GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Orcagami.5901]

Just want to add to the voices saying that this decision was hastily and poorly executed. The comments were rude to be sure but for the community and the company to escalate it to a fireable offense is disappointing. I had a lot of trust in Anet prior but this rash decision has shattered any confidence in the company. Regardless of your feelings towards JP, this only paints a picture of GW2 to outsiders as intolerant of female devs and those that would stand up for them. All those months of community outreach and this is what GW2 is going to be known for. I can no longer recommend this game in good faith to others if this gets brushed under the rug.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

[juhani.5361]

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Ace Kenshader.1253 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Laivine.9308 said:

@Loukious.7346 said:

@"Twyn.7320" said:This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express

their

character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

Somehow giving feedback is worse than insulting a player base.Yep.

What a strange world where feedback is not longer possible. Sometimes I wonder if everyone here has a job.

That's the simple reality of humanity now, tribal epistemology makes debates impossible as humans and groups now view each other as 'the other' and not to be trusted.

Let's have an event-week with having Social Awkwardness active everywhere. \o/

Hey, stop making fun of my entire existence! =) snerk

I just wonder why doing the right thing in a case like this always feels so wrong. Anet was absolutely in the right to terminate both employees. It's sad, though, that actions like this usually enable the worst elements of society-- or "community."

I've been keeping a read on this thread, and some of the stuff from both sides of the community spectrum has been disturbing. But I guess that's what happens when the basic veneer of civility we all used to wear has been sanded away by "truth." Except the actual truth is found in facts, rationality, and logic, not in perception or emotion. And that's why I think I'm going back to my hermit cave now, because the whole situation is a giant quagmire. Yuck.

I'll probably be back to playing the game when everything dies down-- I can't imagine map chat is a pleasant place right about now with the influx of alt-righties :# For now, I've got 20 more CP to grind out in ESO.

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

This video explains this situation more in detail and yes it by the same guy who I shared the last video from yesterday

[IndigoSundown.5419]

There's only one winner in this situation:

• Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.
• Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.
• Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.
• Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.
• Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
• Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

That means we all lost.

[Batelle.1680]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that shit ever, but especially on a regular basis.

[perilisk.1874]

I can't say I feel great that a couple of people who just days ago were (respectfully) talking with the community in the AFC, and sharing technical insight and passion for their work, aren't around anymore. All the same, ArenaNet was handed a bad situation, and it sounds like they made the best decision they could under the circumstances. The lack of toxicity and respectfulness in the community has always been a positive for Guild Wars, relative to other gaming communities, and it isn't an accident but something that ArenaNet has worked hard to cultivate, with the expectations they set not just for their developers but for their players and fans. When deeply disrespectful public behavior is tolerated, it can spread like a cancer, encouraging other people to think they can or are entitled to start behaving the same way.

Hopefully JP and PF land on their feet, a little wiser for the experience. I've enjoyed the writing in recent content, and I'm sure they each played a big part in that; another studio will be lucky to have them. I also hope that morale at ArenaNet doesn't suffer for what was probably a very extraordinary situation, and that the developers know that we really appreciate hearing about their enthusiasm and experiences and ideas (even when we disagree!).

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:There's only one winner in this situation:

• Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.
• Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.
• Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.
• Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.
• Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
• Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

That means we all lost.

Price would have been hazardous to the company if she was kept around and kept insulting the PLAYER BASE OF THE GAME AND COMPANY SHE WORKED FOR!

Anet did the right thing by putting the COMMUNITY OF THE GAME FIRST before TOXIC EMPLOYEES!

So the true winners are Anet, and the Community.

Some will have disagreeing opinions and will probably leave the game HOWEVER! I have noticed more new players coming in and that's a good thing!

[juhani.5361]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:There's only one winner in this situation:

• Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.
• Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.
• Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.
• Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.
• Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
• Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

That means we all lost.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Ugh.

[Eevee.9107]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:thrown the gender card

sorry but there's no way to take anyone who unironically uses this phrase seriously

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm not going to defend either party's actions here because this whole thing reeks of people lacking any semblance of decency on both sides of the fence and I'm not sure if Peter's severance was totally warranted. That said, you should look into more of what she posted. Even after the guy apologized, she continued to bombard him with a string of personal attacks and she has a history of antagonizing other GW2 community members totally unprovoked if you really look through it all. Though I do wonder if a lot of the tweets have been pulled down as many have been already.

