GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Donari.5237]

@DakkBlakk.5648 said:Wow, i left this game years ago because of this person and the toxicity i'd experienced. When i heard about this i came to see if it was true.I'm reinstalling the game now!!

From one Mo the another MO and to ANET, thank you for getting rid of the bully!!!

I so wasn't going to weigh in on any of these threads, really I wasn't, and I'm still not going to. Except to say that since she'd only been with the company for a year according to those who researched her based on all this, I doubt she was the one you're thinking of.

Not to say you shouldn't give the game another chance, there are many good reasons to do so, but I feel it is important to keep the facts of this incident known and not spun into incorrect versions. You never know who might latch onto the idea that somehow she was a founding dev or something and use that to further their agenda.

[Scud.5067]

@thruine.8510 said:

@Eponet.4829 said:

@thruine.8510 said:Take racism. I can't really know what its like which is why so many white males have trouble with it. But I can listen to those who have experienced and model my behavior accordingly.

Well, if you'll listen to the experiences of a half caucasian/half pacific islander (With mixed race people historically experiencing the greatest degree of racism per person) who had a grandfather that straight up told my mother not to marry my father because he was 'black'.

From my experiences, racism towards me is a major rarity in my generation. The most I get is the occasional question of what my ethnicity is because pacific islanders are a major minority that a bunch of people don't know the typical physical traits of, which is a little annoying in that I have to go into detail about my ancestry (Not helped at all by the fact that the caucasian half is itself made up of at least 6 different countries and probably more from way back) in order to give an accurate answer. No one's ever singled me out in a negative light because of it in any way that I've noticed, and in fact, it worked to my advantage when it came to applying for university to apply as a pacific islander rather than just ticking other and putting my nationality (Let us tick multiple boxes please).

You should feel lucky. I'm guessing if you lived in my area you'd probably be thought of another of those "Mexicans" who have moved into the area in large numbers this past decade. But you mentioned something that helps illustrate my point about being a white male. I never have to explain my ancestry. I never have to correct someone of my citizenship. In fact, that's the last thing I'd ever have to answer.

Eh. White male here. And Irish/Italian. With a very Italian surname, and a very Irish look, apparently. Its the ginger and fear of sunlight, no doubt!

And explaining all the time!

No blacks, no Irish, as the signs used to say - and there's a fair bit of latent prejudice even now. We're all drinkers didn't you here! Kiss me I'm a leprechaun! A fiery sex machine, a stallion no doubt! Of course I love pasta!

Once had an interesting conversation with a 'SJW' who didn't know about the rampant prejudice against the Irish.

Denied it off the bat. Didn't fit their narrative, which to be fair, was incoherent at best.

Had to Google them up some search results. Put them in a spin, safe to say! =)

Still, I wouldn't say folks are being racist, just because they assume I'm prone to violence, untrustworthy and probable boozer. Just ill informed.

While there's a lot hate and ignorance in the world, most of the time folks are, at worst, bigoted. I can live with that.

We share, I share, they share - every walks out the door a little confused but assured that they were talking to another human being.

Good stuff!

And to be clear, for the folks sitting at the back of the bus: Racism: Bad. Prejudice: Bad. Drama peddling and virtue signalling: Bad. Bullying: Bad.

[Zero Of Shadow.2576]

@"Feithlinn.9284" said:

I had no idea that anyone has to take mine or your opinion on how to reply when they feel harassed. I'll keep that in mind next time.

this is true, but when your discussing your buisness(AKA the AMA), you are, in turn, still representing your job, and as such, your actions will leave an impression on them, cause thats simply as humans work.

she did have all right to act the way she did, but the devs also had the right to do what they did in response.

if she wants to express herself in a manner that will not hurt the buisness, she needs to seperate her personal and buisness accounts (IE, don't straight up say "works for so and so")

in example: i have two twitters, one is this name here, the other is my real name, they never reference one another, i could be as mean as i possibly wanted on this one and it would be risk free for me, as there is no way to connect me to my job, which makes the blame for the outcome fall upon her.

remember: personal is not the same thing as private, personal is still public and your actions affect all that are associated with you.

