WvW: Greatsword....Viable!?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Gs4 And gs5 Is good but gs3 And gs2 Is rly hard to hit. I played staff Axe/wh.i Think Its JUST personal opinion. GS Is good if you have a party with you

[DeceiverX.8361]

It's honestly not even worth playing reaper without GS most of the time.

Just don't try to use it to deal damage, and above all, do not try to make Gravedigger work. Use it for LF gen, CC, boon corruption, and utility/sustain and gap closing and interrupts via skill 5 and chaining with CttB. Your primary sources of damage are shroud and Ghastly Claws on MH Axe. Do not try for the third hit of the AA chain unless you know it'll land and have no better course of action. If you can get damage off with it, great. Otherwise, its slowness is going to just open you up to being killed.

The best way to phrase how to use GS is the following:If you try to make GS a primary weapon for all situations, it will be terrible. If you play to its strengths and don't try to force its weaknesses to work, it's one of the best weapon choices on necromancer in general due to the sheer utility it offers, and easily is a substantial reason why reaper is playable.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Gs4 And gs5 Is good but gs3 And gs2 Is rly hard to hit. I played staff Axe/wh.i Think Its JUST personal opinion. GS Is good if you have a party with you

The problem is, everyone knows to range spam the necro, i do wish that Gs4 was like an aura that destroyed projectiles on top of its current boon removal and blind and cripple application. Gs5 is okay. Quite easy to avoid though. Yeah i am thinking the same. It seems more of a group weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:It's honestly not even worth playing reaper without GS most of the time.

I would argue with this, theme wise i would agree. Gameplay wise i would disagree. It's not needed and in quite a few ways its a bad weapon, but it look so cool that its just disappointing.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Just don't try to use it to deal damage, and above all, do not try to make Gravedigger work. Use it for LF gen, CC, boon corruption, and utility/sustain and gap closing and interrupts via skill 5 and chaining with CttB. Your primary sources of damage are shroud and Ghastly Claws on MH Axe. Do not try for the third hit of the AA chain unless you know it'll land and have no better course of action. If you can get damage off with it, great. Otherwise, its slowness is going to just open you up to being killed.

Interesting. So you use it for Life Force Gen? Doesnt that kinda waste the potential damage? I mean it can hit hard. Its just not very well designed. This weapon would be PERFECT on say a warrior. A class that can take insane damage and shrug it off. Has insane mobility to keep in melee and such, on Necro which is VERY slow, easily kited, easily killed it just doesnt really work in a WvW/PvP setting.

I don't use Axe. I kinda find it boring, I prefer Dagger/Warhorn for sustain, leeching, CC, mobility (kinda) and does decent damage and comes with boon hate and an immobilize. With Scepter/Dagger as my other set for ranged, boon corruption, Cripple, Condi transfer, good weakness application. Its only real kinda weakness is poor Life Force generation

@DeceiverX.8361 said:The best way to phrase how to use GS is the following:If you try to make GS a primary weapon for all situations, it will be terrible. If you play to its strengths and don't try to force its weaknesses to work, it's one of the best weapon choices on necromancer in general due to the sheer utility it offers, and easily is a substantial reason why reaper is playable.

I would agree with that the problem is, what are its strengths? It doesnt exactly do anything that other weapons cant already do. It has MANY more weaknesses than strengths. Slow, unreliable to hit, Gs4 and Gs5 are the best skills but easy to avoid. Combined with how slow Necro is you can just be easily kited with it equipped :(

[Nimon.7840]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:It's honestly not even worth playing reaper without GS most of the time.

Just don't try to use it to deal damage, and above all, do not try to make Gravedigger work. Use it for LF gen, CC, boon corruption, and utility/sustain and gap closing and interrupts via skill 5 and chaining with CttB. Your primary sources of damage are shroud and Ghastly Claws on MH Axe. Do not try for the third hit of the AA chain unless you know it'll land and have no better course of action. If you can get damage off with it, great. Otherwise, its slowness is going to just open you up to being killed.

The best way to phrase how to use GS is the following:If you try to make GS a primary weapon for all situations, it will be terrible. If you play to its strengths and don't try to force its weaknesses to work, it's one of the best weapon choices on necromancer in general due to the sheer utility it offers, and easily is a substantial reason why reaper is playable.

GS 4 can be a pretty good defensive skill. No good player will walk inside of it to hit you. But be careful for thiefes, they can port in and hit you before blindness is on them.In general gravedigger is most likely only to cleave downs, especially when people try to rezz them.Combo of GS 5 into 4 into 3 works 90% of the times, as almost noone is fast enough to use a stunbreak while being pulled.

Make sure what you want to do.GS is most likely for baiting out dodges.

Like deceiver said. Axe 2 and shroud are your dmg sources. But axe autoattacks can be also pretty annoying to deal with.

I almost never use GS autoattacks. Use superior sigill of agility on gs. It's really nice to have one fast skill of GS when swapping.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Nimon.7840 said:GS 4 can be a pretty good defensive skill. No good player will walk inside of it to hit you. But be careful for thiefes, they can port in and hit you before blindness is on them.

The problem with that is, EVERYONE has ranged attacks and Necro has by FAR the worst counters to range spam in the game. I cant think of another class that is as weak to range as Necro. Then as you mention Thieves able to jump in, spam attack and get out before it even procs. Warriors will laugh off the blind and such.

@Nimon.7840 said:In general gravedigger is most likely only to cleave downs, especially when people try to rezz them.Combo of GS 5 into 4 into 3 works 90% of the times, as almost noone is fast enough to use a stunbreak while being pulled.

