Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]

[Theriverpriest.9472]

Hello allI used to enjoy this game. I have played it for a long time but slowly over time I realized 90% of the community is full of Toxic people that seem to think the only way to enjoy a game is to be a Jerk. the second thing that has turned my enjoyment into sick to death of this game is the fact that Anet can't seem to fix anything or update anything. the content comes so slowly watching grass grow is faster and even when the long awaited content does finally come it is full to the brim of problems, to the point that the new content isn't even playable until yet more patches happen and even then it is a toss up if the problems are fixed. I would love to enjoy this game I really would. I have 8 max level characters and I have played for about 700+ hours but the issues never get fixed. I really don't know how Anet can handle business this way. so to sum it up. I am pissed at the time I throw into this game and am deleting this dumpster fire of a game and I doubt I will play again

[XenoSpyro.1780]

If anything, all of the story and the Joko fight should have been part of the open world meta, like LW1 and Scarlett.Except unlike Kessex, Kourna is it's own zone, so they won't have to scrap the whole thing next LW. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Angoril.2179]

I agree with the OP as well. I appreciate the new mount and I enjoyed the story but I am extremely disappointed with everything else. Waiting, waiting and then waiting some more or generic Korean MMO grind for a couple of achievements is not my idea of fun. We got more bugs than content with this release. Only thing for sure is that once I am done with the achievements on that map, I am not setting foot on it again unless some drastic changes take place.

Here's to hoping the next one will actually be worth the wait.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Boogiepop Void.6473 said:Kourna is a map full of wasted potential. It very much feels rushed and incomplete. I hope that we can get an update to finish it someday.

~snip~

The most glaringly incomplete element, though, is the meta. It gives lackluster rewards (access to them is also poorly designed, resulting in people begging mesmers for help due to the access key not awarding properly), the final meta boss is generic and uninteresting, and there is nothing story-wise or really at all interesting happening with it. The meta very obviously was meant to be a 3-lane thing like Silverwastes, with us attacking down all 3 bridges and conquering the fortress (the stuff that was happening while we were infiltrating the sewers in the story) and was rushed out with only a single lane in a usable, but not finished, state. No place is this more obvious than the west bridge, that nonsensically ends in a blank wall. There is barely any sign of the corsair fleet other than the one extremely tiny shipwreck; they were probably supposed to show up later in the meta like the ships in Palawadan. The cannon events on Kourna are another indication of this; once again only 1 part of a 3 part meta was finished and these were copy-pasted into the slots to keep the number of items in the Kourna medal collection the same.

The entire meta needs to be properly redone, with a full and proper battle over Gendara, otherwise it's just a massive waste. Do something with the empty parts of the map too.

Don't care about the snipped part, but you're 100% wrong on the meta part, it's designed exactly as it takes place, and the reason you and anyone else should figure this out is that we can't use the central entrance to Gandara because of the 3rd Generation Scarab Plague infected awakened that are being kept in check by the Twin Queens forces, that blocks off that path.Secondly, the meta is specifically about corralling the Scarab Plague, and where would we do that but in the labs in which the Awakened Inquest are working on it, and those happen to be in the Eastern side of Gandara. There's nothing in the Western side that we would even care about so there's no reason to go there, hence the wall.As for the Corsair ships, if you go into the Bay of Gandara there are Corsair ships in both the Western and Eastern portions, though they are beyond the accessible portion of the bay and you will be pushed back by those incredibly strong currents if you try to reach them, and based on conversation they are doing their job of keeping and plague ships from leaving Gandara.

[Brimstone.3807]

I love the story content of this episode. Joko made some solid points at the end, which it seemed to me the guild really digested. All I really have to say about this thread is...KaBraham!!!!!

[Torq.4926]

@"Cyrin.1035" said:Where the GW 2 Story Went Off-Track:

The story has been muddled and inconsistent since LW S3 when they decided to focus on other stories in the world as the main focus. This would not be as much of an issue if they had cleverly weaved these alternate storylines into the one they built from the beginning: the story of the Elder Dragons.

These storylines would also work far better if they were designed and written as well as the stories GW 1 told. We are in GW 2 now and GW 2 was built on the story of the Elder Dragons. If we suddenly go away from that and focus the main story on random, smaller threats like Caudecus and the quick closing plots of the Mursaat and Joko, it will always feel like a detour.

