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"No downstate" better not become a permanent feature...


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This is such a lazy approach to balancing an integral part or PvP/WvW. The Scrapper's function gyro is exists solely for stomping foes or ressurecting allies. By imposing this "no downstate week" garb, you've completely negated the scrapper's unique profession mechanic. I thought ANETs stance on major mechanical changes was NOT to alienate any classes? I really wish people stop suggesting bad ideas...

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What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

It's not going to be permanent. The one thing it might lead to however is a change to the downstate as a whole, which is veeery welcome at this point.

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@Blocki.4931 said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

It's not going to be permanent. The one thing it might lead to however is a change to the downstate as a whole, which is veeery welcome at this point.

Why does it have to be about engi players? Objectively looking at it, it is a class issue. What other class has an elite spec solely designed around the downstate? The error here isn't engi players, but the class design.

That said, I am looking forward to the event.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the class mechanic for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

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Scrapper is only an elite specialisation and probably not even very used atm, but I guess rangers and necros are entire professions with arguably strong down states which I guess will be affected at least as much. Also the crazy ress power some other specs have will also go away for this event.

Even though I'm a fan of the downstate-stomp mechanic of the game I feel like this will be a good experimental week and hopefully it'll get some changes to either ress power which together with aoe cleave power creep makes stomping nearly an obsolete mechanic, either to stomping or downstate.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

It's not going to be permanent. The one thing it might lead to however is a change to the downstate as a whole, which is veeery welcome at this point.

engis are the first or second most downtrodden classes in all of GW2 history, so don't be so quick to call this a little thing. Completely marginalizing a specs unique features for any reason/duration is no small thing. Technically, this change won't affect me much because I don't Zerg and or play scrapper...I'm just saying the path of laziness when major changes are involved is not good. Solo/DuoQ in PvP was supposed to be a one or two season "trial" but it's lingered for much longer because success/fail criteria were not properly identified/communicated in advance.

The main point I'm trying to make is that these "trials" can be a slippery slope...I'd much rather see the rezzing mechanics reworked than this nonsense. Rez rework would have been several orders of magnitude more relevant than the underwater rework.....

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@coro.3176 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the
class mechanic
for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

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It's won't be permanent.It affects skills traits and items which they would have to all change.It affects finishers which would need to either be taken out of the game which would remove an item from the economy, or revamped to automatically go off on a kill.It affects combat and something would have to be adjusted to compensate for it's removal, probably increased vitality on players.

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@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the
class mechanic
for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

@Shadowcat.2680 This was taken straight from the GW2 Wiki Page...

"Scrapper's mechanic is the Function Gyro that grants the ability to use the function key (default F) to revive allies or finish foes from a distance."

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You probably haven't played scrapper to trivialize the importance of function gyro...

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My Function Gyro said... "OK, FINE!!!" and booked himself a week long cruise in the Bloodtide Coast.(That cruise is gonna set me back 500 gold, dagnabbit!. :angry:)

But... I'm ok with it if Anet entertains the thought of maybe revisiting how the Function Gyro works. Don't get me wrong, finishing enemies and rezzing friendlies is cool, but I'd love to have more functionality built into my Function Gyro, like:

1) Absorbing a condi every so often from the Scrapper (10s or so?)2) Providing a few Might stacks while in combat (someone mentioned this... great idea!)

Also, while my Function Gyro is busy sipping Mai Tai's, I'll be curious to see how the upcoming week's warfare will go without the downstate mechanic. It might prove to be interesting! :smile:

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@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the
class mechanic
for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

Then you don't understand how elite specs work. Function Gyro is the first minor trait in the Scrapper traitline where the profession mechanic is added, just like the first minor traits for all the other elite specs (i.e., Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, Reaper Shroud) .

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@Exalted Quality.8534 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the
class mechanic
for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

@Shadowcat.2680 This was taken straight from the GW2 Wiki Page...

"Scrapper's mechanic is the Function Gyro that grants the ability to use the function key (default F) to revive allies or finish foes from a distance."

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You probably haven't played scrapper to trivialize the importance of function gyro...

Function Gyro is not trivial when it comes to downstate gameplay. Not at all. But all such gameplay will be removed with this event.