Yeah Gravedigger is just too telegraphed that everyone and their grandma knows how to avoid it as its huge telegraph and long wind up. Does work great on downed people though. I think Gs4 needs its effect ICD reduced from 2 seconds to 1 second. The problem with that combo, the further away the are. The easier that combo is to avoid. As Gs5 is very easy to get away from if you are at reasonable range.

@Nimon.7840 said:Make sure what you want to do.GS is most likely for baiting out dodges.

I guess that is true, as everything is so easy to dodge, the threatening skills are TOO easy to dodge. Not sure what you mean by the first part.

@Nimon.7840 said:Like deceiver said. Axe 2 and shroud are your dmg sources. But axe autoattacks can be also pretty annoying to deal with.I almost never use GS autoattacks. Use superior sigill of agility on gs. It's really nice to have one fast skill of GS when swapping.

Never been a fan of Axe. I do have an Ascended Axe so i guess i could give it a try. What would you recommend to run with it? Yeah my Greatsword (was being used on Dragonhunter) has Agility and Intelligence on it. Would you swap Intelligence or keep it?

[pah.4931]

The reason GS is so good for power reaper is because the alternatives are not good.

Nightfall (#4) is one of the best abilities in the game (it's so good it makes Soul Eater worth taking in some cases)... Grasping Darkness (#5) is good and it's fun landing skill shots and in a world without 987875 stability access and 90987345 evade access and classes with extreme mobility with hardly any downside, it would be great. Death Spiral (#3) is OK; the vuln application is good, the LF generation is decent is good, and it's not hard to land. The AA and Gravedigger are both bad and get worse against better players. Which is weird, because Gravedigger is terrible design for PvE too (usually if something is lame in PvP it's because PvE... but GD is an anomaly).

BUT... staff is just for extra control and small poke damage and dagger is still not great... so Greatsword it is! If dagger ever gets the redesign it desperately needs, then you'd have a legit choice (axe / warhorn is too good for PvP). Until then... Greatsword it is!

[Nimon.7840]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnc0Albi90A22A0bildBLOKmF3iUXhzQWAKqlACAA-jlSBQBIU9HKcCA2whAYGLIQz9Dy3RAAAPAA8oPwkKBzoyPSBknkN-w

That's my current build. I also tried rune of durability and warhorn. It really depends on what you are fighting.Same goes for healskill. If you don't meet many Condi builds, use the shout instead. Then you can consider the shout trait.

Going into shroud will heal you for [1(swiftness)+1(retaliation)+1(stability)+5(might)]×172=1376

Placing down your well and standing inside of it, then going into shroud will give you even more heal.

I'm not so happy with my sigills though. I really like having hydromancy on gs, but most of the times I go into shroud while having GS, and in shroud I wanna have sigill of strength. To have higher burst and more healing.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@pah.4931 said:The reason GS is so good for power reaper is because the alternatives are not good.

Does that not say something? It's basically the "best" of a bad bunch? :(

@pah.4931 said:Nightfall (#4) is one of the best abilities in the game (it's so good it makes Soul Eater worth taking in some cases)... Grasping Darkness (#5) is good and it's fun landing skill shots and in a world without 987875 stability access and 90987345 evade access and classes with extreme mobility with hardly any downside, it would be great. Death

You really think so? because i have used it and it been totally countered either by mindless boon application, constant teleports in and out and by the fact it has a 2second ICD kinda makes it meh against anyone that isnt asleep as its easy to get out of. Curious how Soul Eater makes it better?

Gs5 is good against someone AFK or fighting someone else. ANyone else unless they are nearly on top of you to begin with have a HUGE telegraph and a slow projectile like effect to avoid or dodge it. Yeah it would be great in that game, shame that isnt this game lol

@pah.4931 said:Spiral (#3) is OK; the vuln application is good, the LF generation is decent is good, and it's not hard to land. The AA and Gravedigger are both bad and get worse against better players. Which is weird, because Gravedigger is terrible design for PvE too (usually if something is lame in PvP it's because PvE... but GD is an anomaly).

Yeah Gs3 isnt too bad, could be better. Could be worse. Kinda says something as this would be a pretty bad skill for most classes. The damage is kinda meh at best and such but on Necro its considered pretty good. Yeah the AA has WAY too long a cast time to complete the chain, the damage is decent but other weapons do more damage, faster in my opinion. I would take lower dmaage and faster hits than a hard hititng slow attack that wont hit anyone. Gravedigger is prime example of whats wrong - looks flashy, looks cool but function wise its below par. Easy to avoid and pretty much only good to spam on downed people.

@pah.4931 said:BUT... staff is just for extra control and small poke damage and dagger is still not great... so Greatsword it is! If dagger ever gets the redesign it desperately needs, then you'd have a legit choice (axe / warhorn is too good for PvP). Until then... Greatsword it is!

Gods. I hate staff. So boring, easily the worst implementation of a staff weapon so far. Its just SO boring to use. I wish it was something like a Melee weapon, keep the effects and such such but remove the mindless and boring AoE mark aspect and it would be kinda decent

@Nimon.7840 said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnc0Albi90A22A0bildBLOKmF3iUXhzQWAKqlACAA-jlSBQBIU9HKcCA2whAYGLIQz9Dy3RAAAPAA8oPwkKBzoyPSBknkN-w

That's my current build. I also tried rune of durability and warhorn. It really depends on what you are fighting.Same goes for healskill. If you don't meet many Condi builds, use the shout instead. Then you can consider the shout trait.

Interesting build, how do you perform when roaming? Very low armor and toughness must make things extra difficult to that range burst. You dont have much you can do about it. Add the limited access to mobility without running Travellers must be hard as well.

