WvW: Greatsword....Viable!?

[Nimon.7840]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

GS is terrible on reaper for roaming. Use it in melee zerg bombs or dueling for fun if you're bored.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

GS is terrible on reaper for roaming. Use it in melee zerg bombs or dueling for fun if you're bored.

What do you want to switch out for GS?

Staff? Does no dmg on power and it's not worth to take it and ease 1 trait just for that weapon

Dagger? You do realize that this is maybe the worst of all weapons for PvP?Casting Dagger 2 is like asking to be interrupted for free and you even need to face to the opponent when starting to cast it.Dagger 3 has way to long casttime for such little effect.

Scepter? On power reaper? Hahaha

There is no real other option than GS. (Taking axe/something for second set)

[X T D.6458]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I used to run Power and Condi Reaper builds, both with GS. GS is still very viable especially after several buffs to power builds, but not for zerging. Reaper is a lot better for small group comps because it can dish out a ton of damage in a short amount of time, and GS is a great snare and spike weapon right before going for shroud bursts.

GS, with Axe/personal preference is always a good combo. Warhorn is a good choice if you like to camp shroud.

If you want burst dmg, play core guard or ranger.Core guard is just 10 times better than reaper because of higher burst and higher mobility and higher sustain and it can offer group support while the only group support corenec and reaper do is that all enemies with a brain will focus you because you have literally no defense. And while they do this they don't hit your allies

Well like I said I used Reaper pre-Pof, it is not something I would use now because it does not fit my playstyle. However with that being said, if you run with a dedicated small team with a good comp, Reaper can still pump out a ton of burst damage.

[X T D.6458]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

GS is terrible on reaper for roaming. Use it in melee zerg bombs or dueling for fun if you're bored.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, i am loving playing Reaper and the main reason i even made one was for the Greatsword, it looks awesome like a Dark Knight sort of thing, except. Reaper was meant to be a slow but unstoppable (within reason...) killing machine which we all know was totally wrong but can the Greatsword work in WvW? Especially with roaming, i just feel that its FAR too slow with Necro being so insanely slow in movement and everything, the last thing they should use is a VERY slow attacking weapon. Everyone else is like The Flash when it comes to Necro mobility with all the teleports, rushes and everything else making it kinda unviable? Of course in zergs and blobs it should be fine. Charging through the downed mowing them down but i do like my roaming as well :(

So, my question: Can Greatsword be viable? What builds/sigil combos would you suggest to make the most of it. Currently i am running Dagger/Warhorn and Scepter/Dagger. More of a hybrid, leaning towards Power but i have decent condi damage for scepter and my boon corrupts to be more helpful.

GS is terrible on reaper for roaming. Use it in melee zerg bombs or dueling for fun if you're bored.

What do you want to switch out for GS?

Staff? Does no dmg on power and it's not worth to take it and ease 1 trait just for that weapon

Dagger? You do realize that this is maybe the worst of all weapons for PvP?Casting Dagger 2 is like asking to be interrupted for free and you even need to face to the opponent when starting to cast it.Dagger 3 has way to long casttime for such little effect.

Scepter? On power reaper? Hahaha

There is no real other option than GS. (Taking axe/something for second set)

Dont camp GS, you only use it for a few skills to setup a shroud burst.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

Its very interesting how some say its good, others say its trash. Kind of says something about the weapon. It doesnt seem to have a well defined and built up role in combat. I can defo see it being solid in group/zerg gameplay where you can (in zergs) just mash attacks as you swarm through the blob, Dagger works really well due to the fast attacks as does Reaper of course.

However, i am a roamer at heart. More fun. Less reliant on others for kills. This is the most important area. You can make ANY weapon set and ANY build work in a blob. This is where Staff works so well - Ranged + AoE = Tags, Tags, Tags. The problem is. I am not interested in just tagging something from range in group fights and in any other situation i find staff SO boring.

So, the consensus seems to be:

Roaming Solo: God no.Roaming Group: SolidZergs: SolidGroups: Solid

[Warkind.6745]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:Its very interesting how some say its good, others say its trash. Kind of says something about the weapon. It doesnt seem to have a well defined and built up role in combat. I can defo see it being solid in group/zerg gameplay where you can (in zergs) just mash attacks as you swarm through the blob, Dagger works really well due to the fast attacks as does Reaper of course.

