Counterpoint: This double XP weekend was not so great

[aspirine.5839]

It was the best week in WvW since long a long time. Only this weekend shows how good it was for me as we are getting blobbed by people pressing 1 or pressing rez skills. And if you do not have the numbers you cannot do a damn thing about it, and last week we finally could. :)

[RedShark.9548]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:

@"Adzekul.3104" said:3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

are you kidding me ? anet has always favored casuals not "elitists"...what are you even talking about? gw2 was MEANT to be a casual environment, they dont even have an esports scene anymore because they are too casual ?

also downstate heavily favors larger groups,how do some ppl get the idea that smaller groups benefit more from downstate than the larger group they fight against? tte bigger numbers can way easier rezz their downs while still dishing out dmg, the smaller group has to choose between rezzing or doing dmg to keep tje big blob to run them over with an endless push, even is some go down they just keep going and the downs will get rezzed by ppl running in the back

And that is the point. This is the one pvp-type game that those not blessed with elite-level skills/reflexes/etc can play and enjoy without being constantly dead, and the elitits here want to take even that away from us. There is so much arrogance/derogatory/look-down-your-nose comments at casual-level players here that it sickens me. You have plenty of no-down-state games where it's fast-twitch-or-die that many of us have no chance to enjoy. Don't try to make gw2 another one of those games that excludes the casuals.

No, it's not just lazy/l2p either. Some of us have physical/neurological handicaps that make that level of play impossible.

not sure why you are mad now, you said that favoring elitist was always an anet tradition, which is NOT true, you even admitted itand im not sure how exactly downstate helps handicapped ppl to fight against ppl without those handicaps, when they have downstate at their disposal aswellit would only make a difference when handicapped ppl have downstate and those that arent dont have the downstate

[BlueMelody.6398]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:

@"Adzekul.3104" said:3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

are you kidding me ? anet has always favored casuals not "elitists"...what are you even talking about? gw2 was MEANT to be a casual environment, they dont even have an esports scene anymore because they are too casual ?

also downstate heavily favors larger groups,how do some ppl get the idea that smaller groups benefit more from downstate than the larger group they fight against? tte bigger numbers can way easier rezz their downs while still dishing out dmg, the smaller group has to choose between rezzing or doing dmg to keep tje big blob to run them over with an endless push, even is some go down they just keep going and the downs will get rezzed by ppl running in the back

And that is the point. This is the one pvp-type game that those not blessed with elite-level skills/reflexes/etc can play and enjoy without being constantly dead, and the elitits here want to take even that away from us. There is so much arrogance/derogatory/look-down-your-nose comments at casual-level players here that it sickens me. You have plenty of no-down-state games where it's fast-twitch-or-die that many of us have no chance to enjoy. Don't try to make gw2 another one of those games that excludes the casuals.

No, it's not just lazy/l2p either. Some of us have physical/neurological handicaps that make that level of play impossible.

not sure why you are mad now, you said that favoring elitist was always an anet tradition, which is NOT true, you even admitted it

I never said that. You are quoting the wrong person.

It was the best week in WvW since long a long time. Only this weekend shows how good it was for me as we are getting blobbed by people pressing 1 or pressing rez skills. And if you do not have the numbers you cannot do a kitten thing about it, and last week we finally could. :)

Yet another bit of condescension I've seen from a lot of people, assuming that large-scale players just press 1 and do nothing else. I favor large-scale fights, and contrary to yours' (and others') assertions, we do not just press 1 and res. We have entire skillsets and rotations that we use just as much as the small-scale and soloists use. Stop equating "zerg" with "mindless/1111111" because that simply is not true.

[RedShark.9548]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:

@"Adzekul.3104" said:3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

are you kidding me ? anet has always favored casuals not "elitists"...what are you even talking about? gw2 was MEANT to be a casual environment, they dont even have an esports scene anymore because they are too casual ?

also downstate heavily favors larger groups,how do some ppl get the idea that smaller groups benefit more from downstate than the larger group they fight against? tte bigger numbers can way easier rezz their downs while still dishing out dmg, the smaller group has to choose between rezzing or doing dmg to keep tje big blob to run them over with an endless push, even is some go down they just keep going and the downs will get rezzed by ppl running in the back

And that is the point. This is the one pvp-type game that those not blessed with elite-level skills/reflexes/etc can play and enjoy without being constantly dead, and the elitits here want to take even that away from us. There is so much arrogance/derogatory/look-down-your-nose comments at casual-level players here that it sickens me. You have plenty of no-down-state games where it's fast-twitch-or-die that many of us have no chance to enjoy. Don't try to make gw2 another one of those games that excludes the casuals.