The Balthazar storyline was a detour especially since it included less of the other races and focused more on the Human race, but unlike the other detour plots, it was weaved alongside the Elder Dragon's story and showed us a different perception of the dragons. This made Balthazar's plot relevant even if the ending of his own story was poorly executed.The problem with the elder dragon storyline is that those antagonists were designed for an entirely different method of content delivery. The original structure of living world allowed for the implementation of permanent, large-scale changes to existing zones, rather than just adding new regions with every patch. Elder dragons were perfect for that, since they were essentially forces of nature that could destroy or corrupt sizable areas of the map, forcing the inhabitants there to adapt or rebuild and even altering the physical terrain.

However, the game has since moved away from exclusive, limited-time story content, meaning that the devs can no longer make sweeping changes to the old maps. Sure, we might see the occasional new npc or event, but there won't be anything like the tower of nightmares in kessex hills or the destruction of lion's arch anymore. All of the new living world maps are frozen in time and segregated into self-contained updates, so the story won't ever revisit those areas after going through them the first time. Even expansion areas such as crystal oasis didn't receive any permanent changes despite amnoon getting trashed in s4ep1, and we probably won't see any significant revisions to open world zones in the future. Anet doesn't want new or returning players to miss out on content because they weren't playing the game at the time of those releases.

This becomes an issue with the elder dragons as it severely limits what the story team can do with them. Since the dragons were characterized as vast, impersonal forces that wreak chaos and destruction wherever they go by their presence alone, the writers can't have them appear in places like central tyria or crystal oasis, because if they did, there would logically have to be major open-world changes to those zones, which is no longer permissible in the current story model. And if a dragon can't suddenly blow up half a map or wreck an existing city, they suddenly become much less of a potent threat. Sure, the devs can show them causing devastation and havoc in whatever new zones get added, but when we know that the dragons aren't ever going to directly attack lion's arch or the other cities again, they turn into a distant tragedy rather than a pressing menace - like hearing about an earthquake or hurricane on the other side of the world in the news. I think this is what forced the narrative shift from "the dragons aren't stars in the sky, let's murder them all" in the personal story to "we can't just kill the dragons outright, they're the life force of this world" in seasons 3 and 4 of living world (and the devs probably realized that it would be too repetitive to go through slaying them one by one).

This is where the secondary, smaller-scale antagonists come in. Unlike the dragons, characters like palawa joko have more discernible motives and are easier to communicate with than a natural disaster incarnate. Their every action doesn't have to create giant, world-changing consequences, giving the writers more leeway when working with them. Although I doubt gw2 will ever move entirely away from having elder dragons as primary antagonists - it's in the game logo, after all- I wouldn't be surprised if they were no longer the sole focus of the story going forward.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

I'm not going to write a dissertation on this, but to me the meta feels incomplete and the rest feels rushed

[ugrakarma.9416]

Add to the list, the massive recycling of Silverwastes textures. ..., I do not feel on an "original" map, but as if someone had picked up silverwastes at the last minute and reused everything.

I have no clue what's going on Anet, but this release is very strange considering the delay to lauch it, and the bugs they had on first days.

[Linken.6345]

Will add my thanks with the rest.Refreshing to see a chest armor instead of the shoulders/helms we usualy get.Any plans to maybe release a 6 piece set with living world season 5?

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I liked the maps overall look. The hearts feel very easy to complete. The meta event was Meh. Maybe if an amalgamated gemstone dropped it would make it feel better. The beetle was an excellent addition. And the story was good overall. I know the expectation from anet is pretty high. They do a great job overall. If you dont like this map fine you have many to choose from. Every map does not have to have a huge farm or meta. And maybe that is why I like this map.and I dont think they delayed it. They never promised that every 3 months we will get a new story. They stop making promises since the launch of HoT.

[Cyrin.1035]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@Edgy McEdgelord.4790 said:

@Cyrin.1035 said:the main story of the Elder Dragons IS the only quality writing

Based on evidence? Or simply an emotionally biased response?

