Deadeye damage is horrible.

[Urejt.5648]

totally agree. rifle dmg is very bad. there is never neough dmg from range so mele classes can easily travel 1500 distance X 2 (or even 3 times when shawdowstepped).

[Orangensaft.7139]

maybe its just more of a PvP spec?

Just like Spellbreaker who didnt bring much for PvE either

And it can fill a niche roll of high solo role dps if you have no mesmer or PS warrior next to you because you can buff yourself perma quickness, fury and 25 might

[katniss.6735]

https://imgur.com/hD4YUMS

[knyy.6427]

While I agree deadeye dmg is really mediocre with d/d and really bad with rifle, it's just not the spec for pve endgame. Even though I would really like to.

Without skill splitting for the rifle you can't buff it too much because of wvw and pvp.

Another big thing, like a lot of ppl are saying, you loosing malice when the mark runs out and you need to build it up again. You could just go with trickery and get a permanent 15% dmg boost with d/d instead and have more initiative to play with. I didn't do the testing yet, but I doubt d/d deadeye has better DPS than trickery core thief d/d.

Edit: maybe deadeye is a bit better because of the elite and the flare, even though you can't cnd backstab when using it. But you can use it during the initiative downtime.

[illenos.5134]

You'll have to split the balance of rifle between pve, pvp and wvw. In wvw it is way too easy to oneshot other roamers or snipe someone down within seconds.

[LazerusKI.7485]

@Balerios.3679 said:

@Luclinraider.2317 said:Deadeye is now basically an unplayable.....at least with a rifle.

The spec is great, and I am loving the new "Marked for Death" and Malice mechanics.

However, the weapon set with Rifle is horrible. I think it may be the worst weapon set on thief.

1: It has possibly the weakest auto attack...at least SB bounces.....its #1 is literally an extremely slow APS that crits for around 1.8k in full ascended/legendary. It's a joke.

2: It's useful for the the imobi....but honestly, it's damage is bad, and 3 initiative for an imobi just isn't worth it.

3: Nerfed into the ground. 4 Initiative for really low damage, even kneeled its damage is just OK, nothing special, other weapons sets put 4 initiative to much better use.

4: While standing this move is just bad, 5 initiative to jump back a tiny bit, does basically an auto attacks worth of damage and empties your initiative bar so that you can't fight after. While kneeling, you get a big sniper hit, but it's damage is abysmal unless you've at least 5 malice on them, which take at least 10-15 seconds to stack even while attacking. Most thief fights are either won or lost by this time, making it useful maybe every now and then in PvP. As far as PvE goes, it just costs too much initiative to ever be worth it. A 20k crit for 6 initiative, or I could just be spamming unload on P/P for way more damage per initiative.

5. It's a crouch....no damage, just mods some other skill, and none in a way that saves the weapon set.

What rifle's real problem is: Their damage per initiative spent is horrible! The weapon set either needs a damage buff to #1 (Like huge....like 100% damage increase), a small increase to #3 damage (10-20%), and #4 standing just needs to be something else. OR It needs its #1 damage increased...(This really just needs to be done no matter what). And the initiative cost of #3 lowered to 3, and #4 lowered to 4 both standing and kneeling. The current weapon set literally gets 2-3 attacks of and you've drained your initiative bar, leaving you stuck auto attacking....which crits for 1.8k w/ 1 attack per second.....unusable.

Thief already has several quick weapon sets, so I personally don't mind this one being a slower, stationary, weapon. But it needs to do the damage to be worth that trade. Cutting our attacks per second in half at less damage per hit and losing all mobility needs to make us hit like trucks, otherwise it's just not worth using. Ive literally seen more DD and Core thiefs in PvP and PvE guild claim today than I see DE, 2 days after the release, and that's because the rifle is just unusable. D/P and P/P have more DPS on single target, Staff has more DPS on groups, and oh ya, you get 3 dodges, and dont lose all mobility. As it stands now, there is not a single reason to use rifle, and the only reason to be DE is for P/P Single Target DPS.

Buff Rifle's moveset by the above....otherwise you need to remove DE from the list of expansion features, it's basically like we didn't get a new specialization at this point.

Writting like this i didnt even read your postWell i dont know abouy pve but in pvp deadeye is broken AF and needs nerfs. Thank you

read the second post and you know why it looks like that.nerfs in pvp? maybe. as long as they dont affect pve, he is bad aenough allready

[Barzah.8019]

Give rifle faster malice gain, extra damage for skill 1 2 3 based on malice stack, reduced initiative cost on skill 3 while standing and initiative regen for kneeling then we have a deal "D

[Urejt.5648]

Wonder why they decided rifle autoatack should be 3 times lower dps than dagger or sword. I understand its ranged weapon so it should be lower, but pistol is also ranged weapon and its only 50% lower while rifle is 200% lower dps.

