Diatribe on Joko and his purpose in the LWS4 story. Ep 3 Spoilers.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

I don’t mind the death of Joko since his plan backfired thanks to the Primeval ghosts (which was a nice touch). The situation demanded a critical strike on Joko himself, and he asked for it. What could he possibly offer?

That said, I really hope this early death will lead to an ambitious plot involving all those who have the power to fill the void in Elona’s leadership.

Balance has been broken once more.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

@"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:This is my rant on LWS4 EP3, Long Live The Lich.I’m sorry, but I need to write it down to get it out of my head and also because I feel it’s deserved. It mostly concerns Joko and his purpose in the story. There are many things that are Great and Amazing about S4, but that’s not the point here. The point is just to bash and bash the parts of the story that fall Real short, so if you don’t want to read it because you don’t like that kind of unfair criticism, that’s okay, I understand – I didn’t like writing it myself either.

Spoilers, if you didn’t know.

• Amnoon seems just fine and quite dandy after Kralkatorrik’s branded wyvern nearly destroyed the place in Ep 1. Everything’s been cleaned up since that attack? No mentions or canonical references of the casualties or cleanup from that attack after revisiting the city? Nothing? Okay. . .

• The Scarab Plague kills about 5 people when it’s “unleashed” into Amnoon. Not even Amnoon fully, just the anchorage and docks. I thought the scarabs were airborn? How come they all die within a minute of them being introduced and bursting out of the sailors’ bodies? Why couldn’t they fly off and spread more quickly?

• And what is this newfound information from Gorrick about generations of scarabs? kitten? I’d never heard of this; I thought the plague was a Plague, an instant wave of fear and dread with death ensuing. It seems like having younger, “undeveloped” versions of the scarabs is a plot device for rising tension in the story. “Oh just you wait, it’ll be Really bad once they’re more mature in the next few story steps! Be ready for it!” It should’ve completely Wiped Out Amnoon and instead just feels like filler tension because nothing really happened as consequence. If Faren died right there and then, along with dozens of other Elonians in the city, it would have made more sense and been worth it.

• By the way, I thought the Olmakhan in Sandswept Isles were being eaten alive and tortured by Scarab Plague experiments. It only works on Humans now? Was that just a different version of the plague? How did it affect them then, but doesn’t affect Gorrik now? Is it a different plague or what?

• Where’s Marjory and Kasmeer? How come the only members of Dragon’s Watch who can die from the Scarab Plague (except yourself if you’re Human) are nowhere to be seen? What’s the point of having the plague “only infect humans” if your emotionally invested human characters are not in any danger from it? Not even mentioned once in this episode, if I’m not wrong. No one cares if Spearmarshal Zaim or Lord Faren dies as much as if Kasmeer or Marjory died. Sure Faren gives a lot of humour to the story, but it’s not Important compared to Dragon’s Watch members, obviously. It feels like a wasted opportunity to give Joko’s threats Any meaning and consequence as well as develop these Static characters who Need screen time.

• Speaking of which, Joko Does NOTHING in his own story. No One dies but Joko himself! What’s the point in a villain that talks a big game and Actually has the power to kill any characters the writers choose, but then he doesn’t because plot convenience? What’s the point? The only thing that happened was Aurene got a little sick from eating his body which will be explained in a later episode most likely since S4 seems to mostly be just about Aurene growing up through puberty.

More Ranting on this topic:

• Why did no one die? All of that tension and fear from EP 1 and 2 is Gone and wasted emotional effort. At least Mordremoth killed Eir and Trahearne, not to mention Faolin and most of the Pact. Zhaitan killed many, many characters from the Personal Story and the Pact, including your Order mentor. Not Immensely impactful, but sure as kitten more than what Joko did, or rather, Didn’t. Balthazar killed Vlast and You, your own player character, along with all the spirits he Forged, including Devona if you played GW1. Who did Joko kill? He didn’t kill Taimi, just terrified her. He killed and awakened a bunch of Inquest (who are enemies, not even allies) that don’t matter personally. He killed and Awakened Koss, but he’s still alive, so. . . point? Is Joko supposed to be on the same level as Caudecus? Just another villain in the story of Tyria to kill off eventually? Even Caudecus killed Demmi Beetlestone and a few of the named Nobles in the Divinity’s Reach garden greenhouse area. What did Joko do? Nothing!

