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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

Ftp doesn't provide access to the forums. It's not surprising that those 1-post accounts posting only on this thread actually put some money to buy the game in order to do it. Pushing their agenda with whatever means possible.

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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account"Official forum posting unavailable"

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/115015898508-Guild-Wars-2-Free-Account-Features-

"Forum Posting Access: No"

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Shortly before the Twitter debacle, Deroir had publicly stated in a video/stream, that he admired JP's work. With that in mind, and the fact that English is not his first language, I do not believe Deroir's intent was to make any sexist commentary what-so-ever. At worst, he may be guilty of clumsy conversation starting - with someone he admired.

I once met Prof Brian Cox...I knew he had a child. I tried to start a conversation based around children because that was the only thing I felt reasonably competent to discuss with a man of such intellect. It was clumsy because I was star struck and nervous. I can empathise completely with Deroir based on my own experience meeting a 'hero' of sorts.

JP did not have that context - which is so important to the bigger picture. Had JP seen that video clip, I do think that conversation may have gone a very different way.

It is very sad to see that the media chooses to ignore the positives. Deroir is not the villain in the piece. Neither are Anet, or JP or PF. It is just one massive misunderstanding that spiralled out of control and had terrible consequences.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

Ftp doesn't provide access to the forums. It's not surprising that those 1-post accounts posting only on this thread actually put some money to buy the game in order to do it. Pushing their agenda with whatever means possible.

Most gamers think -1 posters are employees.. lol Plus on a more serious note, many that quit and say so publically are approached to give up their login info, some prolly do..? I have heard about it happening on Reddit.

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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

Ftp doesn't provide access to the forums. It's not surprising that those 1-post accounts posting only on this thread actually put some money to buy the game in order to do it. Pushing their agenda with whatever means possible.

Most gamers think -1 posters are employees.. lol

sometimes they are, or hired by the devs.keyword is sometimes

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Those "crisis" were parts of decisions by the Arenanet team, discussed by the developers at length, even involving higher ups maybe?

You mean like how firing them was the decision of MO, a higher-up (the CEO if I'm not mistaken)?

This thread got over 2.7k responses across 67 pages in a week. JP and PF were fired on page 1. There's also, now, numerous "journalists" spinning the story to completely destroy ANET's reputation, in the complete vacuum enforced by MO in his refusal to communicate. It would appear that MO's decision resulted in a crisis, in which we are currently engaged—and this is hardly his first. So when do the knives come out for him? Or does his being a "higher-up" justify anything he might do?

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@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

Ftp doesn't provide access to the forums. It's not surprising that those 1-post accounts posting only on this thread actually put some money to buy the game in order to do it. Pushing their agenda with whatever means possible.

Most gamers think -1 posters are employees.. lol

sometimes they are, or hired by the devs.keyword is sometimes

Oh good night.. now I have heard everything.. oh what a tangled web we weave..

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@Soa Cirri.6012 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Those "crisis" were parts of decisions by the Arenanet team, discussed by the developers at length, even involving higher ups maybe?

You mean like how firing them was the decision of MO, a higher-up (the CEO if I'm not mistaken)?

This thread got over 2.7k responses across 67 pages in a week. JP and PF were fired on page 1. There's also, now, numerous "journalists" spinning the story to completely destroy ANET's reputation, in the complete vacuum enforced by MO in his refusal to communicate. It would appear that MO's decision resulted in a crisis, in which we are currently engaged—and this is hardly his first. So when do the knives come out for him? Or does his being a "higher-up" justify anything he might do?

Like the Spyware, I can still smell the torches burning over it, I took a big step back myself over it.

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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

You have to buy the game to get to the forums right?

Or download ftp?

Ftp doesn't provide access to the forums. It's not surprising that those 1-post accounts posting only on this thread actually put some money to buy the game in order to do it. Pushing their agenda with whatever means possible.

Most gamers think -1 posters are employees.. lol

sometimes they are, or hired by the devs.keyword is sometimes

Oh good night.. now I have heard everything.. oh what a tangled web we weave..Well a pretty famous example is Driver 3, where the publishers hired a company to make the game look better on forums, they were caught and even traced back to the company.Its a rare occurrence that happens much of the time in corrupt workplaces.