As far as gameplay for this event goes, Scrapper will suffer only in that Decisive Renown will become useless. The same could be said of any trait related to downstate. There's a few across various professions that will all be meaningless for this event.

I don't like this event. I don't like Anet's decisions with engineer overall. But calling this event debilitating for scrapper because of the loss of Function Gyro when no professions will have their downstate gameplay/traits is calling a drizzle a blizzard.

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@Shadowcat.2680 said:

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

Please look up traits like Decisive Renown, and Final Salvo, the latter of which links into two other scrapper traits Shocking Speed and Rapid Regeneration. Yes Decisive Renown affects ALL gyros, including the function gyro :)

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@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

Please look up traits like Decisive Renown, and Final Salvo, the latter of which links into two other scrapper traits Shocking Speed and Rapid Regeneration. Yes Decisive Renown affects ALL gyros, including the function gyro :)

I was referring to major traits that specifically name and enhance the mechanic in question. Reaper's Onslaught, Celestial Shadow, and Revenge Counter are all examples of such.

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@Blocki.4931 said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Tell you what. Let's have an event where your unique class/spec mechanic is disabled for a week, while nobody else's is:

  • Necro gets no reaper shroud or sand shade abilities
  • Mesmer gets no continuum split or mirage cloak
  • Ele can't overcharge or dual attune
  • Warrior gets no extra burst skills
  • Guardian only gets the core F-skills
  • Revenant can't swap legends
  • Thief gets no extra dodges or deadeye mark.
  • Ranger can't CA or SB form
  • Holo can't enter PF.

Function gyro is scrapper's unique class mechanic. Denying that (as this weekend will) is the virtual equivalent of everything I just listed above. The only differences are that:

  1. Function gyro is nearly useless in its current state, so most people won't notice its absence because it's barely used in the first place. It's already useless in PvE as it stands, has been ever since it released.
  2. Most people don't play scrapper, so they won't miss it.
  3. Engineer is one of the least-played classes in the game period, and scrapper has no niche it fits into.

@Vavume.8065 said:Most classes have skills that are related to downstate play, and frankly some of them I would consider better than function gyro, so tbh cry me river.

Ok, let's take away daredevil's extra dodge or deadeye's mark. Sounds good to me.

:smile:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the
class mechanic
for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

@Shadowcat.2680 This was taken straight from the GW2 Wiki Page...

"Scrapper's mechanic is the Function Gyro that grants the ability to use the function key (default F) to revive allies or finish foes from a distance."

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You probably haven't played scrapper to trivialize the importance of function gyro...

Function Gyro is not trivial when it comes to downstate gameplay. Not at all. But all such gameplay will be removed with this event.

As far as gameplay for this event goes, Scrapper will suffer only in that Decisive Renown will become useless. The same could be said of any trait related to downstate. There's a few across various professions that will all be meaningless for this event.

I don't like this event. I don't like Anet's decisions with engineer overall. But calling this event debilitating for scrapper because of the loss of Function Gyro when no professions will have their downstate gameplay/traits is calling a drizzle a blizzard.

The only reason it's not seen as debilitating is because function gyro is so awful in the first place that nobody uses it with any regularity. If unique mechanics are supposed to define an e-spec, then scrapper at the current moment basically has nothing defining it. The WvW no-downstate week is just pouring salt into the wound.


Seems like a lot of people just believe that function gyro is "just another skill or trait," which is a bizarre misconception. It's scrapper's "unique mechanic," much like photon forge, celestial avatar, or continuum split. This weekend is literally taking that away from scrapper.

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Take a deep breath. Exhale. Relax. This isn't a trial for a future change. Downstate isn't going anywhere.

It's just an event, hopefully the first of many events where ANet does different stuff to shake things up in our admittedly stagnant game mode. And yes, I realize that we the playerbase as a whole bear some responsibility for said stagnation. When we fall into habits and do the same exact shit every time we play, stagnation sets in.

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Well look at the bright side, if they make it permanent we will probably loose half the playerbase because there will be no way to try to balance meta builds and classes vs what people think is fun to play and all the below average players will simply be brushed to the side because it doesnt matter if they try to go 3v1 on a good meta player, he'll always win the insta-kill game.

... wait is that good? I dont even know anymore.

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