However, i am a roamer at heart. More fun. Less reliant on others for kills. This is the most important area. You can make ANY weapon set and ANY build work in a blob. This is where Staff works so well - Ranged + AoE = Tags, Tags, Tags. The problem is. I am not interested in just tagging something from range in group fights and in any other situation i find staff SO boring.

So, the consensus seems to be:

Roaming Solo: God no.Roaming Group: SolidZergs: SolidGroups: Solid

If you use it in conjunction with a set like axe/X and keep track of your enemies damage negation, greatsword is as viable for solo play as any other necro build.

It's sure not easy, but roaming on necro is already a pain in the ***.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Warkind.6745 said:If you use it in conjunction with a set like axe/X and keep track of your enemies damage negation, greatsword is as viable for solo play as any other necro build.

It's sure not easy, but roaming on necro is already a pain in the ***.

So with it already being a pain in the ass, is it worth taking a weapon that has huge tells on its decent skills, long ICD on others, no mobility, slow auto attacks and everything else :/

Maybe if the trait was buffed to give more health per a second, maybe even a ranged damage reduction and such so that it actually FITS with the theme that they seemingly wanted - slow, unstoppable.

[Warkind.6745]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:If you use it in conjunction with a set like axe/X and keep track of your enemies damage negation, greatsword is as viable for solo play as any other necro build.

It's sure not easy, but roaming on necro is already a pain in the ***.

So with it already being a pain in the kitten, is it worth taking a weapon that has huge tells on its decent skills, long ICD on others, no mobility, slow auto attacks and everything else :/

Maybe if the trait was buffed to give more health per a second, maybe even a ranged damage reduction and such so that it actually FITS with the theme that they seemingly wanted - slow, unstoppable.

I think it is. The alternative power melee weapon for me would be dagger, which I don't feel really solves the main problem of getting kited. I don't really expect damage from the autoattack so much as I expected people to dodge it and waste endurance. The way I see it, opponents generally have less ways to get out of damage in melee than I have ways to deal it. Once they're out, greatsword could have all the cast time in the world and they're still going to eat 12 stacks of vulnerability or a pull.

I mean, yeah it doesn't always work out so perfectly in game but it's usually my fault as a player for mistiming skills or just straight up sucking.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Warkind.6745 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:If you use it in conjunction with a set like axe/X and keep track of your enemies damage negation, greatsword is as viable for solo play as any other necro build.

It's sure not easy, but roaming on necro is already a pain in the ***.

So with it already being a pain in the kitten, is it worth taking a weapon that has huge tells on its decent skills, long ICD on others, no mobility, slow auto attacks and everything else :/

Maybe if the trait was buffed to give more health per a second, maybe even a ranged damage reduction and such so that it actually FITS with the theme that they seemingly wanted - slow, unstoppable.

I think it is. The alternative power melee weapon for me would be dagger, which I don't feel really solves the main problem of getting kited. I don't really expect damage from the autoattack so much as I expected people to dodge it and waste endurance. The way I see it, opponents generally have less ways to get out of damage in melee than I have ways to deal it. Once they're out, greatsword could have all the cast time in the world and they're still going to eat 12 stacks of vulnerability or a pull.

I mean, yeah it doesn't always work out so perfectly in game but it's usually my fault as a player for mistiming skills or just straight up sucking.

See, you understand.

GS needs to be used to play into the weakness of reaper. People whine about being kited when GS if used intelligently negates kiting quite well and punishes melee hard.

Staff is junk. Scepter is junk on power which is what reaper does best. Dagger does nothing better than GS per unit of time except generate LF by AA'ing over and over, which doesn't happen in the PvP modes.

GS could still maybe use some improvements to round out some consistency - GS5 on the ammo system for 2 charges would be awesome- but it's still one of the necromancer's best weapons and can be the keystone to making sol play on reaper work.

People just can't camp it expecting to get kills with AA and gravedigger, especially if playing without movespeed. The strength of the weapon is its utility and combo-capabilities with RShroud.

Tbh, GS is worst in large group settings. Better off playing staff for the cleaving LF on autos and safer bag tagging.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

^spoton mate.