[chronometria.3708]

I came from longbow ranger and rifle warrior into Deadeye and have to agree with the topic. As it stands, even in full ascended gear with some pretty meaty stats, the damage is just not sufficient. I got the drop on a guardian for example and he just ran off, with half health, after I burned out my initial burst. Compared to my longbow druid, that's pretty poor and the druid would have rooted him with ancient seeds to finish the job.

Weapons like the longbow on a druid/ranger or the pistols on a thief are flat out better. They combine mobility with constant pressure. Due to the initiative costs and the way defences naturally repel ranged spikes, the only way the rifle will inflict killing blows is if we wait a good 8 seconds for malice stacks and by then the fight has become a matter of survival and escape as the enemy uses its gap closers and opens up.

If I used steal and then daggers, the enemy would be killed in the initial attack, often before they even know they are in combat. The rifle should be achieving that and its functioning like a weaker and ammo limited version of other alternative weapons. It doesn't even compare to the spikes that mesmers can drop on people and other burst classes know this and are wiping out anyone they see dropping into a kneel.

I really don't get why this is the case. Did ranged stealth attack really sound that scary on paper? As it is, its laughable and very sad.

[Asur.9178]

@Balerios.3679 said:Na they need nerfs bro. At least in pvp

This tells me a lot about your skill. DE is awful in PvP. The only reason it was getting played as much recently was because people were abusing a stealth bug - which has now been fixed.

@illenos.5134 said:You'll have to split the balance of rifle between pve, pvp and wvw. In wvw it is way too easy to oneshot other roamers or snipe someone down within seconds.

WvW is a joke mode to begin with. Anyone who takes that mode seriously is a joker.

[chronometria.3708]

@Barzah.8019 said:Give rifle faster malice gain, extra damage for skill 1 2 3 based on malice stack, reduced initiative cost on skill 3 while standing and initiative regen for kneeling then we have a deal "D

I am still deeply puzzled that kneel has an initiative cost at all. It does nothing but root you and set up for other abilities and because of its cost I often found I switched to kneel and then couldn't actually do anything because I had spent the initiative I needed to make an attack.

[JayAction.9056]

I got crit for 21k from stealth in pvp (I'm a rev also running squish. It was a one shot).

That sort of burst is not possible for most classes. I'm not sure I've ever even been kill shot for that much

Maybe you should try that sort of play style .

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

For PvE

1. Make malice build up way faster
2. Make three round burst refund 3 ini if all 3 shots hit.
3. Make autoattack .5s cast time while kneeling
4. Make Death's judgement unblockable and do 20% more damage if target is below 30% HP
5. Kneeling makes you attack 15% faster and adds 150 range to all skills.

[radchad.9215]

When do you think we'll hear some feedback from the devs (Karl in our case)?

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

Maybe a week before next balance update... those come like... every 3 months no?

[MidnightO.8632]

I'm thinking that a good way to improve the rifle might be to overhaul how skills work with and without crouch. As it is now except for the leap all rifle skills while standing are pretty much inferior DPS alternatives to crouch skills.

What they could do is make crouch rifle into a strong sustained dps/support option. Sustained rather than burst to make it more geared towards PvE where you can afford to stay in one place. Then rework the standing rifle towards burst and init burn with some condition utility (that is non-damaging condis) for PvP. Though I suppose you could get this by simply buffing rifle kneel skills and then use pistols for your run and gun needs.

[Saraneth.6021]

@knyy.6427 said:While I agree deadeye dmg is really mediocre with d/d and really bad with rifle, it's just not the spec for pve endgame. Even though I would really like to.

Yeah but, this game is a story driven PvE game with PvP.A lot of people I know do not PvP at all.

What good reason is there to make the new spec shit tier for PvE? I cannot think of any apart from the Deadeye devs wearing rose tinted glasses while making it. Right now they probably thinking "Oh no! We kittened up!" They wont admit that though.

[Burnfall.9573]

"Deadeye damage is horrible".

????

game play included with buildshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5191/ill-pass/p1

[LazerusKI.7485]

@Burnfall.9573 said:"Deadeye damage is horrible".

