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Taimi should probably die.


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I love Taimi....Eir's death was sad, but when it comes to the current status quo of companions, Taimi is a must have! She shows that she is worthy of being Zojja's apprentice and I'd bet even Snaff would've loved to have taught her himself. As for her future...with Blish and Gorrik in tow I'd bet the two of them find a way to help Taimi with her illness. After all, three Asura are always better than one...and more importantly, they are all better than Phlunt! I mean, who here would want to get Phlunted?

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@"Aodlop.1907" said:It would have an impact, it's a really liked character, much like Tybalt. Eir's passing was "meh" because I didn't feel that much invested in her, Taimi's death would hurt though. And so, she should die, in a painful and needlessly cruel way.

No!!!!!!!

Do you have any idea how many people would no longer be emotionally invested in the game if she were no longer here?

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if you think taimi is bad, you have not seen the rest.i can't stand the voice acting of GW2 as a whole since it's amateurish at best, they are getting mildly better but that's about it.taimi is the lease of the problems, when a character like joko has better dialogs then any other i wonder about their priority.

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@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:A chatacter death to draw out reactions and emotions is one of the most lazyplot devices, like in movies where they will kill a dog "I am Legend" purely to make the audience feel sad or whatever.

Considering the amount of characters in a movie versus a tv series versus a video game...I am not sure your comparison is going to be as accurate as possible. The death of the dog (Samantha or Sam if I remember right) is probably more of an impact than the death of Taimi considering the amount of characters present. Will Smith made a bond with the dog throughout most of the movie. Whereas the Commander is developing a bond with several characters for varied duration.

You would be better off comparing a television series to GW2's living story tbh. Not a movie with finite endings where we might not ever really care given it's relative shortness. The depth of Fraiser (a 20 year series) is probably far greater than the depth of Sam the dog (a one off movie or reboot).

So for example: Like some Shounen anime. We raise Goku's power level (the Commander in this instance), and never really fear their death because they can come back if it does occur (Vlast saves the Commander, or any time you die someone can revive you). However, the villains are readily disposable (Dragons and w.e.), and presumably have increasing difficulty (hence the need to raise Goku's power level). Like in Shounen anime television series, we are introduced to a lot characters who aren't necessarily killed off willy nilly, but become "allies." Which is where I sort of stopped caring in Heart of Thorns. Too many for me! At a certain point they ended up being symbols or singularly focused more than characters (Brahman: "Wahhhh mom. D: "). I don't think Taimi's death would help. I'd prefer to stop spamming so many characters, so more time is spent on the ones we already have...

I am not ignoring the usefulness of this writing style in respect to game play mechanics like leveling up. It'd be a very brief MMO if everyone died on inc. So I'm not on the [insert NPC] death train. To merely put all stock into the writing would make a very anemic game. It's not a novel after all (they do make those on the side!). Even with respect to games, the single player experiences will have more flexibility when it comes to writing. I recall ANET noted the constraints of MMO's against such games in some episode discussion.

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@casualkenny.9817 said:

The problem with many gw2 npcs is, they are mostly hi-and-bye, the interaction is quite flat, most of them are 1d stereotypes... Its like, the things that they get upset or emotional about is just so childish and simple.

I don't think that's a GW2 problem but a problem with MMOs as a whole. I get they want to tell a story and for the most part I find it enjoyable. But it would be so much better done with a single player game where the time can be taken. Even then sometimes it isn't but a MMO just presents so many issues that impact story. For every one person that wants them to spend more time to get it right is another wanting them to hurry along. Yes, yes. So they're sad. Now they're happy. Let's move it along. Its sort of interesting that this isn't a single player game given the desire to focus on story but a MMO where story usually comes way after gameplay and gearing.

I saw someone mention the ups and downs of characters and that probably happens due to how the game comes together. Of course no one writes a character to experience such huge emotional shifts without intention. They are probably attempting to get all the story beats in and there are usually lots more there than gameplay. And the interaction we have with the story isn't even that intense with this game. I'm not sure why MMOs started caring about story so much when they don't lend themselves to them very well. Even WoW is doing this but it comes off as rather monotone. But it seems MMOs feel there is a need to have more story with well developed characters. I like it for the most part but surely its trying to mesh two opposing things together. While I've enjoyed plenty of stories in MMOs, they always feel like they suffer. These days we have studios like BioWare known for their storytelling making shooters with it instead of sticking to the one game type that's done it well before when really a barebones story does fine for those. Of course I don't know how Living World would even be a thing if you didn't have a story to give it reason for existing. shrug

I think characters will react and respond how the game needs them to over their personality. Even if incredibly rich and detailed a personality, if they need a reason to move the player to point B and that personality has to suddenly switch to make that happen then it switches. If a character like Taimi dies, its assumed that its done to affect the Commander but since I'm the Commander, I get to decide if he cares or not. You'd have to be writing both to have the results wanted for killing a character. Which is why MMOs are so terribly hard for story telling. Since its 'our' game, we even want to decide how the other characters should behave. Which is why the calls for death, I think since they didn't conform to what we as players may think they should. I think at least. I know when a character annoys me its usually because I don't think they should be acting out of my perceived idea of their character. Don't tell stupid jokes when I think you should be serious or don't put yourself in danger when you know its going to make me go out of my way etc.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Aodlop.1907" said:It would have an impact, it's a really liked character, much like Tybalt.

