EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

[Tolmos.8395]

@"saerni.2584" said:

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

No, we should call her sexist because that's exactly what she is. She tried to silence two separate people who had dissenting viewpoints because of their gender alone; adding on that before this event she apparently posted racially disparaging posts about people before that (see other front page thread thread) and that really starts to paint a clearer picture of this situation. This is not someone who should be defended; this is a situation where good people need to speak up and say "This is unacceptable". Because honestly, the sort of hate, vitriol and prejudice she has put on her twitter while representing Arenanet IS unacceptable for many people.

Arenanet owed its users an apology, and should be working to patch up their social media presence.

[Vieux P.1238]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

I’ve already addressed why simply including a descriptive word to describe a behavior associated with men is not sexist. This is fairly simple. To reiterate, men assume themselves to be subject matter experts over women even where the woman has qualifications and the man does not. These men do not behave similarly with other men. Rather, they defer to those men’s subject-matter expertise. This male behavior to explain things, poorly, to women and not to men is sexist.

"I’ve already addressed why simply including a descriptive word to describe a behavior associated with men is not sexist." You keep saying that a particular behavior is associated with men, but provide no reason to believe the association is not sexist. [Many men associate being "emotionally expressive" with women](

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173942

"Many men associate being "emotionally expressive" with women"), without corroborating scientific proof. Therefore the belief that women are relatively "emotional" is sexist until there is corroborating scientific evidence. Do you have scientific proof that men are more frequently condescending to women than the converse?Do you have data or studies suggesting women do this to men? I’m basing this off the reported experience of multiple women in news publications going back over a decade and in conversations with women. Women in this thread have mentioned their own lived experience with this.

Women are condescending. Everyone is at some point. But that isn’t the behavior I’m describing above. What I’m describing is the disparate treatment of women by men. Merely being condescending to everyone would not qualify as mansplaining so much as just general rudeness.I do not have data or studies suggesting women do this to men. You and I are both lacking in scientific proof that men are disproportionately condescending towards women, or the converse, which is my point. Individual anecdotes are not scientific, and that's all you or I are presenting. If I am wrong that you are lacking scientific proof, please cite your sources.

3. In general, this is true. If I said "women are, on average, shorter than men" then I am not being sexist, as that is a verifiable fact that is founded on hard data. However, when a person starts giving special treatment to a person based on their gender/sex (e.g. using "mansplain" instead of "explain), that is the definition of sexism.

No. See above.This is neither an explanation nor an argument. You failed to prove your point above using scientific evidence. Please cite your sources.

We don’t need studies because we don’t need to establish that women are statistically more likely to experience this than men. It makes no sense to require statistical data unless we need to figure out how often something happens.

What we have are a large number of women reporting sexist behavior by men. Anecdotal or not we can’t just dismiss that these events occur until we get mass statistical data. We can coin a term like mansplain because it describes a known phenomena regardless of how common it is.

Let’s break this down logically.

• Men can be sexist.
• Sexist means treating people differently based on their sex, usually by mistreating one gender but not the other.
• When a man engages in explanatory behavior that is condescending towards women but does not treat men the same he is being sexist.
• When people coined the term mansplain to describe this behavior they did so to describe this particular kind of sexist behavior by men.
• The term does not imply only men are sexist.
• The term does not imply that women don’t also engage in similar behavior.

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

Was she commenting that, in general, some men engage in the behavior? Or was she commenting specifically that because it was a man disagreeing with her it had to be due to sexism?

For Ez explanation purpose, Let's just say that she kicked the cute gentle puppy cuz it was whimpering.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@thruine.8510 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@thruinesI've never offered an opinion on how to improve something.

I don't think you understand the situation if you're calling the initial post creative trolling. On twitter people can read and comment tweets and they will certainly do so. You don't have to engage with developers but that doesn't automatically mean nobody should, as long as it's done respectfully, which was the case here.

