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Mesmer still has to much evade, invulnerability and fucking clone spam please nerf for Grenth's sake


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@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:DARE DEVIL STILL HAS TO MUCH EVADES, INVULNERABILITY AND KITTEN CONDI SPAM PLEASE NERF FOR GRENTH'S SAKE

You aren't fighting AI with a daredevil. I'd rather fight any thief build over the AI spam Mesmer.

Turn auto target off.Learn to manipulate AI pathing.Learn how to avoid shatters.Strait up doge phants.

You can win (or push off point) with virtually any spec or build.

Condi mes will hurt you as they have more pressuring shatters, but you can still win with minimal cleanse by just dogging right.

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Mesmer doesn't actually have more evades than other classes, but I agree that there are two builds that need to get nerfed.

Condi axe mirage meta build is grossly OPed because it leaves very little openings while applying an overwhelming amount of conditions. It forces retargets and goes into stealth so often, while spamming clones and doing condi burst, it's just not a fair gameplay.

And Power shatter GS burst meta build can one shot from stealth. And saying it sacrifices defense for it is really untrue. It has a lot of stealth and escapes, a knock back, various dazes, etc.

I'd say the biggest issue with mirage is simply the overwhelming amount of damage it can while leaving no openings to be attacked.

I play mesmer btw.

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@Hot Boy.7138 said:Mesmer doesn't actually have more evades than other classes, but I agree that there are two builds that need to get nerfed.

Condi axe mirage meta build is grossly OPed because it leaves very little openings while applying an overwhelming amount of conditions. It forces retargets and goes into stealth so often, while spamming clones and doing condi burst, it's just not a fair gameplay.

And Power shatter GS burst meta build can one shot from stealth. And saying it sacrifices defense for it is really untrue. It has a lot of stealth and escapes, a knock back, various dazes, etc.

I'd say the biggest issue with mirage is simply the overwhelming amount of damage it can while leaving no openings to be attacked.

I play mesmer btw.

If you want to play a total condi troll build you certainly can, the main problem is there is no decent window to play your hand against the mesmer so to speak, with the staff teleport and jaunt you have essentially 4 blinks out of melee rng, and the staff PR is on a 10sec cd, if u take illusionary ambush it is yet another port that breaks targeting on a 20 sec CD, stealth from the torch every 24 seconds, stealth from decoy every 40 seconds, that is 6 seconds of stealth, the distortion invuln every 42.5 seconds, mirror images another break targeting ability on a 30sec CD with a short port and stun break, and axes of symmetry every 8 seconds which is a port, breaks targeting again, and is also an evade. You cannot be stunned pretty much if u also factor in EM.

2 stun breaks not including EM Decoy(40sec), Mirror Images(30sec)6 ports Phase Retreat(10sec), 3x Jaunt(20sec), Illusionary Ambush(20sec), axes of symmetry(8sec)1 invuln(42.5sec)2 stealth The Prestige(24sec) Decoy(40sec)Superspeed on any mirage cloak2 Break targeting Illusionary Ambush(20sec), axes of Symmetry(8seconds)

All this survivability would be fine if the class took quite some time to kill their target, but the fact they can condi load you in a matter of seconds makes it horribly broken. I think Warrior/SB has far too much survivability, condi mirage takes that imba and launches it into stratosphere levels of stupid.

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@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:DARE DEVIL STILL HAS TO MUCH EVADES, INVULNERABILITY AND KITTEN CONDI SPAM PLEASE NERF FOR GRENTH'S SAKE

You aren't fighting AI with a daredevil. I'd rather fight any thief build over the AI spam Mesmer.

Turn auto target off.Learn to manipulate AI pathing.Learn how to avoid shatters.Strait up doge phants.

You can win (or push off point) with virtually any spec or build.

Condi mes will hurt you as they have more pressuring shatters, but you can still win with minimal cleanse by just dogging right.

I Don't use auto target. If someone wants to make a troll build full of blinks, evade, Ai clutter and forced dropped targets it should not do good damage. It is a poorly designed game mechanic that is beyond annoying to play against.

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@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:DARE DEVIL STILL HAS TO MUCH EVADES, INVULNERABILITY AND KITTEN CONDI SPAM PLEASE NERF FOR GRENTH'S SAKE

You aren't fighting AI with a daredevil. I'd rather fight any thief build over the AI spam Mesmer.

Turn auto target off.Learn to manipulate AI pathing.Learn how to avoid shatters.Strait up doge phants.

You can win (or push off point) with virtually any spec or build.

Condi mes will hurt you as they have more pressuring shatters, but you can still win with minimal cleanse by just dogging right.

I Don't use auto target. If someone wants to make a troll build full of blinks, evade, Ai clutter and forced dropped targets it should not do good damage. It is a poorly designed game mechanic that is beyond annoying to play against.

Those “troll builds” usually give up stuns and stealth for things like target drop and extra clone generation/damage, at that point losing to AI clutter in a 1v1 2v2 side node scenario is a personal problem. I among many have had no issue, and they do “good damage” because glassy builds tend to.If they try those shinanigans on me and they are not in point well /gg I capped it, and can now abuse terrain to make them react.

Mesmers have 2 types of attacks that do damage, if visual noise is what makes you lose because it makes it subjectively impossible for you to put play it, then you deserve to lose. Yes Elite specs gave Mesmers every tool to our play the cast in terms of “no longer prematurely running out of cooldowns and dieing” like majority of the cast, but all you need is the basic 2 doges, 1 long defensive cooldown, and 1 short defensive cooldown + some game sense to avoid getting hit by anything significant from any Mesmer build.

