GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Bosco.2680]

Never would've seen this coming, but I'm happy it did. Revolting lack of respect and professionalism.

[DaShi.1368]

@Sylv.5324 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.Her response should have been to ignore or block. As soon as the profanity came out, there wasn't much Anet could do other than drop her.

I agree, it could have been handled better. I just don't agree with Anet's or many of the player's reaction.

[Azrielvon.7836]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

[xarallei.4279]

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

shrugs I read the whole thing (and just went back to reread). I don't agree. It was criticism, sure. But it was valid criticism and she really shouldn't have taken it so personally. And as has been said before, even if he was totally wrong and she disagreed with him that does not make her response suddenly okay. You don't respond that way to customers.

[DaShi.1368]

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both the recipient and receiver are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

No, Derior wasn't owed shit. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

[Crinn.7864]

@"xarallei.4279" said:

Okay, I don't see that as a backhand. She says the genre is the fault point here but the partner says "perhaps it's just your game"? That's exactly right. SWTOR is the anti-thesis to her observation.

Yup. I keep seeing people try to bash Deroir and state how doing what he asks is impossible and he doesn't know what he's talking about. They specifically point to the genre and say it can't be done with MMOs....but, well SWTOR did it, so it's obviously not so impossible as they think it is. Now maybe there is something regarding the Living Story in particular that makes it not work? Who knows, but instead of biting the head off of player she could have just answered in a civil manner. Instead she was rude and dismissive. That kind of behavior is simply not acceptable. She is an Arenanet employee in a public setting talking to a customer. When interacting with customers some thought must be put into your responses.

SW:TOR had a 200million dollar development budget (this number doesn't include marketing) just for the vanilla game, and has gone down in video game history as the single most costly video game ever produced. (The second most expensive game to produce is GTA V at 137 million)

What SW:TOR did isn't really relevant for studios that have sane budgets. Price's original comment (before she exploded) was more or less on point with the limitations of game writing.

[Azrielvon.7836]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both the recipient and receiver are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

Well, Derior explained why he didn't feel invested. Isn't that a good thing? If someone told me something as vague as 'I don't feel invested', I wouldn't know which direction to proceed. Knowing why something happened helps you solve an issue better, no?

[Ashen.2907]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both the recipient and receiver are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

The sort of comment you describe is not harrassment.

[Sylv.5324]

@"Azrielvon.7836" said:

3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

I'm pretty sure that's not what got her fired so much as her profanity toward Deroir. There are quite a few cases where sexism, racism, etc, are actual problems (this was clearly not) but she could have articulated how she nonetheless felt in a less hostile manner. ('I feel that you are mansplaining so I'd like to refrain from further discussion,' would have probably generated less ire than calling him an asshole rando.)

[Dreadshow.9320]

@Tasida.4085 said:

@"Kosze.3169" said:I think this is all kitten. She doesn't represent the whole game. And I really hope this is just a glass Anet placed on this situation and didn't actually fire her. Yeah, maybe she didn't answer well on her personal twitter.You know who else doesn't? The president of the U.S.A. go fire him.Also, her job here is to write plot on the game, not PR, not customer service, not graphic design, not gaming mechanics. To all of you saying "She's not doing her job correctly" don't be fools. Again, personal Twitter.

LOL well said.

I hope for your sakes he does get fire.

[Azrielvon.7836]

@Sylv.5324 said:

@"Azrielvon.7836" said:

3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

I'm pretty sure that's not what got her fired so much as her profanity toward Deroir. There are quite a few cases where sexism, racism, etc, are actual problems (this was clearly not) but she could have articulated how she nonetheless felt in a less hostile manner. ('I feel that you are mansplaining so I'd like to refrain from further discussion,' would have probably generated less ire than calling him an kitten rando.)

