Feedback: Official Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Feedback [MANY SPOILERS]

[RoseofGilead.8907]

I love the roller beetle mount. I enjoyed the story. But I hate seeing collections once again tied to failing an event (specifically the vine wall destruction one). I just sat here and watched the wall destruction event happen, with no one around to attack the Awakened; the Awakened managed to only get the wall to about 10% before it ended. And then I tried again, this time killing the first group to let the vet spawn . . . still didn't work out.

[Lord Krilik.3692]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:I loved the way Joko died, it makes sense to me, that the only way to kill an eternal being is to consume the magic that makes him eternal... buuuut, it happened too soon. They spent all of PoF building up how evil and strong this guy is while he was imprisoned, just to kill him off in our first combat encounter, only three episodes after he was released. It was rushed, and he feels less threatening because of it.

I think it would have been better if he died in episode 5 or 6, after we traded a few blows, maybe had a military loss mixed in with our victories. Fought our way throughout more of unexplored Elona chacing/being chaced by him. Id have liked to see more of his twisted personality, merciless destruction, and cruel manipulation.

Joko is a gold mine character for guild wars franchise, one of its pinnacle banners that people associate the series with, there is so much he had to offer, that should have been more thuroughly explored. The death of Joko is a death of a Flag Bearer, such deaths can be the highlight of the game that draws players to it, hitting their sweet spot with a heavy emotional blow, the impact of which resonates with long term fans. Or it can just be wasted, and now an interesting dynamic belovid character is gone, and the game is now that much less interesting without him.

In Nightfall we mostly learn of the damage he caused to Elona in the past and that he was imprisoned because he cannot die. We are actually the reason he gets re-released, and over the next 250 years he takes over Elona again with nothing to take him down. He's clearly had a big impact on the world though. Shrines and monuments to him are everywhere, people are praising him, choosing to become awakened, his army is HUGE and Vabbi has totally sold out to him.

The lore they built in the time between GW1 and 2 was the real build up. 250 years of it. And to get there and see for ourselves what our own GW1 actions have created really hits home. We knew since GW2 launched that we would eventually go to Elona and witness Joko's control, but in the end he was tossed aside in favor of Balthazar who, so far, still seemed totally shoehorned in to a story that was meant to be focused on Dragons and other local strifes (Joko being one). Are we really clear on why Balthazar made his appearance? What his significance in the story was? It seemed like an extra moving part we didn't need and instead wasted the anticipation of the Joko story. Then, when Joko finally becomes the villain, he's in and out in 1 episode. Just like that? We are supposed to believe that no-one else could raise an army against him in 250 years and we walk on in and do it in one swoop?

So for what it's worth I agree with you. I have a feeling a lot of people posting here don't realise the extent of the build up they gave this guy - probably they only played GW2. He's been plaguing Elona for centuries and we were finally going to see what makes him so tough in game. Instead he was under-utilized.

[Randulf.7614]

@Lord Krilik.3692 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:I loved the way Joko died, it makes sense to me, that the only way to kill an eternal being is to consume the magic that makes him eternal... buuuut, it happened too soon. They spent all of PoF building up how evil and strong this guy is while he was imprisoned, just to kill him off in our first combat encounter, only three episodes after he was released. It was rushed, and he feels less threatening because of it.

I think it would have been better if he died in episode 5 or 6, after we traded a few blows, maybe had a military loss mixed in with our victories. Fought our way throughout more of unexplored Elona chacing/being chaced by him. Id have liked to see more of his twisted personality, merciless destruction, and cruel manipulation.

Joko is a gold mine character for guild wars franchise, one of its pinnacle banners that people associate the series with, there is so much he had to offer, that should have been more thuroughly explored. The death of Joko is a death of a Flag Bearer, such deaths can be the highlight of the game that draws players to it, hitting their sweet spot with a heavy emotional blow, the impact of which resonates with long term fans. Or it can just be wasted, and now an interesting dynamic belovid character is gone, and the game is now that much less interesting without him.

