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Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]


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@"StyxTBeuford.2071" said:I haven't actually commented on one of these because I'm usually quite satisfied with Living World. In fact I think up to this point LWS4 has been superior in almost every way to Path of Fire in regards to map design and story. So this episode, which was slightly pushed back for quality control, had me questioning exactly what had been fixed.

The bugs are whatever. Every launch has bugs, I can wait a day. What I can't get over is how headscratchingly strange the dialogue and plot beats are this time around. From the very beginning we, as the commander, convince someone of risking a massive disaster because handwave. The dialogue options don't flow logically with the conclusion, so as nice as the branching dialogue options were, they made very little sense story wise and kicked off the first mission with a pretty bad taste in my mouth. People have already mentioned the ending and, well, yeah. It's just bad. I'm not a fan of setting up so many episodes for this. Ever since LWS3 we've been kind of bouncing around antagonists, and at least for the first leg of this season I was down with where the plot was going, but the narrative team has done the ol' switcheroo yet again, and it's so beyond old and contrived at this point (especially the reasoning for why Human players aren't at risk for the scarab plague). It wasn't as bad of a story as One Path Ends, but it was pretty close. As an added note, where the heck were those vine walls during PoF or Heart of Thorns? Those would've been pretty darn helpful- instant fort seems like the kind of thing we should've been using for a while now. That was so beyond sloppy.

Also, I know Taimi is important to the plot because no one else is going to explain how dire everything is and solve our problems, but I felt she had very little reason for being so present in this story. I like her and all, but this would've been a good opportunity to vary the characters up a bit more.

The map is awful- literally my least favorite map in the game by a mile. Dull grays, jacarandas for artificial difficulty, and whole sections of the map with nothing in them at all- and 2 waypoints, both relatively close together in the center. I understand that since PoF the focus has been on using mounts to get around large distances instead of waypoints, but 2 is beyond extreme. It's such a lazy way to force players to use mounts, and it serves to do nothing but frustrate players who can't complete their collections because they had to fly all the way to the end of the meta/bounty only for it to end before they got there. There's no positives here.

As many people have mentioned, locking the Beetle behind a collection that doesn't even make itself available until most of the way through the story is just bad design. We do all this work- bounties, meta, story missions- to get absolutely no exp reward out of it until we unlock the new mount, and THEN we can train for masteries- as soon as we're done caring about the map basically. I cannot fathom how anyone thought this was an okay idea. Making players wait for no reason is bad.

The story missions even have some odd design choices that I just cannot understand. I'll just focus on the second mission. I had no idea that I hadn't picked up the bombs from Canach- you go to him to get the seeds for the vine walls, and he just hands those to you, but the bombs are for some reason on the ground and you have to pick them up if you want to use them. The game doesn't force you to pick up the bombs either- you can, as I did the first time through, very easily miss them because the green icon on the map blends into the sickly gray green texture of the land, and assume that you're supposed to use the shock ability to take down all the walls and trebuchets (which connected about 50% of the time). Heck, even if you do see the icon, it's perfectly reasonable to think those are just more vine seeds (you don't technically know how many you need to plant nor how many were given to you). I thought the overheat meter was a "heat" meter in regards to how much I had alerted the awakened- turns out for some reason each awakened has its own alertness stack that you have to just figure out is there instead of anything in the game letting you know this. The lack of conveyance and poor design decisions on this mission alone can make it take very little time for some, but arbitrarily raise the difficulty for others who may be hurrying a bit through the story because of time constraints irl. I spent over an hour on that one mission, and I don't think I had ever been more miserable while playing GW2.

Again, the worst thing about Long Live The Lich is that it comes right after two of my favorite LW episodes ever- Bug in The System was brilliant, and Sandswept Isles will be heavily populated for a long time. Going forward, I'd personally request that you stick to a lot of what made that particular episode so great- clever map design that makes you want to use your mounts because it seems fun, not because it's required; a story that hits emotional beats as well as serving the larger plot in a catching way; varied characters and lore building (Olmakhan were the best thing ever); and fun, varied story missions and events that challenge the player in completely different and ideally new ways. Take all of those things I loved about episode 2 and invert them, and that's what Long Live The Lich is to me. I'm sorry Anet, I just don't like this one at all.

