GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[seinka.4823]

@miraude.2107 said:So it's perfectly acceptable for the community to be horrid right back?

No, of course not.

There needs to be a discourse that yes if an ArenaNet employee acts out of conduct to their statement there are consequences, the same needs to be done to the other side of the fence as well.

So what action do you think ANet should take, that should 'be done to the other side of the fence'? Do I accume correctly, that by 'the other side of the fence' you mean the random internet trolls? If yes, I don't think it's possible for ANet to somehow 'fire' them too... If not, who is 'the other side of the fence'?

[Wyvern.7951]

Gee this thread hurts my head. I hope Anet doesn't suffer from JP's interviews.

I never elaborated much on my last post, but the recent interview she had is plain awful and makes us look terrible. It's funny because in the interview she stated that 9 out 10 times, the GW2 community is great. Yet all she could do was focus on the negative. 9 out of 10 people weren't good enough to look at the bright side of our community. I sent a message to Peter earlier hoping him all the best. It's not much, but he gave it a like. I was sad to see him go and wanted to wish him the best. I really hope that the positive messages he has been receiving have outweighed the few terrible ones. I respect him for his work and want to believe he was just trying to stand up for a friend and coworker. I also respect Anet for their decisions. JP on the other hand, was rightfully let go. Deroir finally gave his opinion on the matter and he's sad that things went down this way. I'm glad that he stayed professional throughout this whole situation.

As a woman working with technology on a daily basis, I definitely get my fair share of not so great customers. Sexism exist and it's never fun to deal with by any means. That said, it can go both ways. That isn't an excuse to lash out at somebody undeserving. We are so much better than this. Every time a lady pulls out the gender card when it isn't appropriate, it only pushes the movement back. If we want to strive for equality we need to be level headed, take the high road and be better. If we continue to do so in a positive manner, things will move in the right direction. Prior to calling Deroir awful things, he praised Jessica Price. You can see it here, https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat . He was by no means sexist. I don't know how anyone can defend her for treating him the way she did.

I'm sad that she's continuing to slander Anet. I hope the community moves on from this and grow.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@twobears.5713 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@twobears.5713 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

There are strides being made, which is good, as I believe one of the OWL players is a girl. We need to encourage women to play games and foster the desire to play competitively as men are shaped to do (and earn their places in the top spots) to break the sexism by proving the naysayers wrong, rather than trying to force the issue. Unlike conventional sports where biology plays a huge factor in things, there's no biological reason for women not to be able to compete with guys in the digitl landscape, which is big to potentially breaking down a lot of this problem.

The reason that you see a higher number of women playing Overwatch, which translates into the rarity of someone like Geguri being found at the highest levels of play, is due to the fact that Blizzard is better at fostering a supportive environment for women and minorities than ANet. I didn't really feel that way until yesterday, where I came back to do some inventory shuffling in DR to find map chat reading like a Breitbart comment section. Blizzard, while hosting its fair share of controversies, seems better at keeping the far right elements that pepper gaming spaces in check. This stands in stark contrast to the situation we see here, where those elements essentially run the show.

I'm not sure about what strides Blizzard has made historically since I never really played WoW, but ANet has a long and positive history of including minorities and fairly progressive subjects in its game, especially GW2. There are a lot of nods towards LGBTQ+ heroes in GW2 (outside of Marjory and Kasmeer) and female badasses have been a huge part of the franchise since GW1, as well as black characters and African-inspired settings. We've openly been endorsed to run LGBTQ+ rallies in-game with ANet supporting them and cracking down on people trying to crash them. I'd argue ANet has been way better than Blizzard, honestly. Panderia was seen as endearing by the Asian audience (moreso than the western one, funnily enough), but let's not pretend it didn't just play harshly on tropes that could easily have been scorned as being slightly racist; and many did make the accusation still.