This is my build currently:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLRhG2JNiQ1mY5NgnNA9mYpXwmyaDh5V8TcKeFhGTFgAAA-jFDBQBuSJ4S1CwgTAQWUmBgjAAFOIAM8BAIo9H0nGBzo0APq/kIdBiCYrA-w

@Nimon.7840 said:Going into shroud will heal you for [1(swiftness)+1(retaliation)+1(stability)+5(might)]×172=1376

Placing down your well and standing inside of it, then going into shroud will give you even more heal.

That healing isnt too bad, though i run Blood Magic so Life leeching and condition consumption for like 21% Life Force is quite nice for me. Never really used Wells before, might have a look, I could drop Nothing Can Save You

@Nimon.7840 said:I'm not so happy with my sigills though. I really like having hydromancy on gs, but most of the times I go into shroud while having GS, and in shroud I wanna have sigill of strength. To have higher burst and more healing.

I use Draining/Bloodlust and Accuracy/Blood on mine (Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Warhorn) As i am not a fan of ones that can proc when i dont want them, such as when swapping into Reaper Shroud out of melee and such.

[Nimon.7840]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@pah.4931 said:The reason GS is so good for power reaper is because the alternatives are not good.

Does that not say something? It's basically the "best" of a bad bunch? :(

@pah.4931 said:Nightfall (#4) is one of the best abilities in the game (it's so good it makes Soul Eater worth taking in some cases)... Grasping Darkness (#5) is good and it's fun landing skill shots and in a world without 987875 stability access and 90987345 evade access and classes with extreme mobility with hardly any downside, it would be great. Death

You really think so? because i have used it and it been totally countered either by mindless boon application, constant teleports in and out and by the fact it has a 2second ICD kinda makes it meh against anyone that isnt asleep as its easy to get out of. Curious how Soul Eater makes it better?

Gs5 is good against someone AFK or fighting someone else. ANyone else unless they are nearly on top of you to begin with have a HUGE telegraph and a slow projectile like effect to avoid or dodge it. Yeah it would be great in that game, shame that isnt this game lol

@pah.4931 said:Spiral (#3) is OK; the vuln application is good, the LF generation is decent is good, and it's not hard to land. The AA and Gravedigger are both bad and get worse against better players. Which is weird, because Gravedigger is terrible design for PvE too (usually if something is lame in PvP it's because PvE... but GD is an anomaly).

Yeah Gs3 isnt too bad, could be better. Could be worse. Kinda says something as this would be a pretty bad skill for most classes. The damage is kinda meh at best and such but on Necro its considered pretty good. Yeah the AA has WAY too long a cast time to complete the chain, the damage is decent but other weapons do more damage, faster in my opinion. I would take lower dmaage and faster hits than a hard hititng slow attack that wont hit anyone. Gravedigger is prime example of whats wrong - looks flashy, looks cool but function wise its below par. Easy to avoid and pretty much only good to spam on downed people.

@pah.4931 said:BUT... staff is just for extra control and small poke damage and dagger is still not great... so Greatsword it is! If dagger ever gets the redesign it desperately needs, then you'd have a legit choice (axe / warhorn is too good for PvP). Until then... Greatsword it is!

Gods. I hate staff. So boring, easily the worst implementation of a staff weapon so far. Its just SO boring to use. I wish it was something like a Melee weapon, keep the effects and such such but remove the mindless and boring AoE mark aspect and it would be kinda decent

@Nimon.7840 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnc0Albi90A22A0bildBLOKmF3iUXhzQWAKqlACAA-jlSBQBIU9HKcCA2whAYGLIQz9Dy3RAAAPAA8oPwkKBzoyPSBknkN-w

That's my current build. I also tried rune of durability and warhorn. It really depends on what you are fighting.Same goes for healskill. If you don't meet many Condi builds, use the shout instead. Then you can consider the shout trait.

Interesting build, how do you perform when roaming? Very low armor and toughness must make things extra difficult to that range burst. You dont have much you can do about it. Add the limited access to mobility without running Travellers must be hard as well.

This is my build currently:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLRhG2JNiQ1mY5NgnNA9mYpXwmyaDh5V8TcKeFhGTFgAAA-jFDBQBuSJ4S1CwgTAQWUmBgjAAFOIAM8BAIo9H0nGBzo0APq/kIdBiCYrA-w

@Nimon.7840 said:Going into shroud will heal you for [1(swiftness)+1(retaliation)+1(stability)+5(might)]×172=1376

Placing down your well and standing inside of it, then going into shroud will give you even more heal.

That healing isnt too bad, though i run Blood Magic so Life leeching and condition consumption for like 21% Life Force is quite nice for me. Never really used Wells before, might have a look, I could drop Nothing Can Save You

@Nimon.7840 said:I'm not so happy with my sigills though. I really like having hydromancy on gs, but most of the times I go into shroud while having GS, and in shroud I wanna have sigill of strength. To have higher burst and more healing.

I use Draining/Bloodlust and Accuracy/Blood on mine (Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Warhorn) As i am not a fan of ones that can proc when i dont want them, such as when swapping into Reaper Shroud out of melee and such.

As far as I tested it's pretty good build.We'll you have 25k hp with this build. That already covers a lot of dmg.If you are fighting a good ranged enemy, it won't matter, if you have 2.2k armor or 3k.They will just kill you.

I came up with this build because I wanted to have heavy burst, while still having sustain.

I personally don't like blood magic. It doesn't offer enough.The first traits are all bad.Second traits only vampiric presence is goodAs for last ones, only unholy martyr is good. But: the minor passive traits suck.

Mark of evasion? No dmg and no real good sustainVampiric is way too low dmg and healingLast rites is useless.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Nimon.7840 said:As far as I tested it's pretty good build.We'll you have 25k hp with this build. That already covers a lot of dmg.If you are fighting a good ranged enemy, it won't matter, if you have 2.2k armor or 3k.They will just kill you.

I came up with this build because I wanted to have heavy burst, while still having sustain.