In Nightfall we mostly learn of the damage he caused to Elona in the past and that he was imprisoned because he cannot die. We are actually the reason he gets re-released, and over the next 250 years he takes over Elona again with nothing to take him down. He's clearly had a big impact on the world though. Shrines and monuments to him are everywhere, people are praising him, choosing to become awakened, his army is HUGE and Vabbi has totally sold out to him.

The lore they built in the time between GW1 and 2 was the real build up. 250 years of it. And to get there and see for ourselves what our own GW1 actions have created really hits home. We knew since GW2 launched that we would eventually go to Elona and witness Joko's control, but in the end he was tossed aside in favor of Balthazar who, so far, still seemed totally shoehorned in to a story that was meant to be focused on Dragons and other local strifes (Joko being one). Are we really clear on why Balthazar made his appearance? What his significance in the story was? It seemed like an extra moving part we didn't need and instead wasted the anticipation of the Joko story. Then, when Joko finally becomes the villain, he's in and out in 1 episode. Just like that? We are supposed to believe that no-one else could raise an army against him in 250 years and we walk on in and do it in one swoop?

So for what it's worth I agree with you. I have a feeling a lot of people posting here don't realise the extent of the build up they gave this guy - probably they only played GW2. He's been plaguing Elona for centuries and we were finally going to see what makes him so tough in game. Instead he was under-utilized.

Really well put forward points. esp the middle paragraph

[Hesacon.8735]

We got some extra Zhaitan lore in LW3 episode 6 when the Risen became Unchained. This episode does a similar thing to the Awakened, and it's likely not the end of Joko's story, even if it is the end of Joko.

[Ashantara.8731]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:I loved the way Joko died, it makes sense to me, that the only way to kill an eternal being is to consume the magic that makes him eternal... buuuut, it happened too soon.

I don't feel like the story was rushed at all. I liked the pace, the dramatic build-up. It's almost one and a half seasons since we were confronted with him (counting the PoF expansion as a full season). If you want a comparison of an awful pace in story-telling, look at the annoying, badly written Balthazar storyline (at least during season 3, it was then resolved satisfactory in PoF).

@"Lord Krilik.3692" said:I have a feeling a lot of people posting here don't realise the extent of the build up they gave this guy - probably they only played GW2. He's been plaguing Elona for centuries and we were finally going to see what makes him so tough in game. Instead he was under-utilized.

I disagree, and your argument actually supports my stance: he had a storyline throughout GW1 and GW2. That was long enough, no? ;)

But then again, someone will always be disappointed about some NPC's story "being rushed." For instance, I felt the story of the Gods leaving Tyria rushed in PoF. In my opinion, it deserved more than just Kormir and one story instance. It could have been more, but it wasn't. And although said story mission was wonderfully executed, part of me will always feel a bit cheated on the fate of the remaining Five. I would have loved for their departure to not be so final.

[Fox Reeveheart.1890]

That final dialogue was utterly fantastic, that is some movie villain tier stuff, fantastic.

I'm sitting there like "HE'S MONOLOGUING! GET HIM!"and what do ya know? XD

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Blocki.4931" said:I agree with arden

And I'm also glad to see your skepticism turn into something positive ;)

Where have I been skeptic? I liked PoF (with the exception of the quality of dialogue here and there and the level of humor) and I love LWS4 so far. I am always honest and straight forward, and if there is an aspect I dislike, I address it - that doesn't equal "skepticism", though. ;)

I was being skeptic a lot about the current state of the game and its future during LWS3. :#

[Blocki.4931]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:I agree with arden

And I'm also glad to see your skepticism turn into something positive ;)

Where have I been skeptic? I liked PoF (with the exception of the quality of dialogue here and there and the level of humor) and I love LWS4 so far. I am always honest and straight forward, and if there is an aspect I dislike, I address it - that doesn't equal "skepticism", though. ;)