I'd like to remove the politics from this as well. I know first-wave feminists like my 103-year-old grandmother who are registered independent and have voted "conservative" in the past with much more nuanced political opinions as well as downright sexist "liberals" who I've disassociated from. Let's step back from the political tribalism for a moment and examine the issue of sexism in games independently rather than trying to align it into some kind of agenda with only loose ties with roughly half our population. Finger-pointing won't resolve the problem. We need to come together as a community. You won't find me complaining in DR or complaining about people complaining in DR. If people are spouting blatantly terrible things, use the report function. Please be mindful this ordeal is pretty heated, though; JP made some older tweets that literally stated "F- people from [country of origin]" which are now beginning to get exposed. People are pretty upset ANet let an employee get away with that. There is a fairly substantial base of players with that heritage, so we can't just lump them into being a radical negative. That doesn't help anyone, because it's just another assumption made about someone else, which is why we're here right now.

Back on topic of competitive female gamers, I have absolutely no idea if more women play Overwatch proportionally to other games. That's not a statistic I know to reference to be true or not. GW2 does have a pretty good female base, from my limited anecdotal experience, though, even in the competitive modes. The point I was making is that the handling of the pro scene is done well there and we should strive to foster our female base by encouraging them to play and play competitively, as the competitive aspects of games is traditionally what women have been most intimidated by and where the sexism is most rampant, and that we should not regress or try and force change that won't be appreciated. It's not a task I can achieve alone. If it were, we wouldn't have sexism in games, because I'd have fixed it already if I could.

I encourage everyone, please contemplate the verbiage of what you post here and in public chat in-game, and take a page from your own advice if you're frustrated by what you've seen before you comment; it's not for the public to really need to see unless you can word what you're saying eloquently. Gaming culture does have a bit of a problem, and we need to be the change - it benefits everyone. Let's be mindful of what happened here - that this woman absolutely said some pretty vile things with ANet's label beneath her name in a very unprofessional way, and to correct people who may be misinformed or not fully informed on the issue in a polite fashion - and move on. Calling people out, harassing them, sentiments preaching hate or bigotry or divisiveness or tribalism... that's not what we're about or should be about.

I thank you. Your veiled accusation that I am somehow the problem has certainly confirmed the correct nature of my decision to abandon the game that I have enjoyed so. I wish your community the best in the future, although I am not welcome in it.

Goodbye.

I don't see a reason why we can't treat each other with respect enough to create a welcoming environment in the game for everyone, and I suggest we take some personal responsibility to report and block players we deem acting inappropriately. Though I doubt you'll be here to read this if you've truly departed already, I mean no ill-will and I'm sorry if you feel attacked due to what others have said; I am only speaking on my own accord of trying to bring this community back to normalcy and banding together with what we have in common: GW2.

JP said some unquestionably bad things about Spanish people and people of Spanish descent, attacked individuals personally on multiple occasions totally unprovoked, and acted very unprofessionally touting the company name and her position while doing so. Those are just undeniable facts and you can go look through her tweets to find those mentionings if you wish. I am not strictly endorsing all of the actions performed by these employees' releases because I do not know the whole story behind them. That said, I believe JP's postings as a whole over a sustained period of time would warrant severance based on a collection of hurtful posts which she made while sporting the ANet brand name. I am not going to tell off people who agree with her stance on narrative writing, who may have empathy with her beliefs or womens' issues, or anything of the sort. I am not going to defend hate speech, denial of contemporary problems in gaming, or denial of acceptance of any demographic. Period. I do not care the source. Your opinions on those matters as well as any political affiliations are your own to have. Anyone condemning anyone else in this community on the personal level shouldn't be doing so while representing this community unless violations of the scope of the rules of this community have occurred.