Well, yea, guess you're right but usually pulling that out leads to nasty 'discussions' which results in getting fired. LOL

[DaShi.1368]

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both the recipient and receiver are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

Well, Derior explained why he didn't feel invested. Isn't that a good thing? If someone told me something as vague as 'I don't feel invested', I wouldn't know which direction to proceed. Knowing why something happened helps you solve an issue better, no?

He didn't say that he didn't feel invested. He said "then perhaps players would be more invested." There are a lot of ways to say this. But the way he did was specifically condescending and insulting. He didn't even offer anything insightful that someone at day one of the job wouldn't know.

[Alfador.7649]

@Kosze.3169 said:

@Alfador.7649 said:

@Tasida.4085 said:

@Kosze.3169 said:I think this is all kitten. She doesn't represent the whole game. And I really hope this is just a glass Anet placed on this situation and didn't actually fire her. Yeah, maybe she didn't answer well on her personal twitter.You know who else doesn't? The president of the U.S.A. go fire him.Also, her job here is to write plot on the game, not PR, not customer service, not graphic design, not gaming mechanics. To all of you saying "She's not doing her job correctly" don't be fools. Again, personal Twitter.

LOL well said.

Because lying to the player-base will go over so well when they inevitably get caught...

This isn't just a case of someone holding an undesirable opinion and being fired for it. This is a case of extreme toxicity, and direct, unabashed hostility towards customers. Even if I agreed with her premise, I'd be absolutely appalled by her behavior in this latest incident. It's also not just one incident. It's a pattern, and a very extreme one over a long period of time.

She was willing to list her employer on her personal twitter, then with the name of that employer right there,

in the context of a GW2 conversation nonetheless

, she said some extremely caustic things to someone who, quite frankly whether you agree with them or not, did not deserve that level of hostility. On more than one occasion she leveled personal attacks on customers. The only question is why it took so long. If someone like this worked for me, even if I 100% agreed with them, I'd want them out as soon as I could get them out.

As for the president... Yes I'd love to see him get fired, were it only so easy. It is neither so easy nor is it remotely related to this conversation so I'm not sure why it's even being brought up.

You have both valid points. I don't know the extent of the problem nor the older ones. Didn't know this was a pattern of conduct either. But what must be done here first, instead of firing, should be a letter of apology from the Dev, or at least the option to say "sorry won't do this again" and maybe that path will be taken or not.Now, maybe they got yelled at and responded badly and then got fired, we'll never know.I still firmly believe that if this was done on her personal twitter it shouldn't be such a huge issue, not like the whole kitten game balances from this. Also It didn't seem such a huge attack from either party involved, just a stupid discussion.

I readily admit that I'm not a mind-reader, but I can tell you based on the aforementioned history that there was no way on earth a sincere apology would ever have been forthcoming with this person. There were multiple personal attacks, from calling customers "Rando asshats" to completely unwarranted accusations of sexism and racism both past and present. This person is also someone who disingenuously insisted that people leveling friendly and completely civil criticism were elements of what amounts to a sexist persecution. I've worked with people like that before. It is unpleasant to say the least.

She can insist her twitter is "personal" all she wants but when she chooses to both call out her employment on it and to actively discuss her official, professional activities, that doesn't really fly. I don't hide my identity or my profession but there is a reason I don't put my professional affiliation on my twitter or talk about my work. If I were inclined to be snide I'd just call it basic professionalism and leave it at that, but the simple fact of the matter is it is entirely reasonable for people to take an employee of a company abusing them in a professional capacity as a mark against the company, and no amount of "personal" notation on the interaction unrings that bell. It's like when someone says "all due respect" and then immediately proceeds to be disrespectful. The qualifier means nothing if the actions contradict it.

[xarallei.4279]

@Crinn.7864 said:

SW:TOR had a 200million dollar development budget (this number doesn't include marketing) just for the vanilla game, and has gone down in video game history as the single most costly video game ever produced. (The second most expensive game to produce is GTA V at 137 million)

We don't know the break down of costs for SWTOR. Does adding extra branching story lead to extra costs? Probably. How much? Who knows? Maybe there is a great reason why this system would just not work in GW2. Fine. But why not explain that? And again, just the mere existence of SWTOR proves that it is possible within the genre.