No, that is my particular case. I didn't say nobody should do so if they wish only I don't. The reasons I don't I gave before. I'm not here to pay you plus tell you want to do is my philosophy. Its one reason when I get bored with a game I move on. I don't take to the forums and cry my little heart out about how painful it is to stop playing? I just don't attach myself to games in that way. I have thoughts about things I may post. I've been thinking of one such post myself. However, and this is the biggest difference, I don't expect to be heard or listen to. I just state my thoughts and if they want to take them then fine. If not, I'm okay that way too. I'm not going to make a post about some issue I'm having with the threat to leave the game over it. If its bad enough, I'll leave well before that point. If I keep playing, I think I've pretty much said its not bad enough to make me quit so no reason for me to make a fuss over it.

I don't disagree... but initially, there wasn't whining about leaving the game but simply about giving feedback on a game.And yes, you cannot expect to be heard or listen to. Absolutely. I've posted countless tweets to different companies asking them stuff, I don't always get answers.But if you -do- get answers, it is expected that they at least be respectful. Giving feedback isn't creative trolling...

[saerni.2584]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:Women are condescending. Everyone is at some point. But that isn’t the behavior I’m describing above. What I’m describing is the disparate treatment of women by men. Merely being condescending to everyone would not qualify as mansplaining so much as just general rudeness.

I've had a boss who was female and was talking down to me. So what? Should I immediately assume she did it cause I was male? No! She did it cause she thought she knew better (and maybe she was right?). People need to stop assuming things. The real feminism is to get everyone together, not this load of non sense that is to always differentiate people and expectations based on gender, race or whatever.Here lies the sexism. It's somehow ok to assume the worst when it comes to men. Guilty until proven innocent. This needs to stop. Now.

EVEN if on average more men are condescending to women (this is certainly true to an extend) than the opposite, it still doesn't mean that this particular person is, indeed, treating you differently because of your gender. It's absolutely counter-productive for the feminist movement to assume these things.

We all want equality, we all want everyone to feel welcome and safe at work. And I wish all the best for this dev who most probably worked hard these past few weeks, but please, maybe take a step back and realize someone saying "I disagree" is simply concerned about the game he likes, rather than some radical politics non sense that has been poisoning us for the past 2 years.

The reaction on reddit and here shows how this isn’t the case. Many are defending him and attacking her. He isn’t guilty until proven innocent so much as innocent until proven guilty. The comments reflect this mindset.

I’d also take a step back and realize that while it may seem “radical” to you, this discourse has a legitimate expression. Rather than attacking her I encourage people to actually have a rational discussion and think about things outside their comfort zone.

It’s not easy, certainly, but it’s worth doing.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Obsolete now, so redacted.

[saerni.2584]

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@"saerni.2584" said:

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

No, we should call her sexist because that's exactly what she is. She tried to silence two separate people who had dissenting viewpoints because of their gender alone; adding on that before this event she apparently posted racially disparaging posts about people before that (see other front page thread thread) and that really starts to paint a clearer picture of this situation. This is not someone who should be defended; this is a situation where good people need to speak up and say "This is unacceptable". Because honestly, the sort of hate, vitriol and prejudice she has put on her twitter while representing Arenanet IS unacceptable for many people.

Arenanet owed its users an apology, and should be working to patch up their social media presence.

Quote me the sexist thing she said. If it’s mansplain you know why I disagree.

Same for racist comments. What did she say that was “racially disparaging?”

[Dreadshow.9320]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Someone from the public adds a perfectly valid counterpoint. -> GoodExpert react as if being attacked, adding an unrelated factor through just one word. -> Whatever

The below poster did a great job of expressing why this is such a problem

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@"Zalavaaris.5329" said:Honestly even if the criticism was sexist... you never... let me repeat that... NEVER treat any customer like that. Even when rude... you just cant do that

Maybe, but I'm not sure I agree. The real crux of the issue is that an Anet employee started an interesting and sensible discussion, received an equally interesting and sensible response from a well known content creator/customer, and called that customer names/publicly shamed them for "sexism" for daring to make a reply. And then was supported by a second Anet employee.

Someone actually being attacked and responding in kind is likely to garner support and a lot of "justice served" type posts supporting her, even if it is technically not the right reaction. This isn't the case here, though, and that multiple employees were involved is what's so disturbing.

I would add that when someone is being publicly shamed for "sexism" on twitter to ten of thousands of followers, the risk for death threats and physical injury is high and very real. Its a major risk to the health of the gw2 community if this became accepted behavior for developers.

