How to deal with Mirages?

[whoknocks.4935]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"EvilSardine.9635" said:There's no counter. You cannot beat the best spec in the game.

The spec described in OP is the best spec? Lol

He's describing what sounds like a full minstrel mirage - though I fail to see the point of such a mirage, a chrono is usually much more popular. The OP was fighting 1-2 minutes against him not doing any damage. Just like fighting a full minstrel druid, full minstrel firebrand, full minstrel ele, full minstrel spellbreaker, pick your poison. Hell even a full minstrel thief will be immortal. But they rarely have enough damage to kill anyone unless they heavily outnumber them. With that kind of combat time the OP could have ran halfway across the map into an objective.

If it had been the best spec in the game the fight would have lasted < 5 seconds and the mesmer would have taken considerable damage when hit because glass is still glass.

And if it

was

a skilled mirage on the best spec... OP lasted a very, very long time so I would start to wonder what he was running that a mirage couldnt bring down, lol.

He wasn't minstrel at all, and after i had all my skills on cd he killed me from 100% to 0 hp in 3 to 5 seconds, I lasted that long dodging, kiting, blocking, healing myself while trying to burst him of course and apparently he was impossible to hit due to all evades perfecf timed and instead I was eaten alive. He seemed never run off cooldowns and he was spamming clones for all the fight, I sincerely dunno how that was possible, other mirages (maybe more inexperienced) give me problems but i can see how im hitting them when they finish the evades, but this game was another level, kept constant pressure on me while chaining an evade after another.I have no troubles dealing even with spellbreakers, which are considered kinda op at the moment, their skills are so easy to read and dodge and so the fight is so much fun, against mirage is just a stupid screen mess filled with clones and shatter sound in your earplugs and i have no clue what to do...

Well, what are you implying? That he cheated? Some players can squirt clones like there's no tomorrow (bonus points for actually being two mesmers in the same outfits) but a video always help if you want tips on how to fight them.

What where you playing? The thing is, skill and builds matter

alot

sometimes. Hell, sometimes even pure luck (or seriously bad timing on the opposing side). Maybe you where simply hardcountered in every sense of the word by him. I dont know, I didnt see the fight. That the fight lasted 1-2 minutes yet he could kill you in 3-5 seconds indicate he was either glassy and

incredibly

good at avoiding damage - and trust me, once in a while I've seen such mirages that completely

owned

me even though I can kill an overwhelming majority of other mirages I meet. Or he was some bunker that hardcountered your build, such as trailblazers vs zero condi removal. Even being built heavy I've falled for surprise-25-confusion-stacks-up-the-kitten in group fights and died in seconds too - even though I can later duel the same player and roflstomp him taking near zero damage. Those kinds of builds against zero condi removal is a true noob filter because all they need to do is kite you if you cant do pressure in return.

TL;DR are there good mesmers? For sure. Are there very good mesmers? A few per matchup almost guaranteed. Are there bad mesmers? Uuuuuuuuugh...

(who needs clones anyway)

This really isnt any different from any other class. I've met druids I couldnt bring down. Firebrands haha... They dont even take damage sometimes. Weavers that brushed off damage. Dont even get me started on spellbreakers. If the top 25% of mesmers are hard to kill because they got evades, the bottom 75% of spellbreakers survives on hp regen and invoulnerable stance alone while having zerker damage.

But it's so easy to counter spellbreaker, I was playing dragonhunter btw, and I have zero troubles against spellbreaker, only good ones who perfect dodge are tough to get down, and one mistake cost me the win. But if I lose against a good spellbreaker I know why it's happened, I was stupid to proc an unexpected full counter, I didn't dodge fast enough shield stun, I didn't pressure them with bow and I let them kite and regen from me, I pop their passive stab and endure pain, I'm patient and i attack when he is vulnerable.

Against this mirage I have no clue, too many things to dodge, too many things to block, too small window to do anything against his stupid chain rotation of evades, and the screen is constantly fluttered with 5 clones spawned every second.

I have zero troubles against chronos, they are way more easy to deal with...

[mulzi.8273]

@Maxxamillion.4125 said:Mesmers are OP 1v1 and need serious nerfing.You have power builds that can one shot, and condi build that push out 5k ticks of confusion and burning.All this while being invisible and having lots of decoys out.But Anet would rather focus on utterly destroying scourge with obscene nerfs because more ppl moan about it.Why don't you nerf mes Anet? I really don't get it.