[Azrielvon.7836]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

I believe Derior's comment is that of an opinion as a fellow player and content creator. It is called constructive criticism. As a professional, this happens almost everyday, clients make weird demands or say things that may not be technically possible. So what do you do if you encounter a situation like this?

1. Explain why certain things can't be done (through technical constraints, adhering to company's policy/decision etcetc)
2. Accept the feedback, say that you'll discuss it with your team/supervisor (you may or may not do it, but personally, I feel that it is good to bring up any valid points)
3. Pull the gender/race/privilege card

Method 1 would yield a civil discussion if both the recipient and receiver are capable of intellectual discourse. This provides an opportunity to brainstorm and see what consumers actually want

Method 2 absolves yourself from responsibility, does not create discussion but a tactful and civil way to 'end' further discussion

Method 3 gets you fired.

Regarding privacy, as I mentioned, once you attached your job title, discuss about your job on a public platform, privacy goes out the window.

No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

Well, Derior explained why he didn't feel invested. Isn't that a good thing? If someone told me something as vague as 'I don't feel invested', I wouldn't know which direction to proceed. Knowing why something happened helps you solve an issue better, no?

He didn't say that he didn't feel invested. He said "then perhaps players would be more invested." There are a lot of ways to say this. But the way he did was specifically condescending and insulting. He didn't even offer anything insightful that someone at day one of the job wouldn't know.

It is only mildly condescending (I think it is a stretch to even call that statement condescending) if you look at that 1 statement alone and not the whole context. You can't cherry pick like this without context.

[CorneredLamp.7809]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Mike O Brien.4613 said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

Mo. Thank you for your response. I do hope you reconsider and look to this whole situation as learning opportunity. I agree that they weren't exactly respectful to certain fans. But this was done through their private accounts as private people. Perhaps a reminder that their social presence can impact the company would have been more appropriate. And an apology would probably help to smooth things over, if the fans involved were genuinely sincere in their interactions. On the fan side, they could use a reminder that GW2 staff are real people and aren't there for their pleasure. Private accounts are private, even if the user discusses topics related to their careers. Harassment of your staff by customers should be treated just as seriously, if not more so.

Anyway, I've really appreciated what both Jessica's and Peter's contributions to GW2 and will miss their presence.

I agree, private accounts should remain private, however, once you attach your job title, discuss your job and not limiting it to your own selected audience, you're no longer private, people will perceive you as a professional.

Actually, further reading Derior's full response, he was being extremely condescending. She kindly told him to kitten off and he demanded more of her time.

I'm sorry, I fail to see where Derior is condescending. May I request you to point that out for me?

Sure. He implied that players weren't invested in their characters because of her writing. Whether that's the case or not doesn't matter. You don't go to a writers private twitter account and tell them that they sucked and expect them to smile at you for it. Which is exactly what he did. Ugh, I get the creeps just thinking about what he did.

Ugh you get the creeps? Okay well trolled. I laughed.

[Crinn.7864]

@xarallei.4279 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

SW:TOR had a 200million dollar development budget (this number doesn't include marketing) just for the vanilla game, and has gone down in video game history as the single most costly video game ever produced. (The second most expensive game to produce is GTA V at 137 million)

We don't know the break down of costs for SWTOR. Does adding extra branching story lead to extra costs? Probably. How much? Who knows? Maybe there is a great reason why this system would just not work in GW2. Fine. But why not explain that? And again, just the mere existence of SWTOR proves that it is possible within the genre.

We do actually know that the insane costs where because of the branching arcs because the devs themselves admitted it. The cost of the branching arcs was given as the primary reason why SW:TOR abandoned individual class stories post release. (and later abandoned faction stories as well)

Note that the cost of branching arcs is not just monetary, but also in development time.

