Can eles get some buffs in pvp?

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

He was that crazy staff tempest in 3rd place right?

[bravan.3876]

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

I get tired to explain for the 100 times why something being meta or not in a specific gamemode doesn't say anything about how broken or ez to play something is. Not being meta just mean not the best for any specific role you need in this game mode, nothing more. It still can be lame asf and ez asf.

[Megametzler.5729]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Staff ele best rezz bot. Nerf geysir plox.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

I said this before and I will say this again...the main problem of ele pvp builds right now that there function in only small niches when meta builds are actually useful in more scenarios:

• weaver sw/d: druid/spelbraker wannabe without druid strengths in 2v2 and to slow at killing anything in 1v1.
• fresh weaver: thief/Mesmer wannabe without cc and mobility.
• tempest: FB wannabe without even half of it's survivability (against condi) and it's diverse support.

Ele doesn't exists (completely) in tournaments /ATm - even rev's (ekem power heralds) have better representation.In case of ranked ele works for people who already experienced and take advantage of their rotation and role knowledge...but let's face it...nobody actually skilled give's a crap about ranked...and nobody should evaluate ele based on ranked where garbage like deadeye is viable.

Unfortunately I don't believe in ele good pvp buffs. Even small good thing can be completely ruined by pve benchmark based skill/trait rework (F Raids!). The best example is arcane fury.

[ZNICK.8537]

@"Celtus.8456" said:"Ele is fine": They have top damage in PvE. An average-at-best 'bruiser' build with Sw/D weaver. The "hit all the instant abilities" gimmick spike with fresh air builds. And every other build stuck in 2014 style-meta.

Thank goodness this profession has the lowest hp and armor, I don't know how anyone would deal with them if they had amulet choices, or more traitline freedom.

/s

Balance isn't important in PVE though... play what you want, it just doesn't matter. In WvW/sPvP Ele is crap and needs something.

Z

[musu.9205]

@ZNICK.8537 said:

@"Celtus.8456" said:"Ele is fine": They have top damage in PvE. An average-at-best 'bruiser' build with Sw/D weaver. The "hit all the instant abilities" gimmick spike with fresh air builds. And every other build stuck in 2014 style-meta.

Thank goodness this profession has the lowest hp and armor, I don't know how anyone would deal with them if they had amulet choices, or more traitline freedom.

/s

Balance isn't important in PVE though... play what you want, it just doesn't matter. In WvW/sPvP Ele is crap and needs something.

Z

wvw ele is crap ? what are you talking about ?

sword weaver need more polish than number buff . dagger offhand needs some cd reduce, staff needs a more defined role in pvp .scepter needs some QOL changes and rework water and earth skills .

also ele needs better elites , rework or buff .

and ele still has core problem , they have more skills but gw2 stats system doesn't support hybrid builds well . the only way to do this is making each trait line more of trade off and build define for ele .

i know FA ele takes a lot of skill , but FA is worst example of gw2 combat : instantly nuke without any tell . It's not meta but its design is at least questionable . same for sword weaver sustain .they are not op but they are still bad design . i just hope anet could rework every class for their core issue instead of bandaid balance

[musu.9205]

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:I said this before and I will say this again...the main problem of ele pvp builds right now that there function in only small niches when meta builds are actually useful in more scenarios:

• weaver sw/d: druid/spelbraker wannabe without druid strengths in 2v2 and to slow at killing anything in 1v1.
• fresh weaver: thief/Mesmer wannabe without cc and mobility.
• tempest: FB wannabe without even half of it's survivability (against condi) and it's diverse support.

Ele doesn't exists (completely) in tournaments /ATm - even rev's (ekem power heralds) have better representation.In case of ranked ele works for people who already experienced and take advantage of their rotation and role knowledge...but let's face it...nobody actually skilled give's a crap about ranked...and nobody should evaluate ele based on ranked where garbage like deadeye is viable.