I was being skeptic

a lot

about the current state of the game and its future during LWS3. :#

Maybe I mixed something up. I had you as "tilted towards negative" in my head for some reason :D

[Celsith.2753]

@Blocki.4931 said:

Why am I saying that? Because fighting an uninteresting boss that doesn't even damage you is extremely uninteresting and yet it seems to have become the norm.If you really want to continue releasing maps that will be abandoned faster than the dungeon development then you can feel free to do so. I will expect absolutely nothing for the next map

Maybe this is their response to all the players complaining everything is too hard.

My feedback - too much talking in instances, if I wanted to watch a movie instead of play, I would.I love the beetle even though it makes me feel dizzy and sick after too long.While I like the map I see no reason to ever go back there. The meta is short and dull. The only pleasure I got out of that was telling all the people that couldn't get to the loot that it was because it was asura only ;)

[Multigun.9871]

I felt like the story was rushed, but not in the same way. The missions themselves were long, but there was only a tiny handful. I felt like the episode needed 2 or 3 more missions before the final battle. It could have had our first attempt at battling joko only for him to escape. I barely felt any connection to any of the regular supporting cast, just not enough time spent. It was oh hey, time to invade and boom, done. It was supposed to be some grand huge Joko army, and it was demolished in an instant like they were fly's. This whole episode lacks on content, map, achievements, and the story. The only thing I felt was done well was the beetle and the final battle itself.

[zealex.9410]

True feels kinda wasted that he died so early, the last cutscene made me really interested in his character which considering anet's previous attempts at villians its an achievement (also his body language was superb gratz on the ppl that worked on that).

But hey, considering hes dead and he was our main antagonist in elona that might mean that we are likely to see something other than sand next time.

[zealex.9410]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

At any rate, you dont build up a character as an "Eternal being" have him whipe out armies, surpress countries, and build a vast unchallenged empire... and then have him killed in the first face off. If it were that easy, why hasnt anyone done it before??? Bad story telling.

Nah story telling and deliery was good. Nobody propably succeded because nobody had a dragon... which you go over why it makes sense... hence not bad storytelling.

Anyways wat happened to aurene indicated that there might be more to this than just "joko is dead lets wrap up".

[Brother.1504]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Associate the series with him? He had a very minor role in Nightfall that was to the extent of him showing us how to traverse the Wastes.

Thats why everyone and their mother fills twitter, reddit, youtube, the forums, and in-game chat with "Praise Joko", he has a short lived roll, but it was an impactful one.

Because it was a phrase that we constantly heard everywhere in PoF. Very similar to the “I took an arrow to the knee” in Skyrim. Players took amusement to it and made it a meme.

My second point still stands

Didn’t realize you made a second one until I saw it was added.

Not every enemy needs to be drawn out. Nobody had a dragon before either or at least not one that hid below the Crystal Desert.

I would agree that not every enemy needs to be drawn out, however, not every enemy has as deep a backstory as Joko. Killing him so soon so easily makes his claims of eternalness shallow and his history as an unriveled conquerer and surpresser unbelieveable. I have no problem with the method used to end him, it was just too soon.

But. But. We’re the commander. Our day job is save the world and do the impossible while looking fabulous doing it.

[zealex.9410]

@Raizel.8175 said:The ending really felt boring and anticlimatic.

I also hope that they stop to pull the deus-ex-machina-move.

But i found aurene jumping in and saving us believable. It wasnt really a deus ex, those are saved for when aurene is out and we only have taimi around.

[Malediktus.9250]

Funny perception is so different. To me it felt like the worst LS drop since end of LS1.There is just nothing to do. And the story felt rushed as always. How are updates like this supposed to keep the game alive if this is all we get for 3-4 months.

[zealex.9410]

Pros:Joko.