• He brags that he’ll destroy the Commander’s homeland and bring Tyria to an end with the Scarab Plague, but he doesn’t. He infects 1 ship from the Pact and keeps it sailing to Amnoon with “first generation” (cough) scarabs that barely kill anyone. I suppose Councilor Mayameen died, but we didn’t Really know her, like many named NPCs. It sure wasn’t the “end of Tyria” he was threatening earlier in the story.

• And then, get this, he decides Not to unleash the plague again elsewhere, such as Lion’s Arch with Portals to every Main City kitten Kitten Kitten Kitten, but to Taunt the Commander into coming after him in Kourna. Whyyy? Why don’t you just Wait until your “third generation scarabs” are ready? Why even launch an “attack” against Amnoon with only first generation scarabs? It didn’t kill nearly anybody! Just to be a mean, meany jerk and say “Ha Commander! There! Try and stop me now! (even though we just stopped his plague right there) I’ll be waiting for you in Kourna! (why reveal your location) Once I have the full “third generation” scarabs, nothing will stop my plans! (Plot; rising tension, ghost magic at the moon fortress gate stops it anyway, fake tension).

• Where was Agent Kito this whole time? I fully expected and Wanted him to die actually, since he’s been introduced in the PoF story I felt he was a good candidate, especially when the info that “only humans” can die from the plague - that made me think of him instantly. But no, he’s not here either. Joko didn’t kill Anyone important; the tension and threats and fear was all a feint, and it feels gross.

• Why is Kralkatorrik just a stationary rock on the side of a cliff at this point? I thought there was a lot of tension and worry that he might fly off again, branding even more life and twisting it with his modified magic from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Bloodstone, and parts of Primordus, Jormag, and Balthazar energy. What is he doing? Why is there no sense of URGENCY to the situation? It’s like the whole story of the Elder Dragons has to be put On Hold so we can explore this much more charismatic and interesting villain of Joko. . . . and then kill him and get back on course. Why? Why was all of this time built up only to have him die off so easily to Aurene and not even torture or kill anyone important? Why is everyone so nonchalant and ambivalent about his death? No one is celebrating or cheering in happiness that the Scourge of Vabbi has been destroyed! There was momentous joy when Zhaitan fell, some when Mordremoth was destroyed, great joy and praise when Balthazar died, and just hiccups and giggles when Aurene is “having a snack” on Joko’s corpse. “Oh he had the Plague and even the “third generation” (cough) version of it!

• Were we not meant to take Joko as a serious villain? Was this just an exercise in having fun with the story and plot? Am I supposed to just “go along with it” and not actually be invested and worried for the characters of the story? It’s just game with a jokey, funny villain this time.

• I want people to Die in the GW2 story. I want to see Dragon’s Watch go through major hurdles and setbacks. I want to see plans backfire, to see the consequences of failure. Just having the consequence be “oh, this villain got a little stronger – it’ll be a harder fight to fight this time, oh nooo” is really, really aggravating.

• kitten, Blish is a golem and his arm got sent through the portal and his arm is HELPFUL once we're there! Why wasn’t it Taimi or Gorrick’s arm? Why does all of the danger of something going wrong happen to the people Most equipped to stop it? Taimi gets kidnapped by Joko in Ep1, but she Won’t be awakened because she’s safe in her golem, Scruffy. If Rytlock or Canach or Anyone else was kidnapped though, They’d be killed and/or awakened. Faren is nearly attacked and killed by the Scarabs on Amnoon's docks but a nearby local Kormir priestess Just Happens to be a Guardian with a shield bubble that wards off the bugs from eating Faren alive like Councilor Mayameen. Lucky him! The front door of the Moon Fortress, Gandara, is blown up and the third generation scarabs start to emerge but Taimi and Braham try to stop them from coming out. They can’t hold it for too long, but hey, we Also have Ghost magic to help us ward them off! Why is everything so by the numbers and “all according to plan”? Why can’t Joko ever catch us off guard and take advantage of our carelessness or mistakes? Mordremoth did it by taking out the Pact Fleet and corrupting the Sylvari when they thought they were safe attacking from the air. Balthazar did it by confronting us at the top of a rock/plateau where we thought our allies would be. Each time they both managed to kill something as a result, but with Joko, he catches Taimi off guard OFF SCREEN and then, Nothing even happens to her! We have to break her golem but then she rebuilds it two episodes later! Where’re the consequences? What was the point of this story?