Mesmer is the baby of a certain developer who has alot of pull. I'm afraid you will never see the mesmer brought on line.

[Dawdler.8521]

@whoknocks.4935 said:But it's so easy to counter spellbreaker, I was playing dragonhunter btw, and I have zero troubles against spellbreaker, only good ones who perfect dodge are tough to get down, and one mistake cost me the win. But if I lose against a good spellbreaker I know why it's happened, I was stupid to proc an unexpected full counter, I didn't dodge fast enough shield stun, I didn't pressure them with bow and I let them kite and regen from me, I pop their passive stab and endure pain, I'm patient and i attack when he is vulnerable.

Against this mirage I have no clue, too many things to dodge, too many things to block, too small window to do anything against his stupid chain rotation of evades, and the screen is constantly fluttered with 5 clones spawned every second.

I have zero troubles against chronos, they are way more easy to deal with...

See, isnt it kind of funny? I have problems with most spellbreakers I meet. Not all of them, but even bad ones are sometimes near immortal.

Either way a dragonhunter will generally have problems against mirage because just like the mirage, they are a one trick pony in terms of killing nasty builds (goes for any kiter). Traps down and pull with F1 - that kills many glass builds. But if its dodged, then you can counter them pretty hard because they have low hp pool and mediocre evades - especially if they are still in longbow. When I fight dragonhunters, I bait out the pull every chance I get and is very alert if the pull do happen. Which incidently is also exactly like fighting mirages, bait out the shatter and counterattack.

I've been killed by really good dh (in fact out of guardians, dhs and firebrands only dh is the real threat when roaming) but most cant cover their kittens and explode.

If you have zero problems against chronos you havent met a truly good chrono boontank yet, because they can be far, far worse than any mirage and pretty much untouchable. But then again they are far and wide between. I think I've met one in 6 months, lol. I think we where 4 people that tried to bring him down over a 10 minute period. We still failed.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:But it's so easy to counter spellbreaker, I was playing dragonhunter btw, and I have zero troubles against spellbreaker, only good ones who perfect dodge are tough to get down, and one mistake cost me the win. But if I lose against a good spellbreaker I know why it's happened, I was stupid to proc an unexpected full counter, I didn't dodge fast enough shield stun, I didn't pressure them with bow and I let them kite and regen from me, I pop their passive stab and endure pain, I'm patient and i attack when he is vulnerable.

Against this mirage I have no clue, too many things to dodge, too many things to block, too small window to do anything against his stupid chain rotation of evades, and the screen is constantly fluttered with 5 clones spawned every second.

I have zero troubles against chronos, they are way more easy to deal with...

See, isnt it kind of funny? I have problems with most spellbreakers I meet. Not all of them, but even bad ones are sometimes near immortal.

Either way a dragonhunter will generally have problems against mirage because just like the mirage, they are a one trick pony in terms of killing nasty builds (goes for any kiter). Traps down and pull with F1 - that kills many glass builds.

But

if its dodged, then you can counter them pretty hard because they have low hp pool and mediocre evades - especially if they are still in longbow. When I fight dragonhunters, I bait out the pull every chance I get and is very alert if the pull do happen. Which incidently is also exactly like fighting mirages, bait out the shatter and counterattack.

I've been killed by really good dh (in fact out of guardians, dhs and firebrands only dh is the real threat when roaming) but most cant cover their kittens and explode.

If you have zero problems against chronos you havent met a truly good chrono boontank yet, because they can be far, far worse than any mirage and pretty much untouchable. But then again they are far and wide between. I think I've met one in 6 months, lol. I think we where 4 people that tried to bring him down over a 10 minute period. We still failed.

Usually all the chrono i see around play power builds, gs sword/shield standard build, probably staff sword/shield on some variant, and it's easy to pull them or interrupt their shield block with bow.

With spellbreaker you can't go full on mode and waste all your abilities, you cc immediately them to proc passive stab, when it ends you cc and damage them enough to proc.passive endure pain, when it ends pressure even more until they pop the active endure pain, then you go full on damage negating them to kite you and regen, use symbols only after they used full counter or its an easy proc for them.Tough spellbreakers are the ones who lands perfect dodges on your main skills, but without making many mistakes you still have a decent chance at beating them.

I just started ignoring mirages when i find them roaming around, too unfun too play against, even bad mirages who i caught off guard immediately pop 3 skills and teleport and literally 3 seconds they are at 3000 range, and it's impossible for me to chase them, then of course they go stealth and ambush you with the stupid oneshot combo rotation because you have everything on cooldown.

