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Profession counters


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A curious thought project. Player skill levels aside, what builds, playstyles, tactics or profession/especs counter well against others in competitive gameplay? For example, kiting works fairly well against Spellbreaker, necros (core, scourge and reaper) have a difficult time against ranged attacks, thieves generally melt to conditions. What are some others?

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It kind of has to be written on a 1-1 basis, because there is a drastic difference in how this works between WvW and PvP. Half of it has to do with how Gear works in PvP (which blocks out a hand full of builds due to appropriate stat combos), the other half being scaling dynamics. Another factor is Navigation. PvP maps are small enough that certain "ranged" advantages are less effective due to how areas are laid out, and the availability of gap closer. WvW being mostly open field means pure range advantages don't have terrain to contend with.

Unless you're Mirage. Theres pretty much nothing short of "being significantly outnumbered" that can threaten a competent Mirage

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@Frostmane.9734 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:Mirage and thief counters everything. Why? Coz there are no real counters in this game so ability to pick/reset your fights is The biggest counter.

/Joke but still kinda true ^^

Not just kinda true. Very true.

I am a Mesmer main and have been since release but trying to put my biases aside I’ve been learning other builds in an attempt to verify or discredit claims against mirage.

My bias never goes to “I want to be OP so I can always win.” I was very outspoken on the OG chrono bunk to the point where I refused to partake. I’ve always commented on the strength on condi with Mesmer since HoT builds, and I’ve pointed out my dislike of the recent clone spam chrono builds, even though I find it more tolerable since the nerfs. Although I find the spam more tolerable now, I never found it to be a problem as a mirage, thief, or holo especially when using the terrain better than the enemy mirage.

Also my criteria of “OP” is in the context of conquest. I have been out spoken about my dislike of conquest, but it really is the only basis for OP. Having a lot of favorable 1v1 matchups alone is not enough to define OP.

In relation to the thread and counters:Testing vs strong PvPers (criteria being Plat 2 - Legend) I’ve had strong success in 1v1 duels vs Power and Condi Mirage’s not running inspiration line with heavy condi pressure builds on Necro, Burn Gaurd, and Thief. If they were only relying on the sigil and jaunt it was a little RNG if I’d win especially with guard. I have yet to test or learn condi for any other classes. In turn any mirage running inspiration had a much harder time trying to down me on any of the the above or following builds. Other than a few exceptions I don’t find inspiration to be a very good line right now particularity for mirage.

Another build I’ve had success with was DD using S+P/Staff and good use of walls. This was terrible on point as I could not reliably stay on it, and it lacked the roaming a sb thief would have making it’s viability questionable. But this is the type of build that can kill it 1v1 provided you fight with terrain. I could troll condi mirage with the pre rework DE until I got a clean shot, but power running reflect traits was borderline impossible.

I would consistently Push off and decap with SB, and Holo. However I struggled to win the kill off point when being kited. If a fight prolonged on point depending on the point I could safely counter the range pressure and lure them in. However on many points that was not an option.

With an intimate knowledge of mirage and how they tend to attack I was able to hold off power mirage with menders ele, however I struggled to do so vs condi. Even vs power I would eventually lose (I admit to not being very adept at the class) but I can keep the contest for quite a while, in any normal game with allies who rotate well I had more than long enough to have gotten support. With FB I could contest for a long time.

I have little context for WvW as I really mono toon PvE, but I was able to camp and troll camps with power mirage and win 4v1s, however I doubt the quality of randoms in WvW and with inflated stats I’m not be surprised to mow down people who cannot doge, and players seemingly fall for the “clone act” after a target drop much more in WvW. (Yet some of these people have 1/3 legendary back items including PvP so I would presume they are somewhat competent.)

Call it ignorance but I’ve always advocated for standerized builds in WvW using the “PvP build” window. I cannot take the 1v1s serious as with the current balance it only matters in large scale, which might be intended however it discredits any “X is OP cuz of 1v1s and havoc”

There is a lot of hyperbole about mirage, condi is really strong however and could use a shave, but I think that says more about condi than it does mirage. I do not deny that even power has a lot beneficial matchups, but majority of the cries of “OP” usually come from ignorance of the class and how it applies pressure and damage. If you understand how they fight it evens the matchup significantly, where even in unfavourable matchups it should be enough to hold your own so your team can make up the difference in a 5v5 setting.

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