What happened to Commanders?

[Sovereign.1093]

@Nate.3927 said:I used to tag almost every day for maybe 2-3 hours a day. I stopped because it ended up feeling like a second job (herding cats is an appropriate description), one that doesn't pay at all. Public tags also often get abused by people who seem to have unreasonable demands e.g. I was once abused on map chat for not rushing to help defend a keep that was just lost (50+ attackers). I literally just loaded in from another map with a small group of maybe 6 people. The keep was already lost by the time my game finished loading and our group of 6 wouldn't make a difference anyway against 50. There was no cross map callout made, none of us in my small group even knew the keep was under attack.

I play video games to have fun and relax, not to have a second job.

I still tag occasionally, just usually private/invisible tags.

i feel you.

the amount of players we can interact to is not many. so i opted for my guild and those in ts.

pretty fun vs public tagging.

[Zephyra.4709]

Public tags also often get abused by people who seem to have unreasonable demands

Sadly, there are a select few who take the game a little too seriously. They want to win no matter what or wish every action a commander takes plays by their rules, despite never tagging themselves. As the driver you know what your squad is capable of yet the relentless screeches of certain individuals cry in chat that you're not doing your job properly when you're the only tag across all maps trying to help the server out.

[Sylosi.6503]

Most actual dedicated, veteran WvW players have left the game over the years because WvW has become an increasingly pale shadow of its former self (and Anet never addressed the fundamental issues with the game mode, other than lag to an extent) , most commanders over the years came from that group of players, so the result should be obvious.

[Sovereign.1093]

i doubt thats the reason they left. a competitive gamer will look for a game that makes money. get paid for what you are good at. =p if lucky

besides there are many new games that came about 2013 onwards.

[sephiroth.4217]

I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

[sephiroth.4217]

@"Zephyra.4709" said:

Public tags also often get abused by people who seem to have unreasonable demands

Sadly, there are a select few who take the game a little too seriously. They want to win no matter what or wish every action a commander takes plays by their rules, despite never tagging themselves. As the driver you know what your squad is capable of yet the relentless screeches of certain individuals cry in chat that you're not doing your job properly when you're the only tag across all maps trying to help the server out.

That's where you tag down and say in map chat "ok, I'll let you tag then if you can do it better" then watch map chat explode at them for it because no one else is willing to tag up, I did this a few times on the lower tier servers lol

Usually don't hear much from those people after it happens to them once or twice.

[Sovereign.1093]

imo.

wvw is like a weird psycho business partner. he has lots of staff, as your partner both of you have the same weigh in decisions. but he never goes to you direct with business topics. sometimes he will send a good staff. sometimes a bad staff. and you should always remember, bases on your objective to never let his whims get.to.you. you deal with him only in cases it is good for you.

wvw is like that. some coms and players are good, some are bad. but always deal with them or not in where it is in your favor. else, you can ignore them.

so many times in deso where a back seat commander would whine, and so i would challenge them by tagging up. they would, lead, and then get the team killed.

and so players would then after ask me to tag up again. sometimes i do, sometimes me and my guild already run a different tag and closed.

in either way, i do these things because it is in my favor.

remember never tag up or down if only based on others whims. do it because you choose to and not because of the circumstance.

you choose how to react consciously. and if you get backlash, remember, that too shall pass.

commanders per timezone are the life of a server. their guilds, help carry x mold pugs into good players and eventually different guilds at dofferent timezone form alliances. thats just how things are.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

Which is what happens when Etheris pugs go lovable pros, of course. I used to like tagging up casual. Not leading zergs, just something like getting a dozen people tops and actually accomplish something instead of everyone scattering like headless chickens. I made it very clear that the tag was more a courtesy move on "empty" borders - I run here if you wanna follow then follow if not you can still see where I am when roaming and trying to cap stuff or fight. I'm not gonna lead anyone, I'm simply visible.

But no, of course people had to constantly twist that to their own expectations. If I wasnt a minstrel guard then kitten tag down you cant lead so you're not allowed to have a tag, if a known commander descended on the border along with my whooping huge 6 man pink tag then tag the kitten down we need a monoblob aint got room for you, if guilds where going to tag up then please tag down and gtfo of this border where we have trouble defending a T3 tower against 10 people, we need to get our people in and its only 1.5 hours until we start our raid.