Both. The Elder Dragon storylines meet the criteria for what is logically considered a properly told story: Advancement of the central and over-arcing plot and characters. Focus on connected and lasting progression for all story elements. Meaningful change that comes from the preceding events. Main characters and supportive characters changed or tested in a profound way from the events. The antagonist's defeat or success ultimately having some sort of lasting effect that makes their story purposeful and significant. These are a few of the standards of proper storytelling that have been principles since storytelling became a popular form.Then again, the starting point of this story was terrible. Five/six faceless villains that lack personality, forces of nature rather. Each with minions based around a specific but similar gimmick. Risen, branded, corrupted, it's all the same except for the color palettes of their personal appearances and magical attacks, and the stock lines of intimidating dialogue they occasionally throw out as you fight them (or run past because you're bored of fighting them). Diverging from what was the expected course of having campaign after campaign against a succession of these was sorely needed because it got boring before we even moved against the second dragon (Color palette: shades of green).

That is the bases of the story design and they should use characters like Joko, the Mursaat, the gods, ect. to further develop the entire story as a whole. Not suddenly reroute to face Joko in his region only to end his plot and then catch up with the main story.

If we are going to put the main story focus solely on other characters, then the elder dragons need to be dealt with in a conclusive sense. (AFTER the epic ocean battle and expansion with Bubbles ;))

[Cyrin.1035]

@Zaklex.6308 said:OP, have you been here since day 1? Have you followed the story with the Elder Dragons? If you answer yes to both of those questions then you would know that the Elder Dragons are no longer the main focus of the story, at least not as you might see it...we can no longer kill anymore Elder Dragons, instead we need to find a replacement for the two already slain and we have one of those replacements already, Aurene, but she's not ready to take the place of one. Now we need to find a second replacement, and we need to find a way to bring balance back to the world, that is the direction the story is going in since PoF and we found out what Glint's legacy actually was...I'm not so sure that all of these "side" stories don't connect to the main plot, which itself has pivoted to us finding replacements for the two slain Elder Dragons that will bring balance back to the world, which will also end the cycle of consume magic/release magic, at least that is how I understood the vision of the Eternal Alchemy.

Going on detours for an entire arc and trying to connect them later is disjointed and what poor storytelling and story-stretching is. You don't spend half of a LW season going to Divinity's Reach to battle the muggers in the alleyways, to later learn at some point that killing them was vital to dealing with a world-changing threat. And if you do, you make those connections or strong hints IN that arc, not after it.

It's story procastination and it's disappointing to those waiting to see them finish or at least continue what they started. (For those of you that are DBZ fans, remember the Garlic Jr. Saga? Remember how you can remove that saga entirely and the story is basically seamless? That's how this Joko plot is.)

@Zaklex.6308 said:P.S. - Read some of the most famous serial fantasy books and you'll find plenty of side stories that have nothing to do with the main plot, and I'm talking books like the Shannara series, Wheel of Time, heck even the LotR books....they all have side plots that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, it's for diversity.

Yes, of course side-stories are part of stories. The existence of them isn't what is being discussed. It's the lack of connection to the main story these side-stories have, when up to this point it's been a streamlined, focused narrative. Novels and GW 2's focused game story are two different mediums.

GW 2 usually puts it's side-stories into alternate content like dungeons, raids, fractals, open world content, ect. Seeing it here as a big arc on the main story means the side-story suddenly became the main story without regard to the story we were following.

[Cyrin.1035]

@Brimstone.3807 said:All I really have to say about this thread is...KaBraham!!!!!

cringes *

[Cyrin.1035]

@Torqiseknite.1380 said:

@"Cyrin.1035" said:

Where the GW 2 Story Went Off-Track:

The story has been muddled and inconsistent since LW S3 when they decided to focus on other stories in the world as the main focus. This would not be as much of an issue if they had cleverly weaved these alternate storylines into the one they built from the beginning: the story of the Elder Dragons.

These storylines would also work far better if they were designed and written as well as the stories GW 1 told. We are in GW 2 now and GW 2 was built on the story of the Elder Dragons. If we suddenly go away from that and focus the main story on random, smaller threats like Caudecus and the quick closing plots of the Mursaat and Joko, it will always feel like a detour.