I need to cool off. Let me know if I’m off my rockers or if any of my points have merit. I’ll come back when I remember all the good and awesome things about this episode and S4 in general and am less frustrated with the direction the story went in. There’s still more to look forward to and I’m excited to see what happens with Kralk and hopefully Selbbub (please fly off into the ocean so Selbubb can be part of the story). Anyway, looking forward to seeing what happens next; I just hope that someone eventually Kittens Up big time and/or people die and they have to accept the consequences like in real life. The less "it'll all be okay in the end" mentality in the story, the better.What do you think? Agree, disagree?

So you want Joko to come back? JOKO lost to Balthazar, if we kill a "god", which would be easier to kill Joko or arrest him, whatever it takes to do, Aurene eliminate joko for me was a surprise and something good, new villains have to arise, we can not stay with it until Gw3

[Sir Alric.5078]

Are you guys so certain that Joko is actually dead? I mean, Aurene didn't look so well after finishing her meal. Sure, could have simply been an indigestion, but i'm not so sure about that..... expecially because Joko had just finished to brag about how his immortality is vastly underestimated.

Don't get me wrong, i want Joko dead, but i can't shake this feeling that Anet might be trolling us. I will wait till next episode before declaring Palawa Joko dead and gone.

[Randulf.7614]

@Sir Alric.5078 said:Are you guys so certain that Joko is actually dead? I mean, Aurene didn't look so well after finishing her meal. Sure, could have simply been an indigestion, but i'm not so sure about that..... expecially because Joko had just finished to brag about how his immortality is vastly underestimated.

Don't get me wrong, i want Joko dead, but i can't shake this feeling that Anet might be trolling us. I will wait till next episode before declaring Palawa Joko dead and gone.

There's no reason or indication of otherwise. The entire monologue is written as final leaving little room for doubt. As bad as they handled it, bringing him back afterwards would be illogical and even worse writing.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

"Perhaps they'll finally thank me for luring you to me." or something along those lines

brace yourselves for gods being villains everyone

-joy-

That said, I agree with what Konig has said, I will however add that the Human Commander's immunity to the Scarab Plague after returning from the Realm of the Lost is interesting, and I'm just going to chalk it up to it being an actual blessing from Grenthy boy until it is proven otherwise, because it seems oddly specific.

Also that illusion ring just being left there, it could have been Joko, but he also never made any mention of leaving anything to 'help' the Commander. Maybe planted there by someone else?

[Randulf.7614]

@"ThatOddOne.4387" said:"Perhaps they'll finally thank me for luring you to me." or something along those lines

brace yourselves for gods being villains everyone

-joy-

That said, I agree with what Konig has said, I will however add that the Human Commander's immunity to the Scarab Plague after returning from the Realm of the Lost is interesting, and I'm just going to chalk it up to it being an actual blessing from Grenthy boy until it is proven otherwise, because it seems oddly specific.

Also that illusion ring just being left there, it could have been Joko, but he also never made any mention of leaving anything to 'help' the Commander. Maybe planted there by someone else?

