Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

[Ayrilana.1396]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

Didn’t realize you made a second one until I saw it was added.

Not every enemy needs to be drawn out. Nobody had a dragon before either or at least not one that hid below the Crystal Desert.

[LucianDK.8615]

They clearly intend to continue with kralkatorik as the end of pof built up to. Joko is after all only a side villain. But 3 living story episodes with him is more than enough.

[sorudo.9054]

you know, it's better to kill him now then to be dragged trough the same old stuff, somethings are better not milked to the bone. (see the pun :wink: )

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

Didn’t realize you made a second one until I saw it was added.

Not every enemy needs to be drawn out. Nobody had a dragon before either or at least not one that hid below the Crystal Desert.

I would agree that not every enemy needs to be drawn out, however, not every enemy has as deep a backstory as Joko. Killing him so soon so easily makes his claims of eternalness shallow and his history as an unriveled conquerer and surpresser unbelieveable. I have no problem with the method used to end him, it was just too soon.

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

@sorudo.9054 said:you know, it's better to kill him now then to be dragged trough the same old stuff, somethings are better not milked to the bone. (see the pun :wink: )

Only if the lack creativity

[Ayrilana.1396]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

Didn’t realize you made a second one until I saw it was added.

Not every enemy needs to be drawn out. Nobody had a dragon before either or at least not one that hid below the Crystal Desert.

I would agree that not every enemy needs to be drawn out, however, not every enemy has as deep a backstory as Joko. Killing him so soon so easily makes his claims of eternalness shallow and his history as an unriveled conquerer and surpresser unbelieveable. I have no problem with the method used to end him, it was just too soon.

He boasted about a lot of things that weren’t true. Would killing him after episode six really be that much of a difference?

[Ojimaru.8970]

I'll probably try to get this question into the AFC, but I would really like to get some insight into the reasoning behind the decision to remove all loot drops from mobs associated with the map meta event. Having done this four times so far, it feels like the most tedious, unrewarding meta event I've ever experienced since the majority of the events are centered around timed defense against waves of enemies that don't give any loot, nor experience. It culminates into a boss fight with a massive health pool, non-interactive mechanics, and one-shots (20k in a single hit with no telegraphs), followed by even more non-interactive wailing on static objects.

Speaking of one-shots, this map has some of the worst creature balance. The three main Legendaries (Golem, Abomination, and Broodmother) each have non-telegraphed attacks that deal 20-23k damage, with little to no way to predict, let alone evade. I haven't seen this kind of nonsense since the days before world boss scaling was capped. While it is true that the game has a Down State mechanic, and there are usually players around to revive you, but that doesn't make these random Downs fun. When you don't get to express your game knowledge or skill by evading big hitting attacks, like the damage reflect ability of Awakened Abominations, and instead have to just cross your fingers and submit your soul to the Deities of RNG, it makes for a frustrating experience.

Similarly, has anybody even playtested against the Awakened Olmakhan prior to release? Did nobody find that the Awakened Earthstalker's attack speed a little higher than any other creature in the game?

[foozlesprite.8051]

My two cents here, only directed at the devs really (not looking for arguments, just giving feedback). Honestly, I really liked it overall. There were a lot of things that I felt could be improved on, but you already know about the story and disconnection issues and that's been beaten to death everywhere else so I'm not addressing it here.

General thoughts:

! My biggest complaint: needs more Canach! (This is always my biggest complaint.) I very much enjoyed his 'dialogue'/achievement while opening the gate, but man, I wish he'd had more speaking lines (or heck, even more written lines.) Hope I can remember to ask in the AFC if his Aurene eating people comment was an intentional jab about Mordremoth and the sylvari.!! Taimi! In battle instead of being forced to stay in the field! Thanks for giving her that chance. It's really nice to see a game using assistive tech, and for the guild to finally realize she's almost a legal adult now (in the U.S.; she IS in some other places) and can be useful anywhere.!! Along those lines, thanks for having Gorrik be on the autism spectrum, that means a lot to me and my friends. I know there's no way to explicitly communicate that in-game, but I appreciate that it was canonized in the Guiid Chat episode.!! Faren! With clothes on! Doing brave-if-stupid things! Finally, some development. We've seen him like that before, but since a lot of it is in season 1 or events/NPC text in Verdant Brink, it's hard for a lot of people to realize that while he likes to ham it up for the spotlight, he genuinely cares enough to risk his life. He tried to help the queen, he tried to help the Southsun refugees, he tried to help the pact in Verdant Brink, and he came to us in Amnoon to help clean up. Now he's deep in Joko's domain with us, rushing into enemy lines. sniffs* My baby's all grown up now.! (Please though, if you add his wonderful outfit to the gem store, give us the option to turn off the neck frills like they're the hat slot or something. Bonus points if the female version doesn't show 90% more skin, I'd like some outfits that hide my shape a bit so I can look androgynous...)!! I know a lot of people are complaining about the size, but for the most part I think it was a good call to keep Kourna a smaller map. I have been so, so irritated by the choices to have only 2-3 waypoints in giant zones lately. I still haven't touched much of Sandswept because by the time someone calls a bounty I can't get there before it's dead (even if it's a legendary)! I like the general idea of Sandswept but the choice to put the two waypoints in a tiny strip near the center of the zone instead of having three - one each for southish, middle, and northish - was terrible.!! Please open up more of Gandara or make it more of an actual meta event. Please, please, please. If you can implement Palawadan, you can open up more than one street in Gandara. I believe in you, ANet.!
! I was anxious about the Blish's arm mechanic, but it wasn't bad for having to use another 'weapon' set especially since you can use it as an on/off kit with ease. Introducing the skills one-by-one was a good choice that took away a good deal of the frustration I felt with Caladbolg and Sohothin.!! The beetle is fun! BUT: I worry that the Leyline Anomaly will prevent people from being able to get the beetle in the future. I absolutely encourage collections that take you around the world and implement old content. And I understand the intent behind the Leyline decision. "Nobody is doing these, let's give them an incentive." But considering that I'm often seeing people unable to get their Corrupted Facet for the griffon, which is always in the same place in the same populated current-expansion zone, I worry that the Leyline step is quickly going to turn into "people don't know when these things spawn where, don't take multiple people/a group, have no idea how to fight it, fail repeatedly, have to wait at least two more hours, etc. and that's just gonna get more difficult as time goes on.!! For now, while people are still enthusiastically doing it en masse, it can stay as is. But I can almost assure you there will be complaints and players leaving out of frustration down the line if not changed.

Last story step:

! Fading out laser traps while you can't always see them due to cooldown and are also in constant danger of being on fire are one of the most annoying things I've seen in-game. I'm fine dealing with the ring mechanic and jumps in combination with the non-simple fire patterns. But hey, between a combination of instinctively trying to dodgeroll past them and me just being plain bad at the fading in/out ones due to sight issues and cooldowns on the ring, I managed to get the achievement for all of Joko's taunts! I'm not asking you to tone this down, I guess. There are players with various types of disability that wouldn't be able to get past this part at all. But even though it was annoying to me, others are going to be thrilled (see: the achievement). Not everything will match my playstyle, and that's a-okay.!! This entire episode was made greatly easier by having just one more person around. I'm honestly not sure if I could have finished the last instance solo though, as a sword weaver. I have little crowd control, and my only somewhat consistent ranged option is Ice Bow, so I'd be largely useless when I had to stand on the platforms to avoid the beetles on the floor. (This is part of a larger design flaw with sword Weaver, imo - needs a few small ranged attack options that don't require you to have a specific skill slotted. Phase shift on bounties is so annoying like this.) When I died and checkpointed the first time - which I had to do to switch to a ranged option since eles don't have weapon swapping - I barely had enough time to switch to staff before a scarab came and exploded on me while I still had my inventory up haha.!! Honestly though, how much do I really trust that he's gone? Mmmm we saw (or rather, heard) a body, but...there's no way it's that easy, after centuries. And gods know what that did to Aurene. (But please Aurene, stop Ex Machina-ing things, I was genuinely enjoying the joko stuff.) I was really hoping he'd stick around until Mad King's Day so we could learn the origin story of their squabbles. I guess there's a possibility we still could, even if retroactively. Please give us that lore! (And also more lore about Joko's early years and rise to power, please.)!! That dialogue though, that cutscene! That was amazing! Kudos to Nolan North, the animators, and the writers for giving me chills. If that was indeed the end of him, you hit it out of the park. Things have been going downhill for our commander mentally since at least episode 3 (we get a lot more curt and sarcastic) with a lot of it coming even earlier if Sylvari. Joko found just the sort of weak point that's gonna keep us awake at night, I think. As someone with abuse-related PTSD, I can attest that the smallest of mistakes can leave you crumbling mentally if you think you're not good enough or letting people down, so I could see our overwhelmed and jaded commander really getting hit hard by "what if Joko was right?" when they mess up or have to make a choice between the lesser of two evils - which has basically been every choice we've made since S3, ahaha.!! So, um...Joko's scepter legendary when? I want it so much. It was a scepter in GW1 but it looks more like a staff here. I'd prefer it be a scepter (maybe we melt it down?) since we already have two staves and Meteorologicus is - while cool in theory - incredibly tacky. But my necro's name is literally "Mrs. Joko" and I need that in her grubby little hands.