Cutscenes (i loved these in hot dunno why you moved away from them so much. I like what you did in pof with important moments being told in game rather than with a cutscene but as woth anything else in gw2 u really need to going from one extreme to the other and instead find a good balance of both.

Scale (and impact on the world that came with that).

The possibility of going elsewhere in the world. I like the pof asthetic i really think the map design team are goat at what they do but unlike hot they dont manage to make the maps feels as different and unique.

I really want a change in scenery

Cons:

Another desert map (not bad but meh its getting repetitive)

I would like joko to sray for maybe another episode. ( i liked tho how he died and i wouldnt change it)

Mobs on the map dont really seem to reward with loot, low overall map replayability, really miss the hot map metas and gw2 core world bosses.

[zealex.9410]

@zealex.9410 said:Pros:Joko.

Cutscenes (i loved these in hot dunno why you moved away from them so much. I like what you did in pof with important moments being told in game rather than with a cutscene but as woth anything else in gw2 u really need to going from one extreme to the other and instead find a good balance of both.

Scale (and impact on the world that came with that).

The possibility of going elsewhere in the world. I like the pof asthetic i really think the map design team are goat at what they do but unlike hot they dont manage to make the maps feels as different and unique.

I really want a change in scenery

Cons:

Another desert map (not bad but meh its getting repetitive)

I would like joko to sray for maybe another episode. ( i liked tho how he died and i wouldnt change it)

Mobs on the map dont really seem to reward with loot, low overall map replayability, really miss the hot map metas and gw2 core world bosses.

Tldr while the story and the mount hold true to Mike's (the director?) claims of quality, the map and its replayability fall short.

(but thats a lw thing really its just that this map is a prike example of that)

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

I can't believe the Torchwicked him. I agree that it felt too soon. I expected us to stop the plague, but I thought Joko would get away and we would have to fight him more later. I kinda hope it turns out this didn't kill him somehow.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

Alright, I was finally able to finish the last instance, and I believe it was because I skipped the cutscenes.

I LOVE the fact that at the end, all the combat was for nothing. That had to be my favourite part. A whole ~5 minutes wasted, trying to kill Joko, failing, then Aurene comes in and finishes it off. I LOVE, as a player, you making the time I've put into a boss fight meaningless.

/sarcasm

Everyone's dialogue at the end was passable - except for Taimi's and Gorrik's. When Taimi asks about everyone just standing around while Aurene is going at it, in particular. Self-awareness (as it pertains to entertainment) by itself is mundane and useless. There was no joke there, and I was not entertained. Self-awareness is a great SET UP for a joke, but itself is not the punchline. There was no punchline written. The writing was always less than ideal, but seriously, are you guys employing 12 year olds to write this stuff? One line - which is also a massive trope ("Let's cut the chit-chat!") - reminded me of a story I'd written when I was a child. I was hoping that it would eventually get better, but it seems that it is futile to hope for it to change at this stage.

[Bast.7253]

@Hesacon.8735 said:We got some extra Zhaitan lore in LW3 episode 6 when the Risen became Unchained. This episode does a similar thing to the Awakened, and it's likely not the end of Joko's story, even if it is the end of Joko.

Would be interesting if the awakened became the leaders of the unchained and it all just became this giant army of undead that we somehow convince to fight with us against something in the future.

[Tyson.5160]

What is funny to me and really should be looked at in a positive light, I suppose.

Every LW episode I tend to blow through the story in a day. This time around, because of the bugs, I was able to complete the first instance and because of work, I completed instance 2 the following day. That being said I actually spread the story over multiple days and I was very surprised at its length and the amount of content.

Also being a player of Gw1, I have mini freak outs when I see a POI of a landmark in Gw1, which this map has many.

Well done, Devs, I am really enjoying my time in Kourna.