[Loukious.7346]

@"Laivine.9308" said:

If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

In my old job I was given "unwanted" feedback on EVERYTHING on social media (showing my age here....on MySpace). Was told I did this wrong, that wrong. Told I needed to be more compassionate, more understanding. Told I needed to die for my job. What was my job? US military combat medic. What did I do with this feedback? Some of it I read and could see interesting points. Others were fucking moronic. How did I respond? I laughed. I shook my head. I looked at my RoE and thought if they could be implemented in a way that kept us and others safe. Did I once verbally abuse ANYONE over that? No. I just moved on. You see the difference is..JP is a child mentally. She blames everyone else but herself. Everyone is "out to get her". If she had just took what he wrote as an idea and responded in a more mature manner and not as harsh criticism and responded as he was attacking her, she'd still be employed right now.

[Twyn.7320]

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Twyn.7320 said:

@Feithlinn.9284 said:

@Loukious.7346 said:

@Twyn.7320 said:This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express

their

character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

I had no idea that anyone has to take mine or your opinion on how to reply when they feel harassed. I'll keep that in mind next time.

She wasn't being harassed. It was an opposing view that she turned into a dispute. If she'd kept a level-head, like most normal people, she'd have pushed the feedback towards the Guild Wars 2 Forums, or Reddit for a further discussion. She chose to reply in the horrendous way that she did, and she did it multiple times, to multiple people, across multiple days. There's no wall to hide behind, and there shouldn't be one. It was a disgusting situation, and one that ArenaNet's dealt with in the only way possible. Feel free to disagree, but a simple apology wouldn't have fixed anything, not to reclaim the credibility that ArenaNet almost lost to the wider industry.

Certainly it was a disgusting situation but all the coins have at least two sides. What about the credibilty that ArenaNet lost to the wider industry, their own employees and the community people that completely disagree with the decision?

From what I've seen, the people who dislike the decision are in the minority. The majority, along with the various media outlets with any kind of influence are back to promoting the game as it should be, and praising ArenaNet for setting the industry example. Their own employees are hurt by the sudden decision, however, Matthew Medina recently posted, and I quote:

'There's a lot of fear and anxious feelings going around today, so let me just make it clear:

Can't stop, won't stop, engaging with our game's fans and players on Twitter.

That is all.' - Matthew Medina, or the Hero of Path of Fire IMO.

The employees are aware that the fired members were in the wrong, and they've accepted that. I'm aware that Matthew is one person in a large company, but he's in a role of authority, especially in the Narrative Department. From this horrendous PR, somehow, ArenaNet's managed to spin it into amazing PR for the game and restored a lot of respect with players who felt disillusioned with the direction of Guild Wars 2. It was nice to hear from Mike again, and get the re-assurance that the community is actually important, not people with regressive attitudes.

[Raizel.8175]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Laivine.9308 said:

@Loukious.7346 said:

@"Twyn.7320" said:This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express

their

character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

It's not rocket science.

Apparently it is to some people...

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

after reading the twitter mess that caused all this and being somewhat involved with managing people, I would like to add a thought:

if this would have been a singular incident, any official reaction would have been too much. Just take her aside for a stern talking, maybe some classes on anger management, dealing with valid critizism and online behaviour. No harm done.

But, and this is a fat but with fanfares, excelsior and a angel choir in the background: this was not a singular incident. The person in question has a history of misandric, xenophobic, insulting, agressive posts.

There is a point where even a dumb and slight disgression is just the one too many.

Short version: if this would have been her first moment of twitter induced socially questionable behaviour, letting her go would have been completely over the top. It wasn't, so I think, it was the right call.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Ash.5274 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement.

So you should expect your employer to have your back when you make that employer look bad on social media? Really?

For what it's worth I completely agree that losing your job is never a good thing, but they lost their jobs as a direct consequence of their own actions. They have no one to blame but themselves, it really is as simple as that.