I figured it was Joko when he alluded to it directly during one of his taunts (if you keep going into the traps and failing, he cycles through a few things including mentioning the ring)

[Rockin Twilight Sparkle.26]

See, Joko knew that we had a dragon. Aurene showed up in Seized and he was surprised by it, but he shouldn't be surprised by her again. And sure, Aurene is all hopped up on Bath Salts god power (or whatever, he had his power taken but there was still divine fallout, who the heck know,) but we killed Mordremoth, Zhaitan, Balth Salts himself, and for two of those it was about hitting them in the face a bunch of times. We hit Joko a bunch of times in the face and he still got up, reset his bones, gave us that whole 'Imma tell you how the next few minutes of your life are gonna go' speech before he got divebombed(Side note: I actually kinda chuckled at that. One of those 'all according to keikaku moments)I dunno how Joko's immortality works, if he has a phylactery or whatever... time will tell, and I really hope that it tells something satisfying because honestly, looking back over this story release?

I've been trying to say for awhile that ANet was back on the up and up because it seemed like they were getting it back together. I've played this game since launch (I has a Rytlock statue) and it got me into GW1. I like this game and this universe and for the most part, the writing... but some of the missteps? And then there's this story mission where

As stated above, suddenly the Scarab Plague doesn't affect non-humans because... uh, good question. Sure, maybe this will be answeredThe Scarab Plague needs to be bred out a couple generation because of other reasons. I mean, alright... perfecting the strain or something. Its fake tension, but okay

Joko dragging his heels to taunt us? Thats all part of his plan, I can take that. Joko (if its the real Joko) is about his ego and we're a real threat to his regime and his empire. We've personally upset him more than a couple of times, he swore revenge

Palawa Joko: Come back here, pathetic mortal! This is your last chance. I will return to reclaim my throne.Palawa Joko: And I will have my revenge on those who put me here, who left me here, and who dared take advantage of my absence.Palawa Joko: The torture... ah yes, I have plotted it out...Palawa Joko: I will just laugh as their wretched pleas for a longer life turn to desperate cries for a faster death.

But a friend of mine who played 'be my guest' with my proposed the notion that maybe this isn't really Joko, that its a good facsimile. Arguments against that are that the Awakened were shaken up by his 'death'

But well, the awakened were fine (for the most part) when he was in the Domain of the Lost, save for at least one in the Desolation who's raging because Joko has left themAnd when Joko was imprisoned under the sands of the desert, the Awakened functioned. Them being dazed could have just been some ploy to make the 'Fauxko' that we fought seem more legit, something like that... or its an Awakened Mesmer usurping the throne/keeping the empire together. Given the number of illusions that Joko was throwing up basically the entire episode?

Also, did anyone else find it really weird that Councilor Mayameen is just so... blatantly racist? It really felt like it came out of nowhere, just a sudden 'yeah Asura are sickly looking and I don't trust them'

I can probably think of more to complain about later, but... really, I just don't know what to feel about this

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@WafflingMean.4351 said:

1. The Elder Dragons are built up as the main villains, but what's wrong with bringing more characters into the mix?Nothing, but that doesn't change the fact they will always be side characters becuase of it, and thus, will be treated like it.Arenanet realised they don't make interesting villains. That's why we we've been up against non Elder Dragon villains ever since HoT.Except Kralkatorik, which has been the looming main threat during and since Path of Fire.
2. The Elder Dragons have an extreme hunger for magic. They have the power to go out and get it. So why don't they move?Because they have minions to absorb magic and bring it to them, which is how both Zhaitan and Mordremoth worked. Primordus only moved to a ley nexus area so he could take more of Zhaitans magic, but as Taimi pointed out, dragon magic is inherently drawn to dragons, so it would have moved to Primordus regardless.
3. The end of PoF and the start of LWS3 made Kralkatorick out to be a massive imminent threat.Will he is because he could do something, and with his new peors, that something would be very bad. That he isn't doesn't change the fact that the characters recognize he could be.
4. Palawa Joko brought an entire country to its knees. He wiped out some of the greatest powers humanity has ever known and has been one of the most powerful monarchs (if not the most powerful one) in Tyria for 250 years.He brought a country of idiots who chose to do little to nothing to stop him to its knees, broke an organization(The Sunspears) who were already floundering, andI love how they've done Joko, I just think there should have been more of him.The only thing more they could have done with Joko at this point is have him retreat(yet again) to Jahai, since that is his last major fortress we haven't totally smashed up, and then have us follow him there and beat him over Jahai like Turai did.... then he would have been killed, imprisoned, or otherwise isposed since there would be no more locations for him to move to to continue his story.
5. If people don't suffer for their mistakes and there are no consequences to large actions and the story does not get serious often enough,The world is already suffering for the Commander'sm istakes, magic flows throughout the land empoering monsters into massive size and strength. Eir is dead, Taimi almost died, Braham is a psychological mess, one of the gods is dead, etc.
6. Do you understand how powerful the Mursaat were?Yes, they were so powerful that after we learned how to see past their invisibility, and got infused armor to combat the one really powerful spell they had, they literally became generic mobs we killed en-mass in the last game of GW1. They had an interesting gimmick power that everyone learned to negate 250 years ago. Lazarus was a powerful spellcaster, but so are a lot of other people, and those other people have entire armies to boot.Lazarus would know how to escape into the Mists.He would have never shared it, making that knowledge irrelevant to the story.I came up with all of that in a few seconds.And none of it would have ever happened because Lazarus has no reason, dire, or motive, to work with people who tried to kill him in the past, and when he can easily JUST save himself by poofing, and waiting for everyone else to die. There is no realistic scenario in which Lazarus would have helped us, or told us anything.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