I'm rambling so much that nobody probably has time to read all of this, but...there was good, there was bad, and there was a whole lotta awesome.

[Segrrock.8041]

We just had a story with PoF where we had a series of confrontations with the bad guy. Doing that again would just be Balthazar Mark II. Instead, we get a villain who thinks differently. His motivations are different, his goals are different, and he ramps up his plans so the heroes don't have a lot of extra time to martial their forces. He puts it all on the table because he figures pushing the confrontation quickly plays to his strengths. He saw what happened when Balthazar didn't keep the right focus, and thought he could succeed with a different strategy.

Additionally, while people can lament him being gone too quick, we never got sick of him. It's better to burn out than fade away.

[Raizel.8175]

The ending really felt boring and anticlimatic.

I also hope that they stop to pull the deus-ex-machina-move.

[foozlesprite.8051]

@Blaeys.3102 said:This is poorly designed and should be addressed as soon as possible. Either take that requirement out of the collection or make the beetle a champion/spawn more often. Gameplay that requires sitting around in a map with nothing else to do hoping you aren't taking a drink or looking away when the boss spawns is just bad - and even worse, boring - game design.

I'd recommend they just make it a collection item out there, a scarab you can click on that ground or something. Find some kind of bush or tree (whatever scarabs are associated with more) and harvest/chop to grab it for the collection. Everybody can harvest from the same node as well, which would help the issue. OR put it in a different place for each person in the area, and possibly require the raptor/springer to get to some of the locations. Just some options to make it more engaging.

[Juillin.5361]

While I agree that I feel that it happened kind of quickly, I don't think "rushed" is the best word for it. In general, the recent story content, Living World and expansion, arcs have been very... staccato. They bounce from one idea/line to the next without dwelling on the "current situation" too much (and that includes the downtime between chapters and the instances within those chapters.) "Divinity's reach is under attack! - never mind, it's over." When it comes to someone like Eir or Vlast dying, there's usually a minor note of "Aw, (s)he's gone.." and your quest marker goes "off to the next thing!" without making too many callbacks to what just happened.

Granted, the more recent stuff IS getting better at giving you a little closure at the end of the episode rather than just suddenly drop-like-a-hot-tamale you used to get (see: Heart of Thorns,) It's not a bad thing in that it keeps the story moving, but it sometimes does prevent you from being able to sit back and 'be in the moment' for some of the bigger (more important) events.

[Blocki.4931]

It's no use complaining about the "farmed mob spawns" because the issue only exists on release. It's also not that difficult to still land a hit for kill credit.

[Reenee.9813]

You raised the bar so much with the latest episode.However, I want to say that the new map is... lackluster. The drops and rewards are underwhelming and the meta... What's up with the meta? Why are there 3 lanes and we only use one of them?Unless you'll add some content into it, sad reality is that the new map will quickly be abandoned. I don't know what's going on, but I am having some faith that you will find the right balance for meta-centric and explorable maps.But please, do something for the Moon fortress meta.

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

Didn’t realize you made a second one until I saw it was added.

Not every enemy needs to be drawn out. Nobody had a dragon before either or at least not one that hid below the Crystal Desert.

I would agree that not every enemy needs to be drawn out, however, not every enemy has as deep a backstory as Joko. Killing him so soon so easily makes his claims of eternalness shallow and his history as an unriveled conquerer and surpresser unbelieveable. I have no problem with the method used to end him, it was just too soon.

He boasted about a lot of things that weren’t true. Would killing him after episode six really be that much of a difference?

While its true he likes to brag and steal others credit, it is a fact he conquered and surpressed elona and that he was technically unkillable

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:Not reading thread to avoid spoilers. Just wanted to chime in really fast with a small gripe. The Herald. Aside from the worry that Anet is going to turn around and say they are also "E", I really hate that they come across so capable and knowledgeable in their letters to you through core game leveling and when you meet them, they are basically a teenage fangirl. Its kind of obnoxious as a character portrayal.

Odd, they used to be adult Human males.

[Avster.1935]

Here are my thoughts on the new episode.

Pros: Good story, animation, cutscene, dialogue and mount!Cons: Bad map design, wasted potential on the Moon Fortress, I felt it was extremely underwhelming, likewise with the meta.

I'm not sure what took so much time to release this episode, but it certainty felt like map design was not a priority and/or it just wasn't executed properly.

Overall: Probably will become of the least visited maps in the future, and that's a shame.

[Myrdreth.6829]

Good riddance! I hate undead beings, they are just so...eww D: Doesn't matter how interesting or important to the story they are, I simply don't like them. I am glad it's over now.