[zealex.9410]

@Artyport.2084 said:Story.The story was great and I'm so happy to see cut scenes like these finnally added it brings a whole new level of story telling that i think has been missing from gw2Map.I do not like this map. The washed out sky the grey floor. The weird way you implemented gandara just seemed rushed and its very sad for lore lovers. the events.. boring.Mount.Good job.New Armorawesome im so happy you guys are adding this.Overall it was a good episode in the feature and story department. bad map tho

New armor?

[Tyson.5160]

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:I loved the way Joko died, it makes sense to me, that the only way to kill an eternal being is to consume the magic that makes him eternal... buuuut, it happened too soon. They spent all of PoF building up how evil and strong this guy is while he was imprisoned, just to kill him off in our first combat encounter, only three episodes after he was released. It was rushed, and he feels less threatening because of it.

I think it would have been better if he died in episode 5 or 6, after we traded a few blows, maybe had a military loss mixed in with our victories. Fought our way throughout more of unexplored Elona chacing/being chaced by him. Id have liked to see more of his twisted personality, merciless destruction, and cruel manipulation.

Joko is a gold mine character for guild wars franchise, one of its pinnacle banners that people associate the series with, there is so much he had to offer, that should have been more thuroughly explored. The death of Joko is a death of a Flag Bearer, such deaths can be the highlight of the game that draws players to it, hitting their sweet spot with a heavy emotional blow, the impact of which resonates with long term fans. Or it can just be wasted, and now an interesting dynamic belovid character is gone, and the game is now that much less interesting without him.

We had a lot of Joko exposure in GW1 in general, in the Bonus Mission Pack, the Nightfall Campaign, cameo in Eye of the North, as well as Halloween festivals.

In Gw2 we had his cameo in PoF, traversing his statues all over Vabbi, then having 3 Living World episodes mixed in there.

When you look at it from the whole picture, we actually got a lot of Joko. We almost had an entire year of Joko being a villain in GW2, while Balthazar was given May to September.

[Tyson.5160]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:We got some extra Zhaitan lore in LW3 episode 6 when the Risen became Unchained. This episode does a similar thing to the Awakened, and it's likely not the end of Joko's story, even if it is the end of Joko.

Would be interesting if the awakened became the leaders of the unchained and it all just became this giant army of undead that we somehow convince to fight with us against something in the future.

With no Joko, the other awakened can go rogue essentially, we saw this in GW1, where there were several quests as well as random pack of mobs that had broken allegiance with Joko since his imprisonment.

Edit: damn, might mean Koss can come back!

[TexZero.7910]

Back with a more polished impression post endless crash arc.

Story

Now that i've been able to complete it i have a few good things to note.

The designers ambitions really came through in both story maps and cinematics. There is a real boost in quality here that was lacking in previous releases.On the not so bright side of this, the sheer scope of these ambitions led to some quirky moments and the use of "stealth action" still feels as clunky as it ever has (See Caithe's flashback story). While the player has a choice of how to approach the option is more often delayed because we have to wait for an npc to give us abilities rather than just having the entire function there and it explained up front which can ruin the stealth action parts as NPC's will find you before he finishes. The actual Stealth is poorly handled as well as the NPC's are way to finely tuned to be alerted to even the most minimal input so long as your within ~600 range. Additionally, I'm unsure if its due to graphics settings or not but the Foliage transformation seldom showed me as a tree but more of a glowy texture of myself (May be attributed to Envoy armor and multiple transformation states). The final fight was great and my only complaint comes with the puzzle segment, the special action key should just be an always on thing for this as at no point do you want it off so it really defeats the purpose for it to have a 13second recharge and 12 second uptime.

Domain of Kourna MapThis feels disjointed even with the beetle and other mounts. The zone hardly feels like its the site of an epic fight both in terms of the primary Meta Events and in terms of enemy density. Half the map feels unused (North Eastern and South Eastern parts specifically)

Overall Rewards....On the plus side there's a new armor...and for the Nth time there's yet another backpiece (seriously ?). Can we have a release where we get something not a backpiece as the thing to work towards ?