No, it's not just lazy/l2p either. Some of us have physical/neurological handicaps that make that level of play impossible.

not sure why you are mad now, you said that favoring elitist was always an anet tradition, which is NOT true, you even admitted it

I never said that. You are quoting the wrong person.

It was the best week in WvW since long a long time. Only this weekend shows how good it was for me as we are getting blobbed by people pressing 1 or pressing rez skills. And if you do not have the numbers you cannot do a kitten thing about it, and last week we finally could. :)

Yet another bit of condescension I've seen from a lot of people, assuming that large-scale players just press 1 and do nothing else. I favor large-scale fights, and contrary to yours' (and others') assertions, we do

not

just press 1 and res. We have entire skillsets and rotations that we use just as much as the small-scale and soloists use. Stop equating "zerg" with "mindless/1111111" because that simply is not true.

well sorry then, assumed that you are the same person i answered in the first place, nevertheless stands my point, that anet ir the player never tried to exclude casuals, not sure where you get thatalso why do you assume that no downstate means that all the casuals will be constantly dead, thats some weird logic...makes no sense at all, downstate doesnt change anything in most cases anyways (just helps if you have the bigger numbers already and then with equal skill should win anyways) and imo gw2 is way less forgiving when it comes to lack of skill or reflexes than other games that have no downstate, because of all the oneshots that are going on in pve and pvpgoing by your logic id have to say that all those casuals should go to another mmo that doesnt have as many oneshots flying around with slower combat so you dont need those reflexes, but i dont, because im not trying to exclude someone (like you try to exclude ppl that want to play more competetive) instead of ranting about those "elitists" why not think about ways to make both groups happy? ever thought about that?and yea there might be games with no downstate pvp but those have other flaws, that weight way heavier than the downstate issue, all the other mmos ive tried after gw2 felt clunky as hell and i couldnt stand to play them longer than a few hours

edit: btw what have elitist already taken away from you? sounds like they did from your "they even want to take that away"

[aspirine.5839]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:

@"Adzekul.3104" said:3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

are you kidding me ? anet has always favored casuals not "elitists"...what are you even talking about? gw2 was MEANT to be a casual environment, they dont even have an esports scene anymore because they are too casual ?

also downstate heavily favors larger groups,how do some ppl get the idea that smaller groups benefit more from downstate than the larger group they fight against? tte bigger numbers can way easier rezz their downs while still dishing out dmg, the smaller group has to choose between rezzing or doing dmg to keep tje big blob to run them over with an endless push, even is some go down they just keep going and the downs will get rezzed by ppl running in the back

And that is the point. This is the one pvp-type game that those not blessed with elite-level skills/reflexes/etc can play and enjoy without being constantly dead, and the elitits here want to take even that away from us. There is so much arrogance/derogatory/look-down-your-nose comments at casual-level players here that it sickens me. You have plenty of no-down-state games where it's fast-twitch-or-die that many of us have no chance to enjoy. Don't try to make gw2 another one of those games that excludes the casuals.

No, it's not just lazy/l2p either. Some of us have physical/neurological handicaps that make that level of play impossible.

not sure why you are mad now, you said that favoring elitist was always an anet tradition, which is NOT true, you even admitted it

I never said that. You are quoting the wrong person.

It was the best week in WvW since long a long time. Only this weekend shows how good it was for me as we are getting blobbed by people pressing 1 or pressing rez skills. And if you do not have the numbers you cannot do a kitten thing about it, and last week we finally could. :)

Yet another bit of condescension I've seen from a lot of people, assuming that large-scale players just press 1 and do nothing else. I favor large-scale fights, and contrary to yours' (and others') assertions, we do

not

just press 1 and res. We have entire skillsets and rotations that we use just as much as the small-scale and soloists use. Stop equating "zerg" with "mindless/1111111" because that simply is not true.

You do know why it was so easy the first weekend for small scale players/groups to hunt zergs in the no-downstate week. Because the zerglings did not do a single thing to change their builds. All offense, no defense because they get carried in large groups. Take that away and they start falling like flies :)And of course they are not just mashing 1, that is just from the days in the beginning when all you could do is press 1 in a 3-way SM fight. So it used to describe zerglings now. And i also know that they sometimes press buttons to resurrect, and have 30 pull skills with them against defenders. So that is indeed way more than 1111.