U unlock the beetle collection after like the second story instance, relax... Getting the mount after u unlock the collection will take you a day max.

I dont want to be handed stuff right off the start.

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Im starting to think you don't know how to create an interesting villain or even expand on an existing one. While the ending was kinda shocking, the fact that Joko died so fast and easily was unacceptable. This could have been easily GW2 Lich King..

Shame.

Map is nice but where are the Whispers you hinted to be still active? Why the Meta is so boring?

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@"zealex.9410" said:U unlock the beetle collection after like the second story instance, relax... Getting the mount after u unlock the collection will take you a day max.

I dont want to be handed stuff right off the start.

  1. I'm not sure why you chose to quote my entire post for just the Beetle stuff.
  2. I never said I want the Beetle to just be handed to me. There's clearly a middle ground between the collection being locked behind two instances before you can even start it (and then the collection itself requires you to do a lot in Kourna, including at least 1 bounty and the meta, not to metnion a lot of "Tag to complete" items), and just blatantly giving the mount to people. The obvious solution to me would've been to allow people to train the masteries before they unlocked the Beetle, instead of having to get the Beetle before the masteries can be trained.
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I'm only on 'Guns, Germs and Steal' myself, but got my beetle, did the Tyrian medal line, just little more than half on the Gandaran medal line, picking away at a few story steps and doing some hearts and meta and unlocking crazy amounts of achievements to work on.

I'm pretty excited. I think I'm going to be here for awhile. Hopefully some other souls stick around too.

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Please fix the various places you can get stuck in when you explore around Dajibi Hollows - not wanting to use a guide to get the mastery point there I explored options to reach it from above, and have so far gotten stuck twice in caves that looked like a possible entry routes (and no, it's not the same one).Oh, and is intentional that the Awakened Windcallers and Earthstalkers don't have any abilites listed when you target them? This map feels really unfinished :(

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I was very disapointed in the meta... you take a historical location like the Moon Fortress, which we could raid completely in GW1, i mean like litterally, he had to assualt and fight our way through the entire fortress... and then recycle it in GW2, but only let us explore about 25% of it at the most... this is extremely underwhelming, you could have done so so soooooo much more with it. I was expecting to have to fight our way through all the streets and plaza, facing two or three champion mordant crescent generals as we fight our way in. This could have been so epic. Wheres the exploration, the challenge, the reward... i mean seriously, the loot is sooooo underwhelming, we go in there, kill a boss, smash a few experiments and were done... like... thats it?!?!? You have a place with so much lore and potential, and just waste it. This fortress could have given us truely epic fights, but now, i doubt anyone will revist it after they get their mount and beetle.

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So, my take on this episode:

  1. Technically, it was incredibly bad. It was delayed by one month (remember that E2 already shipped a week too late) and then we get such a bug fiesta with ridiculous server issues. Where exactly did that month go?
  2. The story, in total, was mediocre at best. A bunch of plot holes (e.g. how did a human commander suddenly know (why) he's immune to the scarab plague when there's no such hint before?) and quite some stuff that didn't make sense. There was no reason for only Braham and the commander to go into the fortress. Was that a cheap way to get closer to Braham again after he's been taken so much flak (rightfully) in all the episodes since HoT? Not to mention the ridiculous ease with which we pop up a base right inside the heart of enemy territory. Portal or not, that doesn't work. And the worst part was Joko's end. The staging wasn't bad, but it happens way too early in the overall story line. The fault may have originated in E2, which set up the scarab plague as doomsday scenario, but these constant switches of the main villain become annoying.
  3. Gameplay of the story missions isn't really better. The trap sections are just annoying, Joko's way too repetitive, and the first and second mission contain nothing that's exciting. I hope the open map is better, though the other posts in this thread don't sound promising.
  4. And now, the beetle. I'm still in the first collection step, but it's just bad. The collection makes no sense and it is boring. Was that kind of crap really necessary?
  5. The only saving grace of this episode is the new fractal. Beautiful design, the bosses feel rather good and the lack of a CM isn't such a bad thing.

Overall, this episode is a disappointment apart from the fractal. Most S3 episodes and the other two S4 episodes have been much, much better.