I personally don't like blood magic. It doesn't offer enough.The first traits are all bad.Second traits only vampiric presence is goodAs for last ones, only unholy martyr is good. But: the minor passive traits suck.

Mark of evasion? No dmg and no real good sustainVampiric is way too low dmg and healingLast rites is useless.

That is very true. Necro has too many counters to really worry about defense. Every class has builds that make killing ANY version of Necro rather easy. Blood Bond is rather good, it works with Signets of Suffering and gives you a decent heal when it procs as well, like 2-3k iirc. The only annoying thing, it can porc as people just use defense skills or go downed, wish it was unblockable or something. Yeah the leeching traits are a mixed bag but at least they work in Shroud and the Vampiric Presence does get buffed when you are in shroud. The minors are as you would expect - minor.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Gs4 And gs5 Is good but gs3 And gs2 Is rly hard to hit. I played staff Axe/wh.i Think Its JUST personal opinion. GS Is good if you have a party with you

The problem is, everyone knows to range spam the necro, i do wish that Gs4 was like an aura that destroyed projectiles on top of its current boon removal and blind and cripple application. Gs5 is okay. Quite easy to avoid though. Yeah i am thinking the same. It seems more of a group weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:It's honestly not even worth playing reaper without GS most of the time.

I would argue with this, theme wise i would agree. Gameplay wise i would disagree. It's not needed and in quite a few ways its a bad weapon, but it look so cool that its just disappointing.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Just don't try to use it to deal damage, and above all, do not try to make Gravedigger work. Use it for LF gen, CC, boon corruption, and utility/sustain and gap closing and interrupts via skill 5 and chaining with CttB. Your primary sources of damage are shroud and Ghastly Claws on MH Axe. Do not try for the third hit of the AA chain unless you know it'll land and have no better course of action. If you can get damage off with it, great. Otherwise, its slowness is going to just open you up to being killed.

Interesting. So you use it for Life Force Gen? Doesnt that kinda waste the potential damage? I mean it can hit hard. Its just not very well designed. This weapon would be PERFECT on say a warrior. A class that can take insane damage and shrug it off. Has insane mobility to keep in melee and such, on Necro which is VERY slow, easily kited, easily killed it just doesnt really work in a WvW/PvP setting.

Skills 1, 3, 5 all give LF and a lot of it. GS5's pull is one of the best weapon skills in the game in my opinion. It requires practice to use, but a high-power ranged AoE pull + chill is super, super strong. It's a ranged interrupt that can close a gap and is worth using any time your opponent tries to flee. I think part of the problem so many reapers have is that they let their opponents get out of range before trying to close the gap. As soon as your enemy starts running you should be dropping shroud to GS combo CC-lock them. Forward move -> 4 -> 5 -> 3 or Forward move -> 5 -> 3 -> 4 will lock most people down and can be followed up with a CttB which due to the boon removal on 4 will also stunlock, double chill, apply massive vuln, and enable AA's, gravediggers, or RShroud combos.

I don't use Axe. I kinda find it boring, I prefer Dagger/Warhorn for sustain, leeching, CC, mobility (kinda) and does decent damage and comes with boon hate and an immobilize. With Scepter/Dagger as my other set for ranged, boon corruption, Cripple, Condi transfer, good weakness application. Its only real kinda weakness is poor Life Force generation

Dagger has the best potential LF generation of all necro weapons but is the worst at actual combat imho. Axe's burst generation and massive ranged damage (it's basically ranger rapid fire) with combined ranged/AoE boon hate and vuln stacking have serious synergy with the reaper. Dagger's immobilize is too easily-cleansed by reaper's bad matchups, such as Thief/Daredevil (UC/Withdraw/IR/DS/RFI), ranger (WS Traits, LR), mirage (EM), and warrior (Resistance), making it more or less just a win-harder weapon into already-favorable melee matchups. With Axe, you have tremendous ranged power and much better anti-group play from Axe 3. Paired with OH dagger, it has double AoE corruption, AoE cripple, ranged AoE Weakness, single-target multi-hit ranged nukes, vuln stacking, AoE condi transfer, and ranged AoE blind. With Death's charge and Spectral Armor followed by Axe 2, reaper can out-trade a lot of ranged-heavy builds while also denying their combos via the projectile destruction Charge offers, while also gaining a ton of LF in the process.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:The best way to phrase how to use GS is the following:If you try to make GS a primary weapon for all situations, it will be terrible. If you play to its strengths and don't try to force its weaknesses to work, it's one of the best weapon choices on necromancer in general due to the sheer utility it offers, and easily is a substantial reason why reaper is playable.

I would agree with that the problem is, what are its strengths? It doesnt exactly do anything that other weapons cant already do. It has MANY more weaknesses than strengths. Slow, unreliable to hit, Gs4 and Gs5 are the best skills but easy to avoid. Combined with how slow Necro is you can just be easily kited with it equipped :(

As mentioned, it's a CC and utility weapon with heavy execution potential. It keeps foes engaged in melee and prevents escapes while harshly punishing ones that do stay with blinds/corrupts and leeching bolts whirl finisher with Soul Spiral, which deals siphon damage that ignores immunity effects like Signet of Stone and Endure Pain.

GS is a weapon that needs to be learned to be used to fully benefit from it. It's absolutely devastating if the full measure of its kit is utilized.

