little work, compared with making an entire new legendary armor set, the mechanics are there AND it gives a rather good loyalty reward for those aiming for that.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raizel.8175" said:Guess how much time it takes to reach 15k AP just by doing dailies? More than four years.

That's why it's called a loyalty reward. Otherwise they'd give the achievement rewards with birthday presents requiring no actual play of the game. Playing for 1500 days can get a loyalty reward.

You already have loyalty- and long-term-rewards in birthday-presents, achievement-chests and even in game-mechanics like magic find.

As explained already, you don't have to be "loyal" to get birthday presents and achievement chests don't really have anything of value inside them.

Achievement-chests and birthday-presents are already a form of loyalty-reward. It's fine the way it is. Besides: Loyalty is one thing, over-rewarding loyalty with legendary armor another. (You still seem to forget that legendary armor is one of the main-rewards.) It's just not reasonable.

Do you think it's good to add a discriminating set that can - even potentially - only be achieved by a minority?

Yes. If you haven't noticed, the other sets will stay as they are and at the same time provide a new path to Legendary Armor, Armor that doesn't need much visual change to be "Legendary", maybe a few touches here and there (and certainly change gloves/boots/shoulder/helmet to be weight-based). It's very little work, compared with making an entire new legendary armor set, the mechanics are there AND it gives a rather good loyalty reward for those aiming for that.

It will devalue them (even further) since the set you want will become the most prestigious set (especially since you want it to be animated). It will especially devalue the current PvP and WvW sets. Having another (PvE) path to legendary armor could be a good idea, since people complain that it's currently locked behind raids, but: People want an achievable armor-set; your's isn't.

All in all, it's still a really bad idea.

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@Raizel.8175 said:Achievement-chests and birthday-presents are already a form of loyalty-reward. It's fine the way it is. Besides: Loyalty is one thing, over-rewarding loyalty with legendary armor another. (You still seem to forget that legendary armor is one of the main-rewards.) It's just not reasonable.

No they are not a form of loyalty. Someone that created an account on release, then left for 5 years and only now coming back will get all the years of birthday presents without playing the game much. That's not loyalty.

It will devalue them (even further) since the set you want will become the most prestigious set (especially since you want it to be animated). It will especially devalue the current PvP and WvW sets.

First you say that only a tiny few will get it... now you are saying that it will devalue the other Armors. How is adding something for a tiny few going to devalue anything?They already have animations, the Hellfire one has smoke and flames and Radiant has glowing lights. Tweaking those to be a bit prominent is still much less work than making an entirely new PVE set. And besides, they could give them the ability to become legendary without altering the skins at all, like the PVP/WVW Legendary armors. That would be fine too.

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Why not just being able to upgrade the armor that you get through 500 crafting (only way) and gate it behind guild mission and guild halls upgrade, participation in all fractal tiers (character-bound items) and new content of an expansion ?

In a long term effort, you could have different tiers of this armor, up to tier 3 for example.T1 would be the armor the armor that you get through crafting and with stats that you can modify through the mystic forge, T2 would give an upgraded look (nothing really flashy) with unlimited access to stat swap and T3 would just give a flashy upgrade to T2 armor. And each upgrade opportunity would be locked behind one expansion.

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