just about the charr dying in the inquest lab:

they died, but they were not good hosts. The dialogue from the environment tells you exactly that.

[Tiny Doom.4380]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I never saw Joko as the big villain of the franchise, I don't think Anet did either. He was a pretty overrated character, and I don't think it matters that nobody has died yet as this season is still in the very early stages.

Exactly. He was, at most, a bit of fan service for a particular cadre of GW1 fans. Mostly he was a self-hyped wannabe godlet who got what was coming to him. The key thing he provided was a little ironic foreshadowing for the pending disaster we (the player character and friends) have set in motion. Perhaps now we can get back to the plot.

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:just about the charr dying in the inquest lab:

they died, but they were not good hosts. The dialogue from the environment tells you exactly that.

They still died of the scarabs. Being a good host is not relevant to Joko's plans. As long as he has enough "good hosts", it should not matter if charr are "bad hosts." Dead bodies are dead bodies and are fodder for his army. This entire thing may have just been a lazy attempt to avoid making awakened models for other races.

[Rockin Twilight Sparkle.26]

@Tiny Doom.4380 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I never saw Joko as the big villain of the franchise, I don't think Anet did either. He was a pretty overrated character, and I don't think it matters that nobody has died yet as this season is still in the very early stages.

Exactly. He was, at most, a bit of fan service for a particular cadre of GW1 fans. Mostly he was a self-hyped wannabe godlet who got what was coming to him. The key thing he provided was a little ironic foreshadowing for the pending disaster we (the player character and friends) have set in motion. Perhaps now we can get back to the plot.

'He's probably actually dead and wasted and that meant that he was never really important, psshh stop obsessing over it, gawd'

He was heavily established in the lore of Guild Wars 1 and 2 to be a significant threat. Turai Ossa's greatest victory was that over Palawa Joko and even then he didn't kill the dude. Joko was integral to stopping Abaddon during Nightfall. Joko managed to reclaim his empire and take over Elona in the years following Nightfall. The Order of Whispers consider him to be a legitimate threat, one who they're trying to think of the best way to replace him because he's become so important to the region

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agent_Hamna

But yeah guys, keep on telling us that Joko wasn't ever important.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:But worse, however, was that this was just pure out completely anti-climatic. Firstly, Joko dying in a draconis ex machina way is just poor writing. Yeah, sure, you get your 15 seconds of shock from Aurene doing what she did, but that style of death is more appropriate for your Starscream styled villain. Of which, Joko was not.

Secondly, you just took THE villain of the entire franchise, and turned him into a freaking half-time miniboss for the plot. Seriously? You put Joko on par to Caudecus? Not even that, but he hardly got any screen time. Very few villains get a proper amount of screentime in this game - the only villain that has, imo, was Scarlet... who I detest for the quality of her design. I'm not upset he died - I kind of expected him to, just not so soon.