Unfortunately I don't believe in ele good pvp buffs. Even small good thing can be completely ruined by pve benchmark based skill/trait rework (F Raids!). The best example is arcane fury.

that bad balance has nothing to do with raid .raid weaver build uses staff . end of story .its quite clear anet can't truly balance hybrid build due to their stats system .sword weaver can be easily broken with few buff .FA is bad design , the entire air trait line and scepter air skills should be reworked for better burst build .currently its gimmick at best .FB needs to be nerfed and fixed before tempest buff tbh .but i think anet could slightly buff tempest trait line .

[Rym.1469]

I think we can agree on two points:

1. The viability of non-support Ele should be less reliant on defensive stats, especially healing power, allowing it to function properly without need to resustain from 10% to 100% hp on regular basis. Fighting something you have only couple seconds to kill before it resets it's hp from being nearly dead and negates all your work is not fun.

2. We don't want for D/D Celestial era of Elementalist to come back. Current Sword Weaver looks a lot like it, just without actually doing damage. If it got a round of buffs at right places, increasing it's damage without decreasing bunker potential we could be caught with pants down by the nightmare of balance Ele was before HoT.

ArenaNet is likely very aware of the second point which is why Weaver buffs have been rather cautious ever since PoF launch.

I'm no Ele main, but the over-reliance on Water spec is visible to everyone. Perhaps making it less desireable for non-supports could be the way to go. Or putting sustain in other specializations tailored for damage builds, but reducing effectiveness of such traits when taken together with Water spec to prevent stacking them and creating bunkers. Or moving more of the sustain from the traits onto the weapons themselves.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

@musu.9205Wrong!arcane fury - because of raidstempest lighting overload nerf - raidstempest healing traits change to become completely healing power dependant - raidsno single rework on weaver mechanics - raidsno buff on viable pvp weapons - raidsand I could talk because of this on and on...And sorry dude staff is not exclusive pve weapon - it was viable in pvp - IT WAS ELE META at some point. It has unique skills that are useful and fun besides damage that can be viable only in wvw and pvp. Just look at arcane ress trait.

[reikken.4961]

@Rym.1469 said:I think we can agree on two points:

1. The viability of non-support Ele should be less reliant on defensive stats, especially healing power, allowing it to function properly without need to resustain from 10% to 100% hp on regular basis.

I'm no Ele main, but the over-reliance on Water spec is visible to everyone.

yep, this is the problem. ele being 100% reliant on healing power and the water trait line to function in pvp is indeed the problem. and anet has only been making it worse with the elite specs being designed around assuming you have the water trait line.

For it to even be possible to balance ele in pvp, it needs a trait rework.

[Math.5123]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Staff ele best rezz bot. Nerf geysir plox.

He played SW/D.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Hex Luther...you play this game?

[Megametzler.5729]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Staff ele best rezz bot. Nerf geysir plox.

He played SW/D.

I only saw that staff ele once. Do you have a link? I am curious about how he beat chronos

€: Nwm, got it. So far he's just stalling though...

[Durzlla.6295]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

[Megametzler.5729]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

Ah that’s a little disappointing, I’ll have to give it a look anyway, ESPECIALLY if he’s a staff tempest, although it sounds like he was actually a weaver?

You know what day the stream was on so I can find it easily without digging?

[Megametzler.5729]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

Ah that’s a little disappointing, I’ll have to give it a look anyway, ESPECIALLY if he’s a staff tempest, although it sounds like he was actually a weaver?

You know what day the stream was on so I can find it easily without digging?

Naah, he was playing s/d weaver. The traditional build. There was another staff tempest, but that was just a meme. Starts somewhat later... after 5 hours or so... underwhelming build unfortunately and unable to abuse its strengths against coordinated teams.

[Kako.1930]

Honestly, I would be happy if they just reverted the fresh air changes. It still wasn't any good competitively except against people that didn't know what they were doing before (being high risk, medium reward), but it's just completely gutted now (high risk, no reward)...