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The map is great. I really like when you guys give us a little bit of everything :D Loved the underwater cave it is beautiful. I also really enjoy the Petey collection and finished it in about 2.5 hours. Was nice to just check off the items and not a gold sink. He's adorable and I love him :D No major issues except one major DC that booted my ass all the way to Desert Highlands of all places and then to log in screen but that was launch day and has been smooth playing since. Great story guys! Was worth the wait <3

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Beetle needs revision. It -must- start with full endurance. and give players more control on the speed. Only burn endurance for superspeed while you hold down space.

Tricks is completely and utterly useless. Way too easy to loose momentum from hitting snags in the world, and then you have to wait 10 seconds before you can speed up again.

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Ignoring the initial problems at launch, there are several problems that this episode ran into but it also succeeded in a few ways as well and I'll touch on both.

The Good:

  • THE MOUNT The design of the mount was done very well overall, in terms of how the mount feels to ride around and the physics programmed behind it, it feels more like throwing yourself around as opposed to being on a set track going in the forward direction, which is great and gives a strong sense of weight.
    • THE STORY The Story was pretty good overall, it was engaging and makes me eager to see what happens next.-THE CINEMATICS The cinematics stepped up their game! It looks like arenanet is starting to dabble in more motion capture practices. While they don't seem to be very good at it yet, I hope they keep at it and it improves as they do more, which is exciting.
    • THE MAP The map was beautiful and visually appealing, much of it was cleverly designed around the rolling beetle mount, allowing multiple opportunities to launch off of things or coast along smooth surfaces and the like.

      Things that could have been improved: (Any criticisms are made out of love for the game and the hope that I can help improve the game in some way)

    • ACQUIRING THE MOUNT Leading up to the release of the episode, a lot of excitement and hype was create at the mention of a new mount. This left many players (including myself) to be counting the days until release so they can ride this mount. As a result, many players began rushing the collection for the mount before bothering with the story. This causes players to uncover the new map via scouring for the collection items via a guide rather than discovering it for themselves or via the story. A better solution to this would be either an easier collection, or giving the mount to the player as they completed the story.-THE COLLECTION The collection itself came off as infuriating to a lot of players because it forced them to play certain old events. While it's good to encourage players to re-engage with old content, many of these events only spawn every so often (up to 2 hours). This forced many players to wait when they just wanted to ride the mount. Not to say a collection for the mount is a bad idea. It worked very well with the Griffon, however the big difference is that the griffon was a secret mount, therefore no one knew about it going into the expansion. This made the challenge of getting the Griffon a very challenging but rewarding experience.
    • THE META EVENT The meta event in the Domain of Kourna was overall disappointing. Leading up to the event was perfectly fine between having to collect spare parts and the cannon events, but the momentum that has been building up toward these is suddenly lost with a short assault. The actual meta event is very short only allowing entrance to the city from one access point (despite the multiple bridges) ending with an unsatisfying golem fight. Looking at the map, it looks like there was perfect opportunity to create a multiple entry assault from each bridge in the style of the Silverwastes meta. The map was made in such a way that it appear as if it was designed for this purpose. This part makes me wonder if something happened within Anet that forced them to stop working on the event and oversimplify it? In any case, a huge missed opportunity.
    • BOOST AND BREAKABLE WALLS While I understand why Anet had the beetle to start with no endurance it is quite frustrating to mount up and then be forced to wait 10 whole seconds before you can really go anywhere, at that point, most are better off just using the raptor to get to where they want to go. At the same time, you can't just give the mount so much power that it renders the other mounts obsolete. A good compromise would be to have the mount start at either half or 70% endurance (3-5 second wait on initial mount) This would stop players from having to wait forever just to boost but would also let the other mounts keep their value. As it stands now, the wait is very frustrating for players, especially since you need to wait for that boost in order to use the wall break ability. This ends up with players waiting 10 seconds in front of the wall in order to break it. Alternatively, it would have been much better to attach the wall break to the attack ability. This way, a player can break a wall immediately after mounting. In terms of the walls themselves, they seem to only be a few scattered throughout the map, and are only useful for map completion points of interest or mastery points but otherwise have no real use, leaving it to feel like a waste of a mastery.

Thanks for reading my opinion on the episode! I hope that Anet uses at least some of this feedback to improve their games for the better!