So you're saying the company you work for controls your

personal

social media presence the minute you include who you work for in your

personal

social media, or write something that happens to be about what you work on? Well, I've decided to enlighten myself and allow people to have a work life and a personal life, two entirely different areas that should almost never encroach on each other, and that what someone says or does on their personal time does not nor ever will reflect on their employer...but I'm in the super minority on this point.

Yes and yes. You are free to post whatever you like on your personal social media accounts but if the content breaks the code of conduct for your company they have every right to remove you from your position. Turns out consequences exist

Interesting how you completely ignored the remainder of my statement only to answer the rhetorical question I posed at the beginning...so let me restate what I said. It's my belief that your employer

does not

have control over what you post on your

personal

social media, regardless of whether or not said employer is listed on your personal social media accounts, and to further clarify, your employer does not need to have your back on what you post, but

neither do they have the right to sensor you

, it's your

personal thoughts and opinions, not the companies

...that's the difference and corporate America(and the World) needs to learn that.

Thats not true at all, twitter isnt personal at all. Its accessible for all people. Furthermore, your points are valid to some degree, there is a line between personal life and work. But if you state in your "personal" social media account that you work for company in the gaming scene you also increase your range drasticly. If she doenst dress herself with being an anet employee she would just be another twitter nobody, nobody would even care to give her any attention at all.

The fact that she willingly connects these two aspects means she also takes a responsibility here. Shes not just a personal twitter account at this moment anymore. This is, like in the comedy scene, or in politics, if you shittalk some of your fans, suppporters or customers (especially in gaming) you gotta pay the consequences.

On topic, i think ANet did the right thing here, proving that they are not just the illusion of teamwork or a "business model" based on the "creating games for the players".

Did ArenaNet set up that Twitter account for JP...if not then it's personal, regardless of what information you place on it...that is the basis of my entire thought process when it comes to these kind of social media issues. Unless the employer provides you that social media account it doesn't matter to me who or what you list on that account, it's your own personal account and the thoughts on that account belong to you and you alone, they do not reflect on your employer, even if you name that employer on your account. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand...are people so psychologically screwed up they can't separate the person from their job anymore? It happens a lot with athletes too, and politicians...I really don't understand humans anymore, it's like they've locked themselves into this tiny little moment in time and are unwilling to learn and change with the times. Sort of like how GW2 maps are snippets of time.

[Feithlinn.9284]

If you missed it: He instantly stepped down from the discussion with her after her initial reply - he even apologized if he offended her. She herself chose to escalate stuff. The person that brought the topic to reddit was a friend of him that wasn't amused that his friend was being insulted and branded as sexist by her.

I did miss it and I'm sorry I did not mentioned it even if he did not step down. Then what happened? This morning what happened? Maybe Peter Fries twitter feedback for example? Please enlighten me.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@WingLegacy.7159 said:Enough Anet close this thread....

@"CETheLucid.3964" said:What? You don't find all the crazies with alt accounts that have no real posting history jumping out of the woodwork entertaining?

Oh. Right.

I want to clarify here that I'm poking fun at myself. I'm a random crazy with no real posting history coming out of the woodwork. That's why I said "Oh. Right."

I notice now however you're also pretty new to the forums yourself so I'm sorry for any misunderstanding there. I don't think your crazy. I think your initial sentiment is naive but the later one is fair. The thread ran it's course around page 10.

I think it's about keeping it up for the sake of the community so everyone gets an idea of what's happened and what's going on if you weren't actively following the debacle on reddit prior. It'll be closed soon enough.

Gotta let everyone their ooh and ahh and their alts their .02 cents. ¯\(ツ)/¯

[Shadowmoon.7986]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-redditAnd she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

[Feithlinn.9284]

From what I've seen, the people who dislike the decision are in the minority. The majority, along with the various media outlets with any kind of influence are back to promoting the game as it should be, and praising ArenaNet for setting the industry example. Their own employees are hurt by the sudden decision, however, Matthew Medina recently posted, and I quote:

'There's a lot of fear and anxious feelings going around today, so let me just make it clear:

Can't stop, won't stop, engaging with our game's fans and players on Twitter.