[LazySummer.2568]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

This is exactly what all Sw/D weavers is able to do at high level, and it also requires a great deal of skill only to pull off just that while other specs can do that with less effort, possibly get a kill, and be more useful in teamfights. Yet people keep making comments about some sort of immortal weaver 1v3 holding nodes, which is full of shit because weavers can barely keep their nodes capped as soon as it's a 1v2, and successful 1v3's only happened because the weaver is a way better player than the 3 enemies that have no idea what they are doing (similiar to all these ele montage wvw videos where all it showcase is the ele farming baddies. If you just hop on to any ele streams you can see what usually happens are nothing similar to montage videos and more of eles forcing to retreat or getting killed by other classes).

[witcher.3197]

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

This is exactly what all Sw/D weavers is able to do at high level, and it also requires a great deal of skill only to pull off

Let's not get carried away though. That great deal of skill basically means spamming a simple water -> earth -> fire rotation similar to the old DD ele. Whenever they come under any sort of pressure sword weavers react the exact same way, you don't even have to think about what to use. And honestly that rotation is like 80% of the gameplay.

[Megametzler.5729]

@witcher.3197 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

This is exactly what all Sw/D weavers is able to do at high level, and it also requires a great deal of skill only to pull off

Let's not get carried away though. That great deal of skill basically means spamming a simple water -> earth -> fire rotation similar to the old DD ele. Whenever they come under any sort of pressure sword weavers react the exact same way, you don't even have to think about what to use. And honestly that rotation is like 80% of the gameplay.

While warriors just spam FC and wait for Defy Pain proc. ;)

But let's stay on topic. Weaver needs some (slight? big?) buffs. Not only s/d, but staff and sc/x too - for PVP at least.

[LazySummer.2568]

@witcher.3197 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.

Is there a video of this? I really want to give that a watch lol

Naah, he didn't. He was just stalling a lot and getting driven offpoint by engis and needed +1 to deal damage. Which was definitely not because of his skill.

Look at woodenpotatoes' videos on twitch. It's still great playing, obviously.

This is exactly what all Sw/D weavers is able to do at high level, and it also requires a great deal of skill only to pull off

Let's not get carried away though. That great deal of skill basically means spamming a simple water -> earth -> fire rotation similar to the old DD ele. Whenever they come under any sort of pressure sword weavers react the exact same way, you don't even have to think about what to use. And honestly that rotation is like 80% of the gameplay.

Except it's not because any decent player will expect the rotation to come from the ele and bait out that rotation while applying actual pressure after the water/earth evades happen so if you just spam it randomly when your hp isn't even low and not using those evades to dodge key attacks the mistake is big enough to get you killed, and how do you expect to do any sort of counter pressure spamming your defensive rotations (i.e. not using lightning attunement)? You also need to kite a bit against high power damage specs like spellbreakers and holos.

Nothing else that's meta/remotely viable currently requires any more skill (if not less) if you want to boil it down to "basic rotations":

1. Condi mirages: torch 4 + 5 -> swap weapon rotation while spamming evades and shatters
2. Condi scourge -> spam all marks & torch skills until enemies gets near then all shade F skills rotation
3. Support fb -> spam F2 & F2 tome skills then mace shield 345 + staff 4 rotation
4. Thieves -> spam 3 & evades with some 2 and steal rotation
5. Spellbreaker -> spam FC, shield block, GS 3, Arcing Slice rotation
6. Holosmith -> spam Photon Forge skills with exceed skills (especailly HLA + SS) rotation
7. Ranger -> spam LB 4 + 2 into sword/warhorn 2354 rotation
8. Rev -> spam teleport (PT or sword 5) into sword 42 swap into glint & activate all facet rotation

The above is a poor argument because in reality, these are all bad plays that gets you killed if all you do is spam mindlessly.

[popaz.1524]

Yes Anet please, Firebrand is the only top tier support, Tempest and Scrapper are ''OK'' but they dont compete with it.