If you do not wish to participate in recreation with people who may have differing opinions on subjects which have no pertinence to the game or this community... I cannot resolve that, and it's a decision you're entitled to make should you desire to part with the community. But this isn't an accusation, and my encouragement was aimed at the general population, thus my statement, "I encourage everyone...". Contributing to division outside of the scope of our game by invoking regional politics is something I do not intend to partake in or endorse and is something I see as being detrimental to the community as a whole. This is a global game composed of many different people from around the world. I can only attempt to preach respect and tolerance within our community. You have just as much a right to be here as anyone else, myself included, unless you violate the code of conduct. We're all bound by the same agreement.

So please, do not pin your justification of departure on me. If there are other factors motivating your decision, you are entitled to base your decision on what to do with your time and life on them and I will respect any conclusions you make. Those are self-contained and I have nothing to do with them, however.

I encourage everyone again to continue to be mindful of what they write on the forums, on reddit, and in-game. We're all representative of this community and we have been esteemed the past several years as being the best gaming community out there. Let this hiccup not ruin that.

[Linken.6345]

@Mil.3562 said:Looking at this whole faisco, regardless of what is right and what is wrong, I couldn't help but feeling sad when people lost their jobs because of their comments in a social media platform ;_;

A little off topic here. I read a lot of the word 'sexism' being mentioned. Despite my using the same female names on all my 5 characters, I am still being called dude and bro. I lost count of the number of times i have to tell my guildlies or players in the community that I am a girl IRL and always getting the same ' yah sure ' sarcastic replies. Nowadays I stop correcting them.

Why just because many guys play female toons in mmo, there are no real female players? Is this considered sexism too?

Alot of guys and some girls play females for oh me female give me stuff.Not all of them to but 90% of the females are more then likely guys so just easier for them to label you bro. (untill you correct them on a voice program like skyp or discord ^_^)

[Loli Ruri.8307]

@"Wyvern.7951" said:Gee this thread hurts my head. I hope Anet doesn't suffer from JP's interviews.

I never elaborated much on my last post, but the recent interview she had is plain awful and makes us look terrible. It's funny because in the interview she stated that 9 out 10 times, the GW2 community is great. Yet all she could do was focus on the negative. 9 out of 10 people weren't good enough to look at the bright side of our community. I sent a message to Peter earlier hoping him all the best. It's not much and he gave it a like. I was sad to see him go and wanted to wish him the best. I honestly would like to believe that he wanted to stand up for his coworker and I respect him for that. I also respect Anet for their decisions. JP on the other hand, was rightfully let go. Deroir finally gave his opinion on the matter and he's sad that things went down this way. I'm glad that he stayed professional throughout this whole situation.

As a woman working with technology on a daily basis, I definitely get my fair share of not so great customers. Sexism exist and it's never fun to deal with by any means. That said, it can go both ways. That isn't an excuse to lash out at somebody undeserving. We are so much better than this. Every time a lady pulls out the gender card when it isn't appropriate, it only pushes the movement back. If we want to strive for equality we need to be level headed, take the high road and be better. If we continue to do so in a positive manner, things will move in the right direction. Prior to calling Deroir awful things, he praised Jessica Price. You can see it here, https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat . He was by no means sexist. I don't know how anyone can defend her for treating him the way she did.

I'm sad that she's continuing to slander Anet. I hope the community moves on from this and grows.It's a human habit to focus on the negatives. It is also why the news tends to be bad news.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Some people are saying that ANet caved in to people on social media/reddit howling for blood. They say this with such certainty. I wonder how they know what happened at ANet. There are certainly other possibilities.

One might be that ANet employee contracts have a social media clause which prohibits employees from interacting with customers in certain ways. Such actions might allow for immediate termination. If there is such a clause, then not enforcing it in this case would make it difficult, if not impossible, to enforce it in the future.

Is that the case? I don't know. Neither does anyone who's not an ANet employee. Are there other factors in play that we know nothing about? I don't know, but I consider it likely.