The Balthazar storyline was a detour especially since it included less of the other races and focused more on the Human race, but unlike the other detour plots, it was weaved alongside the Elder Dragon's story and showed us a different perception of the dragons. This made Balthazar's plot relevant even if the ending of his own story was poorly executed.The problem with the elder dragon storyline is that those antagonists were designed for an entirely different method of content delivery. The original structure of living world allowed for the implementation of permanent, large-scale changes to existing zones, rather than just adding new regions with every patch. Elder dragons were perfect for that, since they were essentially forces of nature that could destroy or corrupt sizable areas of the map, forcing the inhabitants there to adapt or rebuild and even altering the physical terrain.

However, the game has since moved away from exclusive, limited-time story content, meaning that the devs can no longer make sweeping changes to the old maps. Sure, we might see the occasional new npc or event, but there won't be anything like the tower of nightmares in kessex hills or the destruction of lion's arch anymore. All of the new living world maps are frozen in time and segregated into self-contained updates, so the story won't ever revisit those areas after going through them the first time. Even expansion areas such as crystal oasis didn't receive any permanent changes despite amnoon getting trashed in s4ep1, and we probably won't see any significant revisions to open world zones in the future. Anet doesn't want new or returning players to miss out on content because they weren't playing the game at the time of those releases.

This becomes an issue with the elder dragons as it severely limits what the story team can do with them. Since the dragons were characterized as vast, impersonal forces that wreak chaos and destruction wherever they go by their presence alone, the writers can't have them appear in places like central tyria or crystal oasis, because if they did, there would logically have to be major open-world changes to those zones, which is no longer permissible in the current story model. And if a dragon can't suddenly blow up half a map or wreck an existing city, they suddenly become much less of a potent threat. Sure, the devs can show them causing devastation and havoc in whatever new zones get added, but when we know that the dragons aren't ever going to directly attack lion's arch or the other cities again, they turn into a distant tragedy rather than a pressing menace - like hearing about an earthquake or hurricane on the other side of the world in the news. I think this is what forced the narrative shift from "the dragons aren't stars in the sky, let's murder them all" in the personal story to "we can't just kill the dragons outright, they're the life force of this world" in seasons 3 and 4 of living world (and the devs probably realized that it would be too repetitive to go through slaying them one by one).

This is where the secondary, smaller-scale antagonists come in. Unlike the dragons, characters like palawa joko have more discernible motives and are easier to communicate with than a natural disaster incarnate. Their every action doesn't have to create giant, world-changing consequences, giving the writers more leeway when working with them. Although I doubt gw2 will ever move entirely away from having elder dragons as primary antagonists - it's in the game logo, after all- I wouldn't be surprised if they were no longer the sole focus of the story going forward.

By world-changing, I don't mean literally changing the physical world to reflect the outcome of what happened in the story mission, any more than things changed from the battle with Zhaitan. Change takes place in the direction of the characters and plot. And that has taken a long hiatus in favor of a random, unconnected plot detour.

The devs have been doing just fine with the Elder Dragon stories. Bringing in new, smaller threats is fine as well. I loved the antagonists in GW 1. I am a fan of the Mursaat story and even the plot with the Human Gods was exciting. They just need to properly link these plots to the main story OR finish the main story and properly transition into a story centered around these other villains and plots.

[eduardo.1436]

I think team 3 should have assistance from the other teams. Everything they have delivered is lackluster in a way:

• Season 3 episode 3. The map is fine, berry farm is great. But the bitter cold area is only used to complete Aurora, get a cat, and story, other than that the potion daily (which is used to be in the bitter cold area) there is no point, and the potion daily wastes berries. The story is to get a jormag minion with death and plant magic for taimi and along the way recruit braham. The minion thing is fine....but in episode 5 taimi and her krewe contained one of each dragon making me feel useless, they could've easily tracked down a minion. Not gonna go into detail with the Braham thing cuz we all know it.
• Season 3 episode 6. The map is fine, like the new travel method. But the story is a complete mess, from the get-go thought Kerida's plan was a bad idea, it felt that Lazarus had to be there to end the supposed "Lazarus is here!" thing, the shining blade ritual was weird especially for an asura/other race that is not human.
• Season 4 episode 3. The story was excellent, everything that was build up to from previous stories felt in place, excited fro the future of the story, the beetle is amazing. But the map doesnt feel rewarding, the home node which is 10,000 magic and 50g gives you only 1 shard when every other nodes gives 3-5, and the meta event feels lackluster.