I think a lot of people also neglect to build any semblance of mobility on the reaper and don't understand why they get kited. Equip SotL and Signets of Suffering and stop taking the new complete garbage Speed of Shadows. I guarantee you'll perform way better. Incorruptable movespeed in and out of shroud is huge and only really justified ignoring if building BM wells for holding points in sPvP.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Skills 1, 3, 5 all give LF and a lot of it. GS5's pull is one of the best weapon skills in the game in my opinion. It requires practice to use, but a high-power ranged AoE pull + chill is super, super strong. It's a ranged interrupt that can close a gap and is worth using any time your opponent tries to flee. I think part of the problem so many reapers have is that they let their opponents get out of range before trying to close the gap. As soon as your enemy starts running you should be dropping shroud to GS combo CC-lock them. Forward move -> 4 -> 5 -> 3 or Forward move -> 5 -> 3 -> 4 will lock most people down and can be followed up with a CttB which due to the boon removal on 4 will also stunlock, double chill, apply massive vuln, and enable AA's, gravediggers, or RShroud combos.

yes it has lots of life force potential but with how low the auto attack is, you wont be landing many of them, Gs3 is possible and Gs5 is SO easy to avoid and dodge, huge tell and not very fast. Yes its great when you land it. The problem is you dont land it against most classes because they have simply got too much mobility, teleports and range for it to be a significant threat. It might lock most BAD players down. That is the key, only bad players get hit by it. Though that do, will have the stun breaks, teleports and such to get out of it before too much damage/punishment has been made. Also with the 2second ICD on Gs4, you have to time it perfectly for the pull to pull them in at the right time for a pulse of the boon removal and you forget, most classes can pump out boons like there is no tomorrow.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Dagger has the best potential LF generation of all necro weapons but is the worst at actual combat imho. Axe's burst generation and massive ranged damage (it's basically ranger rapid fire) with combined ranged/AoE boon hate and vuln stacking have serious synergy with the reaper. Dagger's immobilize is too easily-cleansed by reaper's bad matchups, such as Thief/Daredevil (UC/Withdraw/IR/DS/RFI), ranger (WS Traits, LR), mirage (EM), and warrior (Resistance), making it more or less just a win-harder weapon into already-favorable melee matchups. With Axe, you have tremendous ranged power and much better anti-group play from Axe 3. Paired with OH dagger, it has double AoE corruption, AoE cripple, ranged AoE Weakness, single-target multi-hit ranged nukes, vuln stacking, AoE condi transfer, and ranged AoE blind. With Death's charge and Spectral Armor followed by Axe 2, reaper can out-trade a lot of ranged-heavy builds while also denying their combos via the projectile destruction Charge offers, while also gaining a ton of LF in the process.

Dagger is great for Life Force due to the fast auto attacks. When combined with Warhorn Its VERY good for life force. popping Warhorn 5 and then going into Shroud. Can be very useful. Dagger does unfortunately have its issues. The Life Siphon skill just SUCKS. Like REALLY sucks. The mmob skill could also be much better. Axe Skill is basically a SHORTER range version. Against a Ranger. I know that i would go with the Rapid Fire over it every day of the week. It is good that it follows through stealth. Though once its ended. You dont really have much.

Any Ranged build that loses to a reaper or Scourge, is simply not very good. Ranger, Druid, Soulbeast, pretty much everyone with range will be at the advantage, high mobility, damage, sustain and everything else. They have it. Necro doesnt. Ranged Vs Ranged. Necro loses. That simple. When i play my Soulbeast, i find fighting Necros, Reaper and Scourge among the EASIEST fights. Stealth, Sustain, Knockback, Condi removal, burst damage from 1,500 ranage among other things are all what Necro is weak against.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:As mentioned, it's a CC and utility weapon with heavy execution potential. It keeps foes engaged in melee and prevents escapes while harshly punishing ones that do stay with blinds/corrupts and leeching bolts whirl finisher with Soul Spiral, which deals siphon damage that ignores immunity effects like Signet of Stone and Endure Pain.

GS is a weapon that needs to be learned to be used to fully benefit from it. It's absolutely devastating if the full measure of its kit is utilized.

I think a lot of people also neglect to build any semblance of mobility on the reaper and don't understand why they get kited. Equip SotL and Signets of Suffering and stop taking the new complete garbage Speed of Shadows. I guarantee you'll perform way better. Incorruptable movespeed in and out of shroud is huge and only really justified ignoring if building BM wells for holding points in sPvP.

CC weapon? Really? One EASY to avoid CC doesnt in my opinion make for a good CC weapon. Where is the utility? full melee, no mobility, easy to counter CC and the Skill 4 has many weaknesses and counters. The 2second ICD really hurts it for quick play. you could pull someone in and they could still get out before any boon removal. It doesnt keep anyone in melee. Its very slow. The chill on the auto attack means nothing as it wont land against anyone. How does it prevent escapes? with teleports and such being 9-1,200 range?

Greatsword is a weapon that should be on a class that can use it. Necro isn't that class. They are too slow. No real access to skills and such that can make it more viable like Quickness and such. Would be a solid weapon for Guardians and Warriors. Builds and classes that CAN stay in melee and be a tank even in full zerk gear. Necro isnt that class.

I personally am running Travelers. I wouldnt waste a Utility slot for movement speed. Of course it means you cant take Durability or anything but better that than losing a utility slot.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Whatever man, I've been at the top of reaper players like Eremite since the launch of the reaper and have had zero issues killing thieves and rangers solely due to GS. If you learn to use the weapon, it's the best choice on reaper.

You're also running triple melee on a class with limited mobility. It makes sense you're getting kited because you're doing nothing to actually address the fact you're slow and have no ranged pressure.

Have you considered flickering shroud charge (900 range) with it (~750 as it pulls from the back of the hitbox as well)?

There's so much denial about taking any semblance of investment for move speed being horrible and yet every other class does. SotL is even a very potent heal with the new trait and multiple targets AND deals damage that can't be negated.

Reaper's sustain is crap because of the degen nerfs but if you build for mobility and midrange play, it's not exactly like you're going to get kited extremely easily if you understand the matchups with classes and builds which kite, as you'll be able to negate their combos, punish them during their downtime, and make superior trades.