I don't expect to change the mind of anyone who has already made up their mind that ANet is the villain here, but I'll say it anyway. Unless you know facts that have not been made generally available, you are making assumptions.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm doing wvw raids right now and the two people leading are female, are they womansplaining whenever we wipe? And believe me, it happens every week!If that sounds ridiculous to you, it's exactly what your explanation sounds to me. If you can freely skip the part where you actually show why this is sexist, let me do the same in this example. Yeah they're telling fellow raid guys what to do, so it HAS to do womansplaining, right?Yep. Completely fallacious.

Unless you can actually show that this "disagreement" would never happen if the dev was a guy, you can not demonstrate this "mansplaining" at all. Not you, nor all the people because you who tried in this thread and failed because of the obvious double standard.

[Vidar the Feral.3850]

I'm disappointed that you threw two of your developers under the bus for fear of bad PR. Is that the world we live in now that artists must live in constant terror of offending someone even when they are off duty and having a conversation in their own personal platform?

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Roven Leafsong.8917 said:Beyond disappointed in how Arenanet has handled this whole mess. I have nothing more to offer that hasn't already been said a thousand times already.

I want to see an inclusive games industry where creative people of all kinds are valued, supported and protected from the online abuse that can so easily be accepted as normal from toxic elements of the gamer community. I no longer see Anet as part of that solution.

Let's hope there are more MMOs by other studios that provide a supportive environment for their staff, that I can support without feeling like I'm implicitly accepting the status quo.

You're right, let's have a society where you can no longer give feedback if the dev is part of any subset of the society.Let's live in a world where a company is forced to keep their employee, even if said employees are ruining the company's reputation.

What a wonderful world this is gonna be.

This inclusive you're talking about is all but inclusive. You guys (persons? how do you even say that now...) can't even see that men and women alike have voiced their support to Anet. Nah, it's necessarily black or white. Only siths deal in absolutes has never been more true.

[Scoops.8490]

@CursedShaitan.9720 said:AreanaNet just lost a 13 year customer over their decision to fire her. Disciplinary action is one thing but firing was excessive. I will be deleting all my characters in both Gw2 and GW including my 13 year old Necromancer with FoW armor that has thousands of hours of play time logged. My single most used player character in any game ever. I was honestly so excited to return to my favorite game franchise with path of fire....but first they insult Jeremey Soule, then they screw over their lead dungeon designer, now they expect their female employees to politely tolerate sexism. As a kid I actually used to dream about working for ArenaNet as a developer. The prospect genuinely excited me for years, but now as I approach the end of my education I see we do no share values and I can not associate with your company in anyway.

Bye Felicia

[Voltekka.2375]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm doing wvw raids right now and the two people leading are female, are they womansplaining whenever we wipe? And believe me, it happens every week!If that sounds ridiculous to you, it's exactly what your explanation sounds to me. If you can freely skip the part where you actually show why this is sexist, let me do the same in this example. Yeah they're telling fellow raid guys what to do, so it HAS to do womansplaining, right?Yep. Completely fallacious.

Unless you can actually show that this "disagreement" would never happen if the dev was a guy, you can not demonstrate this "mansplaining" at all. Not you, nor all the people because you who tried in this thread and failed because of the obvious double standard.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm doing wvw raids right now and the two people leading are female, are they womansplaining whenever we wipe? And believe me, it happens every week!If that sounds ridiculous to you, it's exactly what your explanation sounds to me. If you can freely skip the part where you actually show why this is sexist, let me do the same in this example. Yeah they're telling fellow raid guys what to do, so it HAS to do womansplaining, right?Yep. Completely fallacious.

Unless you can actually show that this "disagreement" would never happen if the dev was a guy, you can not demonstrate this "mansplaining" at all. Not you, nor all the people because you who tried in this thread and failed because of the obvious double standard.