[KrHome.1920]

For solo PvP/WvW:

• GS + Axe/Wh + Spectral Grasp - good
• GS + Axe/Focus + Spectral Walk - good(Speed of Shadows mandatory in both variants for perma swiftness and soft CC removal)

Every other weapon combo - bad

Reasons:

• terrible mobility and range leads to becoming a sitting duck to every other class and spec - even scourge!
• dagger mainhand hits like a wet noodle and has no useful synergies
• staff on a power build is just laughable in terms of everything

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

People say about using the weapon right, in specific situations and such - but why? Wasnt this game meant to be play YOUR way how many other weapons in the game have so many limitations on how and when to use it? when compared to other Greatswords in the, they can all be used in pretty much any build or situations or anything else. This is partly because of one thing: Mobility. The weapons have mobility skills on them, on classes that have MANY teleports, charges, leap skills and such to make sure they are on someone 100% of the time. This is something that is VERY much lacking on the Greatsword for the Necro and Necro in general when it comes to mobility.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:People say about using the weapon right, in specific situations and such - but why? Wasnt this game meant to be play YOUR way how many other weapons in the game have so many limitations on how and when to use it? when compared to other Greatswords in the, they can all be used in pretty much any build or situations or anything else. This is partly because of one thing: Mobility. The weapons have mobility skills on them, on classes that have MANY teleports, charges, leap skills and such to make sure they are on someone 100% of the time. This is something that is VERY much lacking on the Greatsword for the Necro and Necro in general when it comes to mobility.

There's a difference between being able to beat PvE content (the original claims to "play your way" in GW2 by allowing people not to depend on specific classes/builds to level up/get gear), and understanding how to use a specific weapon in a PvP environment.

The GS is a good weapon. It may not do what you want it to do, but what you want it to do is different from the intent of the design of the weapon and how to make it useful in a PvP context.

It's like saying you want to play an assassination burst thief but using S/D. That's just not how it works. The other classes have some mobility on their respective weapons because the goal is to close a gap. GS has an amazing gap close through Grasp and can chain CC via RShroud3 and CttB as well on top of any corruption chosen in other weapons or traits.

Mobility coming from a lot of the professions, like the thief, is also its primary defense. Is it overdone since PoF? Absolutely. But that's not a fault of the necro or reaper; complain about those issues in their respective professions. The endless arms race of powercreep is stupid and needs to stop. Unlike these other classes, Necro has LF to let it straight-up tank hits and punish back in the meantime. I can take full-combos from other professions while making major trades into their health and resources. My LF expires, and I regen it faster than they can heal and recover their cooldowns. if they stay in melee, I punish them with GS4 by killing their boons and denying them attacks from pulsing blinds and can slip in some serious damage from 25-might-empowered AA's from GSAA1/2. With something like Chill of Death traited, they either disengage or die by this point. I can then pull them back with GS5 and follow up with a GD to force more resources for a stunbreak/defensive invuln, or they die. If they take the former, I can swap weapons to Axe and GC to recover more LF, corrupt their last stand on boons if they try to stay using Axe 3, punish their dodge rolls and boons with OH dagger 5 from corrupt + weakness, and re-engage with shroud via RShroud2 and repeat this chain of punishment. I do not need mobility unless I let my opponent flee. But that's okay even if they do. They can disengage and try me again. I'll still have Spectral Armor for defense and LF generation and my own cooldowns will be reset, too.

If you want a mobile GS damage dealer, go play warrior, because superior mobility is literally part of its class description, which is accomplished solely on GS. The necromancer plays around controlling a fight. Reaper and its GS take this to an extreme of punishing your opponent's weaknesses rather than slowly bleeding them out and taking over. If you're looking for some kind of anime-style swordsmanship skills where slash slash tons of super-fast damage with huge weapons is what you're after, you're in the wrong class entirely.

The weapon is damned good if you learn to use it. If you don't want to do that, fine, but do not complain the weapon is bad and that the reaper can't do things when GS is one of the primary reasons reaper can even be playable.