That is precisely why I added the 4th point:Community explodes into screams, slaps and rage wedgies. -> What the kitten is wrong with you people?

If you leave it at "watever", the problem don't escalate without need. Do you think either of those two persons are safer now than in that moment?

If no one says anything the problem will repeat itself and the behaviour will become the norm and I don't want to be attack everytime I bring constructive criticism like the target of her attacks did. But you know whatever.

[Ashen.2907]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

No, we should call her sexist because that's exactly what she is. She tried to silence two separate people who had dissenting viewpoints because of their gender alone; adding on that before this event she apparently posted racially disparaging posts about people before that (see other front page thread thread) and that really starts to paint a clearer picture of this situation. This is not someone who should be defended; this is a situation where good people need to speak up and say "This is unacceptable". Because honestly, the sort of hate, vitriol and prejudice she has put on her twitter while representing Arenanet IS unacceptable for many people.

Arenanet owed its users an apology, and should be working to patch up their social media presence.

Quote me the sexist thing she said. If it’s mansplain you know why I disagree.

Same for racist comments. What did she say that was “racially disparaging?”

She targeted ann individual for abuse based on their gender.

[Leo G.4501]

@castlemanic.3198 said:I just feel the need to weigh in my own 2 cents.

1. Female game devs get a lot more hate than male devs. That's just a fact of life

Where are these quantitative facts? I have never heard that female game developers get more hate because they are female. If it's true that female game developers get more hate, maybe it's because the products and changes they push aren't desired? That isn't sexism, that's consumerism.

@castlemanic.3198 said:

4. The dev's ultimate response is one of immediate defense, as is probably natural of anyone in her position. I don't know how it is for female game devs on a personal note, but like I mentioned in point 1, it's just a fact that they get a lot of hate and respond appropriately when they find hate on their doorstep. I think this is the point where JP had over reacted, but I can see how the remark could have been seen as disingenuous and why she would have taken that approach. I've personally seen people pose 'genuine' questions and when answered with civility and understanding, become condescending, angry, and hateful at any responses made, and if JP had perceived the remark as such, it would go a long way to explaining the jump in attitude.

I bet you a large sum of money, if the shoe were on the other foot, and a male game developer were telling a female commentor to go back in the kitchen and make a sandwich or something, this wouldn't be the stance you'd take.

@castlemanic.3198 said:TL;DR: She reacted as any human being would to a response that was interpreted as the hatred she probably gets on a daily basis (as female game devs get far more online hatred than male game devs). However, I do believe her interpretations were off the mark. While I sympathise with her response, I won't justify it and don't condone it. But we do have to bring a measure of understanding and compassion to the table, especially in cases where it's known for a fact that someone can get a disproportionate amount of online hate.

I'm going to say it right now: female game developers do not get more online hate, they just complain about it more. In fact, practically all the criticism laid on thick about this game, the ones expected to shoulder the responsibility for those failings are men. Even if women played a part in the teams that fail us, it's generally expected to be the man's fault. That's just how things go and its the other side of sexism that men have to deal with but usually never nag women about. Whenever a bad thing happens, it's a man's fault. Whenever backlash happens, it's not the woman's fault and you should empathize with her. Whenever something needs to be fixed, it's a man's problem to do the work. Whenever success is achieved and a woman is there, the woman will take an equal share of the credit even though she didn't put in an equal share of the work.

All of those observations, I assure you, any man will attest to but won't ever whine about.

[saerni.2584]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

No, we should call her sexist because that's exactly what she is. She tried to silence two separate people who had dissenting viewpoints because of their gender alone; adding on that before this event she apparently posted racially disparaging posts about people before that (see other front page thread thread) and that really starts to paint a clearer picture of this situation. This is not someone who should be defended; this is a situation where good people need to speak up and say "This is unacceptable". Because honestly, the sort of hate, vitriol and prejudice she has put on her twitter while representing Arenanet IS unacceptable for many people.

Arenanet owed its users an apology, and should be working to patch up their social media presence.

Quote me the sexist thing she said. If it’s mansplain you know why I disagree.

Same for racist comments. What did she say that was “racially disparaging?”

She targeted ann individual for abuse based on their gender.

I said quote. You just restated your conclusion.