Best strategy is avoiding them, not worth trying to fight.

[Rysdude.3824]

@mulzi.8273 said:

@Maxxamillion.4125 said:Mesmers are OP 1v1 and need serious nerfing.You have power builds that can one shot, and condi build that push out 5k ticks of confusion and burning.All this while being invisible and having lots of decoys out.But Anet would rather focus on utterly destroying scourge with obscene nerfs because more ppl moan about it.Why don't you nerf mes Anet? I really don't get it.

Mesmer is the baby of a certain developer who has alot of pull. I'm afraid you will never see the mesmer brought on line.

Eeshk. This is disturbing if its true.

[RedShark.9548]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:But it's so easy to counter spellbreaker, I was playing dragonhunter btw, and I have zero troubles against spellbreaker, only good ones who perfect dodge are tough to get down, and one mistake cost me the win. But if I lose against a good spellbreaker I know why it's happened, I was stupid to proc an unexpected full counter, I didn't dodge fast enough shield stun, I didn't pressure them with bow and I let them kite and regen from me, I pop their passive stab and endure pain, I'm patient and i attack when he is vulnerable.

Against this mirage I have no clue, too many things to dodge, too many things to block, too small window to do anything against his stupid chain rotation of evades, and the screen is constantly fluttered with 5 clones spawned every second.

I have zero troubles against chronos, they are way more easy to deal with...

See, isnt it kind of funny? I have problems with most spellbreakers I meet. Not all of them, but even bad ones are sometimes near immortal.

Either way a dragonhunter will generally have problems against mirage because just like the mirage, they are a one trick pony in terms of killing nasty builds (goes for any kiter). Traps down and pull with F1 - that kills many glass builds.

But

if its dodged, then you can counter them pretty hard because they have low hp pool and mediocre evades - especially if they are still in longbow. When I fight dragonhunters, I bait out the pull every chance I get and is very alert if the pull do happen. Which incidently is also exactly like fighting mirages, bait out the shatter and counterattack.

I've been killed by really good dh (in fact out of guardians, dhs and firebrands only dh is the real threat when roaming) but most cant cover their kittens and explode.

If you have zero problems against chronos you havent met a truly good chrono boontank yet, because they can be far, far worse than any mirage and pretty much untouchable. But then again they are far and wide between. I think I've met one in 6 months, lol. I think we where 4 people that tried to bring him down over a 10 minute period. We still failed.

chrono boontanks are no roamer tho, sure you cant kill them but neither can they, they are just for zergsthe enemies you described so far are almost all zerg specs, fb guards, weaver,chrono tank...are you just farming zerglings? against spellbreaker just be patient, trigger endure pains, kite and dont waste burst into defense skills, all cds gone you burst and he dies

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I'm just glad Deadeye's Mark refreshes now when killing the clone its on.

[Tom.5914]

So what class ist best to kill mirages ?And yes I hate these suckers in wvw who play this stupid fotm-build and think they are great

[Kovu.7560]

@Tom.5914 said:So what class ist best to kill mirages ?

Another mirage.

~ Kovu

[Tom.5914]

not an option, I would feel bad if I would play this idiotic class

[Kovu.7560]

@Tom.5914 said:not an option, I would feel bad if I would play this idiotic class

I don't know, then...Thief maybe?

~ Kovu

[Simonoly.4352]

@Tom.5914 said:So what class ist best to kill mirages ?

So let's entertain that we're talking 1v1 here....it depends on the Mirage build but the following are good or decent counters to both condi and power Mirage:

All Thief builds (except maybe P/P spammer)Core meta roaming Warrior and SpellbreakerDruid (not LB camper)Medi hammer GuardianMirage - jokes aside...Mirage is VERY good at killing other Mirage in a similar vein to Thief Vs Thief.

Good against Power Mirage only:

Herald (S/S + Staff variant in particular)SoulbeastHolosmith

Good against condi Mirage only because they can pretty much ignore its condi burst and maybe even whittle it down and win:

FirebrandWeaver

Certainly not a comprehensive list and I think there are other things that work too that others might know about. This is just my experience of playing against competent players since PoF was released.

[Zaraki.5784]

Unless you are a God of PvP or another Mirage there's no way to deal with Mirages untill anet will nerf them (=never).

[Tom.5914]

When I watch the mirage video where he kills 3 people at once and thinks he did this because he is a good player I have to vomit.