[velocity.4621]

don't listen to those tells you how to play, you like GS? use it, and most importantly, THIS....try to find a way for it to be useful, where it has advantages, weaknesses, once you find it, exploit that advantage, based on your playstyle!....simple as that, i don't use it simply because i don't like the way human female wield a GS... :p

[DeceiverX.8361]

@velocity.4621 said:don't listen to those tells you how to play, you like GS? use it, and most importantly, THIS....try to find a way for it to be useful, where it has advantages, weaknesses, once you find it, exploit that advantage, based on your playstyle!....simple as that, i don't use it simply because i don't like the way human female wield a GS... :p

That's kind of the point I'm making, though.

The GS isn't usable if you try to make it do what it's bad at. If you try to play around AA3 and Gravedigger, you'll never win a fight.

The GS is amazing if you play to the strengths and design of the weapon. If there's a refusal to do so, your mileage in PvP/WvW will be quite poor. If the goal is to be a mobile gs warrior, necro does not accomplish this because it was not designed to. Warrior does.

As I said, it's like wanting to play S/D thief as a burst assassin claiming the kit is weak because it doesn't get results. It doesn't work. You can either opt to take the playstyle adjustment focusing on evasion staying on S/D, or switch to D/X to achieve the playstyle goal sought after.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@velocity.4621 said:don't listen to those tells you how to play, you like GS? use it, and most importantly, THIS....try to find a way for it to be useful, where it has advantages, weaknesses, once you find it, exploit that advantage, based on your playstyle!....simple as that, i don't use it simply because i don't like the way human female wield a GS... :p

That's kind of the point I'm making, though.

The GS isn't usable if you try to make it do what it's bad at. If you try to play around AA3 and Gravedigger, you'll never win a fight.

The GS is amazing if you play to the strengths and design of the weapon. If there's a refusal to do so, your mileage in PvP/WvW will be quite poor. If the goal is to be a mobile gs warrior, necro does not accomplish this because it was not designed to. Warrior does.

As I said, it's like wanting to play S/D thief as a burst assassin claiming the kit is weak because it doesn't get results. It doesn't work. You can either opt to take the playstyle adjustment focusing on evasion staying on S/D, or switch to D/X to achieve the playstyle goal sought after.

The problem with that is, Sword/Dagger CAN work for Thief, it can dish out insane damage. Its not a weapon that has a HUGE niche and is VERY easily countered with VERY slow attacks, a AoE that has an insane ICD and a pull that has a huge tell.

[DeceiverX.8361]

And GS not only can work for reaper but it carries reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

[Brujeria.7536]

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:And GS not only can work for reaper but it carries reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

You cant win against a good thief with greatsword, period. Also, in combination with reaper shroud its impossible to close a gap or prevent a thief from disenganging, reaper shroud 2 is so slow, a thief can be miles away the second you finish your charge. Of course you could cancel it early, but then you are stuck with a 10 second cooldown of reaper shroud and you get wrecked by any thief build, really, as this leaves you only with axe+X which isnt nearly enough pressure or damage to win, the thief just needs to dodge axe 2 and he is going to win the fight. Even if a thief disengages, you wont have much lifeforce left. Lifeforce generation is, for the most part connected to hitting foes. You wont hit a good thief very often. He can disengage at will and you loose your lifeforce over time, spectral armor isnt going to help, again, shadowstep, shortbow 5, wait 5 seconds, re-engage

Also the build you posted earlier is clearly not good or in any form reasonable, you cant go to town with such low amount of condi clears ever, not in this meta, not since the release of HoT.

Overall the lack of mobility and reasonable speed for greatsword is not only the biggest offender offensive wise, but also defensive wise. Decent spellbreakers will eat you alive, as skill 4 is just a easy way to proc their fullcounter and you dont have the mobility to get away while they are in their stances. In terms of general necro gameplay you just dont have enough "big" skills to force out the dodges and defensive cooldowns of any class. Dagger 2 will be dodged, yes, apart from that youre blank. Reaper shroud will be countered by a shadowstep / leap / port , depending on the class, the skill 4 and 5 in shroud (should you use them) will be blocked. IF you swap to greatsword, the only really "dangerous" skill is greatsword 5, if you miss with it because well, the enemy has more than enough dodges left, have fun the next 10 seconds while a thief / ranger / X harasses you with any ranged weapon.