H-How DARE they tell fellow raid guys what to do! I am offended! My feelings, MY FEELINGS! You better apologize, send me all your gold and non account bound stuff

[cobbah.3102]

As the saying goes "sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you", why do people exist for social media words on a screen mean nothing , you do not know the person , the internet is full of trolls who thrive on putting nonsensical drivel everywhere even on the forums. Ignore the words. Move on or delete whichever platform hurts your sensibilities. If you go to these platforms be prepared for what comes

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm doing wvw raids right now and the two people leading are female, are they womansplaining whenever we wipe? And believe me, it happens every week!If that sounds ridiculous to you, it's exactly what your explanation sounds to me. If you can freely skip the part where you actually show why this is sexist, let me do the same in this example. Yeah they're telling fellow raid guys what to do, so it HAS to do womansplaining, right?Yep. Completely fallacious.

Unless you can actually show that this "disagreement" would never happen if the dev was a guy, you can not demonstrate this "mansplaining" at all. Not you, nor all the people because you who tried in this thread and failed because of the obvious double standard.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Batelle.1680 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:having a history of fighting back is not a problem. Being bigotted, xenophobic, misandric is. Being agressive, insulting and playing the victim card, when a member of the community and important customer just makes a suggestion is even more of a problem.

There is a difference between 'outspoken' and 'I don't like his suggestion. He is an evil mansplainer! And everybody who says otherwise is autoblocked'. There is also a difference between outspoken and 'I am glad X is dead'. Or 'I hate spaniards'.

I hope, you can see the difference. A lot of us can.

1. Misandry isn't a thing
2. She never said he was evil.
3. "Mainsplainer" as a term covers what he did perfectly- his suggestion to her, a professional game developer, was incredibly basic and common knowledge to the point where the content itself is insulting of her capabilities. Most people who get called "mansplainer" aren't being aggressively or even knowingly sexist- it's just a common byproduct of a society where a man's authority on a topic is intrinsically more valuable than a woman's. Pointing it out when it occurs isn't a call to action or even an attack, it's just...pointing it out, because it sucks to be on the receiving end of that kitten ever, but especially on a regular basis.

I'm doing wvw raids right now and the two people leading are female, are they womansplaining whenever we wipe? And believe me, it happens every week!If that sounds ridiculous to you, it's exactly what your explanation sounds to me. If you can freely skip the part where you actually show why this is sexist, let me do the same in this example. Yeah they're telling fellow raid guys what to do, so it HAS to do womansplaining, right?Yep. Completely fallacious.

Unless you can actually show that this "disagreement" would never happen if the dev was a guy, you can not demonstrate this "mansplaining" at all. Not you, nor all the people because you who tried in this thread and failed because of the obvious double standard.

H-How DARE they tell fellow raid guys what to do! I am offended! My feelings, MY FEELINGS! You better apologize, send me all your gold and non account bound stuff

Allow me, as a male voice of the void, explain to you how you play the game.(obviously a joke)

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@StonedCat.3518 said:Wow. As someone who’s played GuildWars since the beginning and poured well north of $1000 into various special editions and MT this is extremely disappointing. Firing two people over a Twitter spat is a pretty huge overreaction, especially when many of those baying for blood seem to be doing so in bad faith - claiming it’s about “respecting for the customer” while pushing what is effectively an anti-essjayw political agenda.

By capitulating so completely to pressure from this part of the GW community it appears as though ArenaNet has taken sides on the issue. And frankly, the side they chose is not one I agree with.

Finally, as someone who works in the software industry, seeing a 12 year veteran at ArenaNet get fired for being a little mean on the internet makes me think that ArenaNet doesn’t really care about their employees very much. And it certainly doesn’t have their back.ANet has had its share of controversies over the years that had them plastered all over the gaming media, front page reddit attention, and outrage all over the place by the metric ton. Those are not good times for the company. And now they're having another one, instigated by an employee no less, who was demonstrably in the wrong. No, they won't be having their backs.

[Wyvern.7951]

@Loli Ruri.8307 said:It's a human habit to focus on the negatives. It is also why the news tends to be bad news.