????

game play included with buildshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5191/ill-pass/p1

thats pvp, not pve. thats a huge difference.atleast when i played pvp the last time there were no veterans, elites or champions, in pvp you can encounter and ambush single targets which is rarely the case in pve where you usually fight groups.not to mention that in a 1v1 situation you can easily dodge that shot since its literally announced with a bright light that screams "you now need to dodge" which then disables the deadeye completely because usually he is out of energy or has to retreat.

also its "only" 30k damage, that barely tickles some enemies in pve, and seriously...it takes around 10s to reach that malice, 30k in 10s means 3k dps...even with trickery and only autoattack you can cast DJ only three times before mark runs out, in solo pve with 25 might i hit for around 16k, thats 48k...and thats nothing when you compare that to other classes and specs. as i said, i can start a fight with 8k-10k Unload, before i even have might.

just take a look at some other quotes in there, like this one

@Highlie.7641 said:Lol anti thieves are so fail it's hilarious.

You do realize in the 10.5 seconds it's taken that thief to stack full malice (which you can clearly see) you would of done double the amount of damage as a core d/d thief. Or daredevil...

That's basically 3 backstabs, 3 cloak and daggers, and about 6-8 auto attacks (2 at a time) keep trying though i'm sure arena net will believe you.

it takes like one second to land the full Cnd, Bs, 2 auto's combo, on a zerker spec vs another zerker (which your video obviously is too) thats 12k, 5k, 4k and 4k. There's 25k right there... 9 more seconds left

/facepalm

not to mention that some of the videos posted there are from the beta, BEFORE TRB was nerfed at day 1

[Barzah.8019]

@JayAction.9056 said:I got crit for 21k from stealth in pvp (I'm a rev also running squish. It was a one shot).

That sort of burst is not possible for most classes. I'm not sure I've ever even been kill shot for that much

Maybe you should try that sort of play style .

Everyone who know how to play Rifle has the exact same game style which is stalk -> slowly build malice -> DJ spam. The problem with that method is pretty much the only way to gain good amount of damage, so stuff like your attack get magically "obstructed" at point blank sight, bad projectile tracing, or even hitting random mob that block the path can easily screwed up the rotation.

At this point i need some sort of alternative tactic rather than spamming DJ, yet Tap is somewhat costly, while your deadly aim barely threatening at all. Other skill than DJ definitely need a buff, but give them time to build up those damage instead of instantly increase the output should be the best solution to improve rifle condition.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:also its "only" 30k damage, that barely tickles some enemies in pve, and seriously...it takes around 10s to reach that malice, 30k in 10s means 3k dps...30k damage from a single DJ on maxed Malice Stacks after 10 seconds? + whatever damage you fill those 10s with until you hit that cap?

[Gray.9041]

@JayAction.9056 said:I got crit for 21k from stealth in pvp (I'm a rev also running squish. It was a one shot).

That sort of burst is not possible for most classes. I'm not sure I've ever even been kill shot for that much

Maybe you should try that sort of play style .

how long was the setup? 10s? more? burst damage should be pretty quick - hence burst. as is, you got 21k over maybe 10 seconds. that's what we would call absolutely atrocious DPS

[LazerusKI.7485]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@LazerusKI.7485 said:also its "only" 30k damage, that barely tickles some enemies in pve, and seriously...it takes around 10s to reach that malice, 30k in 10s means 3k dps...30k damage from a single DJ on maxed Malice Stacks after 10 seconds? + whatever damage you fill those 10s with until you hit that cap?

yep, thats nothing. unload has a casttime of 1.5s and hits for 8-10k + might + malice. so basically in 4.5s it can outnumber dj and you still have enough energy left. and thats without delay right from the start until the end.even trb damage isnt that high and in my case hits for just 5k, so again not good in pve

[Zacchary.6183]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@LazerusKI.7485 said:also its "only" 30k damage, that barely tickles some enemies in pve, and seriously...it takes around 10s to reach that malice, 30k in 10s means 3k dps...30k damage from a single DJ on maxed Malice Stacks after 10 seconds? + whatever damage you fill those 10s with until you hit that cap?

yep, thats nothing. unload has a casttime of 1.5s and hits for 8-10k + might + malice. so basically in 4.5s it can outnumber dj and you still have enough energy left. and thats without delay right from the start until the end.even trb damage isnt that high and in my case hits for just 5k, so again not good in pve

This can hit 30k in a few seconds and do it all over again if you wanted it to. You don't even have to wait for Malice build up that much. Although if you do, it boosts the damage up another 20k before you reset with Mercy.

[Gray.9041]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

This can hit 30k in a few seconds and do it all over again if you wanted it to. You don't even have to wait for Malice build up that much. Although if you do, it boosts the damage up another 20k before you reset with Mercy.

again, how many is a few? 3? 5? work out the DPS, and again, it's terrible. 15k? 10k? 6k? that's still not good dps.