[X T D.6458]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@atheria.2837 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

It's not competitive at all.

Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

What you described would be present with or without down state.

WvW is not a "team" game mode, PvP is because you have set teams with a set amount of people that play matches with a fixed timer. WvW is a factions type of gameplay where you can play whichever way you want whether its solo or with a team.

Your server is your team as you work together towards a common goal.

No, its not. There are no set standards or requirements in WvW for players. You can literally be the only person from a server playing in WvW and a matchup will still run normally, even if there is nobody from a server nothing will change. Team based content is different as there are fixed numbers of players, and rules. WvW is completely open in how you choose to play. This appeals to many people who like to have more freedom and flexibility in playstyles.

No it won’t as that’s nearly impossible for you to be the only one playing WvW for your server or set of servers. Everything you do helps your team (i.e. linked servers) through a common goal.

I suggest relooking at the definition of team based content. There is no cap on what is considered a team. You’re using what team means in one game mode, within the game, and applying it to what a team means overall. That would be incorrect.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/team

That wasnt my point, its not about how probable it is. WvW is 24/7 content, it does not matter if there are players from a server on a map everything still goes on. WvW is a factional type of system, its not team based. WvW does have caps imposed, there are population caps for each map and each server, but no population requirement for a server unless they are determining whether or not it is a host or a link.

[neven.3785]

in my opinion not being able to get tags on down for loot was a positive point for no downstate. You should contribute to the kill in order loot the bag, not just clean up after other peoples work. If you really care about that possible loot bag as a support player, then equip a skill for tags, or roll something else. If you still have trouble getting loot, then perhaps actually play the game instead of mindless zerging in a queue blob.

as for elitists/hardcore vs casuals... Both camps had people for and against the event week. I run with casuals, most of us enjoyed the week. Some hardcore siege monkey on YB may not have liked it though, as they couldn't be rezzed when blown up on their piece of siege.

While i enjoyed the event, i would not think its a permanent change that will go over well as there are other player demographs that are affected and would rather people not quit the game mode.. Would love for it to stay as an event in rotation, or tied into outnumbered.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@atheria.2837 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

It's not competitive at all.

Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

What you described would be present with or without down state.

WvW is not a "team" game mode, PvP is because you have set teams with a set amount of people that play matches with a fixed timer. WvW is a factions type of gameplay where you can play whichever way you want whether its solo or with a team.

Your server is your team as you work together towards a common goal.

No, its not. There are no set standards or requirements in WvW for players. You can literally be the only person from a server playing in WvW and a matchup will still run normally, even if there is nobody from a server nothing will change. Team based content is different as there are fixed numbers of players, and rules. WvW is completely open in how you choose to play. This appeals to many people who like to have more freedom and flexibility in playstyles.

No it won’t as that’s nearly impossible for you to be the only one playing WvW for your server or set of servers. Everything you do helps your team (i.e. linked servers) through a common goal.

I suggest relooking at the definition of team based content. There is no cap on what is considered a team. You’re using what team means in one game mode, within the game, and applying it to what a team means overall. That would be incorrect.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/team

That wasnt my point, its not about how probable it is. WvW is 24/7 content, it does not matter if there are players from a server on a map everything still goes on. WvW is a factional type of system, its not team based. WvW does have caps imposed, there are population caps for each map and each server, but no population requirement for a server unless they are determining whether or not it is a host or a link.

Again, team-based doesn’t have a cap on how many players can be considered a part of it. A team can consist of 2 or a million plus players. You’re applying a narrow set of rules from sPvP to the entire definition of team-based which is incorrect.

If you’re so focused on GW2 being the epitome of what “team-based” is defined as:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Team

One goal of world restructuring is to balance teams

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring/p1

[Straegen.9534]

1 and 2 should have nothing to do with the downed state. Loot in WvW is awful. The downed state shouldn't be a "fix" for that. Besides, getting loot on a kill a player had nothing to do with is silly.

The third one is just silly. Numbers and coverage are a massive advantage. Both are the defining measure of scoring in WvW. The downed state reinforces the numbers mechanic. On every level skill should have a great opportunity to upset numbers. The removal of the downed state gave skilled players in outnumbered fights a chance they didn't have before.