But I must say, he was really funny at the end. I especially liked the insults he threw at Braham.

[Walhalla.5473]

The meta for that map is... Well its very dissapointing and it feels like content was cut from it. I mean we are in Gandara. The Moon Fortress and all we do is punching some containers in a back alley? A huge step backwards compared to both metas in Sandswept Isles, not to mention the Istan metas. I even tried to use mounts to get to the rest of Gandara only to be met with invisible walls. :(There is so much wasted potential here.

The Storytelling itself goes up and up. Especially with the cinematic at the end. I was really impressed.... And then we just get a draconis ex machina. Srsly. That was so dissapointing, especially after your story-telling went quite up. Using DEM to kill off an important character in the lore is just a really big miss, like we were in season 1 again storywise.

[Raizel.8175]

@"Juillin.5361" said:While I agree that I feel that it happened kind of quickly, I don't think "rushed" is the best word for it. In general, the recent story content, Living World and expansion, arcs have been very... staccato. They bounce from one idea/line to the next without dwelling on the "current situation" too much (and that includes the downtime between chapters and the instances within those chapters.) "Divinity's reach is under attack! - never mind, it's over." When it comes to someone like Eir or Vlast dying, there's usually a minor note of "Aw, (s)he's gone.." and your quest marker goes "off to the next thing!" without making too many callbacks to what just happened.

Still, just pulling a deus ex machina is stupid and bad storytelling. The guy was set up as major antagonist and died just too easily. It just doesn't fit at all, especially considering how powerful he got during E2. In that regard, it does feel rushed.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Anet has a lot of interesting little tidbits of story they literally get done with and move onto the next hype thing. It looks like a child playing pretend and they have eaten a lot of sugar: one minute they are playing with the robot toys from the future and the next time you look they've jumped to a completely different and unrelated world of dragons and liches. They need a professional writer. As in someone who can actually write a book cover to cover and link up all the pieces. Ree used to do that but she left last year and apparently it is showing. Not to say things like Scarlet weren't hyper over the top, but at least* things still were coherent enough (even if the coherence was maintained by the goddess of Mary Sues...). Mordremoth's arc was full of shortcomings and yet it had a clear beginning and ending, with a proper building up to the last encounter and a meaningful delivery that made the villain something we still wonder about up to today. After PoF though, we just have this amalgamation of separate mini stories. Balthazar? Yeah he was just evil after all, Anet hinted at motive and forgot about it, move along people.

Is this a bad thing? You bet it isn't, as long as they use original characters and do not invest/reuse GW1 characters. Using someone who had plenty of background lore to begin with (Lazarus, Balthazar, Joko) to portray your miniboss story instance is really bad for long term narrative. Which leads to my point: there is no longer any narrative to Guild Wars 2, it's just these separate tidbits that are amazing in standalone but mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. This episode could very well have skipped the previous 2, and likewise Joko was merely peripheral to the Inquest-driven plot of episode 2, as well as the first episode only loosely sets up the one following from it. I think this might have to do with the fact that Anet uses different teams to write each episode, and apparently they don't talk to each other at all or are just bad at talking to each other.

[Sardeth Wynn.9548]

To the Devs that added the Leyline Anomaly to the collection for the new Mount, (Because I havent gotten past this yet)Did you think this though?Of Course not, so I am sitting at Gendarran Fields, watching the timer aaaaaand its over before I even get an event notice that it spawned, I don't even know how many were there, did see a lot of the new mounts. (Turned setting way down so I would stop lagging)Why you didn't think, if you get newer players, the shiny over this will have faded, people will not be doing this as much and expect the forums to be flooded with comments about how there is no one doing this anymore, people will be complaining about paying to unlock the content and able to .... well you know.Then you get the "Should have moved faster", "That's the breaks just have to wait another 2 hours, LOL see you then."Just add a merchant, make it one of the other collecting events, heck what the hell is that Leyline gathering tool we craft actually FOR? Could have had something in Dry Top, no you did this. Which will bite you if you get new players in a year or two.Personally, I don't like being the new content.

[Ara.8540]

Huge, huge props to the team who designed the roller beetle. I watched the youtube video about your process and I'm just so blown away. The whole mounts system in general in GW2 is the best of any MMO I've played, and the beetle is just above and beyond in terms of fun to use.

I also loved the story chapter. I got hit with the feels big time when all our allies ported in one group at a time through the rift - nice touch there! And the finale fight/surprise ending... HAHAHA.

The meta leaves a lot to be desired. I thought with the different fronts it would make for a more involved multi-prong assault on Joko, but it didn't turn out that way.

[Bunny.9834]

I really like this episode. It's very entertaining and it gives drammmmaaaaa.