Eventually I stopped bothering. I still laugh at times whenever I'm just about to cap a keep or something with a small group and at the same time read "OMG theres no one tagged, do anyone want to gather and cap that keep?".

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

Which is what happens when Etheris pugs go lovable pros, of course. I used to like tagging up casual. Not leading zergs, just something like getting a dozen people tops and actually accomplish something instead of everyone scattering like headless chickens. I made it very clear that the tag was more a courtesy move on "empty" borders - I run here if you wanna follow then follow if not you can still see where I am when roaming and trying to cap stuff or fight. I'm not gonna lead anyone, I'm simply visible.

But no, of course people had to constantly twist that to their own expectations. If I wasnt a minstrel guard then kitten tag down you cant lead so you're not allowed to have a tag, if a known commander descended on the border along with my whooping huge 6 man pink tag then tag the kitten down we need a monoblob aint got room for you, if guilds where going to tag up then please tag down and gtfo of this border where we have trouble defending a T3 tower against 10 people, we need to get our people in and its only 1.5 hours until we start our raid.

Eventually I stopped bothering. I still laugh at times whenever I'm just about to cap a keep or something with a small group and at the same time read "OMG theres no one tagged, do anyone want to gather and cap that keep?".

:/ bad for wvw that attitude of asking commanders to tag down.

factual in nsp, if another tag is up, i am so happy, someone can share the burden. and i dont even mind if someone wants to combine. it is so stressful to be the only tag sometimes.

id rather have 2 to 4 tags working together than one monoblob, which you can kill be picking their tail and flanking.

wvw population is getting less and less over time.

happy to see this one non ts guy who tags and does his thing. elder kevin. always fun he'd fight and kill and cap but hes not in ts and we dont mind. atleast i dont.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

Which is what happens when Etheris pugs go lovable pros, of course. I used to like tagging up casual. Not leading zergs, just something like getting a dozen people tops and actually accomplish something instead of everyone scattering like headless chickens. I made it very clear that the tag was more a courtesy move on "empty" borders - I run here if you wanna follow then follow if not you can still see where I am when roaming and trying to cap stuff or fight. I'm not gonna lead anyone, I'm simply visible.

But no, of course people had to constantly twist that to their own expectations. If I wasnt a minstrel guard then kitten tag down you cant lead so you're not allowed to have a tag, if a known commander descended on the border along with my whooping huge 6 man pink tag then tag the kitten down we need a monoblob aint got room for you, if guilds where going to tag up then please tag down and gtfo of this border where we have trouble defending a T3 tower against 10 people, we need to get our people in and its only 1.5 hours until we start our raid.

Eventually I stopped bothering. I still laugh at times whenever I'm just about to cap a keep or something with a small group and at the same time read "OMG theres no one tagged, do anyone want to gather and cap that keep?".

Yea, I think many people see tags as janitors or something and if you're the only tag, you become defacto Map Lord, regardless of what else you say.

Not sure what's more annoying. Those PPT guys asking for backup against 2 enemy camp flippers, people that ask you to jump map constantly without telling you numbers, or rangers crying you're not giving them stability. Or maybe it's people downing even though there are no enemy players. That is the mystery of the world. Sometimes it's cool coordinating with a guild group, but most of the time they'll just yolo ahead of you and then tell you that they need to put 50 more people on the map and still end up accomplishing little more than your 12 person squad has.

I never really tagged, except on the occasion people were bored and did little more than run down the zerg tails. The last time I actually tagged was last year when someone put the pin on my head for a zerg and I commanded on a base Guardian during the start of PoF. Didn't have it and was pretty much playing once a month so i had no idea what 90% of crap that was killing me though we did alright. But hey, we'll just leave it at that.

But for people that tag in day in and out, I think they've been underappreciated and people deserve what they get when they lose 'em.

Oh well. People reap what they sow.

[STIHL.2489]

@Rimu.7105 said:did WvW die any no one tell me?

Yup.. it's dead.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

Which is what happens when Etheris pugs go lovable pros, of course. I used to like tagging up casual. Not leading zergs, just something like getting a dozen people tops and actually accomplish something instead of everyone scattering like headless chickens. I made it very clear that the tag was more a courtesy move on "empty" borders - I run here if you wanna follow then follow if not you can still see where I am when roaming and trying to cap stuff or fight. I'm not gonna lead anyone, I'm simply visible.