[Devon.5672]

just came back from a 6 month break and dno what all the fuzz is about, ive not played mirage myself, but i have and still play alot of chrono(stunlock) and have no problem whatsoever with mirages, imo they seem way worse than chrono, dont even wanna touch it. Also my spellbreaker and/or condizerk, reaper and soulbeast have no problem with mirages. just time the ur cc and condicleanse at the right time and its really easy

[Arcaedus.7290]

@Simonoly.4352 said:

@Tom.5914 said:So what class ist best to kill mirages ?

So let's entertain that we're talking 1v1 here....it depends on the Mirage build but the following are good or decent counters to both condi and power Mirage:

All Thief builds (except maybe P/P spammer)Core meta roaming Warrior and SpellbreakerDruid (not LB camper)Medi hammer Guardian

Nope. I thought medi hammer guard would work too in theory. It definitely doesn't.

If you open with your burst, the mirage can very easily negate all of it with a single button press meanwhile counter-bursting you. You'll eat at least some of it no matter what you do since mirror blade is unblockable.

If you open with hammer 5/a CC, they can either blink out, or jaunt out of the circle. It will still knock them down, but they will be able to port outside of the ring and then they have their EZ mode stunbreak.

Mirage easily has enough mobility or ranged pressure to out-sustain a core guard regardless of build.

I've found that DH is actually one of the best builds on guard for downing a mirage (both condi and power). You have to significantly outplay them and you can't ever trade bursts (they will always come out on top). You also have to get them to come in 2-3 times for bursts rather than use their remaining mobility to run, but you have the tools to do all that.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The obvious strat is you wait until they are either /afk or are looking through their inventory, salvaging all the loot bags - with a surprise jump on them, you might have a chance.

[Hackuuna.4085]

You should play as a mirage to understand the times they are most vulnerable. There's a few classes that can deal with them but again you need to know their skills and cooldowns as well as how they rotate them. FWIW, my experience as mirage is that the vast majority of players are button mashers and mirage players are no exception. If you know what you are doing you'll do fine against most.

[Tom.5914]

it is so sick how less possibilites there are against this pesky class

[Brother.1504]

Same strategy for any 1v1 offensive pressure balanced with knowing how to sustain. Best advice I ever got about dueling from a pro player in another game. Play the class your weak against you’ll see the weakness.

[FASTCAR.7831]

They have no effect on any toon I playCondi or power

[rektu.8209]

I play daredevil S/D with DA/trickery, and i have to say that i beat any mesmer i face in WvW, condi or power, power will mostly go down very fast, condi can take some time to beat, but in the end i always down them. The thing that helps allot is the double plasma from improv trait, once u have stole from the mesmer use plasma once, just AA him till haste is depleted and use it again, AA again and they start kiting with n2 of s/d, dodging at the right time with power mesmer is also crucial. I understand mesmer i really hard for most ppl to beat, because they are really overtuned. But for me they are no problem in WvW.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

As someone who has played condi mirage, were not that "un-counterable". Granted they main/sustain 2 condis (confusion and torment) with a small side of burn (which are both negated if you are able to either stop moving, or stop using abilities for a moment). They have no or little condi cleanse and can easily be condi bursted. Like any decent or better player, you always keep a target over the real mirage before you burst (Look for food/utility icons and who has the most boons).

Anything that can kill more clones fast (AoE's) gimps their damage output. Traps (ranger/DH/Thief) dont work as well as its easy for us to send a clone to trigger it (however with DH heal trap that is a blessing for DH's)

They technically counter other classes with little cleanse or resistance (like DPS mirage for example), however with only 2/3 condis t hat pose a threat, sometimes its better to wait to use the cleanse/resistance and allow yourself to get shattered on (thus cleansing/negating while their stuff is on cool down).

One thing I will note however in these "x is OP" threads, is that rarely those who complain dont post their build. This makes me believe they dont care to learn how to use what they have access to to help them, as its easier to cry nerfs. I complain about the insane barrier stacking of scourges, however I just adjust my play style and adapt to beat them down. Some classes I play makes it harder than others, however I dont/rarely run meta and actually have no issues changing my build to accommodate fighting stronger classes.

If anyone in NA needs help fighting condi mirage, look me up. Ill re-gear my mirage and spar. Or if anyone actually wants to learn how to beat them, maybe post some build/class details and ppl here would probably be glad to assist :)

[Lahmia.2193]

Lets hope anet never adds another spec that revolves around dodge.