Praise Joko

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@"CptAurellian.9537" said:So, my take on this episode:

  1. Technically, it was incredibly bad. It was delayed by one month (remember that E2 already shipped a week too late) and then we get such a bug fiesta with ridiculous server issues. Where exactly did that month go?
  2. The story, in total, was mediocre at best. A bunch of plot holes (e.g. how did a human commander suddenly know (why) he's immune to the scarab plague when there's no such hint before?) and quite some stuff that didn't make sense. There was no reason for only Braham and the commander to go into the fortress. Was that a cheap way to get closer to Braham again after he's been taken so much flak (rightfully) in all the episodes since HoT? Not to mention the ridiculous ease with which we pop up a base right inside the heart of enemy territory. Portal or not, that doesn't work. And the worst part was Joko's end. The staging wasn't bad, but it happens way too early in the overall story line. The fault may have originated in E2, which set up the scarab plague as doomsday scenario, but these constant switches of the main villain become annoying.
  3. Gameplay of the story missions isn't really better. The trap sections are just annoying, Joko's way too repetitive, and the first and second mission contain nothing that's exciting. I hope the open map is better, though the other posts in this thread don't sound promising.
  4. And now, the beetle. I'm still in the first collection step, but it's just bad. The collection makes no sense and it is boring. Was that kind of crap really necessary?
  5. The only saving grace of this episode is the new fractal. Beautiful design, the bosses feel rather good and the lack of a CM isn't such a bad thing.

Overall, this episode is a disappointment apart from the fractal. Most S3 episodes and the other two S4 episodes have been much, much better.

Don't forget the last story mission "epic" fight at the front gate where the actual fighting was mainly between untargetable allies and enemies inside a dust cloud. Pretty lazy design for "fight your way to the gate". I also heard that the new fractal didn't have new designs and just recycled old models and textures.

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For me this was one of the best episodes of all the seasons, certainly the best one in season 4 this far. The story was very good, and contrary to what many users say in the Lore section of the forums, I found the ending quite satisfying and amusing (although I think Joko's story arc could've used just a bit more buildup - like the awakened assasins mechanic talked about in the most recent guild chat). I've always felt that Joko was just a side villian and mostly comic relief - I get that it's a prominent GW1 character and people are upset about the way he was handled in this release, but aside from his possible origin story I don't find anything of interest that could've justified further LW episodes centered around him (although his dialogue in the ending cutscene and the message found in the open world after the instance were intriguing). And speaking of cutscenes - this was just the best thing in this episode! Please ANet, keep this up, it adds soo much weight to the story!

Aside from that, I also really enjoyed the mechanics in all of the instances - especially the stealth in the second one (bug stomping is also quite fun). Haven't yet explored the whole map or gotten the beetle mount, so I can't say too much about that. All in all I can't wait to see where the story goes next (to be honest I'm counting on a map that is devoid of awakened :D)

Keep up the good work!

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I feel like this arc went way too fast. You go from moving an entire army across the world to aurene eating Joko alive in the space of an hour or so.

Also, beetle needs more dye channels, please. Love the way the beetle dyes, but the saddle/seat/etc really clashes with my character's aesthetic

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helloI've been playing for a really long time even if I don't really talk on the forums, and when I saw that there was a feedback thread for this living story I decided I needed to look at it, and maybe throw in my planty thoughts on the subject. So...

! I was a fan of the trial, personally, but I also took every single aggressive option that I could. My commander was tired of everyone's stuff constantly, and just wanted to be on their way to ~save the world~ I loved that Gorrik is still very obviously Inquest, even if he's on our side now, and Blish is quickly becoming one of my favourite smols. I really liked it when Joko threw out "this is what you get for siding this town with those Sunspears," the acknowledgment of my previous actions in the story made me really feel like they still had some weight.

! I didn't mind how we recuited the Primeval Kings, honestly. We've dealt with them in the past, and I wrote off their initial hesitance more as just that, hesitance. I quite liked the stealth instance, and I appreciated that it saved my progress in completing an earlier part of the instance when I managed to teleport myself into a rock and had to reload in order to fix it. Judging by the feedback that I read, telegraphing that the game has saved your progress in the step better might have been appreciated. Also, I just gotta say, teleporting around and staying invisible forever made me feel more like I was Caithe than playing as Caithe ever did.

