EDIT: ANET staff publicly representing company should be held to their own standards

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Ambush.9420 said:

@"Feithlinn.9284" said:

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

As an economist, I'd urge you to learn some basic statistical analysis before making such claims.

You seem to have a poor understanding of how the specific data (regarding the 'wage gap') is actually gathered.

The site you linked looks blindly at the entire population of women, and compares them (again blindly) to the entire population of men.

It doesn't take into account extremely important factors such as the type of job , the hours worked, time taken off, etc.

Once you account for these, the wage gap diminishes, and in fact.. recent findings suggest women actually earn MORE for the same job once these factors are equated for.

Essentially, women are making less as a whole because they choose jobs that make less, they are generally worse at negotiating, and they take much more time off than the average man.

Again, once you account for these factors.. the wage gap diminishes entirely (sometimes even favouring the women).

Now, a good discussion would be WHY are women choosing worse paying jobs? Why are men more interested in higher paying jobs such as computer science , engineering and mathematics? Some say it's biology, others say it's due to societal pressures.

You can look to the Scandinavian countries for an answer, which are without argument the most egalitarian countries in the world.. what do we find when we look there? There is actually an even BIGGER divide between men and women in terms of their career choices. The data is extremely clear on that.

You can conclude that when left to their own devices, men and women make different life choices.. careers being no different. That is an extremely large part of why blindly comparing men and women (in terms of earnings) is completely ridiculous from a statistical standpoint.

Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

[DedTreeJig.3245]

@thruine.8510 said:Opinion of what though? Her work? Gee, how could that ever be taken the wrong way? At no point did she seem to be stuck and need assistance. Now if he had worded it so it was more of I wish we could have this because then it lead to this no one would have found reason for complaint. But disagreeing and explaining how better it would be if done this way is never ever going to end well. If he had done that, she might have gone into why they can't do that if she thought he lacked the knowledge of the limitations she works within. But it seems the assumption was she was the one lacking knowledge.

You seem to suggest that it was all his fault, that her reaction was appropriate and reasonable. Was that your intention?

[Blocki.4931]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ambush.9420 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

As an economist, I'd urge you to learn some basic statistical analysis before making such claims.

You seem to have a poor understanding of how the specific data (regarding the 'wage gap') is actually gathered.

The site you linked looks blindly at the entire population of women, and compares them (again blindly) to the entire population of men.

It doesn't take into account extremely important factors such as the type of job , the hours worked, time taken off, etc.

Once you account for these, the wage gap diminishes, and in fact.. recent findings suggest women actually earn MORE for the same job once these factors are equated for.

Essentially, women are making less as a whole because they choose jobs that make less, they are generally worse at negotiating, and they take much more time off than the average man.

Again, once you account for these factors.. the wage gap diminishes entirely (sometimes even favouring the women).

Now, a good discussion would be WHY are women choosing worse paying jobs? Why are men more interested in higher paying jobs such as computer science , engineering and mathematics? Some say it's biology, others say it's due to societal pressures.

You can look to the Scandinavian countries for an answer, which are without argument the most egalitarian countries in the world.. what do we find when we look there? There is actually an even BIGGER divide between men and women in terms of their career choices. The data is extremely clear on that.

You can conclude that when left to their own devices, men and women make different life choices.. careers being no different. That is an extremely large part of why blindly comparing men and women (in terms of earnings) is completely ridiculous from a statistical standpoint.

Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

Seems like you're defeated because your circular logic doesn't work anymore?

The implication that different life choices are a "fault" is made by you. The wage gap still doesn't exist and it doesn't have anything to do with privilege even if it did. It's understandable that you can get really hooked on that idea, that it's some huge plan to keep women down. This is exactly how conspiracy theories work. It gives you an adrenaline and dopamine boost to realize that there are actually skeletons inside all of us, but it's really important to lose that "I am oppressed" mindset, because that is what actually oppresses you in the end. What keeps you down.

You have to Break. The. Conditioning.

:triumph:

In all seriousness though. It's always easier to believe in something like this because it's easier to swallow, it sounds more appetizing because it shifts "blame". In reality there is no blame to place and no guilt to trip somebody over. It's just harsh and cold late stage capitalism that doesn't give a damn about you or anybody else in the world as long as the money keeps rolling

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Ambush.9420]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

I'm simply giving you the facts , once you analyze the actual statistical data.. you do not find a wage gap. It is simply not there.

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Ambush.9420 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

Yeap most women and not white people choose worse paying jobs because they make different life choices.Its their fault. There is no wage gap.I get it. I am not going to ruin your male privelage , don't worry.

I'm simply giving you the facts , once you analyze the actual statistical data.. you do not find a wage gap. It is simply not there.I am neither white nor male.. just for your information ;).

Well I'm providing you facts that support that the wage gap is a real thing. It is simply there.