Yea it is. :( I understand that in the end we are all human and humans make mistakes. I support Anet's decision wholeheartedly and believe that letting go of Price was the right decision. I was really hoping JP would learn something out of this, but it would seem resentment still flows through her veins. It's a shame. Part of me wishes the 9 could outshine the 1. At least we can say that 9 out of 10 times, the devs see the good in their community. Maybe I'm just naive. All we can do is try our best to make up for that 1.

[tstske.3864]

There's a lot of talk about how women value feelings over facts, but it wasn't sjws who took up a 3 day crusade on reddit because their feelings were hurt. The comments were uncalled for, so was the community reaction. And now that two people are fired and there's even more of a PR disaster I don't think either side has won.

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-writers-fired-for-calling-out-fan-on-twitt-1827401422

You've really failled ArenaNet and GuildWars 2 by cowtowing to the internet mob that has unrealistic demands, Mr. O'Brien. Did Price say stupid shit? Yes. But by firing her and Fries (who's only crime was supporting a fellow co-worker), you've basically shown the gaming industry that developers should never listen nor communicate with their customers and consumers lest they want to be fired because, as the internet shows, the fringe mob overtakes the narrative and destroys faith people have in us gamers.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It's O.K. Nobody respects Kotaku anymore anyway.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

@Vidar the Feral.3850 said:I'm disappointed that you threw two of your developers under the bus for fear of bad PR. Is that the world we live in now that artists must live in constant terror of offending someone even when they are off duty and having a conversation in their own personal platform?

You do know they were wearing the Anet badge, and what they were doing was terrible? Unless you think sexism is a good thing.

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:Personally I'm still in disbelief that this has happened. Mostly because I've seen the opposite happen about a dozen times. Normally, when confronted about this behavior, they double down and the company they're a part of backs them fully. It is what happened with the comic book industry. It is what happened with journalism. It is what happened with most independent forums that I used to visit. It is what happened to most television shows I used to watch. It is what happened to Magic: The Gathering. It is what happened to countless videogame studios. It is what happened to social sciences. It is what happened to Canada. What do you mean "Canada isn't an industry"? Maple Syrup is a thing!

Anyway, the point being that way too many businesses put complete faith into far-left extremism, and it goes horribly. The businesses assume that all of these people preaching about microaggressions and the patriarchy know what they're talking about, and that everyone disagreeing with the message is proof of the message. GW2 appeared to be right on that track, with Arenanet being "An ideals driven company" and all that. I expected GW2 to give in and Get Woke, Go Broke eventually. When I said that the next LWS4 update would have Tiami go into a diatribe about mansplaining, I was serious. But when Mike dropped the hammer on JP hard, it restored my faith in the company.

The sad part is, I don't think JP is going to learn from this. "kitten always double down" is a phrase for a reason. She'll get snatched up by another game developer that values her stances, and she'll continue man-hating and mass blocking for eternity. Because the moral of this story can't possibly be "treat customers well," "not all adversity is sexism," "branching dialogue is a good thing," or "misandry is bad, too." The moral is "There's a massive conspiracy of alt-right extremist men secretly in control of the gaming industry, and we need to prune our customer base and refuse to serve them." How could it be anything else? But hey, I've been wrong before.

So when companies put complete faith into far-right extremism, it's alright, but when it's far-left it's a no-no. Thanks for being transparent showing us why the gaming industry is forever effed.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

@Ace Kenshader.1253 said:

@"Mike O Brien.4613" said:Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

Mo

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-writers-fired-for-calling-out-fan-on-twitt-1827401422

You've really failled ArenaNet and GuildWars 2 by cowtowing to the internet mob that has unrealistic demands, Mr. O'Brien. Did Price say stupid kitten? Yes. But by firing her and Fries (who's only crime was supporting a fellow co-worker), you've basically shown the gaming industry that developers should never listen nor communicate with their customers and consumers lest they want to be fired because, as the internet shows, the fringe mob overtakes the narrative and destroys faith people have in us gamers.Traditional Journalism is dead. Nobody takes them seriously, and we know that by game sales versus TradJrn. The marketing is in YouTube and Twitch now, not Kotaku, especially when they tarnished their own reputations with fake news and terrible game journalism. They are out of touch with the community or with the game industry. It's all become politics and who is on your Tribalism TM side..