[STIHL.2489]

And the lesson learned here folks.. is never mix your professional life with your personal life, keep your social circle small and private, if you want to have a Professional presence on the Net, make a "professional account" that is clean, sanitized, and only used for polite self promotion to give to the public.

Anything else.. and you are asking for trouble.. like losing your job.

[Scud.5067]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm not going to defend either party's actions here because this whole thing reeks of people lacking any semblance of decency on both sides of the fence and I'm not sure if Peter's severance was totally warranted. That said, you should look into more of what she posted. Even after the guy apologized, she continued to bombard him with a string of personal attacks and she has a history of antagonizing other GW2 community members totally unprovoked if you really look through it all. Though I do wonder if a lot of the tweets have been pulled down as many have been already.

Yeah - someone you don't know says something.

It annoys you.

You react.

They apologize.

Do you:

A: Attack them. Ridicule them. Bully them.

B: Recognise yet another bump in human interaction, take the apology and move on.

People defending this behaviour, all I can hope is you're not on the recieving end of the same kinda thing in the future.

BONUS ROUND

The same someone apologizes again.

Do you:

A: Continue to attack them. Continue to ridicule them. Continue to bully them.

B: Recognise yet another bump in human interaction, take the apology and move on.

People, this isn't rocket surgery. Did we just forget the 'ole maxim, 'Treat others as you wish to be treated' ?

[Menoitios.8375]

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

1. Misandry is a thing and she has a history of displaying it.
2. I will agree, she never used the term "evil" (at least that I saw)
3. He did not "mainsplain", it's called constructive criticism. If you cannot accept constructive criticism as a professional then you are done growing as a professional.

[Roven Leafsong.8917]

Beyond disappointed in how Arenanet has handled this whole mess. I have nothing more to offer that hasn't already been said a thousand times already.

I want to see an inclusive games industry where creative people of all kinds are valued, supported and protected from the online abuse that can so easily be accepted as normal from toxic elements of the gamer community. I no longer see Anet as part of that solution.

Let's hope there are more MMOs by other studios that provide a supportive environment for their staff, that I can support without feeling like I'm implicitly accepting the status quo.

[TexZero.7910]

@"Batelle.1680" said:

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

1. It is a thing, just as misogyny is. To ignore this is why we have the endemic problems we do.
2. By going out of the way to use the term Mansplaining, she was directly attacking him for being male. Nowhere in the converstation was gender even remotely a part of the issue and nor should it have ever crossed into the dialogue.

It is a huge problem that for Ms. Price that instead of acting sensible, she resorted to jumping at shadows. Not everyone is out to get you, some people in life just have different viewpoints and the best way to understand each other is to have civil discourse and educate not be dismissive just because you have "experience". The smart person may know, but the wise person knows how to impart knowledge.

[juhani.5361]

@Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:There's only one winner in this situation:

• Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.
• Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.
• Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.
• Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.
• Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
• Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

That means we all lost.

Price would have been hazardous to the company if she was kept around and kept insulting the PLAYER BASE OF THE GAME AND COMPANY SHE WORKED FOR!

Anet did the right thing by putting the COMMUNITY OF THE GAME FIRST before TOXIC EMPLOYEES!

So the true winners are Anet, and the Community.

Some will have disagreeing opinions and will probably leave the game HOWEVER! I have noticed more new players coming in and that's a good thing!

I'm a part of the community, and I definitely _don't_feel like this is a win. And, honestly, this whole situation is a setback for women in the gaming industry-- not to mention in society as a whole. Anet's actions were necessary, but they're nothing to be celebrated. All of this brigading and mob mentality does nothing but degrade the GW2 community.

[Menoitios.8375]

@"Roven Leafsong.8917" said:Beyond disappointed in how Arenanet has handled this whole mess. I have nothing more to offer that hasn't already been said a thousand times already.

I want to see an inclusive games industry where creative people of all kinds are valued, supported and protected from the online abuse that can so easily be accepted as normal from toxic elements of the gamer community. I no longer see Anet as part of that solution.

Let's hope there are more MMOs by other studios that provide a supportive environment for their staff, that I can support without feeling like I'm implicitly accepting the status quo.

So, you want "people of all kinds valued" but not the community? You want people to be "supported and protected from online abuse" even when they are the ones giving it?