GS is only slow on its third AA chain and Gravedigger. Otherwise when you factor in precast/aftercast delays, it's not much slower than most other GS's, and like I said, AA and Gravedigger are the two worst parts of the weapon and shouldn't be attempted to make work. Skills 3-5 are what define GS.

Frankly, the most punishing matchups right now for reaper are spellbreaker and holosmith because they have sticking pressure and the ability to just dunk you in melee.

[Kiroshima.8497]

I really wish Gravedigger spawned a Rise Minion on hit or miss, instead of being a huge power damage dump with a reset. That would grant Reaper some much needed sustain through 33% damage absorption, with lots of combo opportunity in Death Magic (wow Death Magic could be "good").

Alternate Gravedigger:Strike enemies with your greatsword cloaked in necromantic energies, raising one Shambling Horror even if it misses. If an enemy struck is under 50%, their life energy fuels your minion raising abilities further, granting an additional Horror.Cast Time: 3/4Cooldown: 8Damage: 1.25 (minor damage reduction relative to new cast time and the unblockable skill fact)Health Threshold: 50%Num Minions: 1UNBLOCKABLERange: 180

Combine Death Nova for tons of damage. (1.25 + .75 isn't too bad especially since you get 1 minion guaranteed, striking targets under 50% grants 2 minions so that is 1.25 + 1.5, which isn't too much under the current 3.0 of gravedigger now, but with far more usability and utility thanks to the Shambling Horror and the cast time reduction).

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Whatever man, I've been at the top of reaper players like Eremite since the launch of the reaper and have had zero issues killing thieves and rangers solely due to GS. If you learn to use the weapon, it's the best choice on reaper.

You're also running triple melee on a class with limited mobility. It makes sense you're getting kited because you're doing nothing to actually address the fact you're slow and have no ranged pressure.

I am curious, You talking about PvP or WvW as with all the teleports, stealth, Range, CC and such Thieves should have an easy time. I mean, i have beaten bad thieves, its the good ones that KNOW what they are doing. They are the ones that can make it impossible to win. Triple melee? Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger currently, I wouldnt call that Melee, if i were to ever drop something for a Greatsword, it would be the Dagger/Warhorn as you need melee and ranged options.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Have you considered flickering shroud charge (900 range) with it (~750 as it pulls from the back of the hitbox as well)?

There's so much denial about taking any semblance of investment for move speed being horrible and yet every other class does. SotL is even a very potent heal with the new trait and multiple targets AND deals damage that can't be negated.

Do you mean Deaths Charge? Since when was that 900range movement? As its never felt like that and i am sure its like 4-500 range. Maybe 600. not too sure but its never felt like a 900 range skill. I would have rather it be a proper teleport skill. As its not very fast moving, doesnt go that far either.While the healing is good IF you're in a zerg or group, solo (which is what i prefer) its kinda wasted. A 1.7k (ish) heal on a 30second cool down isnt that great too me.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Reaper's sustain is crap because of the degen nerfs but if you build for mobility and midrange play, it's not exactly like you're going to get kited extremely easily if you understand the matchups with classes and builds which kite, as you'll be able to negate their combos, punish them during their downtime, and make superior trades.

Build for mobility? How so? Even with 25% movement speed, taking ALL the teleport/movement skills its still not as fast as others and thats ignoring that you have gone for FULL mobility and others are just using weapon skills and such for theirs. I am curious as to what your build is though. Mind sharing?

@DeceiverX.8361 said:GS is only slow on its third AA chain and Gravedigger. Otherwise when you factor in precast/aftercast delays, it's not much slower than most other GS's, and like I said, AA and Gravedigger are the two worst parts of the weapon and shouldn't be attempted to make work. Skills 3-5 are what define GS.

To complete the chain, its a near 3 second cast time. How many Dagger auto attacks could you get in during that time? Its not just the 3rd hit that is slow. All 3 of them are slow. It is in fact the SLOWEST Greatsword auto attack chain in the game, all others complete in at MOST half the time. This is of course not accounting for after cast or anything on auto attacks. Gravedigger has pretty much no use against anyone unless they are stuck in CC (unlikely) or they are downed.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Frankly, the most punishing matchups right now for reaper are spellbreaker and holosmith because they have sticking pressure and the ability to just dunk you in melee.

Too be fair, Spellbreaker doesn't really count as that affects EVERYONE due to how broken balanced they are. Holosmith for me has been hit and miss, won some. Lost others. The problem is. Necro has pretty much the worst staying power in the game. Can't go toe to toe with anyone due to all the blocks, invuls and such everyone else has.

[X T D.6458]

I used to run Power and Condi Reaper builds, both with GS. GS is still very viable especially after several buffs to power builds, but not for zerging. Reaper is a lot better for small group comps because it can dish out a ton of damage in a short amount of time, and GS is a great snare and spike weapon right before going for shroud bursts.

GS, with Axe/personal preference is always a good combo. Warhorn is a good choice if you like to camp shroud.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@X T D.6458 said:I used to run Power and Condi Reaper builds, both with GS. GS is still very viable especially after several buffs to power builds, but not for zerging. Reaper is a lot better for small group comps because it can dish out a ton of damage in a short amount of time, and GS is a great snare and spike weapon right before going for shroud bursts.

GS, with Axe/personal preference is always a good combo. Warhorn is a good choice if you like to camp shroud.

What about during Solo play? I prefer going solo. So no defense from others or anything.

[X T D.6458]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I used to run Power and Condi Reaper builds, both with GS. GS is still very viable especially after several buffs to power builds, but not for zerging. Reaper is a lot better for small group comps because it can dish out a ton of damage in a short amount of time, and GS is a great snare and spike weapon right before going for shroud bursts.