[squallaus.8321]

@"DaShi.1368" said:No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

Jessica's "article" that started all this: https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014234740772126720

The article that Jessica put up was to explain why its not possible to make the protagonist of a mmorpg in such a way that players in general can deeply relate to because it has to cater to a large group of people with varying personalities. Derior was simply arguing for players will feel more invested if branching dialog was implemented. You're over your head if you think that's "harassment".

[Leo G.4501]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"xarallei.4279" said:

Okay, I don't see that as a backhand. She says the genre is the fault point here but the partner says "perhaps it's just your game"? That's exactly right. SWTOR is the anti-thesis to her observation.

Yup. I keep seeing people try to bash Deroir and state how doing what he asks is impossible and he doesn't know what he's talking about. They specifically point to the genre and say it can't be done with MMOs....but, well SWTOR did it, so it's obviously not so impossible as they think it is. Now maybe there is something regarding the Living Story in particular that makes it not work? Who knows, but instead of biting the head off of player she could have just answered in a civil manner. Instead she was rude and dismissive. That kind of behavior is simply not acceptable. She is an Arenanet employee in a public setting talking to a customer. When interacting with customers some thought must be put into your responses.

SW:TOR had a 200million dollar development budget (this number doesn't include marketing) just for the vanilla game, and has gone down in video game history as the single most costly video game ever produced. (The second most expensive game to produce is GTA V at 137 million)

What SW:TOR did isn't really relevant for studios that have sane budgets. Price's original comment (before she exploded) was more or less on point with the limitations of game writing.

They also made, like 8 branching stories with different scenarios, choices and branching dialogs. I'd assume GW2 making, like, 3 wouldn't break the bank (so to speak).

[GoGoBunny.6324]

I feel bad for all parties involved. I see both sides of this and do wish there was a less permanent decision to what transpired. Please remember to tread social media carefully guys. It can burn bad.

[Shoyoko.7309]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"mixxed.5862" said:I'm disgusted by this community's reaction to her tweet, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

She obviously perceived herself as being treated in a sexist way and called it out. It doesn't matter whether this indeed was the case or not, because it is very understandable how she could arrive at that conclusion:She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why it's state of the art in the MMORPG genre to present the player character the way they do. A hardcore fan chimes in to "politely" tell her he disagrees and suggests to implement branching story lines as if she was a complete amateur and never heard of it. That fan implied she as a dev on the narrative team was incompetent at her job to then kindly tell her how to do it better. He probably didn't mean to but this is what you'll take from his comment when you read on the relationship and appeal layer from her perspective instead of taking it purely as factual (if you're not familiar with the four-sides model of communication you probably won't be able to make sense of this). Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account and the outlined context, she wasn't wrong in taking the comment as a personal slight. She then reacted accordingly.Women wrongfully being regarded as less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise and for no other reason than their gender. It unmistakably is sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to detect.

Imo her reaction was perfectly understandable - although it was unprofessional. She shouldn't have replied to criticism on her own twitter account like a private person.

Thank you! A thousand times this! Many may not understand where she's coming from, but that doesn't make her wrong.

The definition of sexism:prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

Now please tell me, where did Deroir imply that his comment was influenced by her gender. Even as a woman, I can see that it was clear that if anything, she could have taken it as a personal slight workwise at most but there was never any indication that his comment was negative due to her gender anywhere. What Jessica Price did was verbally one of harshest thing you could to someone which was implying Deroir a sexist.Imagine if I was the one who wrote the piece, Deroir replied the same way and I called him racist. Pretty harsh right?! That's how harsh calling someone sexist is. It's literally one of the worst labels you could give someone, especially to someone like Deroir who was not only a gw2 player, he was a partner of Anet?! What happen to "innocent until proven guilty"?!Whilst you guys have a point about the current sexism in our society, this is clearly not the right battlefield for such debate rather the only reason we are having this conversation is due to JP's accusation and nothing else.I believe she was too quick to judge and was naive to believe that any tweets in her private twitter wouldn't gain attention and responses from GW2 players even though she was clearly talking about GW2 and her bio mentions arenanet.