I don't think we've seen the last of Palawa Joko.

If we had actually killed him his awakened would have dropped dead, not merely enter a state of stupor. That means the power that keeps them (Joko) remains. Lich Lords are notoriously hard to be rid of. They have what's called a phylactery.

What we've (Aurene) done is destroy his body and perhaps consumed a good bit of his power. He's been effectively side-lined for a minute but he can come back again.

In GW1 even before Joko broke free of his confinement the first time, awakened still existed from his past efforts even if he himself was no longer a threat or a direct presence in the world.

They were merely leaderless and had begun to form their own hierarchy in his absence. What can happen now is he can eventually make a new body if certain conditions are met.

Perhaps he'll cause problems for Aurene in terms of possession attempts or bogging her down, forcing us to enter a deal with the devil. She didn't seem well after her meal.

Could also just take over one of his stronger thralls.

As long as his phylactery is out there, Palawa Joko isn't dead for real. Of course bad writing can skip over this and he just got nom'd to death, but it remains to be seen. I don't suppose the awakened remaining in existence was an accident.

[Blocki.4931]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:just about the charr dying in the inquest lab:

they died, but they were not good hosts. The dialogue from the environment tells you exactly that.

I read this thread and thought exactly that.

They've actually set up many of these plot devices for this episode in the previous releases, it's just that barely anybody really remembers because it was either minor or optional.

The ghost army was a cool touch. They DID have a score to settle with him after all. It made sense they would be there for the "final fight" against him. I don't understand the complaints I've seen in the other thread about that one.

I don't think Joko deserved to die the way he did, but I believe it's the right way to have ended him. All his pompous arrogance, his empty threats after we have smashed his plans one by one and actually faced him directly, regardless of what he tried. He played his role and died a way that he certainly wouldn't have liked. The great Joko reduced to a meal for a dragon. On that note: The fact he was so surprised about Aurene in the first instance meant to me that he didn't expect her to be this large already. Yes, he should have known that there is a dragon about (it was never mentioned anywhere, was it?) but assuming he has his connections he would know. But he didn't factor in her growth spurt(s) after absorbing the magic. The flaw that would cost him his life.

To me it very much felt appropriate to have him monologue and then just get munched on, because somebody like him doesn't enjoy being bested. Ever since we stopped the hub we had the advantage over him. The plague was nothing more than his last attempt to stop us. It's bull that "hurr grenth magic" saved us from the plague, but they had to do something about this because you can't have something that deadly just inflict the player character. Where would that get us? Die again? Then please as a permadeath and automatic character deletion. Joking of course.

The different plague generations made sense. We know how the plague back then worked, in fact it would have been weird if it just started spreading like crazy after such little time.

So in the end a lot of it comes down to: He had nothing left & was bluffing. I am sure he took great pleasure in denying people their peace by awakening them for his own use. In a way he treasured the finality (and denying it to his minions) of death, so for him to die such an unceremonious way certainly put a dent in his ego if any of that was still left.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:This entire thing may have just been a lazy attempt to avoid making awakened models for other races.

You run into awakened charr and asura though?

Before Joko got the real scarab plague, he had access to inquest researchers who were tampering and experimenting with the plague already before killing and awakening them to continue their work.

On the matter of the Olmakhan deaths: While these charr (and other non-humans) didn't die of the actual scarab plague obviously, it's easy to surmise they died to the many scarab plague based experiments they were subjected too in their effort to recreate the genuine scarab plague.

The inquest are cruel and immoral researchers. They kill their test subjects often.

[Tyson.5160]

@Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324 said:I don’t mind the death of Joko since his plan backfired thanks to the Primeval ghosts (which was a nice touch). The situation demanded a critical strike on Joko himself, and he asked for it. What could he possibly offer?

That said, I really hope this early death will lead to an ambitious plot involving all those who have the power to fill the void in Elona’s leadership.

Balance has been broken once more.