! I really like the way you've refined the "renown hearts as a part of the story" through the episodes. Having us simply do some relevant tasks rather than completing the heart, and then allowing us to complete the heart if we wanted, has definitely been my favourite iteration on this idea. Especially when I finished a renown heart and got a mail in my inventory the way I used to in the wayback machine and found that a small girl had made me cakes.

! I liked how set up the infiltration into the fortress was. I loved everything about Joko, every second of every line was brilliant to me. When my character was like "nah man he's dead" and I was like "NO HE'S ALIVE BUT OK YOU THINK THAT", and the PAYOFF for having my character be a dumb overconfident protagonist was AMAZING. THAT was what powerlessness I wanted Mordremoth to give me, THAT was the level of reflection on my actions I wanted PoF to give me, I wanted my character to try talking to Joko about how 'well if you know so much could you help me fix it?'

! And then Aurene showed up from nowhere and ate him. As Joko said at the beginning of the story, that's cheating. I felt robbed, like all the build up you'd been leading me through was pointless, like the promises you'd made had no meaning. I wasn't as mad as when we pressed f to kill Lazarus, but that's honestly in part because I still haven't really started believing that Joko is actually dead. He came out of the mists once, why not twice?

One of my friends in my guild, I think, said it best. This episode was so close to being great that it hurts.

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It seems like GW2 villains get killed off too early without enough development nor room for them to make a shocking return in stories down the road. Some villains are fantastic because they have a long history with there rivals like Magneto, Loki, Joker etc. I would love to see some really fleshed out villains that aren't just one and done. Am I alone on this?

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Here is some feedback on the Field Tech Turret system.

First of giving players the ability to deploy a turret sounds awesome, that being said the implementation is absolute horrible. You guys are still refusing to learn how to make engaging content now do you? It suffers from the same basic problems these one time use weapons and the sunspear summons suffer from and more, but to name the main problems:

  • they're basically committing suicide

  • you can only use them in Kourna

  • they require "consumables"

Like what the heck A-Net, who thought any of this was a good idea? Why is there a need for them to self destruct when they're basically ohko by upscaled elite mobs? Why restricting their usage to Kourna when they would be much more useful in other maps? I can understand them not being available in PvP but that's about it, you guys do realise that every boss worth killing (be it in fractals, OW or raids) would kill them pretty much instantly thanks to all the AOE spam, right? So what's the big problem here? And finally what's up these upgrade costs, you guys do realise that this pretty much kills it even if you would solve the other issues, right? No one is going to torture himself by farming trash mobs in order to use an immobile gimmik with no offensive presence. If I wanted to have something to distract the mobs with I would swap out my scholar runes for oger ones (at least that thing is mobile).

If you really want to save the "system" here's what you should do:

  1. turn it into a gizmo given to players after the completion of the achievement chain

  2. the gizmo should deploy a basic turret which gains exp like a nomal player would (but of course with its own exp tables)

  3. the player should be able to upgrade the turret based on its level

  4. the turret shoud have an infinite duration (with no self damage) and go on cooldown once it's destroyed (the cooldown shouldn't be longer than two minutes), alternatively the player should be able to dismantle his turret if he wants to move it, in this case the turret shouldn't go on cooldown

  5. you prohibit the usage in WvW and sPvP

^ done, this is an example of how you turn it into something people are actually willing to use, a developer said during the most recent Guild Chat that he hasn't seen people actively engage with the system and as it stands right now it's going go stay that way just like how no one cares about the Cannon in a Box and pretty much every one time use weapon found in core Tyria.

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after playing the episode and watching the entire video with guild wars 2 living world chat on youtube , i have the feeling of cheap work on the story content , the beetle gameplay experience is one of the greatest,so much greatness from the guys that worked on it....but on the story content,it all felt rushed and cheap, like : let's be done with joko, like in a second we come back from saving the sandswept isles and then we go to war, in 2 seconds we gather the army, and then the siege preparations look AWSOME, especially the mordremlike wall made by canach....and then bam, shit fight, sorry for maybe too honest opinion,but the final chapter is actually really cheap, too less content for such great expectations from such a villain , i feel like you really destroyed the potential of that fortress and of joko ..........feels bad that we didn't even get a great meta at the end.... AGAIN .....