Its not impossible to beat even a good thief, if he makes a big mistake, overextends or whatever, but this chance of success is bound primarely to the skill of the thief, not to the skill of the necro.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:And GS not only can work for reaper but it carries reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

It 100% does not carry Necro. Its concept is flawed. That is the problem. A VERY slow weapon in every aspect, on all its abilities in a world of everyone being faster, having better mobility, everyone having teleports, blocks and countless invuls. The weapon might work for PvE but PvP? WvW? Nope. Groups, Zergs where you just have to bash away at downed players maybe. However, against fighting against people. Everyone has the mobility to kite the slowest class in the game, which also happens to be the easiest class to interrupt as most of their skills have a little too long a cast time considering the very low access to stability effects.

It doesn't really matter the damage was reduced by 25% with its evades, teleports, stuns and such all built in. On a class that can SO easily disengage. Simply put: Any thief that gets caught by a Necro is a bad thief. Nothing else. Though i see plenty of Sword/Pistol Thieves, easy interrupt skills. Blinds, Blinds, Blinds. Teleports. Cripples and weakness on auto attacks.

Its a PvE weapon. No doubt about it. It works in a game mode where the targets barely move and dont dodge. Where you can pretty much face tank most things and still be fine. This is the OPPOSITE of WvW and PvP. Where everything is more mobile, has more ranged, more sustain, more burst, Blocks, Invuls, stealth and everything else it makes it a much weaker weapon.

I cant remember the last time i died to a Reaper in WvW, even longer since i saw a roamer Reaper with a Greatsword. Though if you have a 1minute fight and use the sword for like 5seconds in that fight, it kinda says something about the weapon. For a weapon to "carry" someone it needs to be the threat when using it. If most of your damage comes from Shroud or Axe then its not really the Greatsword that is carrying you?

[Nimon.7840]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:And GS not only

can

work for reaper but it

carries

reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight

if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

It 100% does not carry Necro. Its concept is flawed. That is the problem. A VERY slow weapon in every aspect, on all its abilities in a world of everyone being faster, having better mobility, everyone having teleports, blocks and countless invuls. The weapon might work for PvE but PvP? WvW? Nope. Groups, Zergs where you just have to bash away at downed players maybe. However, against fighting against people. Everyone has the mobility to kite the slowest class in the game, which also happens to be the easiest class to interrupt as most of their skills have a little too long a cast time considering the very low access to stability effects.

It doesn't really matter the damage was reduced by 25% with its evades, teleports, stuns and such all built in. On a class that can SO easily disengage. Simply put: Any thief that gets caught by a Necro is a bad thief. Nothing else. Though i see plenty of Sword/Pistol Thieves, easy interrupt skills. Blinds, Blinds, Blinds. Teleports. Cripples and weakness on auto attacks.

Its a PvE weapon. No doubt about it. It works in a game mode where the targets barely move and dont dodge. Where you can pretty much face tank most things and still be fine. This is the OPPOSITE of WvW and PvP. Where everything is more mobile, has more ranged, more sustain, more burst, Blocks, Invuls, stealth and everything else it makes it a much weaker weapon.

I cant remember the last time i died to a Reaper in WvW, even longer since i saw a roamer Reaper with a Greatsword. Though if you have a 1minute fight and use the sword for like 5seconds in that fight, it kinda says something about the weapon. For a weapon to "carry" someone it needs to be the threat when using it. If most of your damage comes from Shroud or Axe then its not really the Greatsword that is carrying you?

I don't think the last part is true. And not every weapon has to have carry potential.I think especially in 1v1 and 1v2 GS is the best option as second weapon set.Because stuff sucks and doesn't give you any other reward than wasting a trait for generation lifeforce.

The only thing staff gets good is when you are a master player and can place the fear mark exactly when thief's dodge ends.Then it's useful, but I don't take a weapon for such a small niche.

And even if I only use my GS for 5+4 that already might bait out 2 enemy dodges and you have some threatening attacks afterwards, while enemy can't dodge anymore.Enemy used 2 dodges? CttB into shroud into 5+4 or only 4.Sure GS was only there for 2 skills, but they kinda guaranteed that you hit those other cc's or your dmg.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

4 & 5 are decent but 'Speed up tht flippn GS AA Anet, for the love of god. Throw us a bone.