Do you not see the hypocrisy?

[Scud.5067]

@Roven Leafsong.8917 said:Beyond disappointed in how Arenanet has handled this whole mess. I have nothing more to offer that hasn't already been said a thousand times already.

I want to see an inclusive games industry where creative people of all kinds are valued, supported and protected from the online abuse that can so easily be accepted as normal from toxic elements of the gamer community. I no longer see Anet as part of that solution.

Let's hope there are more MMOs by other studios that provide a supportive environment for their staff, that I can support without feeling like I'm implicitly accepting the status quo.

Have you even read her comments? Her bullying? Or are you blindly jumping on a bandwagon?

I'm sorry, you're right -- people should be protected from the online abuse that can so easily be accepted as normal from toxic elements. As Arena Net has done. Because she was very, very toxic.

[Otacon Link.8320]

Thanks ANet for the quick response. The way you respect the community is what makes Guild Wars 2 such a beloved MMO.

[Melody.7493]

Yes she maybe misinterpreted a comment and overreacted. But that's why she's employed as a creative and not public relations. Ultimately 1) it was her personal twitter account, 2) she didn't harm anyone & 3) the exchange did not escalate.A slap on the wrist and warning would have been appropriate. Firing 2 employees?
Internet people are always out for blood; they're anonymous and disconnected from consequences. Legitimising this sort of mentality is divisive and dangerous.

[Menoitios.8375]

@"Melody.7493" said:Yes she maybe misinterpreted a comment and overreacted. But that's why she's employed as a creative and not public relations. Ultimately 1) it was her personal twitter account, 2) she didn't harm anyone & 3) the exchange did not escalate.A slap on the wrist and warning would have been appropriate. Firing 2 employees?

Internet people are always out for blood; they're anonymous and disconnected from consequences. Legitimising this sort of mentality is divisive and dangerous.

1. It stopped being her personal twitter account after she labeled herself in the bio as a Narrative Writer at ArenaNet AND posted a topic about her work on a public forum as an employee of ArenaNet.
2. Didn't harm anyone? She publicly put him on blast as sexist when he was being very polite, that's like yelling racist at someone for no reason, it's just unacceptable.
3. See my previous point.

ArenaNet did not legitimize any sort of mentality, they held two adults responsible for their actions. Nothing more, nothing less, we can only assume what went on behind closed doors and we do not need those details. If you didn't want them held accountable for their actions they are the ones who would truly be "disconnected from consequences".

[Roven Leafsong.8917]

@"Menoitios.8375" said:So, you want "people of all kinds valued"Yes.but not the community?No, that's not what I said.You want people to be "supported and protected from online abuse" even when they are the ones giving it?Yes. Because context matters. What 'abuse' means matters. Ruining someone's life over an ill-considered tweet or poorly handled frustration is, well, pretty evil.

Do you not see the hypocrisy?No.

Anyway, I'll leave the community to further discussion. I can't see anything constructive coming out of it now. I just wanted to give feedback to Arenanet on how I felt.

[Menoitios.8375]

@Roven Leafsong.8917 said:

@"Menoitios.8375" said:So, you want "people of all kinds valued"Yes.but not the community?No, that's not what I said.You want people to be "supported and protected from online abuse" even when they are the ones giving it?Yes. Because context matters. What 'abuse' means matters. Ruining someone's life over an ill-considered tweet or poorly handled frustration is, well, pretty evil.

Do you not see the hypocrisy?No.

Anyway, I'll leave the community to further discussion. I can't see anything constructive coming out of it now. I just wanted to give feedback to Arenanet on how I felt.

Not what you said? They did value her or they would not have hired her in the first place, simple as that. What they didn't value was her interaction with several community members on Twitter, which no business that actually cares about their public image would have valued that interaction, it was not good.

Google abuse, seriously, look up the definition. She was VERY abusive towards the community members that she put on blast meanwhile they were nothing but polite and even conceded the conversation and apologized multiple times when they never did anything wrong and she continued to put them on blast after that.

[Batelle.1680]

@"Menoitios.8375" said:

3. He did not "mainsplain", it's called constructive criticism. If you cannot accept constructive criticism as a professional then you are done growing as a professional.

It wasn't constructive criticism, it was "hey, here's a possible solution [suggests thing that is extremely common and anyone who has any experience in game development would be aware of]!"