I highly doubt that is the case here.

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@Soa Cirri.6012 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Those "crisis" were parts of decisions by the Arenanet team, discussed by the developers at length, even involving higher ups maybe?

You mean like how firing them was the decision of MO, a higher-up (the CEO if I'm not mistaken)?

I was talking about the previous "crisis" you described, the key difference between them and this one (if you can call this a crisis) is that the previous ones were a team decision that was changed (or not). We don't know how many people were fired behind the scenes for causing the other crisis.

I don't think there is anyone above MO in the company :) Plus it wasn't his decision that caused this, it was someone's attack on the community and that was settled.

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Ahh well, maybe a little prose, seems appropriate..

“If we shadows have offended,Think but this, and all is mended,That you have but slumbered hereWhile these visions did appear.And this weak and idle theme,No more yielding but a dream,Gentles, do not reprehend:If you pardon, we will mend:And, as I am an honest Puck,If we have unearned luckNow to 'scape the serpent's tongue,We will make amends ere long;Else the Puck a liar call;So, good night unto you all.Give me your hands, if we be friends,And Robin shall restore amends.”

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:I was talking about the previous "crisis" you described, the key difference between them and this oneYou describe it as "key." But whether a crisis originated from an individual or a committee is immaterial to its quality. If the raid team got together and conspired to attack people on twitter, would that be qualitatively less deserving of outrage?(if you can call this a crisis)Okay, now we're literally getting into semantics. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no?

Three possible reasons:1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly.2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed

4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all.

If 71 pages is not enough, what is?

this thread can be safely locked at this point. Nothing new is being presented and it is not really productive at this point. Yes this is my opinion but this is just going around in circles at this point.

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@Dreadshow.9320 said:

@Harper.4173 said:And that's where people are wrong. Those titles might have meant something remotely positive maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Today as far as I see it they're a massive red flag. And by that I mean that statistically speaking - you have very good odds of finding someone who's completely unreasonable label themselves as such. Better odds than finding a decent human being.Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm biased but as far as I've seen it - it seems to be the case. I guess all the normal people are more quiet and don't need to make everything into their personal crusade?

Yes, that does sound biased.

My bias keeps me nice and safe.

Bias and stereotype are defensive mechanisms - people have them in order to avoid things that are unpleasant.I don't really understand why they're seen as bad - when most of the times they are going to keep you safe.

I really don't understand the hate on stereotypes given the alternative is one monotype. And if Roger Watters and Pink Floyd thought us anything is that we don't want one monotype.

It's not about hating people for being different - it's about recognizing that people who are different in certain ways are more likely to behave in some way or another. Using this you can predict their possible behavior easily at a glance and save yourself a lot of trouble and unpleasant interaction. It might not be something that's relevant in your part of the world but it certainly is where I'm from.I'd look forward to seeing "unprejudiced" people having a good time with some of the people around where I live.

Also I don't know how some entertainers are of any relevance when it comes to figuring out what is good and what isn't. I do hope you don't live your life following the advice of such individuals, seeing how every month or so we find out the absolute wrecked state of the lives they live through some suicide, overdose or other unfortunate event.

All I'm saying is if we did not have Stereotypes we would all be the same droning about doing the exact samething their would be only one type of humans... The movie 1984 comes to mind. That world would be horrible to live in if you ask me.

I think you've missed my point entirely.

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@Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

Their attacks on the community were unacceptable
@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:
we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees

I completely missed that post. LMKO

I'll admit to being disrespectful to both JP and MO, although I have certainly seen far more severe disrespect aimed at JP by certain Sargonites bandying on about "SJW"s in the thread.

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@"Orimidu.9604" said:I haven't been following this thread, but I wanted to pop in and thank Samantha Wallschlaeger and all of the ANet team she listed and spoke highly about. I recently discovered a thread on the reddit page highlighting her series of tweets and I'm absolutely thrilled that one of my favorite games of all time has such a diverse, outspoken, transparent, and skillful staff behind the wheels. Shame on those "gaming journalism" websites that get it so wrong time after time. All it takes to see the truth is to play the game and follow the staff! You guys really practice what you preach and the world needs a lot more of that these days.