GS, with Axe/personal preference is always a good combo. Warhorn is a good choice if you like to camp shroud.

What about during Solo play? I prefer going solo. So no defense from others or anything.

You can, I used to solo with my builds and used them for zerging but this was pre PoF. The problem with going solo is all the regular issues necro faces like lack of mobility, stability, etc. Depending on what build you use you might not have enough cleanses and support to sustain yourself. These problems are not necessarily tied to using a gs, just regular necro disadvantages.

Personally I say Reaper is a lot stronger in small groups because it can get more sustain support that allows it to focus on damage.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@X T D.6458 said:You can, I used to solo with my builds and used them for zerging but this was pre PoF. The problem with going solo is all the regular issues necro faces like lack of mobility, stability, etc. Depending on what build you use you might not have enough cleanses and support to sustain yourself. These problems are not necessarily tied to using a gs, just regular necro disadvantages.

Personally I say Reaper is a lot stronger in small groups because it can get more sustain support that allows it to focus on damage.

Yeah. Thats the problem. I much prefer solo than going in groups :(

[DeceiverX.8361]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Whatever man, I've been at the top of reaper players like Eremite since the launch of the reaper and have had zero issues killing thieves and rangers solely due to GS. If you learn to use the weapon, it's the best choice on reaper.

You're also running triple melee on a class with limited mobility. It makes sense you're getting kited because you're doing nothing to actually address the fact you're slow and have no ranged pressure.

I am curious, You talking about PvP or WvW as with all the teleports, stealth, Range, CC and such Thieves should have an easy time. I mean, i have beaten bad thieves, its the good ones that KNOW what they are doing. They are the ones that can make it impossible to win. Triple melee? Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger currently, I wouldnt call that Melee, if i were to ever drop something for a Greatsword, it would be the Dagger/Warhorn as you need melee and ranged options.

Both. I primarily play WvW and don't have many problems with thieves. I've played thief for several thousand hours and understand its nuances fully. It's not a favorable matchup and they can run away if they burn everything, but it gives me a reset too, and as a reaper, the cooldowns are way lower than the thief's should they come for a re-engage. If you struggle fighting thieves: Play one. The class unless played by legitimate pro-level players is easy to shut down if you learn how it needs to be played. My dueling partners were typically top-50 or higher rank, and despite my thief game being near flawless for what it is, my reaper was always the more menacing thing to fight.

Also, why scepter? Further, if you're playing condi bleed, that's why you're not doing well. Reaper demands power for viability now. Griever's is an option but that's mostly a troll alt I have which I don't remember the build for. Condi was way overtuned with the previous Deathly Chill, but it's too weak now because chill is too difficult to proc. If you're using scepter for boon corruption, GS is better and you can just use A/D or A/F + GS for better corruption and synergy. Otherwise, condi necro should probably just be played as core or scourge.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Have you considered flickering shroud charge (900 range) with it (~750 as it pulls from the back of the hitbox as well)?

There's so much denial about taking any semblance of investment for move speed being horrible and yet every other class does. SotL is even a very potent heal with the new trait and multiple targets AND deals damage that can't be negated.

Do you mean Deaths Charge? Since when was that 900range movement? As its never felt like that and i am sure its like 4-500 range. Maybe 600. not too sure but its never felt like a 900 range skill. I would have rather it be a proper teleport skill. As its not very fast moving, doesnt go that far either.While the healing is good IF you're in a zerg or group, solo (which is what i prefer) its kinda wasted. A 1.7k (ish) heal on a 30second cool down isnt that great too me.

Yes, flickering death shroud for Death's Charge. Its tooltip is wrong. It's much further than listed and the hitbox at the end is absolutely massive. Test it out by AA'ing with axe at max range. Charge will get you there.The cooldown is 6s in shroud or 10s out of shroud just because of the nerfs to SoS. Shadowstep is 50s If thief is using IArrow, it's not damaging you and gains a +6s global cooldown on its actual damage sources which has parity to Charge meaning it can't follow through if it disengages. F1 -> 2 -> midair F1 animation cancel -> 5 will pull from 1200 on shadowstep as well.

I mostly play solo. SoTL heals per target, so with multiple targets, you'll heal more. It also works on mesmer clones, ranger pets, necro minions, gyros, ambients, etc. It's literally a second heal in 1vX which is why I prioritize it over Traveler runes. With five targets it's an 8k heal thanks to the recent buffs. Wit three it's still a 5k heal. Those numbers are no joke, and if it buys time to survive into shroud again with the SoS shroud cooldown nerfs, the cooldowns refresh faster while in shroud which will help for recasts and sustained fights if you're desperate. In 1v1, it shouldn't be necessary and is a last-ditch effort kind of thing. The mobility is generally more important.

Again, most of the thief matchup is understanding the thief. The class becomes pretty easy to fight except maybe S/D core running Instant Reflexes just because passive invulns suck to deal with on reaper as a whole.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Reaper's sustain is crap because of the degen nerfs but if you build for mobility and midrange play, it's not exactly like you're going to get kited extremely easily if you understand the matchups with classes and builds which kite, as you'll be able to negate their combos, punish them during their downtime, and make superior trades.

Build for mobility? How so? Even with 25% movement speed, taking ALL the teleport/movement skills its still not as fast as others and thats ignoring that you have gone for FULL mobility and others are just using weapon skills and such for theirs. I am curious as to what your build is though. Mind sharing?

Again, the movespeed from SotL and timing your Death's Charges is all you actually need. Per cast, the cooldown on death's charge is very high up on the mobility benchmarks in a sustained fight. Axe 2 gives you the extra edge you need for ranged pressure if they try to kite, and GS is the anti-kite combo tool that punishes re-engages as well.