If this team is in charge of the season finale then I am a bit skeptical.

[qbalrog.8017]

I like this chapter. Nice zone, nice story, nice pace. The collection for the mount is great. Kept me busy without too pushing it too far. I've liked the whole season so far. Nicely done.

[KronosBaelfire.6289]

The story itself is ok, engaging and for the most part entertaining. We finally destroy Joko and that was satisfying for me. The achievements however are my biggest gripe. Waiting around all day for a single event only to have it fail and have to wait again for it to trigger for just one small part of an achievement or worse, having to grind and kill a crap ton of mobs for a single item again as part of a larger achievement which, by the way, only gives 1 AP point for all the time you've wasted is not worth it and doesn't inspire me to continue playing.

[Blocki.4931]

@KronosBaelfire.6289 said:The story itself is ok, engaging and for the most part entertaining. We finally destroy Joko and that was satisfying for me. The achievements however are my biggest gripe. Waiting around all day for a single event only to have it fail and have to wait again for it to trigger for just one small part of an achievement or worse, having to grind and kill a crap ton of mobs for a single item again as part of a larger achievement which, by the way, only gives 1 AP point for all the time you've wasted is not worth it and doesn't inspire me to continue playing.

They've already changed the event requirement. You don't have to wait for it to fail

[Urud.4925]

I waited until the week-end before playing the story, to have more time to enjoy it and to give Anet more time to fix the major bugs (I also disabled my guild chat for 1 week, to avoid spoilers).The time we waited for this episode was well worth: I really liked it. Probably one of the best episodes, congratulations! The fights weren't too easy but also not too difficult, and the gimmicks weren't hard to figure out. Definitely enjoyed the fight with Joko (very unexpected final) and also the stealth mission: at the beginning I felt a bit overwhelmed by all of those new skills Blish was talking about ("you can use a stealth, a stun, a daze, a tree"... oh, give me a break) but they have been unlocked after a proper training phase first, so all good.

The characters had very good lines, excellent voice actors, as usual. I'll miss a bit Joko, he was a funny character, with good puns (I liked the jokes on Braham, who kept trying to bash him with no avail) although... that horror chamber left me speechless for a bit. And also the sight of my corpse stunned me (with those purple wings, I looked like a smashed mosquito). The "new" character, Gorrik, is also promising.

About the map, it looks like it merely serves as playground for the new mount: a wide rocky wasteland with several ups and downs. A very short meta event, and mobs farming for achievement. Good enough to play here awhile. There was no need to add bigger events/meta, so I won't complain.

The only bad thing is this banner achievement that requires to capture/defend (?) the temples in Orr: they are very short events with no reliable timer that force us to stay in front of our monitor for hours, doing absolutely nothing. I spent my Sunday this way. It was a bit boring (and I still miss Dwayna). I'm not sure how doable this achievement will be in 6 months either.

Now, JUST BLOW THE DAMN GATE, CANACH!

[Menadena.7482]

Could you just concentrate on QA and testing? Even after it was 'fixed' if I died in the 2nd instance all I could do was wait for my party to rez me. Sure the beetle was nice but getting it was broken in parts, like some shards in the SW were hung.

Plenty of bugs, not all of which have been resolved (paging the teleport scroll, report to the tome please). Plus also an insanely low drop rate of pretty much anything (pretty much no way of getting VM at all until you have the beetle).

[aceofbass.2163]

Thanks anet for delivering this kind of quality content. I have always been thinking that even though some story parts are ok with having it real time(like npcs talking to each other while the player can freely move), the emphasis can be taken away by the player simply walking away or not emphasizing enough on a character's facial reaction. This step in adding back cinematics was good plus a good plot twist to boot. Also good job on solidifying the character's personality e.g canach being rushed when planting bombs and so much more I think other people have already mentioned.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I'm a bit disappointed overall.