[KrHome.1920]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:And GS not only

can

work for reaper but it

carries

reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight

if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

You cant win against a good thief with greatsword, period.You can't with greatsword

equipped

- true! When I fight good thieves I leave my second weaponset alone. Axe/X and shroud (=the entering burst) is the only viable strategy. But it's enough on berserk gear. After dagger and sword auto nerf thieves can't punish you as hard as in the past for running full berserk. This really changed a lot for glass-reapers.

The other thing is spectral grasp in melee range. Since spectral grasp can be casted without facing the target, this is the de facto shroud burst setup against thieves (no stability and usually not blocking at the opening burst).

Thief jumps at you, you start to move, thief stays on you while auto attacking, spectral grasp in melee (basically a knockdown) -> F1 -> 10k burst -> shadowstep -> /wave emote to thief

Also, in combination with reaper shroud its impossible to close a gap or prevent a thief from disenganging,True, but no other class can catch a thief that don't want to fight, so what...

you are stuck with a 10 second cooldown of reaper shroud and you get wrecked by any thief buildIt depends when this happens...

really, as this leaves you only with axe+X which isnt nearly enough pressure or damage to win, the thief just needs to dodge axe 2 and he is going to win the fight. Even if a thief disengages, you wont have much lifeforce left. Lifeforce generation is, for the most part connected to hitting foes. You wont hit a good thief very often. He can disengage at will and you loose your lifeforce over time, spectral armor isnt going to help, again, shadowstep, shortbow 5, wait 5 seconds, re-engageA thief swapping to shortbow is bound to it for 10 seconds and SB5 costs a huge amout of ressources. When a thief swaps to SB and uses SB5, I run in the opposite direction, because coming back will cost him most of his initiative. This buys me a significant amount of time. The way you describe the matchup it sounds like a thief can do everything at everytime. That's not true.

A reaper can outplay a thief in such a way, that the thief is not able to reengage (without making himself extremely vulnerable) when the reaper leaves shroud.

Also the build you posted earlier is clearly not good or in any form reasonable, you cant go to town with such low amount of condi clears ever, not in this meta, not since the release of HoT.True. This build would also not work for me and I highly doubt for any other player against a competent opponent.

In terms of general necro gameplay you just dont have enough "big" skills to force out the dodges and defensive cooldowns of any class.What? The opposite is true.

Dagger 2 will be dodged, yes, apart from that youre blank. Reaper shroud will be countered by a shadowstep / leap / port , depending on the class, the skill 4 and 5 in shroud (should you use them) will be blocked. IF you swap to greatsword, the only really "dangerous" skill is greatsword 5, if you miss with it because well, the enemy has more than enough dodges left, have fun the next 10 seconds while a thief / ranger / X harasses you with any ranged weapon.Yep, any viable reaper build is built around shroud bursting as it's instant cast and has multiple effects (damage, CC, corrupt, selfheal). Reaper demands to know when this burst will have its maximum effect.

I tried tons of non shroud burst builds. None of them worked. You need that burst to survive the 10s cooldown because you have to put your target in a defense position. That's why it is key to not enter shroud at the opening burst of your target and to force a disengage (leap, teleport...) to be able to punish an immediate second attempt of your target with the real burst.

Its not impossible to beat even a good thief, if he makes a big mistake, overextends or whatever, but this chance of success is bound primarely to the skill of the thief, not to the skill of the necro.Well the rule for any class against a thief is: if he disengages, you succeeded.

[DeceiverX.8361]

You can win with GS equipped against a thief. You just need to be in shroud :tongue:

As for staff vs gs into thief, there's just no advantage to staff even for catching dodges. You can still do it on GS to which the pull + chill is generally way better than the ranged fear + chill. KrHome is generally right about how fighting a thief works in any class. Deadeye aside, they're going to need to come back, and even then, disengaging during their disengage will either force their extra cooldowns or initiative. Or they'll just not bother if you're healthy.

Suffer is also an amazing utility to take into fighting thieves. Nearly every thief in the game runs DA, which applies weakness and poison on steal. The weakness comes after the poison, and suffer has no cast time, letting a suffer right at the start in response to Mug apply some damage, chill, and cut down their opening burst drastically via the reflected weakness, which also forces their cleanse or cuts their dodges, making them super vulnerable to follow-up attacks.