Steps in order of shadows

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Tyson.5160 said:Steps in order of shadowsOr the alliance of most of Elona's major factions that took down Joko.

[Ziooo.8932]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

Couldn't have said it any better, really. Was thinking exactly that when the story ended.

I HATE joko, he reaaaallly annoys me to a level not even braham could, and i really wanted to see him die. By my hands, somehow. Not freaking eaten alive by a Dragon! And holy shit, the last cutscene was so well made story-wise that i actually wanted to see him live longer, to see what would come next, to see if we could get some answers about what he was talking about (we clearly didnt know jack about his past or the way he sees the world) but we got StarWars8'd there: devs just killed every question and speculations we had from PoF-S4E2 and haven't left ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for us to question/speculate (maaaybe about Aurene, but that could be anything). The only question we can ask is "What's next?", since this villain is dead(er).

[Tyson.5160]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Steps in order of shadowsOr the alliance of most of Elona's major factions that took down Joko.

I think the OoS will use Reedemer Kossan as a figure head or a new Turai to rally the people again. If you go look at his dialogue back in the Desolation.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Tyson.5160 said:I think the OoS will use Reedemer Kossan as a figure head or a new Turai to rally the people again. If you go look at his dialogue back in the Desolation.They might try, but if they try to manipulate the political situation too much the Commander will likely step in and put a smack down on them.

I doubt the Commander would appreciate the OoS trying to replace a tyrant with a puppet.

[Feanor.2358]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:But worse, however, was that this was just pure out completely anti-climatic. Firstly, Joko dying in a draconis ex machina way is just poor writing. Yeah, sure, you get your 15 seconds of shock from Aurene doing what she did, but that style of death is more appropriate for your

Starscream

styled villain. Of which, Joko was not.

Secondly, you just took

THE

villain of the entire franchise, and turned him

into a freaking half-time miniboss for the plot.

Seriously? You put Joko on par to

Caudecus

? Not even that, but he hardly got any screen time. Very few villains get a proper amount of screentime in this game - the only villain that has, imo, was Scarlet... who I detest for the quality of her design. I'm not upset he died - I kind of expected him to, just not so soon.

I don't think we've seen the last of Palawa Joko.

If we had actually killed him his awakened would have dropped dead, not merely enter a state of stupor. That means the power that keeps them (Joko) remains. Lich Lords are notoriously hard to be rid of. They have what's called a phylactery.

Do they? Phylacteries are well-established container for the soul of a lich in other fantasy worlds. Whether or not this is how it works in Tyria is just a guess you're making. Regardless, Joko has nothing to offer the story. He delivered his "wtf yo doin, monumentally stupid bro?" line. There's nothing more for him to do.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@"Feanor.2358" said:Do they? Phylacteries are well-established container for the soul of a lich in other fantasy worlds. Whether or not this is how it works in Tyria is just a guess you're making. Regardless, Joko has nothing to offer the story. He delivered his "kitten yo doin, monumentally stupid bro?" line. There's nothing more for him to do.

Don't they?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Khilbron%27s_Phylactery

¯\(ツ)/¯

[Feanor.2358]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Do they? Phylacteries are well-established container for the soul of a lich

in other fantasy worlds

. Whether or not this is how it works in Tyria is just a guess you're making. Regardless, Joko has nothing to offer the story. He delivered his "kitten yo doin, monumentally stupid bro?" line. There's nothing more for him to do.

Don't they?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Khilbron%27s_Phylactery

¯\

(ツ)

/¯

Where does it say it held his soul? Even more - if it did, why is Khilbron actually dead when this item is around in the world?

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:This entire thing may have just been a lazy attempt to avoid making awakened models for other races.

You run into awakened charr and asura though?

The inquest have models but I dont remember any awakened charr.

[Blocki.4931]

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:This entire thing may have just been a lazy attempt to avoid making awakened models for other races.

You run into awakened charr and asura though?

The inquest have models but I dont remember any awakened charr.

There are awakened Charr at the Gandara Main Gate on the map at the very least. They are very unimpressive trash mobs though and I believe their models are really small comparatively lol

They are Olmakhan