1. Locked mastery track wasted all Desert XP rewards.It is nice that we get another mastery track, but I find it frustrating to see it locked until after the story and roller beetle collections. The game mechanics make it that all desert experience rewards I got were lost because the mastery track was still locked during the story. And by the time I got the story completed, the collections finished and the mastery points available, I have to grind for desert experience in order to spend my mastery points. Just bad.
2. Locked collections.In general: I really dislike these as they punish casual players. Players may have finished all kinds of objectives that would have awarded them with collection pieces, but they do not register because a collection is still locked. Once the collection is unlocked, players have to revisit the objectives to get the collection rewards. I would love to see locked collections go altogether.(Note: Follow-up collections can still be unlocked themselves but have their rewards locked until all previous collections have been completed as well.)
3. Map design.The map feels a bit uninspired. I miss inspiration in both the landscape as the architecture. I think it is the worst living world map so far, at least to my personal taste. A missed opportunity, because Kourna was so beautiful in Guild Wars Nightfall. I think the story with the undead corruption really hurt the map design and experience here.

The positive:

1. New mountThe new roller beetle mount is good. The GW2 team shows once again that they're masters in mount design. The GW2 mounts are generally top class in MMO land, and the new mount is no exception. I'll probably keep using my griffon as main mount because it is the most versatile of them all.
2. StoryThe storyline missions are fine once again. I'm glad Joko is gone.

[Aamu.3952]

Content-wise, was a bit short. Story was unremarkable, but had plenty of nice touches.I'd like to see LW episodes in already existent maps.

Now rise, Aurene Ignacious Joko.

[moonstarmac.4603]

Braham when Aurene enters and has her meal "Praise Joko"

I love how Joko realized the scope of the troubles that have been caused up to this point...but in typical Joko fashion he wanted to play the hero and gain loyalty over doing something worthwhile...at least Aurene had a good meal...even if it didn't completely agree with her lol

[TheMaskedGamer.5708]

My review of "Long Live The Lich."Pros: Interesting Story Instances, Roller Beetle Mount. Cons: Domain of Kourna Map and some of its events.

In terms of story, I thought it was written fairly well. I had slightly higher expectations, but I can admit that the experience was at least satisfying. One particular part or loose end that I feel that should've been explored is the involvement of the Order of Shadows. Their story in the overall narrative was pretty interesting, but I'm surprised that they had little to no involvement in this episode. We don't know if the direct attack against Joko was something that they would support since they prefer to shift events in the Shadows. I hope we get a word from them in the next episode.

I got to give credit to the cinematics team in this episode. Especially the last one with Joko's monologue. Give credit to Nolan for his performance , the motion capture crew, the writers and the sound engineers for making almost an iconic moment for the franchise.

The Roller Beetle is an amazing addition to the game with plenty of potential. I've seen the community react to it in such a way I wasn't expecting. People starting to make their own custom racers throughout different maps. Even guilds are being made dedicated to racing the Beetle everywhere. I can only hope that you guys in Arenanet can fin a way to support the mount further with more content that expands on the Beetle's capabilities. I'd like to see official race events throughout core Tyria and even add exclusive content like Beetle Walls as well to other places for maybe hidden caches or treasure and such. I don't want the beetle to be just a mount that can break walls only in Kourna. Please consider adding more place throughout the world for us to break through with the Beetle.

Here's where I am a little disappointed with the release. The Domain of Kourna unfortunately feels to me a little lackluster. It feels unfinished. The Northern areas feel kind of barren. Only thing we can make good use out of the area is to practice with our Roller Beetles. The Southern areas definitely have more to offer, but I feel that there could have been more to it. I'm not entirely sure of your stances with Map wide Metas., but to me, the meta in this maps feels super short and narrow. Sure there are events that need to take place before we strike the fortress, but the fortress attacks feels really short and not challenging or interesting to me. Istan was a great example of an assault meta done right. In Kourna, it just feels too short. Plus having it end on a Golem boss that has mechanics that most could easily ignore or isn't strong enough is a bit disappointed. Another problem is that I was expecting the Moon Fortress to have more things or room for us to explore in. More to infiltrate and more room for big groups to go through, but it isn't. I wish there was more to it. Not sure if its possible to add more content to the map, but I can only hope it is possible.

This is as much feedback as I can give. I hope it is useful and hope that it can be useful to help you guys improve. Love you guys and keep up the good work.