The build I posted has three cleanses or a total of five to nine condis removed on low cooldowns. The health pool makes a very substantial difference since it's both a large increase in sustain against conditions in both shroud and without it. Condi threats are primarily mesmers and scourges. With mesmers, the shout and transfer on OH dagger bounces procs for the clones, and SotL will heal per clone. It depends heavily on the scourge to win as stacking might/vuln like reaper does either gets corrupted into weakness over and over, or vuln transferred back which helps them deal more damage as well. Further, with SoS over SotL, your swiftness will just get corrupted repeatedly, anyways.

The build works very well and deals comparable damage to its berserker counterpart and is simply just better than the valk one when it comes to damage, at very little loss of sustain.

[Brujeria.7536]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:And GS not only

can

work for reaper but it

carries

reaper and can similarly also deal huge damage and change a fight

if played around its concept.

S/D does not burst and does not deal "insane" damage. Especially now with the nerfs cutting its damage by roughly 25% on average.

It's an extremely strong set, but it does not achieve the ideal of a "burst assassin" as I mentioned above.

Reaper GS is very strong weapon. But it does not fit the "slashy mobile fighter with a big sword" concept.

GS, if used properly, is not slow and easy to avoid. If you refuse to acknowledge that, it's your problem, because I'm telling you this as a reaper player who's had tremendous success in solo play in WvW and typically wins in 1v1's against a number of thieves in the top 50.

You cant win against a good thief with greatsword, period.You can't with greatsword

equipped

- true! When I fight good thieves I leave my second weaponset alone. Axe/X and shroud (=the entering burst) is the only viable strategy. But it's enough on berserk gear. After dagger and sword auto nerf thieves can't punish you as hard as in the past for running full berserk. This really changed a lot for glass-reapers.

The other thing is spectral grasp in melee range. Since spectral grasp can be casted without facing the target, this is the de facto shroud burst setup against thieves (no stability and usually not blocking at the opening burst).

Thief jumps at you, you start to move, thief stays on you while auto attacking, spectral grasp in melee (basically a knockdown) -> F1 -> 10k burst -> shadowstep -> /wave emote to thief

Also, in combination with reaper shroud its impossible to close a gap or prevent a thief from disenganging,True, but no other class can catch a thief that don't want to fight, so what...

Yes but for the necromancer class as a whole its a lot more crucial because so many skills depend on hitting a target for a defensive effect. A warrior does not bother as much - healing signet always works, adrenal health also - same goes for ele heals, but this aspect for necromancers is also true for a lot of its condi removal AND lifeforce generation. If you cant hit a target you cant generate lifeforce which is ultimately your biggest defense. You cant rely on the heal from dagger 2, or all vampiric traits, signet of vampirism, etc everything is being SO heavily focused on hitting a target or getting hit - both things a thief fully controlls.

you are stuck with a 10 second cooldown of reaper shroud and you get wrecked by any thief buildIt depends when this happens...

yes but ultimately it will happen, and as to the point above, you then have to use your healing ksill most of the times (in case you have CC equiped) which then again, can easily be interrupted by the thief - you cant get that stability from Cttb because that - aswell - is bound to hitting a target. A thief that knews what a necromancer can do plays with it.

really, as this leaves you only with axe+X which isnt nearly enough pressure or damage to win, the thief just needs to dodge axe 2 and he is going to win the fight. Even if a thief disengages, you wont have much lifeforce left. Lifeforce generation is, for the most part connected to hitting foes. You wont hit a good thief very often. He can disengage at will and you loose your lifeforce over time, spectral armor isnt going to help, again, shadowstep, shortbow 5, wait 5 seconds, re-engageA thief swapping to shortbow is bound to it for 10 seconds and SB5 costs a huge amout of ressources. When a thief swaps to SB and uses SB5, I run in the opposite direction, because coming back will cost him most of his initiative. This buys me a significant amount of time. The way you describe the matchup it sounds like a thief can do everything at everytime. That's not true.

