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Best Change Ever!!!


Israel.7056

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It's great, but agreed with the points about killing people being less satisfying. We had a chat in /m and reckon that ragdoll deaths would make everything better.

No downstate, ragdoll deaths, put some proper siege restrictions in place so people can't build 3 ACs on top of each other. Lovely stuff.

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I think that once every 20 seconds your finisher should play if you make the killing blow on someone. Time limited to reduce spam of zerg wipes.

Also I fully support this staying permanently with changes. I see this as an opportunity to give siege heavy handed nerfs that cant happen while downstate rally exists. Right now people sitting in acs can just be picked up over and over. With this change they can't. If this change were permanent we could nerf the hell out of siege and get our characters back to the ones doing the fighting.

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@Silinsar.6298 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Im enjoying it as well. I like the risky feel of solo roaming. A bit tough when you encounter 2 or more roaming in a squad, but still fun.

Actually, solo roaming is easier with instant kills. In a 1vX (with X being two or more) you can now more reliably make kills. With downed state, they'd have a chance to res, while you don't benefit from downed state at all as a solo roamer.

Ah thats a good point I didnt realize. It was really fun going from 2 or 3v1 down to a 1v1 and the last player from the group trying to run away :)

I hope it becomes permanenent. It would force some welcomed changes to some skills, siege and the like. Not sure how theyll incorporate finishers, since people spend gems on those

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I feel that there's definitely some loss of combat interaction with no downstate in effect...

No coming to the rescue of your allies; no killing more of the enemy that try to come to the rescue of their allies; no seeing a massive group of bodies go into downed and the exhilarating "group pounce" on them that comes after. It's just... you simply roll over whoever, they are QUICKLY dead, then you move on.

Now, I do feel there are definitely benefits to no downstate, too, though. Like people have said - 1vX combat; a smaller skilled zerg-busting group taking on a blob might have a chance again; no fool rallying multiple times in a fight cuz he tagged a bunch of your people that just got bombed.

But all in all... somehow... the fights feel more "lifeless" than before. (And it's probably because... they are.)

We'll see how the rest of the week goes.Cheers!

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The change is great. Lots of epic fights outnumbered where we slowly kited and killed a larger group. This would have been completely impossible before. This change favors the more organized (and balanced- no stacking pure tankyhealers) group more than anything, and that should be the case in "GUILD WARS" 2.

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@"Krypto.2069" said:Now, I do feel there are definitely benefits to no downstate, too, though. Like people have said - 1vX combat; a smaller skilled zerg-busting group taking on a blob might have a chance again; no fool rallying multiple times in a fight cuz he tagged a bunch of your people that just got bombed.

I only had one 1v2 encounter (well, and a 1v10 but that went as expected) and it was the most unsatisfying thing ever. A holo and a spellbreaker, the holo dropped to 10% hp before he even saw me and died while shrunk, the spellbreaker was a short duel until a random friendly came and he got roflstomped..

With downed state they would at least had a chance at a comeback. Not doing that stomp was... boring. Just plain boring. Just a mechanical I burst you therefor you die. The game isnt balanced for this and the extremes in damage is already off under normal downstate.

Smallscale/zerg fights was equally unsatisfying - people died without you even noticing it. In the guild it was like "what happened did we kill him? Oh right."

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The change is terrible and should not be permanent. Please do not consider implementing it as a permanent feature.

1) Commanders will get pin sniped indefinitely until no one will want to command anymore.2) No one will want to fight anymore because everyone doesn't want to die.3) No one will want to approach objectives that are filled with siege.4) This is bad for support classes because you can't tag people anymore because everything dies so fast.

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@"Gwaihir.1745" said:Also I fully support this staying permanently with changes. I see this as an opportunity to give siege heavy handed nerfs that cant happen while downstate rally exists. Right now people sitting in acs can just be picked up over and over. With this change they can't. If this change were permanent we could nerf the hell out of siege and get our characters back to the ones doing the fighting.Somehow I don't think "using siege becomes actively suicidal" will result in Anet making it weaker...

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There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

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@"Ganathar.4956" said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

There are classes which are too strong in a zerg vs zerg setting and they are so strong to even cover any sort of small scale because they have access to OP ressing traits likehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion ; when the game came out it was possible for a small skilled group to take on a larger zerg and everybody enjoyed wvw which was several times more populated than now then ..HoT happened and it gave us : reapers which were merely the beginning of the end

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Ganathar.4956" said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

There are classes which are too strong in a zerg vs zerg setting and they are so strong to even cover any sort of small scale because they have access to OP ressing traits like
; when the game came out it was possible for a small skilled group to take on a larger zerg and everybody enjoyed wvw which was several times more populated than now then ..HoT happened and it gave us : reapers which were merely the beginning of the end

That's accurate and all, but it doesn't really address my points. You are simply shifting the OPness to different builds. Without proper rebalancing, you will simply have a different form of cancer. I wouldn't mind a small group engaging a larger one and winning because of skill, but what I do mind is something like stealth gank groups abusing this to kill people and leave so quickly that it's impossible to respond. The only counter is another such group, because it's only then that you can catch up to their mobility.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