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I have waited that most bugs are fixed before to provide feedback. For now, this area and LS episode are too new to allow me a fully constructed opinion, because there are many things I don't know yet. I am not one who hurry at things to have everything done within the few days after download. I am more of the type who take it easy and go slow to secure having enough things to do for a long while. So, this below is only my first feeling at it.

I like:

  • That we can save progress in story instance! Thank you so much Anet for this. It should become a standard for the long ones.
  • The passage with - sort of - puzzles to be solved to progress. It makes it a lot more interesting to me and I like that.
  • That the story is fair up to the fight against Joko, and no problem for me that I cannot solo last fight: I called friends in. I am glad of the overall good mix between fair and hard. And the variety of stuff along the path.
  • The Beetle, however with one problem: I get motion sickness when curving. But well, that's not new. I am unfortunately part of the players who have to manage motion sickness at mounting. It does not change that I find it cute and that I like to speed up (on straight lines ;) ). I just regret that it has only one channel dye.

I was disappointed by:

  • The landscape. One more "almost-all-brown" area. As I am one who likes green, water and snow, of course, it's not nice for me. But it does not come as a surprise. It is a desert. It's normal. I knew it. However, I can hardly wait for a new area happening somewhere else than in a desert.
  • Twisting visual effects: As said above, I suffer motion sickness. Visual twister effects are for me even worse than mounting. For example, I cannot do the meta in Sandswept Isle. I am sick at it within seconds due to the luring in circle around the boss. Due to that, I was strongly hoping that Anet would slow down on using those. But it's back: During the story, one boss is luring in circle again. Fortunately, it did stop pretty fast so that I was able to manage. I worry though: I cross fingers that while discovering more of the area, I will not also discover more of those effects.

Globally, more positive than negative for me up to now. Thank you Anet. :)

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just got the beetle, quite like the handling and the way momentum was brought into it, all the deflecting of off gentler slopes and everything, the speed, the balance with other mounts. cos of the speed and handling, it requires slightly more focus too, for me

it seems to have great potential for new chars to explore new maps and unlock wps

liked it

though perhaps a way to speed up the endurance gain would be good, such as if u go down a slope, which would speed up the endu gain

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I have to agree with the general sentiment of Joko being under-utilized and wasted potential. I had never personally played Guild Wars, but I was fascinated with the idea of this "tyrant king" that was a lich and was actually running a kingdom with some semblance of success. Joko seemed like an extremely interesting character; one who was in for the long haul and one I was personally hoping we would not kill so soon-- if at all. After meeting him in Guild Wars 2 I immediately went to the Guild Wars wiki to learn more about him.

I feel like the game overall has a lot of characters presented in this fashion; introduced then quickly killed off, unfortunately in this case it was a character with a rich backstory and a large amount of lore behind them. Even Balthazar and his madness was a disappointing turn for the story to take in my opinion; his death also needless and meaningless ultimately. I worry about the Guild Wars 2 story at large as we seem to be killing off any intelligent or interesting villains immediately for the next big thing.

I'd have preferred that if anything we'd manage to wear Joko and his armies down enough to force negotiations or something rather than the abrupt upheaval of a centuries old empire.

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Despite me sitting there frozen chanting "Yooo-hooo, Aurene! Where arrrrreee youuuuu?" I still jumped and then laughed at the ending. The various character's quips at the end were fun.

I would like to ask that the "out of bounds" (OOB) areas in the instances get some tweaking. There is no "wait" time between accidentally crossing into the zone and getting the warning and then getting dumped in these new instances. While playing through the first time, I got dumped out a few times. I'm paying attention to the story, to the battles, and not the mini-map.

For example, as you enter the trial instance, Taimi walks out-of-bounds while talking and walking with you. If one walks with her, you get dumped out. Luckily, this one is early, and didn't waste a lot of time. Still, needs a warning period or just get rid of the first restricted area. The player doesn't need that sort of leashing--it's sort of insulting.

Also, once in the Domain of Kourna to scout before the forces arrive: we have a large area to explore, but then there are OOB areas that make no sense. While fighting/evading one NPC scouting party, I accidentally "portaled" myself into OOB and got immediately dumped out of the instance--before I had gotten to a checkpoint in the game. This required a lot of repeated play.

Thanks.

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