[Zeivu.3615]

It's a shame to lose two members of the Guild Wars team. I have been a consumer since Guild Wars was in the middle of it's lifespan. From what I heard, JP had it coming for a long time. It's kind of shocking to hear about Fries. He was no saint in the situation, but I don't think throwing him out with the trash was okay. From a business perspective, I know it had to be done to protect the rest of the company. This world has gone mad and people are quick to demand blood for every little thing. So many people seek destruction of another's life over pathetic, petty, political or ideological differences. It's for that reason, I never put my current employer on any of my social accounts. It's the only thing we can do to save ourselves and the people we love.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

@Ace Kenshader.1253 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:Personally I'm still in disbelief that this has happened. Mostly because I've seen the opposite happen about a dozen times. Normally, when confronted about this behavior, they double down and the company they're a part of backs them fully. It is what happened with the comic book industry. It is what happened with journalism. It is what happened with most independent forums that I used to visit. It is what happened to most television shows I used to watch. It is what happened to Magic: The Gathering. It is what happened to countless videogame studios. It is what happened to social sciences. It is what happened to Canada. What do you mean "Canada isn't an industry"? Maple Syrup is a thing!

Anyway, the point being that way too many businesses put complete faith into far-left extremism, and it goes horribly. The businesses assume that all of these people preaching about microaggressions and the patriarchy know what they're talking about, and that everyone disagreeing with the message is proof of the message. GW2 appeared to be right on that track, with Arenanet being "An ideals driven company" and all that. I expected GW2 to give in and Get Woke, Go Broke eventually. When I said that the next LWS4 update would have Tiami go into a diatribe about mansplaining, I was serious. But when Mike dropped the hammer on JP hard, it restored my faith in the company.

The sad part is, I don't think JP is going to learn from this. "kitten always double down" is a phrase for a reason. She'll get snatched up by another game developer that values her stances, and she'll continue man-hating and mass blocking for eternity. Because the moral of this story can't possibly be "treat customers well," "not all adversity is sexism," "branching dialogue is a good thing," or "misandry is bad, too." The moral is "There's a massive conspiracy of alt-right extremist men secretly in control of the gaming industry, and we need to prune our customer base and refuse to serve them." How could it be anything else? But hey, I've been wrong before.

So when companies put complete faith into far-right extremism, it's alright, but when it's far-left it's a no-no. Thanks for being transparent showing us why the gaming industry is forever effed.So tell me, how many times must one stuff up before being fired?

Also apparently she did the same nonsense at her last job, which was the reason behind her being removed, from reading around.

[morrolan.9608]

@miraude.2107 said:

So it's perfectly acceptable for the community to be horrid right back? I don't give a crap if it's an alien that got fired we shouldn't be sending things like this

Not only this but now because I was trying to shine a light on the elements fanning the flames of this issue I'm now being personally targetted on reddit, thanks MOB this is a direct result of your actions.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@miraude.2107 said:

So it's perfectly acceptable for the community to be horrid right back? I don't give a crap if it's an alien that got fired we shouldn't be sending things like this

Not only this but now because I was trying to shine a light on the elements fanning the flames of this issue I'm now being personally targetted on reddit, thanks MOB this is a direct result of your actions.

The reality is, what is acceptable or not acceptable is decided by the majority, and only the minority in a dictatorship, or where you agreed to give the minority power. However since the game is the players playing it, and that the players are made up of many people from different walks of life, and most agree that JP was wrong, why do you think that is? Because we are a hive mind? No. Looking more based upon JP's actions. Why does it matter to Anet? Because the community is the game. Without players, you have nothing. This is one of the reasons traditional game journalism died, because they were out of touch with the community and the gamers.