Excuse me? I know I am not the only one who hated Taimi for the most part throughout LWS3 and even PoF, due to bad writing (bad humor, teen speak that doesn't fir the setting, and her representing an annoyance with her constant tech babbling and "saving the day", which should be our job). Only now, in LWS4, is she becoming a character that I can tolerate and even like. So why have her killed? She provides so much potential for story-telling ever since she showed an unsettling interest in Blish's way of existence (in combination with her physical impairment, it makes for a great Robocop 2.0 story ;) ).

Lord Faren and Braham I would hate to see go as well, now that we are all starting to work as a unit. Why do some players have such a scary tendency to want to see characters die?

You probably are.Taimi is my second favorite NPC of all times, just below Tybalt

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

Taimi, to me hasn't yet shown me/us her true impact on the story.. give her time to grow and the story to unfold.. the story isn't just about 1 person and to date she hasn't been overly used and maybe she will have some kind of Taimi Aurene moment.. time will tell.

In my opinion she has been the character with the single greatest impact on the story, so far. The story may not be just about one person, but Taimi has been over used, the driving force in much of the story.

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It's not really that we want Taimi to die, she is cute and cool. But she is overused, has too much screen time, she is speaking too much. Because Anet fancy her other characters do not get enough time to develop. Also, Taimi is annoyingly smart, not because she is a smart character, but because Anet is using her as a plot device and as a solution to problems. And many of us do not like it. I myself am not enjoying GW2 as much as before, the reason being Taimi The Genius, she is destroying any kind of a cohesive and fluid storytelling.

Without Taimi we would actually have to struggle, have to guess, have to fail, probably even feel a danger. The way it is now, it is a kid show.

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  • I like Taimi and think she adds a lot to the story. I find her character interesting, her dialogue amusing, and her personality quite charming. As a whole, I think she enhances and propels the story in valuable ways.

While I like Taimi, she has dominated every story for a while now. Role-playing is about everyone having some stage time.

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She doesn't have to die, guys. She could retire from the adventuring life, marry Phlunt, and raise a profusion of precocious progeny. I bet she'd name them after her Dragon Swatch buddies -- and one of them might even be called 'Commander'. Wouldn't that be something.

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@Twyn.7320 said:[The original quote was removed because someone reported their message, so this is a repost from before, but I feel like it needs to be said. Now, it doesn't refer to a direct person's message.]

I need to highlight something, because it misses the point of why members of the community dislike the current direction of the Living World. It's not because we're negative and psychopathic. I can enjoy positive characters when they have relevance and their antics aren't forced down my throat. When they actually fit the setting, it can be a really snazzy thing. I could easily say that people who like Taimi and the cast of characters are passive viewers, who aren't actually engaging with the narrative, but engaging with stereotypes that provide escapism. I'm not going to generalise, however.

The section of the community that dislikes this cast of characters want emotion from the narrative. Characters without emotion are boring, stereotypical husks with no relevance. This is why Braham had a lot of potential before he was character-assassinated in this Episode. His deviation from the typical trend of: 'We're heroes in white' was actually interesting. The section of the community that generally disliked Braham tended to bring up that it wasn't a part of his character to do that. The point is: Braham didn't really have character before Episode 3 of Living World Season 3. He was just a walking stereotype, and Anet tried something and for me, it worked. I actually clapped when Braham rebelled, sue me.

The issue that my section of the community has is that we aren't 'represented' in the narrative. Before someone says: 'We don't need to force representation, stop contradicting yourself.' What I mean is: There's a disagreement of philosophies in how people enjoy the Living World because we haven't been shown anything other than a tunnel vision approach of keeping everything the same way across multiple stories. In every single story, it starts and ends with the same outcome: The main heroes survive and we win, we push back the darkness. We never lose. To elaborate the point a bit more:

LWS3 Episode 1: We push back the White Mantle. 'Lazarus' escapes, but the White Mantle are threatened.LWS3 Episode 2: We save Aurene and the Ring of Fire.LWS3 Episode 3: We locate Braham and save him from peril, along with Rox. We prevent the spread of Jormag.LWS3 Episode 4: We defeat Caudecus and the White Mantle. Demmi dies, but she appears in the same Episode. She's a side character, not a main hero.LWS3 Episode 5: We stop Balthazar's plan and the Dragons go to sleep. Marjory gets injured, but survives.LWS3 Episode 6: We kill Lazarus, Livia survives.Path of Fire: We kill Balthazar, Vlast dies but enters as a really meaningless side character, no main hero dies permanently.LWS4 Episode 1: We stop the mass invasion from becoming far worse. Taimi survives.LWS4 Episode 2: We prevent the Awakened from wiping out the Olmakhan. Rata Primus is destroyed. Everyone survives. Joko runs off with a sample of the Plague.LWS4 Episode 3: We kill Joko. The Scarab Plague is destroyed. We all survive. Faren gets injured but survives.