[Ashen.2907]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.

No, we should call her sexist because that's exactly what she is. She tried to silence two separate people who had dissenting viewpoints because of their gender alone; adding on that before this event she apparently posted racially disparaging posts about people before that (see other front page thread thread) and that really starts to paint a clearer picture of this situation. This is not someone who should be defended; this is a situation where good people need to speak up and say "This is unacceptable". Because honestly, the sort of hate, vitriol and prejudice she has put on her twitter while representing Arenanet IS unacceptable for many people.

Arenanet owed its users an apology, and should be working to patch up their social media presence.

Quote me the sexist thing she said. If it’s mansplain you know why I disagree.

Same for racist comments. What did she say that was “racially disparaging?”

She targeted ann individual for abuse based on their gender.

I said quote. You just restated your conclusion.

I restated nothing.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Laivine.9308 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:She used sexism as a motivator for the streamers response. What can't you understand?

Mansplaining is sexism. What can't you understand?

Apparently accusing someone of sexism is sexist. Same as accusing someone of racism. This kind of shallow logic is unfortunately common these days.

Exhibit approximately one million: "Racism doesn't exist, but reverse racism is totally a problem."

Also I love all the men trying to explain to a woman what sexism is. If you can’t understand why something is sexist you shouldn’t just assume it isn’t and then accuse her of being “crazy.” That automatic dismissal is sexist, actually.

It’s like, take a step back and ask yourself “do I really know enough to comment intelligently on this?” If the answer is “not sure” then maybe you should be listening and not speaking.

Unfortunately, the answer to the question is going to be "yes" as far as those folks are concerned. Just like "I make the most basic suggestion possible, because you have clearly never considered this" dude, they believe that they do have the knowledge, and the special insight, to comment intelligently on it.

[Ardid.7203]

I'm just pointing that the "solution" (Super heated moods and hateful opinions) is way worse than the problem it is supposed to solve, AND DON'T SOLVE SAID PROBLEM.No matter how many coordinated people do it: Yelling at the screen will not fix the computer.

[What I consider a "pearl of wisdom" from a really good webcomic.](http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2600/fc02567.htm "What I consider a "pearl of wisdom" from a really good webcomic.")

[saerni.2584]

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Laivine.9308 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:She used sexism as a motivator for the streamers response. What can't you understand?

Mansplaining is sexism. What can't you understand?

Apparently accusing someone of sexism is sexist. Same as accusing someone of racism. This kind of shallow logic is unfortunately common these days.

Exhibit approximately one million: "Racism doesn't exist, but reverse racism is totally a problem."

Also I love all the men trying to explain to a woman what sexism is. If you can’t understand why something is sexist you shouldn’t just assume it isn’t and then accuse her of being “crazy.” That automatic dismissal is sexist, actually.

It’s like, take a step back and ask yourself “do I really know enough to comment intelligently on this?” If the answer is “not sure” then maybe you should be listening and not speaking.

Unfortunately, the answer to the question is going to be "yes" as far as those folks are concerned. Just like "I make the most basic suggestion possible, because you have clearly never considered this" dude, they believe that they

do

have the knowledge, and the special insight, to comment intelligently on it.

I’d like to add re: the whiteness as a social construct tweet by JP.

This is actually true. Italians and others were not considered “white” originally when they immigrated to the US. They became “white” over time. Many groups that today are considered white were not originally part of that group.

Even the US Supreme Court at one time struggled to define whiteness when Indian and Japanese people tried to claim they were white (and should be so treated by laws at the time). The decisions to exclude those groups were racist and not consistent with one another.

When we talk about the cultural construction of whiteness it is actually a documented historical phenomena.

[Huskyboy.1053]

@"saerni.2584" said:We don’t need studies because we don’t need to establish that women are statistically more likely to experience this than men. It makes no sense to require statistical data unless we need to figure out how often something happens.Do you not realize the irony of this statement? Without an actual dataset, you have no idea the probability of a woman experiencing certain behavior versus men. You've already conceded that female sexism towards males exists, so we agree that condescension towards the other sex is not a uniquely male phenomenon. How much effort have you put into finding instances of women being sexist towards men? You said that you have had conversations with women about their experiences with sexism; how many times have you sought out these conversations with men? Is it an equal amount? And what on earth makes you think your personal conversations are in any way statistically representative of the US's general population?