That is all.' - Matthew Medina, or the Hero of Path of Fire IMO.

The employees are aware that the fired members were in the wrong, and they've accepted that. I'm aware that Matthew is one person in a large company, but he's in a role of authority, especially in the Narrative Department. From this horrendous PR, somehow, ArenaNet's managed to spin it into amazing PR for the game and restored a lot of respect with players who felt disillusioned with the direction of Guild Wars 2. It was nice to hear from Mike again, and get the re-assurance that the community is actually important, not people with regressive attitudes.

Even if they are the minority which I highly doubt what is your point? Minority is not part of the community or should the company ignore them completely?

I already saw what Matthew Medina posted and we'll see if he will keep his promise the most importantly under what circumstances .

[Raizel.8175]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Ash.5274 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement.

So you should expect your employer to have your back when you make that employer look bad on social media? Really?

For what it's worth I completely agree that losing your job is never a good thing, but they lost their jobs as a direct consequence of their own actions. They have no one to blame but themselves, it really is as simple as that.

So you're saying the company you work for controls your

personal

social media presence the minute you include who you work for in your

personal

social media, or write something that happens to be about what you work on? Well, I've decided to enlighten myself and allow people to have a work life and a personal life, two entirely different areas that should almost never encroach on each other, and that what someone says or does on their personal time does not nor ever will reflect on their employer...but I'm in the super minority on this point.

Yes and yes. You are free to post whatever you like on your personal social media accounts but if the content breaks the code of conduct for your company they have every right to remove you from your position. Turns out consequences exist

Interesting how you completely ignored the remainder of my statement only to answer the rhetorical question I posed at the beginning...so let me restate what I said. It's my belief that your employer

does not

have control over what you post on your

personal

social media, regardless of whether or not said employer is listed on your personal social media accounts, and to further clarify, your employer does not need to have your back on what you post, but

neither do they have the right to sensor you

, it's your

personal thoughts and opinions, not the companies

...that's the difference and corporate America(and the World) needs to learn that.

Thats not true at all, twitter isnt personal at all. Its accessible for all people. Furthermore, your points are valid to some degree, there is a line between personal life and work. But if you state in your "personal" social media account that you work for company in the gaming scene you also increase your range drasticly. If she doenst dress herself with being an anet employee she would just be another twitter nobody, nobody would even care to give her any attention at all.

The fact that she willingly connects these two aspects means she also takes a responsibility here. Shes not just a personal twitter account at this moment anymore. This is, like in the comedy scene, or in politics, if you shittalk some of your fans, suppporters or customers (especially in gaming) you gotta pay the consequences.

On topic, i think ANet did the right thing here, proving that they are not just the illusion of teamwork or a "business model" based on the "creating games for the players".

Did ArenaNet set up that Twitter account for JP...if not then it's personal, regardless of what information you place on it...that is the basis of my entire thought process when it comes to these kind of social media issues. Unless the employer provides you that social media account it doesn't matter to me who or what you list on that account, it's your own personal account and the thoughts on that account belong to you and you alone, they do not reflect on your employer, even if you name that employer on your account. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand...are people so psychologically screwed up they can't separate the person from their job anymore? It happens a lot with athletes too, and politicians...I really don't understand humans anymore, it's like they've locked themselves into this tiny little moment in time and are unwilling to learn and change with the times. Sort of like how GW2 maps are snippets of time.

I'm sorry, but this isn't how human society works. Work isn't just a means to earn money. Work also has important social functions such as generating the feeling that you're contributing to the society or the way it forms your identity. Work will always be a part of someones identity and as such, people will always represent their work, no matter if they want or not. If people don't want that, they shouldn't publicly associate themselves with their work. Mrs. Price did though and thus, she also represents her work. It's not anyones fault but her own that she dragged her work into it.

[omgitsbees.8137]

Something else I keep seeing get swept under the rug is that Jessica Price was literally encouraged to speak her mind and be loud, by her very employer. She told ArenaNet during her interview process with the company that this is how she acts on social media and she had no plans of stopping, and they gave her the thumbs up. It's super telling that Arena Net is okay with firing a woman for speaking her mind.