Fyi I am white male. What does have to do with anything?

[NoiseRen.2403]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

Most women historically prefer family over career. The horror.When my daugther was born and we were deciding who will take a leave from work for a year my wifes answer was:"of course it has to be mother, who in the right mind will leave a newborn with a clueless male?". Any you know, she's right.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

Can you people please shut up about the wage gap

JP just got canned

[Ambush.9420]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

Well I'm providing you facts that support that the wage gap is a real thing. It is simply there.

Fyi I am white male. What does have to do with anything?

You have yet to provide any facts.. you just linked forbes and some other site. Can you find peer reviewed statistical data that actually proves your point? There's a reason no serious economist believes in the wage gap.

You are the one who brought race and gender up, not me.

[Feithlinn.9284]

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

Most women historically prefer family over career. The horror.When my daugther was born and we were deciding who will take a leave from work for a year my wifes answer was:"of course it has to be mother, who in the right mind will leave a newborn with a clueless male?". Any you know, she's right.

She's right because you accept that you are a clueless male. Irrelevant with the whole other discussion.

[Holykitten.3064]

Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

It's over guys <3

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

[Tolmos.8395]

Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

What's everyone having for dinner? =D

[Blocki.4931]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

It's over guys <3

Top Ten Anime Betrayals

I legitimately screamed. That's one damn clear message

[NoiseRen.2403]

@Tolmos.8395 said:Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

What's everyone having for dinner? =D

Nah. I'm goin to sleep. 1 A.M. here.

[Tolmos.8395]

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:Soooo looks like the situation has been resolved. We have two choices: continue fighting amongst each other, or answer the question...

What's everyone having for dinner? =D

Nah. I'm goin to sleep. 1 A.M. here.

Holy time difference Batman!

[otto.5684]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

[Tolmos.8395]

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:

Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

It's over guys <3

That's the clearest message I've ever seen on something like this. "Mo" doesn't hold back.

Now, before the pitchforks go away, lets talk about how someone made a thread about killing Taimi!

[NoiseRen.2403]

@otto.5684 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

With this logic if i were a CEO all my employees would be women so i could pay less. I somehow don't see it.

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on....

[Blocki.4931]

@otto.5684 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

It literally says they are based on their decision to ask for a raise, or try to get it.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I hate that this is what my favorite games forum has come to. Sadly anet cant even with good conscience close the thread because it was their own employees fault.

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

This is flat out wrong. All valid statistics and samples indicate that the median male in most jobs make more than the median female. Also, sampling is done based on median and NOT mean to specifically prevent data from being skewed by outliers (high or low). If you do not understanding this then maybe you should not comment on any statistics.

And a statement like this: "If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)," supports the gender pay is result of gender inequality. It basically says different genders are not paid based on production but based on their gender.

It literally says they are based on their decision to ask for a raise, or try to get it.

Which literally means that men are more able to get a raise and women are not. You can not describe any better the words -gender inequality- .

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@NoiseRen.2403 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@alaskasnowgirl.6047 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters.

It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we

definitely

don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it.

My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities.

If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post.

Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there.

ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...…..

Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too."

Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think..

Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks!

I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine.

So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy.

Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself.As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next.

That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop.

If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior.

Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped.

Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots.

They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications).

Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596

Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry.Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA.

https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/

Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles.

There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic.

If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise)

I'm sorry you keep supporting that for example 5.2% of S&P 500 CEO’s are women because women make different life choices. Who I am to disagree?If the high earners are typically men, then removing them from the analysis removes an important part of the story. The mean calculation takes these high earners into account, and therefore provides a clearer picture of the gender pay gap. You can't just ignore it or pretend that women do not like high paying jobs. I am sorry.

I don't think he's defending it, more that he's trying to demonstrate that this difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning, rather than "oppression" from the male gender.Which is honestly, what real feminism is about: Trying to even the odds. The whole "blaming it on the other gender" is quite new, and counter-productive most of the time.

So wage gap is a real thing now? I totally disagree that the difference of pay grade is mostly due to self-conditioning.I strongly believe that society pressures women to occupy low paying roles regardless of ability. So even if men and women are equally paid, men in society are better off because society doesnt coerce them into adopting titles with less value.Sexual harrassment and discrimination also keeps women out of high paying jobs. Also, unpaid reproductive labor reduces career potential when there are not laws to protect maternity leave and parenthood discrimination. And the list goes on....

Hold on, I'm not the same guy, never denied it was a reality.But you're basically saying this is a conditioning as well right here. I think we all agree on what needs to be done.And the fact is less and less "men" are abusing that sort of power. And for those who do, they better not get caught and they're getting a storm on their way (rightfully so).For all the rest of us who are fully on board with feminism (the non radical one) we all WANT everyone to be equally paid and have equal chances at everything.