What we have are a large number of women reporting sexist behavior by men. Anecdotal or not we can’t just dismiss that these events occur until we get mass statistical data.I have not ever denied that women experience sexism; why did you say "dismiss that these events occur"? Do you have a source for this "large number"? I keep asking and you keep not sharing it. I don't know how large a "large number" is. From your post it sounds like around 10, which is not very many in a country of over 300 million people.We can coin a term like mansplain because it describes a known phenomena regardless of how common it is.Nobody is questioning your ability to coin that term, we are declaring it sexist. "We" are capable of sexism, no doubt.

Let’s break this down logically.

• Men can be sexist.True, as can women. Why do you keep singling out male behavior when you acknowledge that some women are also guilty of this same behavior? Do you believe that mansplaining is somehow worse than womansplaining?
• Sexist means treating people differently based on their sex, usually by mistreating one gender but not the other.That's exactly what using the word "mansplain" is doing; unless you're saying that women who use the word "mansplain" just as frequently use the word "womansplain" when referring to a condescending woman?
• When a man engages in explanatory behavior that is condescending towards women but does not treat men the same he is being sexist.Correct, just as women who use the word "mansplain" towards men are being sexist, unless they treat other women the exact same way.
• When people coined the term mansplain to describe this behavior they did so to describe this particular kind of sexist behavior by men.I agree.
• The term does not imply only men are sexist.Incorrect, unless there is a corroborating term like "womansplain" that is used equally as frequently towards women.
• The term does not imply that women don’t also engage in similar behavior.It certainly does. We have gender-specific terms because there is a (perceived) need to differentiate between male and female behaviors. If you wanted to be gender-neutral (i.e. not make any distinction between male and female behavior) then you would just say "explain." The phrase ["boys will be boys," as lamented in this HuffPo article](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-hicks/stop-saying-boys-will-be-boys_b_5979416.html ""boys will be boys," as lamented in this HuffPo article"), is gender-specific because it refers to a perceived societal bias towards excusing bad behavior from young boys. There are not corroborating "girls will be girls" or "kids will be kids" phrases because this is perceived to be an issue specific to boys. The same logic applies with "mansplaining."

I don’t feel we should derail a woman’s complaint about perceived sexism against her into calling her sexist because her term, accurately, indicates that some men engage in sexist behavior against women.Examining a complaint is not derailing. That's like saying, once a woman accuses a man of theft, that the detectives who search for evidence are "derailing" the investigation by conducting the investigation. We have no detectives since verbal rudeness isn't a crime short of making threats of violence, so it's up to people like you and me to examine the issue.Also her use of "mansplain" in-context was not a general statement about "men" in general, she was referring specifically to Deroir.

[hugo.4705]

Can someone post the link to the origin of the drama? Can't argue about something I don't know :)

[Ephemiel.5694]

I do expect Marjory, Kasmeer, Taimi, Rox and our PC if female to all gang up on Braham and Canach in the next LS thanks to this.

[Ashen.2907]

@saerni.2584 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@saerni.2584 said:

@Laivine.9308 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:She used sexism as a motivator for the streamers response. What can't you understand?

Mansplaining is sexism. What can't you understand?

Apparently accusing someone of sexism is sexist. Same as accusing someone of racism. This kind of shallow logic is unfortunately common these days.

Exhibit approximately one million: "Racism doesn't exist, but reverse racism is totally a problem."

Also I love all the men trying to explain to a woman what sexism is. If you can’t understand why something is sexist you shouldn’t just assume it isn’t and then accuse her of being “crazy.” That automatic dismissal is sexist, actually.

It’s like, take a step back and ask yourself “do I really know enough to comment intelligently on this?” If the answer is “not sure” then maybe you should be listening and not speaking.

Unfortunately, the answer to the question is going to be "yes" as far as those folks are concerned. Just like "I make the most basic suggestion possible, because you have clearly never considered this" dude, they believe that they

do

have the knowledge, and the special insight, to comment intelligently on it.

I’d like to add re: the whiteness as a social construct tweet by JP.