So, in 30 months (presuming 3 months between each Episode), not a single Main Hero has died. The sudden shift in story-telling began with Living World Season 3, so it's the best starting point IMO. This narrative with the Dragons has lasted almost 5-6 years, and the Main Heroes that have died are: Trahearne, Eir, Personal Story Mentor.

And that's all that I can remember vividly. If I've missed anyone, let me know. This isn't meant to be an attack on people who have a positive outlook of Guild Wars 2, but an objective attempt to elaborate on the issues that a section of the community has against the Living World in its current format. Something really needs to change.

I feel plenty of emotion from the various characters, perhaps it isn't the writing that is the issue, perhaps it's the players interpretations that is the issue.

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I just personally feel that in a story of war, and the fight against good and evil characters of significant importance to the viewer/reader/player never dying is really odd and kind of weak and boring if I am being honest. Sure, Trehearne died, but many players resented that character, and at this point that was a long time ago. The occasional demise of a main character that people have an emotional tie to will always bring gravity to the circumstances of the plot, and that safety cannot be assumed or guaranteed and can also enhance the sense of a victory when it's finally achieved by giving it further meaning.

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If i like Taimi as a character, why would it do anything other then disappoint me if the devs decided to kill her off. No offense to the devs but I didn't really feel sad when they killed Eir off, only really disappointed because it just seemed like it was a catalyst to push her son Braham.

Speaking of Braham, I think it would have an impact if we killed him off, he's a really well liked character unlike his mother who I know not many people liked. But killing off Braham would hurt though, and so he should die. Might I suggest maybe him being eaten alive by Jormag.

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This a response to OP, but I think it also applies here at the end. Killing off characters isn't good storytelling if it's just used to create emotional impact. This is something George Lucas argued against with the original Star Wars trilogy. If the story is good which so far I don't hate it, then killing off the main characters is unnecessary plot device.

I could tell from your post you're either newer to the game or just never played Norn. Eir's death was sad for me, the Norn struggle to be a part of any story. We have two Charr Rytlock and Rocks, two Sylvari Caithe and Canach, Many many humans, many Asuran, and only one remaining Norn in the story. I don't like the idea of the Norn always being left out, it would be like the Avengers without Thor. Norn need representation, since they get soo little of it in stories. I admit Braham isn't the amazing character Eir was, if you played the old stories a lot or leveled Norn you'd know how good of a character she was, they never had a need to replace her until the actor could no longer do the character. What would be helpful is if Braham could actually grow up a little in the stories, he's the brash charging in Guardian who acts before he thinks. It's okay for youth to be this way, but Braham has been through injury, losing his mother, and many other obstacles including being knocked down a peg by the commander. It feels like his story arc never took off, that he'll always be the brash youth trying to live up to his mother's legend instead of accepting he needs to forge his own. If he dies off and there's no Norn that would really disappoint me, plus it would kill off the family line of Eir which would be a tragedy given all she's done. Braham just needs to reconcile who he is and then he can work towards being a good representation of Norn. This I have been truly missing from the stories, Norn was my first character the one I built a love of this game around. It disappointing they're always in the north away from the rest of the world when they have soo much love for family and protecting people.

Taimi I really like and to kill her off would be a mistake in my view. She's unique that she's the only true youth of the group, she's still a young teenager and her dying off could possibly alienate a good portion of players. I don't like her always being delegated to narrative, but her enthusiasm is refreshing. Of all the characters she always seems eager to take on the world, and that's a trait which usually diminishes over time.

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@"Aodlop.1907" said:It would have an impact, it's a really liked character, much like Tybalt. Eir's passing was "meh" because I didn't feel that much invested in her, Taimi's death would hurt though. And so, she should die, in a painful and needlessly cruel way.

I'm tired of storylines just "killing people off" because they think it will have impact. Too many stories are going that route since GoT made it popular. If they don't go the "kill the good characters" route, they go the "lets add rape to the storyline" route. Obviously we likely don't have to worry about the latter situation in this game..

How about they just keep writing really good stories with characters people like and enjoy, instead of just killing them off for some superficial tear-jerker moments?

Eir was awful even in the books, which carried over into vanilla GW2. It doesn't surprise me that she died so quickly in HoT. Logan also has proven to be a huge let-down in the story. Really, DE except for Rytlock doesn't seem to hold up well with the way their stories are told.

That is not an excuse to just start hacking characters up.

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I don't think they should off Taimi. She really adds fun to the story with her quirky sense of humor. I find that she really is a vital part for the game too. From her experiments to randomly getting into trouble. While yes her death would add shock value, afterward you're just left with this bad taste in your mouth. Killing a character off feels a bit cheap to me. Especially if it's done poorly. This isn't TWD where we're constantly wondering who's next. That's not what Guild Wars is about to me. There could be so much more story development with Taimi. Personally if they killed Taimi off I would not play the game anymore. I enjoy her character that much. I would simply uninstall and never go back.

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