But no, of course people had to constantly twist that to their own expectations. If I wasnt a minstrel guard then kitten tag down you cant lead so you're not allowed to have a tag, if a known commander descended on the border along with my whooping huge 6 man pink tag then tag the kitten down we need a monoblob aint got room for you, if guilds where going to tag up then please tag down and gtfo of this border where we have trouble defending a T3 tower against 10 people, we need to get our people in and its only 1.5 hours until we start our raid.

Eventually I stopped bothering. I still laugh at times whenever I'm just about to cap a keep or something with a small group and at the same time read "OMG theres no one tagged, do anyone want to gather and cap that keep?".

:/ bad for wvw that attitude of asking commanders to tag down.

it really is and sad truth is that it happens a lot, experienced dawdlers situatuon first hand myself too

[phs.6089]

@"Sovereign.1093" said:what is that?

https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Bristleback

the hero that takes less damage from sides and back

Plague, plague on your GoB, I die in my soul every time I have to go to WvW for that, so boring, so bad game mode (imo)

[Etheri.5406]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I used to love commanding but since being linked into a higher tier I cant command due to the linked servers community....

its pretty much "use teamspeak or detag and make room for someone who will" is what I heard the most, few times I got "its such and suchs time to command from such n such guild".... so I dont mind detagging and going back to roaming, even funnier when I was forced to detag mid winning the defense of SM so a guild commander could take over to flip Klovan and lose SM in the first 5 minutes of his elitism.

Which is what happens when Etheris pugs go lovable pros, of course. I used to like tagging up casual. Not leading zergs, just something like getting a dozen people tops and actually accomplish something instead of everyone scattering like headless chickens. I made it very clear that the tag was more a courtesy move on "empty" borders - I run here if you wanna follow then follow if not you can still see where I am when roaming and trying to cap stuff or fight. I'm not gonna lead anyone, I'm simply visible.

But no, of course people had to constantly twist that to their own expectations. If I wasnt a minstrel guard then kitten tag down you cant lead so you're not allowed to have a tag, if a known commander descended on the border along with my whooping huge 6 man pink tag then tag the kitten down we need a monoblob aint got room for you, if guilds where going to tag up then please tag down and gtfo of this border where we have trouble defending a T3 tower against 10 people, we need to get our people in and its only 1.5 hours until we start our raid.

Eventually I stopped bothering. I still laugh at times whenever I'm just about to cap a keep or something with a small group and at the same time read "OMG theres no one tagged, do anyone want to gather and cap that keep?".

You blame me yet I clearly state I want players to follow their appropriate groups. I also state, go read the toxicity thread again if you like, that you follow commander rules and that there's nothing wrong with casuals commanders. Obviously I don't need to follow them, tho. They also shouldn't just chase another, bigger comm / group as that's clearly not commanding.

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

Then if the only comms they follow are the good ones that get bags, you'er suprised. The nicest community had howmuch respect for other playes? Right, 0. I don't mind roamers. I don't mind other tags. I don't mind guilds no matter how trash. As long as they play on their own, and don't transfer to strong servers to clown around and get carried.

I do mind players following groups they don't agree wiht or respect. If your comm is on TS / disc, and you cannot / refuse to go, then you should leave. If your comm wants decent builds and you're a core ranger with 4 signets you should also go do something else.

I don't doubt you took that harassment on by "evil elitists". Do you think it's not the exact same if an "evil elitist" tags up? Right it is. And the amount of casual players still playing this game willing to harass any comm they follow is pretty damn big. I seem to remember tagging there on my alt and being told, by the pugs who'd refuse to come TS, to go towards the other side of the map to backcap or start building ACs in towers. They wouldn't listen to anything I tried to tell them, continued to play their own game around me then tell comms what to do. That was after they already lost half their guilds, but still had RT, kale and some others. You figure they'd realise by then they should care about any comms still willing to tag for them, but nope. No suprise the remainder is gone soon too.