[DaShi.1368]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"DaShi.1368" said:No, Derior wasn't owed kitten. And no, this isn't about privacy. It's about harassment, which is what Jessica was experiencing. If Derior wanted to make a respectful comment, he could have done so by saying that he didn't feel invested in the character. However, he chose to imply that players weren't invested, which was basically saying "You suck."

Jessica's "article" that started all this:

https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014234740772126720

The article that Jessica put up was to explain why its not possible to make the protagonist of a mmorpg in such a way that players in general can deeply relate to because it has to cater to a large group of people with varying personalities. Derior was simply arguing for players will feel more invested if branching dialog was implemented. You're over your head if you think that's "harassment".

Read what he actually wrote. He did say that but he said it in a way that was specifically condescending. He could have said: "What about branching dialog? Do you think this could improve players' relationship to their characters?" This allows for a conversation that respects her work and both their knowledge of the field.

[Damilk.3024]

I can tell you this has brought be back into GW2. Thank you Mo.

[Sylv.5324]

@"Shoyoko.7309" said:

What happen to "innocent until proven guilty"?

That's a legal term that not even the courts take seriously, so it doesn't have anything to do with anything.

[DaShi.1368]

@Shoyoko.7309 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@"mixxed.5862" said:I'm disgusted by this community's reaction to her tweet, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

She obviously perceived herself as being treated in a sexist way and called it out. It doesn't matter whether this indeed was the case or not, because it is very understandable how she could arrive at that conclusion:She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why it's state of the art in the MMORPG genre to present the player character the way they do. A hardcore fan chimes in to "politely" tell her he disagrees and suggests to implement branching story lines as if she was a complete amateur and never heard of it. That fan implied she as a dev on the narrative team was incompetent at her job to then kindly tell her how to do it better. He probably didn't mean to but this is what you'll take from his comment when you read on the relationship and appeal layer from her perspective instead of taking it purely as factual (if you're not familiar with the four-sides model of communication you probably won't be able to make sense of this). Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account and the outlined context, she wasn't wrong in taking the comment as a personal slight. She then reacted accordingly.Women wrongfully being regarded as less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise and for no other reason than their gender. It unmistakably is sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to detect.

Imo her reaction was perfectly understandable - although it was unprofessional. She shouldn't have replied to criticism on her own twitter account like a private person.

Thank you! A thousand times this! Many may not understand where she's coming from, but that doesn't make her wrong.

The definition of sexism:prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

Now please tell me, where did Deroir imply that his comment was influenced by her gender. Even as a woman, I can see that it was clear that if anything, she could have taken it as a personal slight workwise at most but there was never any indication that his comment was negative due to her gender anywhere. What Jessica Price did was verbally one of harshest thing you could to someone which was implying Deroir a sexist.Imagine if I was the one who wrote the piece, Deroir replied the same way and I called him racist. Pretty harsh right?! That's how harsh calling someone sexist is. It's literally one of the worst labels you could give someone, especially to someone like Deroir who was not only a gw2 player, he was a partner of Anet?! What happen to "innocent until proven guilty"?Whilst you have point about the current sexism in our society, this is clearly not the right battlefield for such debate rather the only reason we are having this conversation is due to JP's accusation and nothing else.I believe she was too quick to judge and was naive to believe that any tweets in her private twitter would gain attention and responses from GW2 players even though she was clearly talking about GW2 and her bio mentions arenanet.

I don't think so at all. Deroir did come across as a sexist. If he wasn't, he would have recognized how his comments could have been taken that way and apologized. It's really that simple.

His post was a clear case of mansplaining with a touch of negging, which is totally sexist.