There are classes which are too strong in a zerg vs zerg setting and they are so strong to even cover any sort of small scale because they have access to OP ressing traits like
; when the game came out it was possible for a small skilled group to take on a larger zerg and everybody enjoyed wvw which was several times more populated than now then ..HoT happened and it gave us : reapers which were merely the beginning of the end

That's accurate and all, but it doesn't really address my points. You are simply shifting the OPness to different builds. Without proper rebalancing, you will simply have a different form of cancer. I wouldn't mind a small group engaging a larger one and winning because of skill, but what I do mind is something like stealth gank groups abusing this to kill people and leave so quickly that it's impossible to respond. The only counter is another such group, because it's only then that you can catch up to their mobility.

So like strategy and stuff right?

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@Trajan.4953 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

There are classes which are too strong in a zerg vs zerg setting and they are so strong to even cover any sort of small scale because they have access to OP ressing traits like
; when the game came out it was possible for a small skilled group to take on a larger zerg and everybody enjoyed wvw which was several times more populated than now then ..HoT happened and it gave us : reapers which were merely the beginning of the end

That's accurate and all, but it doesn't really address my points. You are simply shifting the OPness to different builds. Without proper rebalancing, you will simply have a different form of cancer. I wouldn't mind a small group engaging a larger one and winning because of skill, but what I do mind is something like stealth gank groups abusing this to kill people and leave so quickly that it's impossible to respond. The only counter is another such group, because it's only then that you can catch up to their mobility.

So like strategy and stuff right?

Hardly, stealth ganking is cheese because those classes also happen to be the ones with insane mobility. If you can't catch up to them, there is not much you can really do. Really, saying strategy and stuff is easy, but these ress builds are already part of a startegy, they are simply a strategy that you do not like. I don't like it either, but with the way the game is balanced atm, it is a necessity. That's why I'm saying that no downstate would need a massive rebalance.

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@Trajan.4953 said:So a counter to those groups that are behaving like that would be a group of your own doing the same thing right? Is that not a strategy to counter their strategy? Is not not the whole idea of World versus World?

That doesn't make anything better though. It's already problematic that you need a similar group comp to your enemy to play effectively against them. This doesn't change that, it just changes the optimal group comp and makes a different set of classes useless in WvW.

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It's a nice change to breathe some life into WvW. I don't think it should be permanent, but perhaps a recurring thing, like one week a month.

To those asking for this to be permanent: Remember that it used to be that we could res people in combat and one death would rally 5 people. Over the years, and not too long ago, they changed it so you couldn't res if you were in combat, and one death would + 1 rally. Those were much needed improvements.

I find that the rally mechanic is just wrong, but downstate offers an interesting game mechanic that adds a dimension to fights. I think it is one of the things that gives GW2 it's fighting identity. One has to make a choice to risk standing still doing nothing to res an ally, risking dying yourslef. Skills and traits are an exception and perhaps need to be looked at more closely as they offer very low risk but great reward. The rally mechanic, on the other hand means that the fight will snowball. It creates a large inbalance between sides. Getting rid of it would equal the playing field.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:There are some positives to no downstate, but you also need to aknowledge the negatives too. High mobility bursters are way too strong in small scale with this, they were already too strong but with no downstate it becomes even more insanely imbalanced. ACs get even stronger, which is not a good thing. And some classes/specs that needed downstate to even be functional suddenly become kitten tier. If this was to become permanent, there would have to be a huge WvW rebalance, including siege, skills traits and basically everything. The burst is way too high right now for this to be good. The game was designed with downstate in mind.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to there being a massive rebalance though, but let's be realistic. The balance team cannot handle it, so permanently having no downstate will not happen.

That has much more to do with power creep with HoT and PoF. Different topic.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:So a counter to those groups that are behaving like that would be a group of your own doing the same thing right? Is that not a strategy to counter their strategy? Is not not the whole idea of World versus World?

That doesn't make anything better though. It's already problematic that you need a similar group comp to your enemy to play effectively against them. This doesn't change that, it just changes the optimal group comp and makes a different set of classes useless in WvW.

Pick teams used to be very common in GvG's, and that showed us that no, comps were not NEARLY as static as they are now. Now in GvG's the notable different between comps is 2-3 players. Previously the comps were extremely varied and guilds had much more identifiable styles.

Subjectively, I think it does make things better. There's far more dynamic, skill-based gameplay from shifting the classes that are valuable vs. not valuable from ScourgeFirebrand to Thief and Mesmer. Even if they had to be nerfed some to make this permanent. Players have so much more impact on their group's success with pick teams existing and being important. Having a backline rev with the skill to navigate a gank attempt would be a big deal compared to the average GW2 skilled player that just falls over without pressing any buttons in the appropriate order. There's inherently more ability to display skill with more situations being possible, and with downstate, pick is not possible.

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