He cant do everything at a time, i never tried to imply that, but he has full controll over HOW the fight is going. In certain cases he can leave you with condis, keeping you infight unless you have some very specific condi removes (consume conditions also adds a condition itself - keeping you always in fight for 5 more seconds), and as i have mentioned above - you cant generate lifeforce in that time. Well you can with traited spectral skills or Signet of undeath, but well, thats either a waste or not even common.

A reaper can outplay a thief in such a way, that the thief is not able to reengage (without making himself extremely vulnerable) when the reaper leaves shroud.

Also the build you posted earlier is clearly not good or in any form reasonable, you cant go to town with such low amount of condi clears ever, not in this meta, not since the release of HoT.True. This build would also not work for me and I highly doubt for any other player against a competent opponent.

In terms of general necro gameplay you just dont have enough "big" skills to force out the dodges and defensive cooldowns of any class.What? The opposite is true.

not really, if i would be able to apply so much pressure to a thief that he has no dodges / easy shadowsteps / blocks left and i then can catch him with CttB / GS 5 / spectral grasp etc. RELIABLE it would be the case, but as it stands the pressure can cause him to disengage, but its not enough to prevent him from disengage. IF he disengages your odds become worse and worse everytime he re-engages

Dagger 2 will be dodged, yes, apart from that youre blank. Reaper shroud will be countered by a shadowstep / leap / port , depending on the class, the skill 4 and 5 in shroud (should you use them) will be blocked. IF you swap to greatsword, the only really "dangerous" skill is greatsword 5, if you miss with it because well, the enemy has more than enough dodges left, have fun the next 10 seconds while a thief / ranger / X harasses you with any ranged weapon.Yep, any viable reaper build is built around shroud bursting as it's instant cast and has multiple effects (damage, CC, corrupt, selfheal). Reaper demands to know when this burst will have its maximum effect.

I tried tons of non shroud burst builds. None of them worked. You need that burst to survive the 10s cooldown because you have to put your target in a defense position. That's why it is key to not enter shroud at the opening burst of your target and to force a disengage (leap, teleport...) to be able to punish an immediate second attempt of your target with the real burst.

yes, i agree with you. the only aspect with a real element of surprise is entering shroud, but after you entered, its easily countered again.

Its not impossible to beat even a good thief, if he makes a big mistake, overextends or whatever, but this chance of success is bound primarely to the skill of the thief, not to the skill of the necro.Well the rule for any class against a thief is: if he disengages, you succeeded.

Again, the odds are getting worse with the next engage for a necro - its not so much the case for all other classes, but for necro it is rather severe.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

Any decent thief will run circles around pretty much any spec necro, using Greastsword just seems to make it that much hard because of how slow the weapon is in doing everything. Slow animations on every ability make most not worth even attempting. Gs4 and Gs5 while decent in PvE have huge tells, easy counters and for Gs4 the 2second ICD between pulses means even if you get it down, its not much of a threat due to how quick they can jump in, attack and then jump back out.

As for If they disengage count it as a win. No. Just no. The more times they disengage the worse the fight becomes for the Necro. At least other classes have abilities they can use to escape or be ready with invuls, blocks and such for the burst from stealth thats to come. Necro what does he have? Nothing. Its KNOWING what is coming but not have any tools to help counter that. Sure you can AoE spam the area with Marks or something but defensive ability wise, what do you have?

The Greatsword just feels to much like its a PvE weapon, in game modes with fast movement, teleports, blocks, invuls and everything else it just doesnt work. For Necro. I still think the EXACT same weapon would be fine on the likes of Ranger, Warrior and Guardian because they can go toe to toe with other classes, they have the abilities, healing and defense to do it. Necro simply doesnt.

[Wizardauz.3761]

Reaper GS is good for GS4 and GS5. But thats about it. That statement alone should tell you it needs a little love from Anet.

Taking a weapon for 2 skills, knowing the others are basically useless isn't much a reason.

Were not taking GS because, GS4 and GS5 are so good. Its just that there isn't anything else.

AA - Sucks.GS2 - Slow, Telegraphed, Predictable. The fact thats the only thing its good for is down cleave isnt good. Hundred Blades is good for downcleave, doesn't mean its a useless skill otherwise.GS3 - Same as GS2. Slow, Predictable, Crappy-Hit Box, and gives you nothing but Vulnerability. Name another 3 skill that bland.