[Phosphorite.6192]

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-redditAnd she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

And I am absolutely with her on this.

"Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

Huh how fast the tables can turn.

[Feithlinn.9284]

I'm sorry, but this isn't how human society works. Work isn't just a means to earn money. Work also has important social functions such as generating the feeling that you're contributing to the society or the way it forms your identity. Work will always be a part of someones identity and as such, people will always represent their work, no matter if they want or not. If people don't want that, they shouldn't publicly associate themselves with their work. Mrs. Price did though and thus, she also represents her work. It's not anyones fault but her own that she dragged her work into it.

“It is so.When YOU think so”― Luigi Pirandello

[Winged.6910]

"Loukious.7346" said:This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

^ YES.

Her behaviour was unacceptable. She has no one to blame but herself, as she is the only one who can control her actions... so I really don't feel any sympathy. I wouldn't want someone who works for me to treat anyone like she did, and they certainly wouldn't have a place in my company if they did. I believe ArenaNet made the correct decision here.

[omgitsbees.8137]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:after reading the twitter mess that caused all this and being somewhat involved with managing people, I would like to add a thought:

if this would have been a singular incident, any official reaction would have been too much. Just take her aside for a stern talking, maybe some classes on anger management, dealing with valid critizism and online behaviour. No harm done.

But, and this is a fat but with fanfares, excelsior and a angel choir in the background: this was not a singular incident. The person in question has a history of misandric, xenophobic, insulting, agressive posts.

There is a point where even a dumb and slight disgression is just the one too many.

Short version: if this would have been her first moment of twitter induced socially questionable behaviour, letting her go would have been completely over the top. It wasn't, so I think, it was the right call.

She was literally given the okay to have this sort of behavior. She straight up said this is how she acts on social media and ArenaNet encouraged it.

[thruine.8510]

@Raizel.8175 said:One thing that really interests me: Is this an american (meaning: USA) kinda problem? I've talked with a lot of friends about this topic and they're all profoundly confused. They all agree that Deroir's reply was perfectly fine and can't for the love of god understand the mind of Mrs. Price, yet there are a lot of people here that totally left the area of what we'd call common sense, especially these pseudo-feminists. If you're interested in politics, there is always this debate of a strongly split american society. Is it really that bad?

This past election showed the country is almost split evenly. At least as far as voters are concerned. We've been a country divided. We came together once this century and even that didn't last long. Not sure how to mend the split when both sides sees the other as dangerous and completely opposite the values of this country. We saw children caged not to long ago. That hasn't happened since WWII. Its not a great time for the country and hasn't really been in a very long time.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

I'd just like to add - Although very unlikely that people will stop - People are now going one step further and messaging these two people with quite disgusting messages.. what's done is done let them be.

[Phosphorite.6192]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:I'd just like to add - Although very unlikely that people will stop - People are now going one step further and messaging these two people with quite disgusting messages.. what's done is done let them be.

That's been happening since this whole shit show started, sadly. There are the most disgusting things being thrown out there, celebrating them being fired is mellow in comparison :/

[Bandlero.6312]

Honestly, none of the "debate" and discussion really matters for 1 really simple, important reason:

None of us know what the terms of their employment contracts were with ArenaNet. Since their employment was terminated, they very likely did in-fact violate the terms of their employment (aka did wrong.) Also, they were also probably let go with generous severance packages.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@"Phosphorite.6192" said:

"Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

Huh how fast the tables can turn.I don't think the people at ANet meant for her to create the issues. That's a step beyond discussing them.

And it's quite shocking that someone "willing to speak truth to power" would talk about the death of TotalBiscuit the way she did.

[DedTreeJig.3245]

The horse is dead, we can stop whipping it now and move on?

Edit: Punctuation

[Feithlinn.9284]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:I'd just like to add - Although very unlikely that people will stop - People are now going one step further and messaging these two people with quite disgusting messages.. what's done is done let them be.

They won't stop of course. That was the plan since this whole thing started. Pandora's box is already open.