By your logic DD which has more evades should also do poor damage. While it does not have visual noise, it can hide in stealth (which is a force target drop) and has instant burst that ignores walls which is infinitely harder to play around since there is 0 tell and can attack from safety.

To me both are fine if you can learn to read and anticipate.

Again condi might be a problem, but I would argue condi is an issue regardless of what you play presuming it has decent covers built into the kit.

The only times something “should not do damage” is when it consistently heals to full and can sit on point. If you refuse to learn what you are fighting, and fail to doge you should take damage.

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@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Mesmer doesn't actually have more evades than other classes, but I agree that there are two builds that need to get nerfed.

Condi axe mirage meta build is grossly OPed because it leaves very little openings while applying an overwhelming amount of conditions. It forces retargets and goes into stealth so often, while spamming clones and doing condi burst, it's just not a fair gameplay.

And Power shatter GS burst meta build can one shot from stealth. And saying it sacrifices defense for it is really untrue. It has a lot of stealth and escapes, a knock back, various dazes, etc.

I'd say the biggest issue with mirage is simply the overwhelming amount of damage it can while leaving no openings to be attacked.

I play mesmer btw.

If you want to play a total condi troll build you certainly can, the main problem is there is no decent window to play your hand against the mesmer so to speak, with the staff teleport and jaunt you have essentially 4 blinks out of melee rng, and the staff PR is on a 10sec cd, if u take illusionary ambush it is yet another port that breaks targeting on a 20 sec CD, stealth from the torch every 24 seconds, stealth from decoy every 40 seconds, that is 6 seconds of stealth, the distortion invuln every 42.5 seconds, mirror images another break targeting ability on a 30sec CD with a short port and stun break, and axes of symmetry every 8 seconds which is a port, breaks targeting again, and is also an evade. You cannot be stunned pretty much if u also factor in EM.

2 stun breaks not including EM Decoy(40sec), Mirror Images(30sec)6 ports Phase Retreat(10sec), 3x Jaunt(20sec), Illusionary Ambush(20sec), axes of symmetry(8sec)1 invuln(42.5sec)2 stealth The Prestige(24sec) Decoy(40sec)Superspeed on any mirage cloak2 Break targeting Illusionary Ambush(20sec), axes of Symmetry(8seconds)

All this survivability would be fine if the class took quite some time to kill their target, but the fact they can condi load you in a matter of seconds makes it horribly broken. I think Warrior/SB has far too much survivability, condi mirage takes that imba and launches it into stratosphere levels of stupid.

I agree with everything you said. It really needs to be addressed.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:The sad part is that when they nerf Mesmer they will nerf the wrong things and not what is actually causing the problems, or nerf things that also affect not-OP builds.

why devs always do this... or are we just a handful of players with huge vocals wanting not what the 90% of the population wants?

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@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:DARE DEVIL STILL HAS TO MUCH EVADES, INVULNERABILITY AND KITTEN CONDI SPAM PLEASE NERF FOR GRENTH'S SAKE

You aren't fighting AI with a daredevil. I'd rather fight any thief build over the AI spam Mesmer.

Turn auto target off.Learn to manipulate AI pathing.Learn how to avoid shatters.Strait up doge phants.

You can win (or push off point) with virtually any spec or build.

Condi mes will hurt you as they have more pressuring shatters, but you can still win with minimal cleanse by just dogging right.

I Don't use auto target. If someone wants to make a troll build full of blinks, evade, Ai clutter and forced dropped targets it should not do good damage. It is a poorly designed game mechanic that is beyond annoying to play against.

Those “troll builds” usually give up stuns and stealth for things like target drop and extra clone generation/damage, at that point losing to AI clutter in a 1v1 2v2 side node scenario is a personal problem. I among many have had no issue, and they do “good damage” because glassy builds tend to.If they try those shinanigans on me and they are not in point well /gg I capped it, and can now abuse terrain to make them react.

Mesmers have 2 types of attacks that do damage, if visual noise is what makes you lose because it makes it subjectively impossible for you to put play it, then you deserve to lose. Yes Elite specs gave Mesmers every tool to our play the cast in terms of “no longer prematurely running out of cooldowns and dieing” like majority of the cast, but all you need is the basic 2 doges, 1 long defensive cooldown, and 1 short defensive cooldown + some game sense to avoid getting hit by anything significant from any Mesmer build.

By your logic DD which has more evades should also do poor damage. While it does not have visual noise, it can hide in stealth (which is a force target drop) and has instant burst that ignores walls which is infinitely harder to play around since there is 0 tell and can attack from safety.

To me both are fine if you can learn to read and anticipate.

Again condi might be a problem, but I would argue condi is an issue regardless of what you play presuming it has decent covers built into the kit.

The only times something “should not do damage” is when it consistently heals to full and can sit on point. If you refuse to learn what you are fighting, and fail to doge you should take damage.

I would dodge, but I got stunned me in the middle of my dodge roll. Another cool feature of the class.

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what was the point in a mesmer rework on "confusion" if.... mirage condi spec is still completely busted and even more OP then before with the current 1vs1 duelist spec out at the moment?

Some of these changes become so irreverent it gets old/boring to even want to play/encourage others to keep playing. Honestly, kills the fun in playing spvp when you are fighting 2 of the same spec mirages making it hard as hell to win/carry game when just anybody can easily pick up the class and spam f1-f3 with some other abilities to stack confusion/torment easily on someone.

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