This is actually true. Italians and others were not considered “white” originally when they immigrated to the US. They became “white” over time. Many groups that today are considered white were not originally part of that group.

Even the US Supreme Court at one time struggled to define whiteness when Indian and Japanese people tried to claim they were white (and should be so treated by laws at the time). The decisions to exclude those groups were racist and not consistent with one another.

When we talk about the cultural construction of whiteness it is actually a documented historical phenomena.

Agreed.

A discussion about the origin of modern social constructs is not inherently racist.

[Ash.5274]

So let me get this straight: some time ago a prominent content creator and Anet partner lost his partnership for being rude to devs, yet here we have an Anet dev being rude (to put it mildly) to not one but three current members of the partner programme (Deroir, Inks, Jebro), and given the lack of response from Anet that's perfectly okay. How exactly is that a partnership? People like Deroir, Inks and Jebro are not merely 'rando ***hats' who play GW2, they actively encourage others to buy and play it too. And this is how you treat them? Really?

[otto.5684]

@Fluffball.8307 said:Man you guys must be super bored to have hundreds of posts about a twitter message. Go watch a soap opera, and let these forums to be less ridiculous.

This is a soap opera. I even came with my popcorn :#

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@otto.5684 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:Man you guys must be super bored to have hundreds of posts about a

twitter

message. Go watch a soap opera, and let these forums to be less ridiculous.

This is a soap opera. I even came with my popcorn :#

I'm pretty sure that this means war.

[NapalmDest.1786]

Would be nice for ANET to have a formal response to this. Gamers shouldn't be rude to the devs and the devs shouldn't be rude to the gamers.

Her responses were insane.....

[saerni.2584]

Thanks for the detailed reply @Huskyboy.1053

I’ll respond more later but I think the core of our disagreement lies with the fact that I think merely identifying the subset of behavior particular to men is valuable. Women do experience sexism and I do believe, without a study in front of me, with negative consequences that we shouldn’t ignore just because men also experience sexism. We can address both. Women can identify mansplaining and men can identify sexism they experience. It’s an option for men to speak up about sexism against them. We just shouldn’t complain about a lack of paternity leave, for example, to drown out women asking for better maternity leave.

Yes, we could use womansplain (if women were targeting condescending remarks at men and not men) but that’s not the context here. Here we are dealing with a woman and a man. So we can use mansplain. It’s an easy shorthand for “possibly sexist explanatory condescension” which, admittedly, does have a certain enjoyable ring—but mansplain is easier to say lol.

[alaskasnowgirl.6047]

@Ephemiel.5694 said:I do expect Marjory, Kasmeer, Taimi, Rox and our PC if female to all gang up on Braham and Canach in the next LS thanks to this.

Well, we did have to

kill Balthy for his toxic masculinity ;)

 

[thruine.8510]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@"thruine.8510" said:But fans on the internet... god, I'm so sick of this self righteous crap of mudslinging that goes on then crying about when someone says something to hurt their feelings. Its starting to get pathetic.And it's just as sickening, self-righteous and pathetic if the mudslinging comes from the other side of the fence.

Thanks for fixing that. But this fence, care to explain? Because what I see is lots of fans (and we see that its the same for fans of games such as GW2) throw crap of various degrees then cry when they get a little push back. While the guy (I'm assuming) wasn't like a lot of what we see on the internet, he did seem to sound like he was explaining something to someone lacking such basic knowledge of writing within MMOs. Are people running back through his feed? Probably. There's nothing that happens these days where everyone doesn't take some side. I don't even mean to be on a side except as those that are so tired of these types of reactions. Look at all the victims she created with that comment. I mean, now its going to affect someone's game play. Now its just another example of ArenaNet's problems. Its just a long list of folks traumatized by this one series of post. I mean if you really believe that the internet is a cesspool because of all the developers' (creatives of all types, game developers, move directors, actors, etc.) constant barrage against fans, chasing them throughout social media, then I guess that's the way you see it. For me, I guess I'm on the other side of that fence. Whatever it is these "fans" want, my guess is they are more likely to get even this little bit of contact cut off. And frankly, I'm not sure there's any value with any company engaging with fans. Not as long as respect is a one way street. This has no affect on any of us except the original poster.. And even there it doesn't look like that big of a wound.