The gaming websites didnt get it wrong, they wanted to say what they said, they deliberately sided with her and knew the truth-- this is how they avoided all the things that would have made her sound ridiculous "nono don't put that in, we need to make her sound like a victim, yeaaah there we go, she is a martyr for females!". Spurring up trouble means more to talk about which means more controversies and more money for their pockets. So yes you are correct to say "gaming journalism".

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@Soa Cirri.6012 said:

Their attacks on the community were unacceptable
@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:
we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees

I completely missed that post. LMKO

I'll admit to being disrespectful to both JP and MO, although I have certainly seen far more severe disrespect aimed at JP by certain Sargonites bandying on about "kitten"s in the thread.

We all have our moments. I learned something new. I now know what LMKO means :)

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@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Thank you Mike. ArenaNet have always been on my list of video game company's that I love for the way they interact with the community it's a delicate ecosystem and I when I have to quite a game because the company regards it's player base with giggling contempt.

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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@"Zaklex.6308" said:I'm going to say this again, and I'll keep repeating it. It's high time we learn to separate the professional life from the personal life(and I DO NOT care if you list your employer on your personal social media, it's still your personal social media), across the board. Answer me this, why is it so hard for the majority of people to understand that employees are only representing their employer when on the clock and getting paid? I don't know about most people, but I do not bring my job home with me, once I clock out, that's it, it's out of mind, but then the majority of people can't turn their brains on and off like that either, so I guess I answered my own question.

I don't understand how you can't see the obvious flaws in this thinking. If you, for example, work for a company and then (from your social media account where you choose to actively advertise your employment at said company) decide you're going to speak ill of that company and/or its customers.. I just don't understand how you expect there to be no repercussions to those actions.. particularly in the land of at-will employment.

And I'm not talking about whistleblowing, I'm just referring to examples of smack-talk and generally just being an awful jerk. Yes, you can go onto your social media account and post
"LOL at the idiotic people who are stupid enough to waste money eating at the restaurant I work at, home of the worst tasting, most overpriced food in history"
, but you are kidding yourself if you think your manager isn't going to want to have words with you on your next shift.

Your expectation of some sort of magical separation and protections between the various worlds in your life is just bizarre.Let's take it a step further: if I could be completely free of consequences for what I say on personal public social media, I could take money from a competitor to badmouth my employer constantly and viciously, and my employer could only grin and bear it.

I know this is an exaggeration, but it does prove that you have to draw a line somewhere. And what makes more sense than to draw the line where the actual hurting of an employer starts?

Actually you couldn't, at least not in most states in the U.S....taking money from a competitor for any reason can falls under the business espionage act, or any number of laws that deal with slander and libel if the badmouthing isn't true...your argument is null and void. You draw the line at common sense and realize that the vast majority of people on their own time are not going to be talking about their employer/employment with complete strangers, let alone friends.

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@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Cerethon.8250" said:She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression.

Newsflash, this happens to literally everyone.Don't believe it ? Just go look at any "balance thread" where people state the team is inept and doesn't know what they are doing. Gender has nothing to do with people telling others how to do their job.

No it actually doesn't. I saw a story the other day about a supervisor who pretended to be a female staff member he supervises for 2 weeks in dealing with customers (with her full consent). He says the difference was like night and day in terms of how customers treated him when he was himself and when they thought he was the female employee. I wish I'd saved the link but it occurred just last year.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle.

Yes of course 1 side is right and the other is full of blow ins.................

@Edge.4180 said:And every day gamers tell developers how to do their job, regardless of gender on either side. This sort of thing has been going on for as long as we've had forums where gamers could communicate with developers, and gender has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Suggest you try and listen more to the feedback of female devs with more of an open mind. You are making assumptions purely on the anecdotal evidence of what you observe which is a fraction of what actually goes on.

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I'm not actually going to talk about sexism or whatever in here because even just 5 pages of this thread makes it clear it'd be like talking to a brick wall but I definitely will say, firing someone for what was, at absolute worst, a crass response to a user is an insane overreaction. And that is the absolute worst that any could attribute to what JP said (and I would disagree with even that characterization).

This is incredibly disappointing that two devs who've done such good work were sacrificed to the twitter mob when the most that would've been justified would've been a talking to about swearing about the userbase after a conversation on the game itself. Ugh, just ugh.

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