There are no comms left because the communities died. Because most players are unwilling to interact with a community. Add to that the abuse and neglect WvW has suffered which made almost all the GvG and most guilds leave and... It's as sylosi stated. Bye bye all the benefits. Yet howmany PPT friends were happy about letting GvG die? ABout making those players that "don't even play wvw" quit? Right. Gl hf bois ;)

Players too mindless to realise they constantly shoot themselves in the foot, especially in their demands towards anet and their understanding of other players.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@phs.6089 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:what is that?

https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Bristleback

the hero that takes less damage from sides and back

Plague, plague on your GoB, I die in my soul every time I have to go to WvW for that, so boring, so bad game mode (imo)

Yet it takes far less time than the GoE. Which is nothing but mindless bouncing from heart to heart, with no random chance of anything occurring.

So, if you want your shiny, we'll take that little part of your soul.

:expressionless:

[Sovereign.1093]

best way to have back up.

have your own voip and friends who will raid with you and recruit.

you can afterall have good relations with 7 to 15. any more will be like not so easy.

[phs.6089]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

Yet it takes far less time than the GoE.

Oh, don't let me start on that please. Here take my soul or what is left of it. I'll wait for spvp season and go eat more salt

[Strider Pj.2193]

@phs.6089 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

Yet it takes far less time than the GoE.

Oh, don't let me start on that please. Here take my soul or what is left of it. I'll wait for spvp season and go eat more salt

Glad you'll enjoy it!

[Diku.2546]

They say a tiger can't change its stripes.

And

Greater lengths of time lends credibility to those that speak truth.

---

Despite being censored, supressed, and even ridiculed...take a peek into the past...for the answer to your question:

"What happend to commanders?"

Keep in mind that I've remained consistent & it's been over 2 years since their postings, but the conclusions are bearing fruit.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-6-June-World-Linking-Schedule-CLOSED/page/5#post6197744

---

ANet continues to go down the wrong path.

Alliance Linking despite the forum "Experts" that support this idea...will once again...fundamentally impact the WvW Community.

World Linking in the past was supported by some of these same forum "Experts", but sadly this idea only brought about Long Term Population decline & Toxic game play that characterizes the game mode as of today Aug 19, 2018.

Alliance Linking will continue this Long Term trend of Population decline & this Casual/Toxic ecosystem will only keep WvW from being able to evolve as a serious competitive eSport that has the potential to become our next SuperBowl for the digital generation that plays it.

---

The real source of WvW not being able to thrive is the Flawed Fixed 3 Way in Tiers Match-Up design.

Remove & Replace the Flawed Fixed 3 Way in Tiers.

A better Match-Up design would re-puprose

<--- ( click link to see how a non-wvw Server Guesting works ) with Weekly Limits on Which Server & How Many Servers that players can pick to fight on.

Players should be able to use a New Match-Up design that allows them to pick who they want to fight, but have to deal with the consequence of their choice in their Match-Up decisions.

Players that stack & pick top worlds to fight against will need to be ready to wait for a seat/table to open up...much like how people need to wait if they only choose to dine at the most popular restaurants in real life.

---

Re-purposing "Server Guesting" with Weekly Limits provides a solution that addresses the Top 3 Chronic Problems of WvW:

1) Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups2) Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds3) Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

Hopefully this answers your question with a strong sense of credibility while providing a better Long-Term Solution for WvW on:

"What happend to commanders?"

Short answer - Churn & Burn is what happened to Commanders

Yours truly,Diku

p.s.See some of my past posts for details...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

[radiantbliss.6875]

@LordMadman.5812 said:I have rejoined this game 2 months ago and I don't see guilds running WVW on blackgate. It's a random commander and then pugs follow, but I only see commanders on the weekends. WVW has been like this since it was in the game though... stomp or get stomped.

Then you're not paying attention. Don't know what time zone you're running in that you only see commanders on weekends. You must not be talking NA timezone because most of the guilds raid during the week publicly, not weekends. BG may not have a lot of guilds, but there are still guilds around and they still run organized public raids.

[Dami.5046]

The days of being told to 'just follow the zerg' are over. Comms got selfish and demanded rules.
Rules.

[Ari.4672]

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dami.5046 said:The days of being told to 'just follow the zerg' are over. Comms got selfish and demanded rules.

Rules.

hehe true.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have never witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.