Considering I no longer play, here: It's pretty much fully-optimized.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMba2kab02Y5myNxyGlNQvpeTL4CGUbKAsAoODthnVcWsLWGB-j1CBQBB4EAwgDFwlUHhRKBHpSoso8JP6bi2+DA4JGoQVO4wBQ4bQAwkiqWVpqqqECQwYA-w

Again, it's about covering bases. Running triple melee, you're going to suck into anything with range and kiting potential since you can't apply pressure in your movement downtime. Running Staff + GS, you're going to suck because you're too slow at everything. With A/x and D/x, you have no good utility. A/D + GS is the best source of utility and covering your weaknesses.

I'd like for more weapons to be good, but this is a problem on every class. It's why my thief game isn't as amazing as my reaper's: I play D/D power and thus by default have unwinnable matchups. It's why I left the game.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:GS is only slow on its third AA chain and Gravedigger. Otherwise when you factor in precast/aftercast delays, it's not much slower than most other GS's, and like I said, AA and Gravedigger are the two worst parts of the weapon and shouldn't be attempted to make work. Skills 3-5 are what define GS.

To complete the chain, its a near 3 second cast time. How many Dagger auto attacks could you get in during that time? Its not just the 3rd hit that is slow. All 3 of them are slow. It is in fact the SLOWEST Greatsword auto attack chain in the game, all others complete in at MOST half the time. This is of course not accounting for after cast or anything on auto attacks. Gravedigger has pretty much no use against anyone unless they are stuck in CC (unlikely) or they are downed.

Right. I never said that GS's AA was good, though. Quite the contrary, I said trying to make it deal damage will make you immediately lose any fight you're in.

It's proportionally the hardest-hitting GS AA in the game per cast. The first hit alone deals 22% more damage than Guardian's, 30% more than warrior's, and over 50% more than ranger's (better than ranger GS across the board). If you get two off, the damage comparison by coefficients is 2.3 (necro) vs 1.6 (guardian) vs 1.65 (warrior) vs 1.44 (ranger).

Most of the GS chain's speed costs come from Chilling Scythe which from the damage dealing portion of FT to the end of CS takes almost two full seconds due to CS's painfully long pre-cast and aftercast animations. There's no reason to use the third hit of the AA; it's garbage. I said this in my original post. The first two combined are close to a backstab from a thief. Like I also said, there's no sense in complaining about the speed of greatsword by talking about gravedigger. Gravedigger is also not what even factors into my argument about what makes GS good. GS is a utility weapon like shortbow is for thief. And yet shortbow on thief is what carries the profession most of the time. People need to stop trying to force super slow animation to deal big damage in the PvP environments. It's like trying to utilize Cluster Bomb as a primary source of damage; it doesn't work, but it can work when the context demands it. Same with GS's casts. It does massive damage when you can slip the hit in. Otherwise it's worth moving to something else. But unlike thief's shortbow, it's still got more than one good ability, and slipping the one-off AA in is easy to do. GS is extremely strong as a weapon, just not as as weapon you can camp. Shroud for melee AA's, Axe for range burst/engage utility, GS for melee utility/defense and closing gaps with burst LF generation. GS can force an issue unlike any other necro weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Frankly, the most punishing matchups right now for reaper are spellbreaker and holosmith because they have sticking pressure and the ability to just dunk you in melee.

Too be fair, Spellbreaker doesn't really count as that affects EVERYONE due to how broken balanced they are. Holosmith for me has been hit and miss, won some. Lost others. The problem is. Necro has pretty much the worst staying power in the game. Can't go toe to toe with anyone due to all the blocks, invuls and such everyone else has.

Which was kind of my point - it's potent into most things. Reaper feels bad only because they overdid the damage and degen making it feel very binary and struggle into things that can just tank it while dealing damage back which cannot be CC'ed because it has no real sustain except to control its foe. It's not so much range it struggles with so much as it is peoples' ability to just sit there and be invincible because it's on such a short clock to get a kill, especially if being pressured back. Frankly, I'd revert the LF changes patch from pre-PoF entirely because it just hurt matchups and being a human beyblade really isn't fun.

[Swagger.1459]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

GS is terrible on reaper for roaming. Use it in melee zerg bombs or dueling for fun if you're bored.

[Brujeria.7536]

Yes, greatsword is just Eyecandy. Its too sluggish for roaming. For zerging îts ok you sometimes can pull people with 5 if they dont pay attention in the effect overload. Skill 4 is unreliable because of its 2 second pulses, if it would pulse each second and count as a well it would be a good skill. Skill 3 could use a buff in form of an teleport attached.

[Nimon.7840]

@X T D.6458 said:I used to run Power and Condi Reaper builds, both with GS. GS is still very viable especially after several buffs to power builds, but not for zerging. Reaper is a lot better for small group comps because it can dish out a ton of damage in a short amount of time, and GS is a great snare and spike weapon right before going for shroud bursts.

GS, with Axe/personal preference is always a good combo. Warhorn is a good choice if you like to camp shroud.

If you want burst dmg, play core guard or ranger.Core guard is just 10 times better than reaper because of higher burst and higher mobility and higher sustain and it can offer group support while the only group support corenec and reaper do is that all enemies with a brain will focus you because you have literally no defense. And while they do this they don't hit your allies

[Nimon.7840]

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yes, greatsword is just Eyecandy. Its too sluggish for roaming. For zerging îts ok you sometimes can pull people with 5 if they dont pay attention in the effect overload. Skill 4 is unreliable because of its 2 second pulses, if it would pulse each second and count as a well it would be a good skill. Skill 3 could use a buff in form of an teleport attached.

Or a leap. Leap and then drill would be perfect